Some recent forum discussions together with my own gaming activity lately has led me to this post. Let's use this space to talk about really old, but really fantastic games that still hold up and are enjoyable to play today. I'm talking about really old gems, most of which are not available on GoG and require Dosbox or some major tweaking to run on modern systems.
A perfect example is the game Toonces is playing now, Carrier Strike. Other examples are some games I'm playing, Rules of Engagement and the Star Fleet series, which includes Star Fleet I: The War Begins, Star Fleet II: Krellan Commander, and Star Legion. These are all extremely rich and rewarding titles, that have no peer in the modern gaming age, but which are REALLY old...archaic graphics, minimal sound, UIs from the dawn of time, etc.
So I'm still collecting my thoughts on these games and will post more about them when I can, but I figure I'd start this thread to get your old game juices flowing.
I still regularly play Combat Mission x1 series... Steel Panthers gets some good play time from me as well.
Would really love to see an Age of Rifles remake.
Aces of the Pacific / Europe... I'm hoping Task Force Admiral will supplant the former. :D
I wish I still had Kampfgruppe and Mech Brigade.
Quote from: solops on May 31, 2020, 01:05:18 PM
I wish I still had Kampfgruppe and Mech Brigade.
Your wish is my command.
https://www.myabandonware.com/game/kampfgruppe-bd (https://www.myabandonware.com/game/kampfgruppe-bd)
https://www.myabandonware.com/game/mech-brigade-bt (https://www.myabandonware.com/game/mech-brigade-bt)
I really enjoyed playing Aces of the Deep back in the mid 90's although I could never get my mike to work consistently as it had the option for voice commands.
I played all versions of Star Fleet Battles to death.
Aces of the Pacific/Europe were my first flight sims. I believe they were on floppy discs and I think that I still have them.
I continuted playing Grigsby's USAAF game on my Atari 800 for about 20 years after it was released. I only wish Grigsby had created something somewhere between the great but limited gameplay of USAAF and the incredibly detailed and impossible to finish Bombing the Reich.
Imperialism 2
I've been lucky to find many of my old favorites on GOG (Master of Orion, Fields of Glory, Caesar 2, Indiana Jones and Atlantis) or even on steam (Task Force: 1942). Also have to say that i got my first pc pretty late (1993) when i was already 22.
Here are some games you won't find on GOG:
Robert E. Lee: Civil War which i haven't been able to run since Windows 98 :(.
and it's sequel: Civil War 2: Generals for which i keep a computer running on XP: While very similar, you can choose which day of the battle of Gettysburg you want to fight.
Some other rare games i keep on checking:
Far Gate: a unique space game with an amazing soundtrack.
Waterloo: Napoleon's last battle and Austerliz: Napoleon's greatest victory
The first Warlords, pretty much all Ocean's work, HotRod and HotRod 2 and the Commander Keen games were absolute favorites of mine.
As well as the 'Strike' series on the Sega Megadrive (Desert Strike, Jungle Strike, Urban Strike, etc)
And Walls of Rome was a game I put in tons of hours!
Ok, guys...but are you still playing them today and do they hold up? That is really what I'm looking to talk about in is thread. Really old games that may no longer be sold at retail or supported on modern systems, but are worth seeking out and running through dosbox because no matter how dated they may look, they are just that good. This isn't just another nostalgia thread. We have so many great memories of old games and have been disappointed so often when revisiting them when released on Gog or steam. However, some of them are so good that they are still worth playing today and do not disappoint from how we remember them.
If you actively play any of these games, which ones and what makes them worth going through the trouble to run so many decades after their day?
Not sure if this fits the criteria per se, but Starfleet Command - or more specifically the Orion Pirates version - has remained on my computers in one form or another over the years.
Love that it's based off of the Starfleet Battles boardgame and that it takes and captures the ebb and flow of that game but in a delicious visual format.
I'm a Star Trek fan for forever and to see the ships and the milieu I've grown up with still makes this old man giggle.
