With the recent discussion of Valve starting work on a Linux based version of Steam and their recent port of L4D2 to that OS I thought it might be time to start a Linux and Gaming thread. I'm just not sure if it should be here or in Tech Talk since the topic of tweaking and fixing will invariably pop up, especially with regard to WINE. Needs be, Mods feel free to move it over. I personally know next to nothing about how Linux and it's most popular noob-friendly distro, UBUNTU, work and I wouldn't even be messing around with it if not for the easy installers so I'm no help yet to anyone but here goes...
A few quick links for those interested:
UBUNTU (http://www.ubuntu.com/)
WINE (http://wiki.winehq.org/FrontPage)
Also, for those interested in UBUNTU you can order a disk from their site or make your own .iso and try it out w/out any actual changes to your system. Then, if you like, you can easily install as a dual boot with any Win version.
I've put off messing with it, which is odd for someone who was a PC tech for years... always just felt like I had better things to do with my free time. But lately I have a good amount of it. So...
How involved is loading it up for dual boot?
Approximately what percentage of your favorite games have you got working on it (relatively easily, anyway)? There's some emulator or something, right?
I've literally just started trying to figure out gaming on it so I don't have any successes yet. Hopefully Junk2drive will drop in here for a more seasoned bit of insight. AFA dual boot, by default Ubuntu sets itself to be the first to load but you can change that either with a terminal window (like a DOS Prompt, sorta) or you can D/L a small utility that lets you change your boot order as often as you wish. Ubuntu has a sort of 'app store' thingie called the Ubuntu Software Center where you can search for programs by category or name and then install them right away. The thing is crazy-full of all kinds of stuff, all free. In the latest version it's right in the quick launch bar on the desktop.
Maybe you could retitle this as ubuntu linux and gaming as that is the only distro that I have stuck with.
First, linux is the bones of the system and distro is the skin so to speak. Much like Windows 2000 and XP are both NT systems. Some distros are bare and lightweight to run on lesser or older hardware. They don't install much software. ubuntu is full flavored and installs a lot of things that you need on a daily basis like Windows does.
You don't do disc cleanup and defrag on linux. You do need to set your browser up to clean out files or delete them manually. You do need to manually delete old junk like downloads.
Some things are done with a GUI and some with the Terminal. The terminal is where you type in Command Line Instructions ( I think that is what the I is) or CLI. If you have ever done a DXDiag or regedit in Windows, with the little DOS window, you can do CLI in a terminal. Typing everthing properly can be a pain for people like me. Fortunately most helpers in the unbuntu forums will give you CLI in a box that you can copy and paste in a Terminal.
Most linux distros and software are open source and free.
Here is a list of native linux games that don't need anything to run. Some of them are free and very good.
http://www.lgdb.org/
Here is a new game company that has Windows, linux and Mac games sort of like Steam, again some are free, some are pay.
http://www.desura.com/
Wine is a windows compatibility layer. They like to say that wine stands for wine is not an emulator. A crew of programmers write dlls that work like windows dlls but are not copies of windows.
Winetricks is a program that works within wine to assist windows redistributable programs and files to work inside wine.
PlayOnLinux (POL) is a GUI for wine and winetricks that makes installing some games easier. It does the CLI for you.
Wine has a website
http://www.winehq.org/
and a database of games in the AppDB tab. Someone gets the game to work or not and posts the results to the DB. Some are old and inaccurate.
wine folks do not like you to post success or failure using winetricks or POL. They want success to be that someone with no knowledge can run a game installer in wine and it just works. That is the goal.
POL has its own list of games that work with POL. It is easy to install a game with POL that is not on the list. It then either works or it does not. If you search the forums all over the place, you may find a tip from someone that had success. After some time you may find yourself trying some things that you have learned and pass on that procedure to others.
Mac and linux use OpenGL for graphics. Windows uses MS DirectX. Most games are made with DirectX. If a game gets ported to Mac with OpenGL, you may have better luck with it in linux because of that.
A compromise on the title for future consideration ;)
BTW my current attempt to get CMAK (Combat Mission Afrika Corps) to run under PlayonLinux has failed. Some kind of dx thing? I'll pick it up again on Sunday given time and energy.
wine versions at this time are 1.4.something and 1.5.something. Even numbers are stable, finished, and odd numbers are still WIP. Sometimes a game works with an older version and breaks with a newer version of wine. This is called regression. POL allows you to run a game with a different version of wine. POL will install winetricks for you. If you read somewhere that a game worked with a winetrick, you can try your game again after telling POL to install the winetrick. A wine prefix is the bottle you have your wine in. It gets into more than I care for here. POL will create a prefix for you when you install a game.
Most windows installers will create a desktop shortcut for you. On unbuntu, it doesn't work. I drag them to the trash and delete them. POL will create a shortcut for you. You can then edit that shortcut and add a graphic like windows. You may have to convert the original to a png to work.
wine needs to be configured. POL can do that too and each game can have its own setup. Sometimes you may want to run a full screen game in a window. wine fakes a windows desktop if you want. You tell it the size and the game will run full screen within that fake desktop.
The current version of ubuntu is 12.04 LTS. 12 is the year 2012, 04 is the month April and LTS is long term support. It will remain somewhat unchanged for 5 years. This is to offer stability to businesses and programmers. It will be updated quarterly plus any security issues. Newer versions are done every 6 months but you do not have to upgrade until end of life. You can have geeky fun by joining the alpha/beta process of the new builds and install it on a non important computer to help find what is broken.
Software is available through the ubuntu Software Center, or through Synaptic. Software comes from repositories. Some things are not listed in the Software center but are in Synaptic. Some software requires other software to work. These are called dependencies. Most of the time these will be suggested to be installed along with your software and not break anything.
The first thing that I install in ubuntu is the ubuntu restricted extras. These are redistributable items that are not allowed to be included in a program.
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 02, 2012, 09:20:52 PM
A compromise on the title for future consideration ;)
BTW my current attempt to get CMAK (Combat Mission Afrika Corps) to run under PlayonLinux has failed. Some kind of dx thing? I'll pick it up again on Sunday given time and energy.
I don't think there has been any success running CM titles in wine. I think Redwolf had CMBB running but very slow and not worth playing. He hangs around gamesquad forums and BFC somewhat.
Dual Boot with Windows
Windows needs to be installed first. The ubuntu installer is downloaded as an iso. That is written to a CD or DVD as a data file. InfraRecorder is the preferred freeware for creating this. You can also make a USB stick work but read how at the ubuntu wiki or forums.
After making your CD, boot the computer and set your bios to boot from CD if not already set up. This will load the CD and you have what is known as a live CD. You can do a few things with it. Try ubuntu before you install it. Partition your harddrive. Go on Firefox to beg for help when things go wrong.
linux does not use letter locations. They use / and /home and such. You can set swap space like windows virtual memory but most don't need to. Best bet is to read up on installing before you start.
Removing ubuntu and going back to windows only is a pain but doable.
Last bit about dual booting. I can spend 10 minutes reading silliness on a forum but can't stand the 2 minutes it takes to shut down one and start the other. I usually stay in XP or ubuntu until I really need to switch. XP works so it's not like I have to be in ubuntu. ubuntu is just so much faster for me.
ubuntu has a main website with links to the forums and wikis. Ask ubuntu has lots of stuff. Click on Questions and then FAQ to find starter stuff like usb install and how to set up partitions for your new install.
http://askubuntu.com/
At this time linux does not need a firewall or anti virus program. The firewall is built in and you don't see it. Trojans and virus normally cannot work in linux as programs cannot run by themselves. However things change so who knows?
Thanks for all your input. Linux gaming may turn out to be a biggie or a bust but it's best if we are informed along the way.
Thanks for the rundown. That was informative.
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 02, 2012, 10:20:22 PM
Thanks for all your input. Linux gaming may turn out to be a biggie or a bust but it's best if we are informed along the way.
I really think that Linux is going to go places and, loathe though I am to admit it, it's thanks to Valve.
Anyway, as a long-time Linux/Windows dual-booter I heartily endorse everything Junk2Drive has said. Don't be afraid to try Linux, especially a live distro which lets you give it a good test before it even touches your hard drive. Dual booting is easy and you get used to it in no time. In fact, if you choose Ubuntu you can even install it
inside Windows - don't ask me how it works because I dunno. But if you do it that way, it's even easier to get rid of later if you don't like it. Check out Wubi. (http://wubi.sourceforge.net/)
P.S. CLI = Command Line
Interface. In Linux this is usually a shell called
bash, which you might see referenced on forums. Basically, CLI = terminal = console = shell = bash. As far as giving instructions, they're all the same.
Quote from: junk2drive on August 02, 2012, 09:43:46 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 02, 2012, 09:20:52 PM
A compromise on the title for future consideration ;)
BTW my current attempt to get CMAK (Combat Mission Afrika Corps) to run under PlayonLinux has failed. Some kind of dx thing? I'll pick it up again on Sunday given time and energy.
I don't think there has been any success running CM titles in wine. I think Redwolf had CMBB running but very slow and not worth playing. He hangs around gamesquad forums and BFC somewhat.
Suspect a 3d title like CMAK would require hardware acceleration support from the video card. I recall that driver support for this type of fuctionality was lacking in the past due to reluctance on the part of hardware companies to release their IP into the linux ecosystem. Not sure where things stand these days.
Just so happens that I have about 20 or 30 GB that I set aside in another partition, last time I reinstalled Windows, in case I decided to dual boot Win7 and WinXP. Thus far I've not needed to bother doing the reversed install of XP after a newer OS so when I eventually feel like spending time to mess with it, it should be pretty painless.
Back in 2009 I had a problem with my XP install after a Windows update failed. I feared a repair/reinstall. A coworker suggested ubuntu as that was what he used. For free why not. So 09.04 became my daily OS. I read the forums every day and searched for answers. It became a hobby as much as playing games. Eventually I needed XP for games and reinstalled, SP1, SP2, SP3, and on and on...
