Today is Israel's General Elections, if it interests anyone here (aside from myself).
The day that determines whether we're stuck with Netanyahu as the Prime Minister (or Crime Minister as we love calling him) for a while longer or get someone to finally replace him.
Quote from: Tpek on April 09, 2019, 06:15:16 AM
or Crime Minister as we love calling him
Witch hunt, hoax, fake news, ... >:D
The same people in power for to long is almost never a good thing.
But even when he loses he still is more likely to get a coalition with some of the small parties than Gantz.
Quote from: Tpek on April 09, 2019, 06:15:16 AM
Today is Israel's General Elections, if it interests anyone here (aside from myself).
The day that determines whether we're stuck with Netanyahu as the Prime Minister (or Crime Minister as we love calling him) for a while longer or get someone to finally replace him.
Don't the majority of Israelis, despite the corruption allegations, approve of his performance as PM? It is not like he is the first Israeli PM to be accused of corruption. Perhaps Israel would do better with someone who isn't a patriotic war hero dedicated to Israel's national security and booming economy?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 09, 2019, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: Tpek on April 09, 2019, 06:15:16 AM
Today is Israel's General Elections, if it interests anyone here (aside from myself).
The day that determines whether we're stuck with Netanyahu as the Prime Minister (or Crime Minister as we love calling him) for a while longer or get someone to finally replace him.
Don't the majority of Israelis, despite the corruption allegations, approve of his performance as PM? It is not like he is the first Israeli PM to be accused of corruption. Perhaps Israel would do better with someone who isn't a patriotic war hero dedicated to Israel's national security and booming economy?
Netanyahu isn't patriotic, a war hero, and is in no way dedicated to anything but himself and his family.
I mean for pete's sake, some of the allegations against him (with a lot of evidence, proof, testimonies and witnesses) are of major crimes against national security and outright treason.
As for the majority, he does have a very large group of supporters, but far from the majority, and there's a chance he'll lose the elections (even through he's been cheating and breaking every rule and law regarding them).
Quote from: Tpek on April 09, 2019, 10:20:42 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 09, 2019, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: Tpek on April 09, 2019, 06:15:16 AM
Today is Israel's General Elections, if it interests anyone here (aside from myself).
The day that determines whether we're stuck with Netanyahu as the Prime Minister (or Crime Minister as we love calling him) for a while longer or get someone to finally replace him.
Don't the majority of Israelis, despite the corruption allegations, approve of his performance as PM? It is not like he is the first Israeli PM to be accused of corruption. Perhaps Israel would do better with someone who isn't a patriotic war hero dedicated to Israel's national security and booming economy?
Netanyahu isn't patriotic, a war hero, and is in no way dedicated to anything but himself and his family.
I mean for pete's sake, some of the allegations against him (with a lot of evidence, proof, testimonies and witnesses) are of major crimes against national security and outright treason.
As for the majority, he does have a very large group of supporters, but far from the majority, and there's a chance he'll lose the elections (even through he's been cheating and breaking every rule and law regarding them).
I'm quite taken aback, and think it takes some nerve for you to discredit his military service to the nation of Israel and your willingness to do so clearly shows a strong political bias.
For six years prior to 1967, Netanyahu resided in the US where he was attending high school. He did not need to return to Israel, but he did so anyway in order to enlist in the IDF where he trained as a combat soldier and served for five years in Sayeret Matkal. He took part in numerous cross-border assault raids during the 1967–70 War of Attrition, rising to become a team-leader in the unit. He was wounded in combat on multiple occasions and was involved in many other missions, including Operation Inferno (1968), and the rescue of the hijacked Sabena Flight 571 in May 1972 in which he was shot in the shoulder.
All that and you deny he is a hero? Putting aside the allegations of corruption, and even in Israel there is a presumption of innocence, why deny his past courage and sacrifice? The question is rhetorical...I know the answer.
I'm a 'Benni' fan too. And not just because I can't spell his last name. I think he's been good for Isreal and her relationship with the U.S. It may be time for new leadership but I don't think you can consider it better leadership just because it is new. My 2 cents.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 09, 2019, 10:50:13 AM
For six years prior to 1967, Netanyahu resided in the US where he was attending high school. He did not need to return to Israel, but he did so anyway in order to enlist in the IDF where he trained as a combat soldier and served for five years in Sayeret Matkal. He took part in numerous cross-border assault raids during the 1967–70 War of Attrition, rising to become a team-leader in the unit. He was wounded in combat on multiple occasions and was involved in many other missions, including Operation Inferno (1968), and the rescue of the hijacked Sabena Flight 571 in May 1972 in which he was shot in the shoulder.
According to multiple sources (people who served with him), he was never wounded in combat and never participated in any daring rescue. During his time at the commando unit, he was more of a reckless troublemaker that even at some point started blowing up parked civilian jetcraft at a Lebanese airport for fun.
The "Shot in the shoulder" thing was after the Sabena rescue when he finally arrived at the scene to get into the pictures (for the credit), and some gun-safety problem caused someone to to discharge a bullet that passed him by and did nothing more than spook him for a second.
There are no records of him receiving proper commendations/medals, and it seems the only reason he got into that elite unit is because of his late brother, who is actually a national hero (he died in combat during the daring raid on the Entebe airport in Uganda to free the hostages).
And the biggest insult of all, is how Netanyahu treats actual combat veterans and fallen soldiers, making fun of and belittling their heroics.
And Bias? As someone who had to live under his regime for decades, see all the corruption and crimes he commits, see the despicable and illegitimate ways to gain power, and see how godawful he is at managing the nation (there's barely a single major thing that he hasn't turned into a complete disaster), how he constantly attacks and tries to silence the media (who only do their job of reporting what is going on) and his never ending lies, yes, I have a bias against him and I'll be happy to see him go. Jail or no jail, I just want this country to get back on track into being a proper first world democracy rather than the third world banana republic he's turning us into.
Quote from: Tpek on April 09, 2019, 02:07:18 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 09, 2019, 10:50:13 AM
For six years prior to 1967, Netanyahu resided in the US where he was attending high school. He did not need to return to Israel, but he did so anyway in order to enlist in the IDF where he trained as a combat soldier and served for five years in Sayeret Matkal. He took part in numerous cross-border assault raids during the 1967–70 War of Attrition, rising to become a team-leader in the unit. He was wounded in combat on multiple occasions and was involved in many other missions, including Operation Inferno (1968), and the rescue of the hijacked Sabena Flight 571 in May 1972 in which he was shot in the shoulder.
According to multiple sources (people who served with him), he was never wounded in combat and never participated in any daring rescue. During his time at the commando unit, he was more of a reckless troublemaker that even at some point started blowing up parked civilian jetcraft at a Lebanese airport for fun.
The "Shot in the shoulder" thing was after the Sabena rescue when he finally arrived at the scene to get into the pictures (for the credit), and some gun-safety problem caused someone to to discharge a bullet that passed him by and did nothing more than spook him for a second.
There are no records of him receiving proper commendations/medals, and it seems the only reason he got into that elite unit is because of his late brother, who is actually a national hero (he died in combat during the daring raid on the Entebe airport in Uganda to free the hostages).
And the biggest insult of all, is how Netanyahu treats actual combat veterans and fallen soldiers, making fun of and belittling their heroics.
And Bias? As someone who had to live under his regime for decades, see all the corruption and crimes he commits, see the despicable and illegitimate ways to gain power, and see how godawful he is at managing the nation (there's barely a single major thing that he hasn't turned into a complete disaster), how he constantly attacks and tries to silence the media (who only do their job of reporting what is going on) and his never ending lies, yes, I have a bias against him and I'll be happy to see him go. Jail or no jail, I just want this country to get back on track into being a proper first world democracy rather than the third world banana republic he's turning us into.
Other than some general political attacks and claims made by his challenger, I can not find a single source on the internet verifying a single one of your claims. i cannot find a single independent source verifying any one of your allegations, or any account of his service that describes it as anything other than distinguished. I'll be happy to review any legitimate source you have access to.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 09, 2019, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Tpek on April 09, 2019, 02:07:18 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 09, 2019, 10:50:13 AM
For six years prior to 1967, Netanyahu resided in the US where he was attending high school. He did not need to return to Israel, but he did so anyway in order to enlist in the IDF where he trained as a combat soldier and served for five years in Sayeret Matkal. He took part in numerous cross-border assault raids during the 1967–70 War of Attrition, rising to become a team-leader in the unit. He was wounded in combat on multiple occasions and was involved in many other missions, including Operation Inferno (1968), and the rescue of the hijacked Sabena Flight 571 in May 1972 in which he was shot in the shoulder.
According to multiple sources (people who served with him), he was never wounded in combat and never participated in any daring rescue. During his time at the commando unit, he was more of a reckless troublemaker that even at some point started blowing up parked civilian jetcraft at a Lebanese airport for fun.
The "Shot in the shoulder" thing was after the Sabena rescue when he finally arrived at the scene to get into the pictures (for the credit), and some gun-safety problem caused someone to to discharge a bullet that passed him by and did nothing more than spook him for a second.
There are no records of him receiving proper commendations/medals, and it seems the only reason he got into that elite unit is because of his late brother, who is actually a national hero (he died in combat during the daring raid on the Entebe airport in Uganda to free the hostages).
And the biggest insult of all, is how Netanyahu treats actual combat veterans and fallen soldiers, making fun of and belittling their heroics.
And Bias? As someone who had to live under his regime for decades, see all the corruption and crimes he commits, see the despicable and illegitimate ways to gain power, and see how godawful he is at managing the nation (there's barely a single major thing that he hasn't turned into a complete disaster), how he constantly attacks and tries to silence the media (who only do their job of reporting what is going on) and his never ending lies, yes, I have a bias against him and I'll be happy to see him go. Jail or no jail, I just want this country to get back on track into being a proper first world democracy rather than the third world banana republic he's turning us into.
Other than some general political attacks and claims made by his challenger, I can not find a single source on the internet verifying a single one of your claims. i cannot find a single independent source verifying any one of your allegations, or any account of his service that describes it as anything other than distinguished. I'll be happy to review any legitimate source you have access to.
There are plenty if you can read Hebrew.
So far it's a pretty tight race between Netanyahu and Gantz, it seems they might have to form what we call a unity government.
I called him, 'Benni'. #:-) It's, 'Bebe' Slash.
So...sounds like he won.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-47876539
PM Benjamin Netanyahu is likely to secure a record fifth term after almost complete results from Israel's election suggest a new right-wing coalition.
His Likud party is expected to finish with a similar number of seats as ex-military chief Benny Gantz's centrist Blue and White alliance.
But Likud and right-wing allies are set to be the largest bloc with 65 seats in the 120-seat Knesset, local media said.
Very close results.
:hide:
Yep, Netanyahu so far seems to have won.
@SirSlash, Netanyahu's nickname is Bibi (no joke), Benny is actually what Gantz goes by :P
That's where I heard the, 'Benny' part from. Thanks for fixing that for me.
I don't keep up with Israeli politics but I read much of the foreign events/policy pages of the Wall St. Journal.
The WSJ's take was that the Israeli public decided that the Palestinian's would not take "yes" for an answer on a peace deal. As a result the voting support for the Labor Party collapsed and they have become a minor party despite having held the Prime Minister's position a number of times. Two different parties, Likud and Benny Gantz's party dominated the voting and both had similar foreign policy views. Labor has also been hurt over time because the birth rate of less religious families has been lower than that of more Orthodox families and over time their voter pool has shrunk.
Is this largely accurate? I'm not terribly interested in how Israel runs their domestic economy but their Foreign Policy impacts the USA. And it seems for now according to the WSJ that Israeli voters changed their foreign policy preferences.
I was there 10 years ago and the concern then amongst older Israelis was that the younger, secular population was growing too fast and losing touch with their past History and Religious Customs. Also, the domestic Arab population was growing fast as well.
@airboy, The whole situation is pretty complex, and even a lot of the greatest local experts have hard time fully explaining it.
@SirSlash, The actual problem was the (orthodox) religious population growing too fast and getting considerably more powerful. This is bringing a lot of changes to the demographics, the politics and causing ever increasing friction between the secular (and lightly religious) population and the heavily religious one.
And we're going for re-elections, due September 17th.
Why not? The first time was so much fun. <:-)
2 days to the re-elections.
And I've just had it with all that political propaganda spam that goes around (just with SMS, I'm receiving over 20 a day). :tickedoff:
Round Three is tomorrow.
Still don't know when Round Four will take place :buck2:
I've read that Bibi was within 2 seats of an absolute majority. So this time can he form a government and you can avoid national elections for 12 months?
The system they have is terrible
@Airboy, Netanyahu has the support of only 58 (out of 120) MPs. He's actually losing the election again.
@demjansk1942, It's not perfect but I prefer it by far to the American one.
Seems like we'll be getting a fourth attempt at elections soon. Hopefully this time the situation will be different seeing as Netanyahu's trials begin in less than 2 weeks.
Today I read that the Blue & White Party and the Arab Party (exact name escapes me) want to have a law that if a Prime Minister candidate is under indightment they cannot form a government. This is aimed at Netanyahu - and dislike of him seems to be the only real unifying factor of the Blue & White Party.
I'm sure it is more complex that this. Parliamentary systems often seem to lead to chaos. How many governments has Italy had since 1946? The US system to select a President at least gives you a pretty clear winner or boils the dispute down to a single State. Unfortunately, the left in the US wants to scrap the electoral college & the Senate so our elections can be as chaotic as much of the rest of the West.
Wow. I want to be in the election business. Printing companies must make a fortune.
Quote from: airboy on March 04, 2020, 11:02:18 PM
Today I read that the Blue & White Party and the Arab Party (exact name escapes me) want to have a law that if a Prime Minister candidate is under indightment they cannot form a government. This is aimed at Netanyahu - and dislike of him seems to be the only real unifying factor of the Blue & White Party.
I'm sure it is more complex that this. Parliamentary systems often seem to lead to chaos. How many governments has Italy had since 1946? The US system to select a President at least gives you a pretty clear winner or boils the dispute down to a single State. Unfortunately, the left in the US wants to scrap the electoral college & the Senate so our elections can be as chaotic as much of the rest of the West.
There's a very good reason many people dislike Netanyahu.
Mind you, Netanyahu himself promoted the same law when he was in the opposition and tried to oust a democratically elected PM.
The U.S enjoys a far more stable government than parliamentary democracies, but the cost of which is inevitably it is also less democratic.
There is always a compromise between how stable and how democratic a system is, and different people have different preferences.
^ Fair observation. The USA is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
Quote from: airboy on March 05, 2020, 05:21:25 PM
^ Fair observation. The USA is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
Which is a form of democracy. ::)
Not really. There is a difference between a republic and a democracy.
I though the US was a constitutional democratic republic.
Looks as if there will be a fourth election coming.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-president-rejects-bid-government
Quote from: Labbug on April 12, 2020, 08:00:55 PM
Looks as if there will be a fourth election coming.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-president-rejects-bid-government
I'm all so giddy about it... :buck2: