I have open this post also on Matrix forum; what do you think about it?
"I verified in these days how pratically is missing a classical style wargame on WWI; sure there are Guns of AUgust and La Grande Guerre, but they are more Great Strategy oriented that a classical hex military wargame. What I'm thinking is more something similar to WITE where the not-military part is auto-managed or abstracted, and the operation are division-brigade level.
Sure WWI present less "movement" of WWII (but this is more true on west and italian front that on East and Balkan front), but present a similar level of tactical changes and experimentations, logistic difficulties, and careful planning.
Also for Vietnam war a pure style wargame is missing: the tactical and strategical problems of this war will be a great challenge for the player
"
As far as WW1 goes, there is Strategic Command WW1 (http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=271&Itemid=452).
Also Commander: The Great War is out next month.
Mitra there was a game back in the 80s called Conflict in Vietnam by MicroProse that is exactly what you describe for that war. Maybe you can find it and play it on an emulator?
Here's your chit moving WWI game.
http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/ww1/FRANCE14/FRANCE14.html (http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/ww1/FRANCE14/FRANCE14.html)
Theres always The Operational Art of War III scenarios too.
http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/scenarii/the-operational-art-of-war-scenario-747-Tannenberg-1914-The-Clash-of-Empires
Both good calls Spelk. I'd also throw in the HPS Vietnam squad battle games too. Vietnam, Tour of Duty and The Proud and the Few.
Although I must admit that I'm confused. Are you looking for a tactical, operational or strategic game?
I know Strategic Command WW1, but like LGG is more great strategic that a operational like WITE (and isometric map hurts me); I know HPS titles, but mine it is more a observation about the fact that certain '900 wars are a niche in a niche sector, especially if don't correspond to image of classical military modern war (aka panzerdivision, breakthrough, conquest ground, pockets).
Quote from: mitra76 on February 12, 2012, 04:32:34 PM
I know Strategic Command WW1, but like LGG is more great strategic that a operational like WITE (and isometric map hurts me); I know HPS titles, but mine it is more a observation about the fact that certain '900 wars are a niche in a niche sector, especially if don't correspond to image of classical military modern war (aka panzerdivision, breakthrough, conquest ground, pockets).
Dude. I have no idea what this means. What kind of WW1 game are you looking for anyway? There are actually a lot of WW1 games or construction set type games with WW1 scenarios.
One answer: TOAW III.
I think mitra76 has a point. While there are a few very good strategic WWI games(SC:WWI, Guns of August, and the upcoming Commander:The Great War), there's only one operational game below the division level(France 1914).
Not taking anything away from these great games, we don't yet have the "Ultimate" WWI game like WitP and WitE. TOAW has some good scenarios, but that's not the same as a WitP:AE scope game.
I agree with you, mitra. I'm waiting for that game, too.
So we're talking about a very detailed strategic WW1 game? I'm still confused.
WWI Gold by Ageod. Most in depth WWI game out there, and it is solid.
It is also a classic hex based game, with the hexes disguised as regions.
If you look closely, you will notice that every single region on the map is surrounded by exactly six other regions, thus creating a large hex system.
Has some really cool gameplay elements like picking your starting war plans, which give variant starts and setups for each sides, along with mandatory attacks to reflect the early mindset.
Also has card driven game element.
Recently bought Strategic Command WWI, this one also looks like a winner. While not the same depth as WWI Gold, it still has quite a bit of game there, plus numerous scenarios, an editor, and a bonus WWII scenario that looks great.
I did like Frank Hunters game, but the interface was clunky, and I believe these other two have passed it up as they are more recent releases by several years now.
Slick center my point; WWI Gold is very good but the military part is far from be "classical", is more grand strategic that strategic. What I will want was a game which display to player the problems of military operation in WWI. GUns of August has a good system with HQ point and impulses but is again too abstracted on military side because is more grand strategic that operational. WITE is my template. France 1914 is too limited by the scenario for give a full view to WWI.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on February 12, 2012, 08:02:19 PM
Not taking anything away from these great games, we don't yet have the "Ultimate" WWI game like WitP and WitE. TOAW has some good scenarios, but that's not the same as a WitP:AE scope game.