Now does it/would it fare well today? I don't know, to be honest. It's a niche game based off a niche game that can be "fiddly," in ways that may not be others' idea of fun. Also, I'd say the graphics aren't that hot compared to today's offerings, but that is to be expected for something damn near thirteen or more years old at this point. And I've no idea of the mulitplayer aspect of the game as that never was something I cared about with this title.
p.s. I know that GOG and Steam have Starfleet Command available, but if you skip on over to Dynaverse.net, they've got a store where you can get legit copies of SC 2, and SC 2 Orion Pirates, plus the people there have been attentive to this game for years, so plenty of mods and whatnot to play with. I like the ship refit stuff as I can have my round nacelled Federation ships as God intended.
Quote from: Queeg on May 31, 2020, 06:30:19 PM
Imperialism 2
Still actively playing this one. And the graphics hold up fairly well. Only the animations of the units in battle suck.
Quote from: bobarossa on June 01, 2020, 10:00:15 AM
Quote from: Queeg on May 31, 2020, 06:30:19 PM
Imperialism 2
Still actively playing this one. And the graphics hold up fairly well. Only the animations of the units in battle suck.
+1 great game, still on HD...still played
I actively play Tanks & Age of Rifles. They're my handy "filler" games if I have 30 mins to 2 hours to kill - both very intuitive yet reasonably deep, so can be picked up & played even after a long absence. Same with Carriers at War - pretty much the same as the new Matrix incarnation but with crude graphics.
If I want a little more of a challenge with an old game I also play the V for Victory series - this was well advanced for its time, with quite subtle combat mechanics, day & night turns, separate artillery & air components that you could give over to the AI, morale/fatigue, plus different move, attack & defence postures - this was the first wargame I played that felt it had a good enough level of detail to qualify as a simulation rather than just a game.
Would also agree with Aguille's choice of Waterloo & Austerlitz - later games, but pre-cursors to Scourge of War & Second Manassas.
Quote from: ArizonaTank on June 01, 2020, 01:10:28 PM
Quote from: bobarossa on June 01, 2020, 10:00:15 AM
Quote from: Queeg on May 31, 2020, 06:30:19 PM
Imperialism 2
Still actively playing this one. And the graphics hold up fairly well. Only the animations of the units in battle suck.
+1 great game, still on HD...still played
Imperialism 2 has been on every PC I've owned since it came out. I think it still ranks among the top historical strategy games ever made.
The game is challenging in the sense that you never can do everything you want to do; you are constantly faced with conflicting decisions. I have all these great New World colonies I want to develop - but I need to develop my Old World infrastructure and labor force to a make the resources I need to develop my colonies - but I need New World resources to make my labor force happy and efficient - but I need some of that same labor force to train into soldiers to protect my colonies - or, better yet, to conquer other territories that could make even more great New World colonies I want to develop. You are constantly short of something and having to adjust priorities.
But - and here's the difference from so many modern games - you always know exactly what you need to do to fix whatever problem you're trying to fix. It's the doing of it, among all the other conflicting priorities, that presents the challenge - but you're never never left to wonder how the game works. And the feedback is clear and immediately useful - if I need 1 coal, then I figure out how to adjust things to get 1 coal, and I get 1 coal.
Compare to virtually every Paradox game, where the formula is more like invest in this one thing that gives a .05% increase in this other thing that has a .05% impact on this third thing that has an .05% influence on the production of coal. When I browse the Paradox forums, I'm always amazed at the high percentage of posts that are just people trying to figure out the most basic rules of the game - often for games that have been out for many years. Yes, the Paradox games (and other modern games) are complex, but it's too often complexity through obscurity.
Imperialism 2 excels at being, first and foremost, a game.
Defending the Reich from HPS Sims, War in the Pacific: AE from Matrix, and PT Boats: Knights of the Sea from Akella.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 01, 2020, 06:33:11 AM
Ok, guys...but are you still playing them today and do they hold up? That is really what I'm looking to talk about in is thread. Really old games that may no longer be sold at retail or supported on modern systems, but are worth seeking out and running through dosbox because no matter how dated they may look, they are just that good. This isn't just another nostalgia thread. We have so many great memories of old games and have been disappointed so often when revisiting them when released on Gog or steam. However, some of them are so good that they are still worth playing today and do not disappoint from how we remember them.
If you actively play any of these games, which ones and what makes them worth going through the trouble to run so many decades after their day?
One game i mentionned that stands out for me is
Civil War 2: Generals. The game has a huge number of battles and campaigns. To me, this is still the best game on the Civil War ever done. Music is great and you even have the nights during two days of battles. An amazing game.
Also
Caesar II is the only city-builder with a province map and a complete battle engine. The city builder part got old but it's still an impressive game. No other game has been as well a city-buidler and a strategy game.
I've been playing Heavy Gear 2 over the last few days. It was difficult to get running well, but not to the point where I considered throwing in the towel.
The game is still fantastic and just as awesome as I remember it. Of course, the graphics aren't as good as they once were, but the tactical combat is exceptional. Gears that can kneel, and go prone, a wide variety of weapons to choose from and terrains that matter, including zero-g! Decent squad AI, fire support, active and passive sensors, stealth mechanics, low light environments, etc. The list goes on and on.
They just don't make them like this anymore, but this is one of those titles that is so good, that its worth running today.
Not many at all for me. Yet once a year I reload and play Might and Magic 6: Mandate from Heaven, one of my all-time favorite RPG's.
Quote from: Yskonyn on June 01, 2020, 06:14:27 AM
The first Warlords, pretty much all Ocean's work, HotRod and HotRod 2 and the Commander Keen games were absolute favorites of mine.
As well as the 'Strike' series on the Sega Megadrive (Desert Strike, Jungle Strike, Urban Strike, etc)
And Walls of Rome was a game I put in tons of hours!
Oh man, Warlords III Dark Lords Rising. A total pain in the butt to install, but when it works it is oh so good.
I downloaded Carriers at War Complete, Bravo Romeo Delta, and M1 Tank Platoon 2. I couldn't get M1 to run.
CAWC looks pretty good. Yeah, the graphics are rough but there are a lot of interesting scenarios and it looks like it might be a bit more interesting than the Matrix CAW which for some reason has never quite grabbed me.
Haven't tried Bravo, yet, but I know you're a fan JH. It sounds interesting; I'm curious if I can get over the graphics.
Quote from: Toonces on June 01, 2020, 07:00:12 PM
Haven't tried Bravo, yet, but I know you're a fan JH. It sounds interesting; I'm curious if I can get over the graphics.
I'm intrigued by it. Never played anything like it before. Try to learn it and run through at least 2 or 3 full games before casting any judgment.
I never, ever "won" a game of Bravo Romeo Delta.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on June 01, 2020, 10:37:46 PM
I never, ever "won" a game of Bravo Romeo Delta.
I legit "won" once.
I have a certain nostalgic fondness for Centurion: Defender of Rome, but it's not a great game by today's standards. It's been a while since I played it.
The oldest non-console game that I've played recently is Laser Chess, I think. High entertainment value for a while, but I've only played it twice in the last decade or so.
QuoteAs well as the 'Strike' series on the Sega Megadrive (Desert Strike, Jungle Strike, Urban Strike, etc)
Once every few years I take a "*something* Strike" game for a spin. Casual gaming, but it's not on rails like most arcade shooters. The games with multiple vehicles/aircraft also offer some variety in gameplay.
QuoteOne game i mentionned that stands out for me is Civil War 2: Generals. The game has a huge number of battles and campaigns. To me, this is still the best game on the Civil War ever done. Music is great and you even have the nights during two days of battles. An amazing game.
Though I like the game, quite a bit actually, the limitations of the campaign in particular slap you in the face after a while: you can equip units with different firearms and strength carries over to a certain extent, but you end up killing the same enemy units over and over as losses are not dynamic. It's fun to play, but the AI isn't particularly clever and it's usually not that difficult to rout the AI army completely.
Some part of me would love to go back and play, 'Battles of Napoleon' by SSI from back in the Day. But I know it's too far back in the Time Machine Hot Tub for me to really enjoy. I would be like Fat Thor seeing his younger, prettier self in Endgame. :2funny:
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 02, 2020, 09:07:59 AM
Some part of me would love to go back and play, 'Battles of Napoleon' by SSI from back in the Day. But I know it's too far back in the Time Machine Hot Tub for me to really enjoy. I would be like Fat Thor seeing his younger, prettier self in Endgame. :2funny:
https://www.myabandonware.com/game/battles-of-napoleon-lo (https://www.myabandonware.com/game/battles-of-napoleon-lo)
1991! :o I thought it was earlier than that. I loved that game-- one of the best tactical treatments of Napoleonic warfare ever. :dreamer:
Quote from: ComradeP on June 02, 2020, 03:53:48 AM
Though I like the game, quite a bit actually, the limitations of the campaign in particular slap you in the face after a while: you can equip units with different firearms and strength carries over to a certain extent, but you end up killing the same enemy units over and over as losses are not dynamic. It's fun to play, but the AI isn't particularly clever and it's usually not that difficult to rout the AI army completely.