Later on I tried a newer version, it didn't like my ATI card and would not work. Since XP worked and I needed it for games that I was beta testing, I gave up on linux. I took another look in mid 2011 when I built this computer with a 500g SATA drive. XP SP0 doesn't know what a SATA drive is. I had to search for what I needed and make an install disc from the XP iso and the SATA files. I really got pissed when I found that XP can only use 3.2g of my 4g of RAM! I never filled my old 80g HDD so 500g is a lot of empty space for me to try anything. I started with the RC1 beta of 11.10 and followed that to official release. Then I added beta 1 of 12.04 on another partition.
Currently ATI drivers are working well for me. Nvidia owners are having problems. This seems to go back and forth over time. With Valve working with nvidia I expect that to change quickly.
I've been trying to figure out how to dual boot my MacBook Pro for months now but met with no luck. Seems like these newer Macs will only allow you to dual boot windows which I refuse to do. Hence my PC gaming activity has died down considerably.
W8 is supposed to be the same way, no dual boot.
^Meaning I can run Lion and Ubuntu at the same time?
I did a forum search for macbook and found this thread for triple booting
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1908210&highlight=macbook
There is a forum just for Mac users as well
Wow that is a good find. I tried using rEFIT like the user mentioned but not in the fashion he specifies. He's doing a triple boot which I won't be doing since I don't own Windows 7 but the process he outlines for installing Ubuntu is a lot different from what I've come across. This is worth a try, much thanks kind sir!
Glad to help.
Anyone with an Android device is already using linux. There is a group working on an Android version for x86 boxes as well. I imagine that would allow you to run your Android apps on your PC after getting them on your device. I wouldn't mind getting the Combat Mission game for $5 if I could run it on my PC.
Many, many years ago I played around with Linux in a three way boot environment: DOS/Win3, OS/2, and Linux. It was mainly to learn UNIX for work. For some reason the Operations Department didn't want to give me ROOT access on our UNIX boxes so that I could learn. Being in charge of Database/Data Warehousing, I really thought I needed that depth of knowledge as we migrated from VAX/VMS. So, I created my own UNIX box with Linux.
I was impressed with how much performance Linux delivered for so little hardware.
However, I never thought much of it for gaming as Windows is the biggest gaming platform. Also, I've always been concerned about security. I believe Linux is intrinsically more secure than Windows, but if you don't know what you are doing when installing/managing a networking O/S, then you can really compromise security. I understand Windows security inside and out, but know hardly anything about Linux and security.
Quote from: Nefaro on August 03, 2012, 02:32:55 AM
Just so happens that I have about 20 or 30 GB that I set aside in another partition, last time I reinstalled Windows, in case I decided to dual boot Win7 and WinXP. Thus far I've not needed to bother doing the reversed install of XP after a newer OS so when I eventually feel like spending time to mess with it, it should be pretty painless.
Depending on what you're planning to do with Linux, that 20-30GB may not be enough. I've seen some modern distros use up in excess of 10GB with a clean install. Of course, lots of them will use less space, and there's nothing stopping you pruning it yourself post-install by removing software you'll never use etc.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 03, 2012, 12:34:05 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on August 03, 2012, 02:32:55 AM
Just so happens that I have about 20 or 30 GB that I set aside in another partition, last time I reinstalled Windows, in case I decided to dual boot Win7 and WinXP. Thus far I've not needed to bother doing the reversed install of XP after a newer OS so when I eventually feel like spending time to mess with it, it should be pretty painless.
Depending on what you're planning to do with Linux, that 20-30GB may not be enough. I've seen some modern distros use up in excess of 10GB with a clean install. Of course, lots of them will use less space, and there's nothing stopping you pruning it yourself post-install by removing software you'll never use etc.
Yeah, I never intended for that small partition to hold a lot of programs & such. In this case, it would just be there for toying with Ubuntu some, if I load it up.
Here is a 5 minute video from an OEM that uses ubuntu, an overview of the OS and software. With a chick!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzFm2tmmhGc&feature=plcp
Things to do after you install ubuntu 12.04, some are necessary, some are meh
http://www.tuxgarage.com/2012/04/things-to-do-after-installing-precise.html
Nifty GUI for changing things
http://www.tuxgarage.com/2012/04/ubuntu-tweak-0-7-released.html
Well I have managed to bork both of my ubuntu installs. I have no UI. No help from the forums. I suspect it is something I did with a program, ubuntu tweaks. I will reinstall this weekend...
The latest Humble Indie Bundle contains 6 games with linux native ports. From a linux gaming site:
QuotePlay on Windows, Mac*, and Linux* (system requirements here). Note that this is the debut for all of the Linux versions of the games. Please be patient while the developers fix any 1.0 bugs as quickly as they can, and don't hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues. *Please note that the finishing touches for Vessel's Mac and Linux debut are still being completed and should be ready in 24-72 hours.
Also of note is that FTL has a native linux version available at the dev's site.
If you are a fan of RPGs like Diablo, Flare is free and now available on Desura for linux, Mac and Windows.
http://flarerpg.org/
Creepy character portraits!