I agree with you, mitra. I'm waiting for that game, too.
Of course, we do have War Plan Orange (built on the original WitP engine), which might as well be late WW1 in the Pacific.
I think what Mitra is talking about is a WW I version of Decisive Campaigns. Closest we have is HPS/Tiller France '14.
I think that for such a game, you would be constrained to something in the 1914 War of Movement on the Western Front, the 1918 Offensives, or Eastern Front, as I dont see that a product just pouring regiments into frontal assaults against trenches to be slaughtered would be fun as there just isnt the operational element you would be looking for there. Probably has a lot to do with why virtually all the WWI games that do exist are at the WWI Gold/GoA level.
It sounds to me like your dream game would be if somebody converted CoA's epic "Home Before the Leaves Fall" game covering August-November 1914 on a regimental scale with about 2000 units, GMT's Twilight in the East covering the same time span on the same scale on the Eastern Front, or Ted Racier's Great War in Europe, which is the whole show on a divisional scale, to a computer game.
Sadly, as much as I would like to see something like that done, I just dont think it is going to happen.
Any of you play War Plan Orange? I've been interested in that game since it's release but haven't bought it. Is it hard to get into?
Quote from: Gusington on February 13, 2012, 03:23:52 PM
Any of you play War Plan Orange? I've been interested in that game since it's release but haven't bought it. Is it hard to get into?
I have not played it. IIRC it's a more limited version based on War in the Pacific's engine.
^Yes and that's one of the reasons why I am interested in it. Besides the era of course.
It's fairly intricate but not unplayable. I'd compare it to Uncommon Valor. Same engine as WitP but manageable scenarios.
I have played through a few initial turns of War in the Pacific.
IMHO the game isn't so complex as to be beyond mere mortals to play. It is simply the same thing across an enormous expanse that is the PTO.
WPO takes place before the advent of air power, so you won't have CAPs and the like to deal with, which will simplify things for you. Probably enough to make it a complex wargame, but not enough to make it overwhelming.
No, you have a couple of carriers in WPO and land-based stuff.
Land based stuff eh? Like what?
Pretty ineffective bombers deHavlin DH-4s, etc.
^Very interesting.
Quote from: Bismarck on February 13, 2012, 09:03:19 PM
Pretty ineffective bombers deHavlin DH-4s, etc.
The Martin bombers were good enough to sink the SMS Ostfriesland (remember Jimmy Dolittle?) and
there were torpedo bombers being developed in the late 20s that could have sunk capital ships. My
understanding of WPO is that if you train your aircrews mercilessly they will become effective antiship
weapons. My actual experience with the game is limited however.
So 1920s era bombers are capable of sinking capital ships in this?
If they are lucky and well trained. Especially the torp bombers. The AA was primitive on those ships at the time, mostly MGs.
Very cool!
Quote from: Gusington on February 13, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
Very cool!
I've played it a bit, and it is indeed very cool. {g} More capital-ship oriented than air-power, as noted, but the air-power is there. But it's easier to manage than in full-bore WitP (even the original version of it, which is what WPO is based on.)
Production management is more simplified, too. Altogether, WPO is somewhat easier to get into than WitP.
There's a recent mod that introduces the German High Seas fleet and more British power, too.
The game isn't terribly buggy either. Most of the improvements that "Tankerace" (the game's designer) was working on, back in 2008 when his harddrive crashed, were OOB.
I'd say it's still the best (pseudo-)WW1 turn-based "operational" strategy game on the market right now. Although the new releases (from HPS, Slitherine and Battlefront) are pushing hard. (WW1Gold is still the best grand strategy game of the war.)
Old thread put good info.
I played Conflict in Vietnam by Microprose on my C64 many years ago.
It is available for free download from an abandobware site.
The game runs in DOS mode.
I have it and works better than on the C64.
Link is...
http://www.myabandonware.com/game/conflict-in-vietnam-7r
Give it a go, I enjoyed the hell out of it.
Cheers
Quote from: Bison on February 12, 2012, 08:07:04 PM
So we're talking about a very detailed strategic WW1 game? I'm still confused.
He's talking Operational level or lower.