What side do you usually take? I always play with the Confederacy. Playing as the Union is way too easy. Anyway, it's a unique game with great artwork and mood nobody has ever reproduced...
QuoteWhat side do you usually take? I always play with the Confederacy. Playing as the Union is way too easy. Anyway, it's a unique game with great artwork and mood nobody has ever reproduced...
I usually play as the Confederacy as well. Though Union units are enormous later in the game compared to what you're using, they can't deal with sustained fire or assaults. Neither can your units, of course, but the AI isn't particularly good at focussing fire.
The hardest part of the Confederate campaign is one mission where the Union suddenly has a stupendous amount of artillery. A bit vague, but I forgot which battle that was.
I agree that the artwork and mood are great. The re-enactor videos are also not bad, but I turn them off after a battle.
I've found two games that I had (and that I played the shit out of) on my first PC that I can play now. The nostalgia was strong in these...First up, Speedball2. This lasted only one match - the controls were just too clunky. Next: Simcity 2000. Now this still plays well, and the graphics and sound are as appealing as they were back then. However...again the controls are an issue compared to what I've grown used to in recent years. I now have Cities:Skylines, which scratches the same itch (gameplay essentially identical), but is just that much more accessible, so I won't go back to SC2000.
My next experiment may be Doom 2 - my first FPS...
All from Microprose: Railroad tycoon, Covert Action and Darklands.
If you like Darklands, you'll feel at home in Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
Darklands was one of the first games I thought of for this thread.
Now, I've only played it a bit, but man alive it seems like a game you could lose yourself in for a lifetime. It's kind of like Morrowind in that sense, except that it has a completely dynamic world every new game.
I can't remember the thread anymore (probably titled "Darklands") but I seem to remember Airboy or someone saying that the only way to really win at it is to learn the alchemy part of the game, which I always suck at.
Anyway, Darklands has like a 150 page manual. Just crazy. So much game. The last time I played it, I remember the graphics not being so much of a problem. More of a problem is that game is just unforgivably hard.
Unforgivably...I've never used that word before; I had to use auto-correct for it. Unforgivably...what a harsh looking work, something about that v, and bly all together hurts my word aesthetics.
Starflight.....I miss Starflight.
Its crowdfunding failure on the remake was truly depressing.
Quote from: Philippe on June 04, 2020, 08:50:12 PM
If you like Darklands, you'll feel at home in Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
Thx, i'll check it out.
Quote from: Toonces on June 04, 2020, 09:00:16 PM
Darklands was one of the first games I thought of for this thread.
Now, I've only played it a bit, but man alive it seems like a game you could lose yourself in for a lifetime. It's kind of like Morrowind in that sense, except that it has a completely dynamic world every new game.
I can't remember the thread anymore (probably titled "Darklands") but I seem to remember Airboy or someone saying that the only way to really win at it is to learn the alchemy part of the game, which I always suck at.
Anyway, Darklands has like a 150 page manual. Just crazy. So much game. The last time I played it, I remember the graphics not being so much of a problem. More of a problem is that game is just unforgivably hard.
Unforgivably...I've never used that word before; I had to use auto-correct for it. Unforgivably...what a harsh looking work, something about that v, and bly all together hurts my word aesthetics.
Like in other jewels from microprose, I think i've grown to like the manual more than game itself. RIP Arnold Hendrick from Microprose.
Quote from: Oche on June 05, 2020, 06:42:30 AM
Quote from: Philippe on June 04, 2020, 08:50:12 PM
If you like Darklands, you'll feel at home in Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
Thx, i'll check it out. Quote from: Toonces on June 04, 2020, 09:00:16 PM
Darklands was one of the first games I thought of for this thread.
Now, I've only played it a bit, but man alive it seems like a game you could lose yourself in for a lifetime. It's kind of like Morrowind in that sense, except that it has a completely dynamic world every new game.
I can't remember the thread anymore (probably titled "Darklands") but I seem to remember Airboy or someone saying that the only way to really win at it is to learn the alchemy part of the game, which I always suck at.
Anyway, Darklands has like a 150 page manual. Just crazy. So much game. The last time I played it, I remember the graphics not being so much of a problem. More of a problem is that game is just unforgivably hard.
Unforgivably...I've never used that word before; I had to use auto-correct for it. Unforgivably...what a harsh looking work, something about that v, and bly all together hurts my word aesthetics.
Like in other jewels from microprose, I think i've grown to like the manual more than game itself. RIP Arnold Hendrick from Microprose.
The game was a mess but the manual for Knights of Legend by Origin was also awesome.
Knights of Legend - just the title brings me back to my local software shop, circa 1987. I can still smell it.
Is the original X COM too "modern" for this thread? My 19 year old daughter plays it, loves it, and prefers it to any of the modern iterations of the game.
Quote from: KyzBP on June 05, 2020, 08:17:20 AM
Is the original X COM too "modern" for this thread? My 19 year old daughter plays it, loves it, and prefers it to any of the modern iterations of the game.
Not too modern at all. It is one of the greatest games ever made. I still play it too and prefer it to any of its successors.
Probably one of the best WWII naval surface battle simulators was "Action Stations!". The game was developed by an active duty naval officer. It was significant because it accurately calculated ballistics and trajectory for each shot.
I had an old 80286 that I ran it on. The poor thing chugged along while processing each shot. I could get a cup of coffee or take a mini-nap between turns.
Minimal graphics, as ugly as sin, but possibly the most accurate WWII naval surface game ever.
I played it until I changed computers about 3 years ago.
Just have to reinstall it again.
I liked Action Stations too. My Amiga could barely handle it.
COVERT ACTION , nice to hear that one mentioned. Loved that game.
SEAL TEAM by EA was played by me for many years afterwards on DosBox.
RED BARON is still mighty fine and can be purchased on GOG.
Quote from: Hot lead and dirty talk! on June 09, 2020, 01:35:36 PM
COVERT ACTION , nice to hear that one mentioned. Loved that game.
SEAL TEAM by EA was played by me for many years afterwards on DosBox.
RED BARON is still mighty fine and can be purchased on GOG.
SEAL Team is awesome. I still play it. The game play hasn't aged too well, but talk about a game that revolutionized the genre.
^Awesome new avatar, Hot Lead!
I just ran across this interesting interview of Trevor Sorensen, creator and developer of Star Fleet II: Krellan Commander.
I remember watching a teacher play Star Fleet I on his office computer when I was in High School. A few years later I picked up Star Fleet II: Krellan Commander from a Software ETC store when I was in college. The game was a blast. I wish I'd kept my box copy, but I still play the game sometimes on DOS BOX and reference the manuals on PDF.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 31, 2020, 06:45:31 AM
Other examples are some games I'm playing, Rules of Engagement and the Star Fleet series, which includes Star Fleet I: The War Begins, Star Fleet II: Krellan Commander, and Star Legion. These are all extremely rich and rewarding titles, that have no peer in the modern gaming age, but which are REALLY old...archaic graphics, minimal sound, UIs from the dawn of time, etc.
I played the hell out of Star Fleet I on the C64 back in the 80s. Loved that thing as a kid.
I also still fire up Starfleet Command 2: Orion Pirates, the later updated and modded version with a lot more in it. Another series I keep coming back to despite the text being quite small on high resolutions. I don't think whichever company re-released it with more updates in the early 2010s is selling it anymore on their out-of-the-way website. Must've lost licensing. Perhaps it'll join SFC1 on GOG eventually.
It's been a few years since I last dusted off DOSBox, but I'd put a vote in for Renegade: Legion Interceptor. Man, alive, was that a great game! It was a reasonably faithful adaptation of the FASA board game by the same name.
Once you got an OP craft, it was kind of game over, but it was a gloriously simple tactical system with a wonderfully rich damage system. I still remember doing a victory dance every time I managed a Particle Cannon shot right down a narrow hole I'd already drilled in my opponent's shield using a Laser!
Imperium 2 was a great game, but not one I've played in a long time now. I got to be very good friends with one of the co-designers on that game, before I ever knew he designed it! I actually saw Ted again just this Spring. Man, we are both a lot older than we were when I was playing that game... ;D
^I never even heard of that game :buck2: