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Crusader Kings II (http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-CK2/crusader-kings-ii) is scheduled for release in two days, on 14 February 2012. Those who pre-order will also receive Crusader Kings Complete (http://www.gamersgate.com/DDB-CKDV/crusader-kings-complete-bundle) plus the first two CK2 DLCs for free, Crusader Kings II Dynasty Shield and Crusader Kings II Mongol Faces for free.

So who is going to pre-order Crusader Kings II or already has? Does anyone plan on buying it later after the price has dropped? Is anyone not going to purchase it and why not?

I am trying to decide whether to buy CK2 or not. I wasn't a fan of the original, but the demo looked very good and seemed more bug-free than recent Paradox releases. I generally dislike the idea of DLC, but it is sometimes acceptable under certain circumstances.

Pre-ordered just about a month ago.  Looking forward to it.  If your going to end up buying at some point, might as well order now and get the two DLC free.  Also, if you look down a couple of threads about the 15% off code from IGN, even makes it better to buy now, if your going to buy from GamersGate.

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=248.0 (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=248.0)

"If your going to end up buying at some point, might as well order now and get the two DLC free."
That was my line of thinking also.

Thanks for the link about the 15% off from IGN, but I won't be buying the digital download of CK2 from anyplace but GamersGate to avoid having to use Steam. I was even considering buying the game from the Paradox Webshop (http://www.gameplayoutlet.com/us_store/ck2.html) as well in order to get a printed paper manual--it's on sale there for $35.99 plus shipping--but paying that much more money for a paper manual seemed a bit much.

I'm thinking I'll be getting the game, but not for a few months yet.  I figure that should be long enough for the price to come down a bit, and (more importantly) for the worst of the bugs/issues to be patched. 

I am enjoying the demo so far, but Paradox's reputation has really taken a hit with me in the last year or two.  Hence why I'm going to wait. 

Quote from: Greybriar on February 12, 2012, 07:11:03 PM
I was even considering buying the game from the Paradox Webshop (http://www.gameplayoutlet.com/us_store/ck2.html) as well in order to get a printed paper manual--it's on sale there for $35.99 plus shipping--but paying that much more money for a paper manual seemed a bit much.

Well presumably a physical copy purchased direct from their store would still require Steam, so it's just as well you didn't order from them. 

Quote from: Greybriar on February 12, 2012, 07:11:03 PM
"If your going to end up buying at some point, might as well order now and get the two DLC free."
That was my line of thinking also.

Thanks for the link about the 15% off from IGN, but I won't be buying the digital download of CK2 from anyplace but GamersGate to avoid having to use Steam. I was even considering buying the game from the Paradox Webshop (http://www.gameplayoutlet.com/us_store/ck2.html) as well in order to get a printed paper manual--it's on sale there for $35.99 plus shipping--but paying that much more money for a paper manual seemed a bit much.

The 15 percent is off at gamers gate so you should be able to buy from there.  The code from ign is from gg.

Quote from: Martok on February 12, 2012, 07:34:54 PM
Well presumably a physical copy purchased direct from their store would still require Steam, so it's just as well you didn't order from them.

That was why I was considering buying both the digital download from GamersGate and the boxed version from the Paradox Webshop. Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 12, 2012, 07:37:05 PM
The 15 percent is off at gamers gate so you should be able to buy from there.  The code from ign is from gg.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check IGN out.

Played the demo some last night and today.  Really impressed with the game, an immense improvement over CKI.

I have preordered through Gamer's Gate, which I prefer to Steam.

Looking forward to the release.

Normally I go through gamersgate for PI stuff.  However I think I'll pull the trigger on the pre-order I've had sitting in my cart for the last 5 days on Steam.

Pre-ordered it last week on GG. I was already hyped for it, an the favorable impressions of the people around these parts in the Beta won me over.

Well, we are just about there....just a number of hours away now....hope it lives up to the good reviews received.

So say we all.

I can tell you all this: I played several hours today in the late beta I have... and it was some of the most fun I've had in a long long time.

For more... you will have to wait until I write something up more official.

[Martok rolls Willpower check]


Made it!  ...Barely. 

Man, this is hard.  I realize, though, that I have the entire Europa Universalis collection, practically (except CK1), including Rome and Vae Victus.  I'm on a bit of a Rome kick lately, so I think I can jump into that and put CK2 off until it's in the bin.

But, I really hate that I'm always 6-12 months behind you guys on "the next big thing"!  Like Skyrim...you guys had like a 3 month head start on me with that! 

I'm in on this one and went the Steam route.  Mostly because I'm freaking tired of having to manage so many different digital download accounts and Gamersgate had a string of issues for me lately.  I think I'm past the need for a physical copy of games.  I have a damned huge box of them and most of the ones I really liked I ended up getting on sale digitally anyway.  I would like to see devs and publishers produce good, in depth manuals that you could order either through an e-book outlet or as a physical copy.  Or better yet just include a dang PDF file with the game to transfer over to a tablet.

I went with Gamersgate. I'm hoping CKII is going to be the game that finally cracks open the Pandora's box that is Grand Strategy for me, with its cheeky RPG like qualities of familial succession. Plus I need an excuse to whiz my "wargaming interest" time machine back into the medieval era.

I don't understand why there is so much fuss about this game being "game of the year" already.  Wasn't PON hyped like that? VIC2? I've been burned one two many times by overzealous fans claiming this game is the next best thing since the invention of spam.

Really, what is so exciting about family relations anyway? I hate seeing my family on the holidays.  Why do I want to play a game about it?

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 14, 2012, 04:01:37 AM
I don't understand why there is so much fuss about this game being "game of the year" already.  Wasn't PON hyped like that? VIC2? I've been burned one two many times by overzealous fans claiming this game is the next best thing since the invention of spam.

I truly expect to be burnt by this title, it's Paradox, I'm always sucked in by the themed content, and I'm always left clueless and disappointed. But the demo did give me some hope that this one might actually cut the mustard.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 14, 2012, 04:01:37 AM
Really, what is so exciting about family relations anyway? I hate seeing my family on the holidays.  Why do I want to play a game about it?

I think it's because it gives you a sense of connection with your character, and you can add into that mix personal relationships with international decisions about conflicts and war.

If we had a game where you can manipulate the inter-relationships between FDR, Eisenhower, Churchill, Stalin and Charles de Gaul in a way that affected the decisions about operational movement and the outcomes of battles it would be more intoxicating.

It's the connection of personalities/personas to the grander movements of conquest and defeat.

Ultimately, I won't understand any of it, be boggled by all the numbers, and will go play a simple chit shuffler to satisfy my lust for interactive history. :)

Downloading full game from gg right now.... Too bad I can't play until I get home from work tonight:(

So on day one, already four DLC packs available.  Two of them you could have gotten free if you pre-ordered and in addition there is now two additional music DLC.

Not saying good or bad since each person has a choice to buy or not, but will be interesting to see how much DLC content this game ends up with...might set a world record:)

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 14, 2012, 06:32:41 AM
So on day one, already four DLC packs available.  Two of them you could have gotten free if you pre-ordered and in addition there is now two additional music DLC.

Not saying good or bad since each person has a choice to buy or not, but will be interesting to see how much DLC content this game ends up with...might set a world record:)

Paradox loves to offer DLC.

I bought it from GamersGate. GamersGate is the only source for a non-Steam version of CK2. Since I'm getting damned tired of having games go Steam-only, I felt I ought to support the only non-Steam Crusader Kings II digital distributor out there.

Downloading now.  This better be good or SoM goes to the Rack!

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org%2F02%2F3%2F1%2F1%2F68647261846184671.jpg&hash=0dd04bfee5698762107e5a7d9c9932d8f9efd91d)

^^ LOL!

I'm holding off for now. Instead, I'm going to purchase Jagged Alliance: Back in Action.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 14, 2012, 04:01:37 AM
I don't understand why there is so much fuss about this game being "game of the year" already.  Wasn't PON hyped like that? VIC2? I've been burned one two many times by overzealous fans claiming this game is the next best thing since the invention of spam.

Really, what is so exciting about family relations anyway? I hate seeing my family on the holidays.  Why do I want to play a game about it?

Well, since it is only February, I think it is certainly the game of the year (so far).  ;)

For me, at least in my beta experience, CKII has been the best game released in the last few months. Will it beat those coming up in the future. Can't tell. It all depends on how much you like the EU-style games and how "into" you get with the dynasty planning.

Here is what I did yesterday:

Started up in 1266 as Charles d'Anjou, King of Sicily. Charles recently acquired his kingdom, having been granted authority over it by the pope (despite the crown already being held by Conradin Hohenstaugen of Germany. Charles had (before my game begun) executed Conradin in cold blood and officially taken the crown in 1266. Upon starting my game I was faced by a slew of vassals and courtiers who hated me - largely because of my short reign, the fact I ruled too many provinces directly (exceeded by demesne size score), and I claimed too many Duchy titles. So I set about rewarding my most faithful vassals with counties in Sicily and the lower part of Italy. To my son and heir, Charles the Lame (unfortunately a hunchback, but turning out to have excellent potential as a warrior), I granted the title of Duke of Sicily, giving him control over four counties on the island. To his brother, Phillippe, I granted by familial title, given to me by my brother Louis IX, King of France (later known as Saint Louis), of the Duchy of Anjou (in central-north France) - including the counties of Anjou and Maine. Now I had fewer duchies and under my demesne score, so my vassals seemed a tad happier.

I set my courtiers to improving troop training in Naples and researching techs. My Lord Chaplain was sent to butter up the pope a bit. My spy master would search for plots in Naples, my capital. All seemed well.

No sooner had I set back to rest than the french counts of the Venaissin and the neighboring county (which slips my mind ATM) decided they would become independent and fight for an independent Provence, declaring war on me). I would have none of that, so I levied my personal troops (around 6000-8000 troops, more than enough) and raised my fleets to send the Italian troops over to Provence. I crushed the forces of these two upstarts, but the sieges would take some time, so we waited under the walls of Avignon for the enemy troops to starve and surrender. This would be several months, and I would need to besiege multiple castles and cities within the counties before I could enforce my "peace" upon these rebels. So we waited.

While waiting, the nefarious Prince-Bishop of Benevento, a wealthy county next to Naples, decided to buck my authority and declare that I held no right to the throne and thus did not deserve his allegiance. I responded by levying my son's troops in Sicily, he would not want them gone long but was happy to oblige for a the course of crushing this rebellion. Thus we besieged Benevento.

By the turning of a year, both rebellions had been crushed and one count and two Bishop-Princes languished in my prison as traitors. I needed to decide what to do with them. I could ransom them for money, but this would return hated counts to their position with no punishment. I could let them go, out of mercy, improving their view of me and improving relations with all my vassals. Eschewing mercy, I could execute these traitors, but this would be a shock to all my vassals. Even more shocking, I could seize their counties for myself, banish the traitors, and take their personal assets - a most shocking act to all my vassals. Another option would be to take advantage of this as a pretense to up the crown's authority to low, upsetting my vassals, but giving me the power to revoke the titles of these rebels. My vassals would not like the raised royal authority, but would accept the revocation of titles because these men were traitors.

The count and the Prince-Bishop of Benevento were both old men... and languishing in my prison would reduce their health. If they died of "natural causes" while held in my dungeons, well... that would be God's will, right? So I let them rot for a while, no rush in deciding their fate. The other Prince-Bishop was a young man, but I happened to have the authority to appoint his successor. I choose a loyal courtier and then showed my mercy by releasing the imprisoned rebel. Unfortunately, when he returned to his county he fell under an assassin's blade. Pity. No... my spymaster was in Naples... I assure you... any resemblance to the man setting up a spy ring in the month prior to his release would be purely coincidence.

About this time, my brother Louis IX, had a crusade called against a sultanate in Egypt, the home of the Kraak de Chevaliers castle. While I was a bit depleted from war, Louis personally requested that I join, so I was unable to refuse. There is a reason he is called "Saint Louis" and it wasn't only his demeanor, but his dogged and persistent Crusading.

I'll cut off the story there... we did win the crusade, with the help of many European knights. I realized I had made a mistake by not having my sons betrothed before I granted them their duchies, once they became dukes I could no longer arrange suitable marriages for them and they ended up marrying lower born courtiers. Also, giving my second son the duchy of Anjou created problems and his older brother fomented a plot to have him murdered. I had to step in and intervene, but I could tell that wasn't the last I would see of that rivalry.

^For some reason, I think that sounds much more interesting to me as a tale I'm reading, then a a game I'm actually playing.

Just finished up the tutorials.  At first I thought that Paradox actually did something smart this time, three tiers of tutorials.  After I finished, I realized they were nothing more than a glossy varnish.  I nice varnish, but honestly not the depth of gameplay wisdom I was hoping for in a three tiered tutorial.  They were really just a UI quicky.  Paradox was Paradox on this one.

Anywhoo, I'm going to start out my first campaign as Brian of Cornwall.  It's the 14th of October 1066 A.D.  I picked Cornwall because I'm on an Arthur kick right now and I want to kick some Saxon butt.  And since as far as I can tell, Cornwall is the Welsh lands were Arthur may have pursued Saxon blood from 600 years earlier.  And no I don't want any academic babble about the true origins of Arthur or the lord of Cornwall at the time.  It's my story and I say Brian is the descendent heir to the legendary Arthur. 

Have to agree Bison....I know everyone is praising the tutorials, but I found them lacking and needlessly separated by the three levels.  Each step seemed to only last a few actual game moves before moving on to the next lesson.  Much rather have seen them stringed together by entire levels.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 14, 2012, 06:54:14 PM
^For some reason, I think that sounds much more interesting to me as a tale I'm reading, then a a game I'm actually playing.

After playing the demo I think I agree with this statement.  Lots of cool stuff to do but its much more interesting having someone tell the tale.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 14, 2012, 04:01:37 AM
I don't understand why there is so much fuss about this game being "game of the year" already.  Wasn't PON hyped like that? VIC2? I've been burned one two many times by overzealous fans claiming this game is the next best thing since the invention of spam.

Really, what is so exciting about family relations anyway? I hate seeing my family on the holidays.  Why do I want to play a game about it?

But here, you can mercilessly slaughter your obnoxious uncle when he goes too far WITHOUT facing a lengthy prison sentence.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 14, 2012, 06:54:14 PM
^For some reason, I think that sounds much more interesting to me as a tale I'm reading, then a a game I'm actually playing.

You do have to realize that I've spent the better part of the last 3 years writing about Charles of Anjou and his descendents (Charles the Lame, the hunchback I mentioned and his son Robert the Wise). So... part of my enthusiasm is due to the geeking out playing this as an RPG version of my dissertation. My wife thinks we have mice because of all the "Squeeeeeeeee!!!!" nerding out noises she hears when I am playing.

So there is a definite YMMV situation here from my experience with the game.

For instance, I got a huge kick sitting there thinking about letting the Bishop of Benevento rot in prison because I knew that, had Charles been in the same situation, he would have said the same thing about letting the old, sick man rot in prison and if he died... well... God's will. It was as if Charles were with me in spirit, patting me on the back.

Still downloading.  Can a previous CK player skip the tutorial and just play?

Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 14, 2012, 11:18:48 PM

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 14, 2012, 06:54:14 PM
^For some reason, I think that sounds much more interesting to me as a tale I'm reading, then a a game I'm actually playing.

You do have to realize that I've spent the better part of the last 3 years writing about Charles of Anjou and his descendents (Charles the Lame, the hunchback I mentioned and his son Robert the Wise). So... part of my enthusiasm is due to the geeking out playing this as an RPG version of my dissertation. My wife thinks we have mice because of all the "Squeeeeeeeee!!!!" nerding out noises she hears when I am playing.

So there is a definite YMMV situation here from my experience with the game.

For instance, I got a huge kick sitting there thinking about letting the Bishop of Benevento rot in prison because I knew that, had Charles been in the same situation, he would have said the same thing about letting the old, sick man rot in prison and if he died... well... God's will. It was as if Charles were with me in spirit, patting me on the back.

Yes. This is textbook YMMV.  I know that there is no way I will get the same enjoyment out of the game as someone with your medieval historical expertise will.  Its like there are typical rules for playing the game, but buried beneath those rules, is another set of historical rules that you just can't learn easily without reading the history books. 

What I do know is that your AAR will be damn fine reading.   

Is combat modeled in CKII?

Quote from: Gusington on February 15, 2012, 09:55:45 AM
Is combat modeled in CKII?

What do you mean, Gus? Warfare is modeled but not tactical combat. What I mean is, the combat system is the same as in Europa Universalis 3. There are loads of modifiers that present themselves when you put one army in the same county as another army - did you cross a river, is it winter, who has the better martial skill, do you have flanking... etc. But I think you will find it similar to the AGEOD games, if even a bit simpler.

QuoteIts like there are typical rules for playing the game, but buried beneath those rules, is another set of historical rules that you just can't learn easily without reading the history books.

Funny you should mention that... when I get some time, my first project is to do a 15 minute or so "How to understand the CKII vassal system" video. I'll be honest about the game, I think it is a very very fine piece of work but I'm surprised that people aren't all over the vassal UI and complaining about trying to understand the vassal assignment and interaction system - which is a fundamental piece of the game - but also one of the most confusing.

Yeah I meant tactics. So, no tactics but players do get to build their army?

Also it looks like the player plays as the leader of a dynasty but not necessarily a specific kingdom. Can your dynasty take over other kingdoms from other dynasties? If I play as the Habsburgs can I control Austria and Spain like in history? Can I go a-historical too and do some crazy stuff?

Just had my first taste of what CKII can offer, I think. I was playing through the tutorials this morning, and by the time I'd finished them I was about done - sapped my enthusiasm - and overloaded my tiny noggin with information.

I took a short break, watched a youtube vid or two, then tried to play a small country, Denmark for a little while. I just couldn't get a handle on it really. Spent most of my time answering the pleads coming from my 20+ sons and daughters! Felt like I was playing a weird version of the Sims.

However, my son came in and started watching me, as I started a new game as the King of Leon in Spain. Suddenly, with both our attentions focused on the comings and goings of the area - and the communal jeering and laughter at events unfolding, it flicked on the switch and started to become fun. I lost in a hail of sieges from surrounding provinces, whilst my main army was out on a Holy crusade against the heathens.

But that loss, fuelled another go at it, after lunch, and this time we played it more carefully, however we still lost abysmally. Still, I think it helped me enormously to have another person invested in the outcomes, and able to discuss the decisions that had to be made, which sort of opened the game up a bit more. I'm still as clueless as ever about how to play it successfully. It sometimes feels like a complex game of Risk married with Dwarf Fortress. But now, I'm interested in how to do things. And I was amazed at the emotional responses generated when you nurture your son through troubled years of conflict, readying him for succession and then the enemy assassinate him and try to poison me. Without thinking about consequences the outrage had me on a war footing instantly!

Powerful stuff.

Now I need some coaching in strategy methinks.

Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 15, 2012, 11:08:03 AM
I'll be honest about the game, I think it is a very very fine piece of work but I'm surprised that people aren't all over the vassal UI and complaining about trying to understand the vassal assignment and interaction system - which is a fundamental piece of the game - but also one of the most confusing.

Not to insult anybody, but I bet the concepts are so over the heads of most players that they don't even know that there are concepts to learn.

Quote from: Gusington on February 15, 2012, 11:31:01 AM
Yeah I meant tactics. So, no tactics but players do get to build their army?

Also it looks like the player plays as the leader of a dynasty but not necessarily a specific kingdom. Can your dynasty take over other kingdoms from other dynasties? If I play as the Habsburgs can I control Austria and Spain like in history? Can I go a-historical too and do some crazy stuff?

Actually, no, you can't "build your army." But being able to do so would be ahistorical, as medieval armies were not "commissioned," they were born and trained. The amount of levies (read "troops you can call up") are dependent upon the type and number of holdings you have in your counties. There are three types of holdings - Cities (generate the most tax revenue but the least number and least powerful troops), Bishoprics (generate a balanced amount of tax revenue and troops, but the clergy often get out of paying taxes), and Castles (generate low tax revenue, particularly if you don't tax nobility, but the best and largest levies). So my county of Naples had two cities, a bishopric and a castle, so I could levy some 2,000 troops (many of which were the powerful knights) and - with training and time - could get that number to the max amount of 5,000 troops.

You play as a character, who is the head of a dynasty, not as a specific kingdom. If your dynasty ended without an heir, your game largely ends (there are ways around this). That character personally rules over a number of provinces - for a lowly count that would be a single province, for a Duke that can be several counties (provinces) and for a king that can be a large amount of provinces. When you call up troops you have several options. You can always raise you personal retinue - the troops available in the counties your ruler personally governs. You can also keep these raised for as long as you have the tax revenue to support them.

Further, you can request from your subordinate vassals (characters with minds of their own) that they raise their provinces' troops and place them under your command. They can refuse, and if they allow it they will expect to have their levies back eventually, so their disposition toward their ruler will lower the longer those levies remain out and under your control.

The best solution, if you can handle a problem with only your personal retinue (for Charles of Anjou, that was some 6,000-7,000 troops), then you should do that. For larger jobs you should pick your most loyal vassals first, then resort to less loyal vassals in extreme circumstances.

Yes, you can absorb other people's titles, via inheritance and conquest, but it would be a fairly difficult thing to do for entire kingdoms. Your Hapsburg example happened due to inheritance, and only then in the convoluted politics of the Early Modern era (beyond the scope of CKII). For example, as Charles I had my chamberlain work on fabricating a claim on the city of Genoa. After a year or so (it was a percent chance of 10% per year of success), he succeeded and I then had a Causus Belli to declare war on the Genoese. I conquered Genoa and Nice and then had control over over 50% of the Duchy of Genoa, so I usurped the title from the current holder (the doge) and it was mine. The same would be true with kingdoms - if you managed to conquer over 50% of the crown of Aragon (shame on you Gus, Spain did not exist before 1492), then you could usurp the title... but that would be a long and hard road, unless you were a playing a pretender to the throne.

This game is total SOM pr0n.  I can see him playing this game with a bottle of Aveeno at his side. 

As an admitted EUIII Moron, this game sounds as if would be beyond me. I only have so much brain power available.

But there is a chance the fun factor would push me further. That's what's happening with Shogun 2 right now for me. I blitzed and took over a heapin' helpin' of provinces early on, only to be rolled back and then gang-beaten by my neighbors in my first campaign...the AI is definitely better in Shogun 2 than is has ever been. But as that happened and my attention was focused, I really learned what I need to do to survive.

Have to admit I am intrigued by the ideas posted here on CKII. Except the Aveeno.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 15, 2012, 01:43:36 PM
This game is total SOM pr0n.  I can see him playing this game with a bottle of Aveeno at his side.

Aveeno is ahistorical. The bottle is cod oil.

^Thanks for making the imagery even more grotesque.

Quote from: Gusington on February 15, 2012, 02:52:29 PM
^Thanks for making the imagery even more grotesque.

Then you probably shouldn't picture me playing the game in a chainmail coif.

I can handle that better than the cod oil masturbatory nightmare.

Wordy explanations do not make something complex just the explanations wordy.

Quote from: Bison on February 15, 2012, 03:35:38 PM
Wordy explanations do not make something complex just the explanations wordy.

Pointless statements do not make the discussion pointless, just the statement.

Perhaps you would like to summarize better?

Nope.  I wouldn't.

Well then, since you looked it up, QFT.  ;)

What's wrong guys?

Quote from: Gusington on February 15, 2012, 07:11:55 PM
What's wrong guys?

I don't know. Apparently my explanations of the feudal vassalage system in CK II were too wordy to be helpful?

I was hoping I could shed some light on a game mechanic that, IMHO, is very complex even if the way in which it is managed seems simple at first glance. I thought the time I took to explain it was reasonable and didn't merit negativity. No good deed goes unpunished, I suppose?

But, as I said, IMHO the are some hidden nuances in the game's feudal system that make it deceptively confusing. You have a nice button to call up your entire kingdom's levies, but that rarely is a good idea if you want to keep the peace in your realm. So you have buttons below that where you can call up specific counties. But even this is a bit more complicated - if you have a vassal (typically a Duke) who has vassals of his/her own, you can order that vassal to ONLY levy troops from his personal retinue (i.e. the counties he rules directly) or his entire duchy, including his vassals troops. That can be a nesting doll of pain - levying his vassals troops can create enmity between your duke and his subordinate... which, in turn, goes up to you.

I forgot to mention that you have the exact same thing with fleets. But I am, as of yet, unclear to how one actually gets more ships in one's fleets. I think this has to do with building more cities and outfitting them with docks.

Given that every single character has an opinion of other characters and you... the game gets pretty deep if you want to delve into all that.

I'm pretty much with JH on this one.  SoM, you sure make the game sound rocking, but somehow I just don't think I would find it fun like you find it fun.

I started the demo and my eyes rolled back into my head.  Good lord, and you are the same guys that call WiTP complex?  Whatever, dudes.

Quote from: Toonces on February 15, 2012, 10:58:56 PM
....I started the demo and my eyes rolled back into my head.  Good lord, and you are the same guys that call WiTP complex?  Whatever, dudes.

I got a good laugh out of that statement. :)

Quote from: Toonces on February 15, 2012, 10:58:56 PM
I'm pretty much with JH on this one.  SoM, you sure make the game sound rocking, but somehow I just don't think I would find it fun like you find it fun.

I started the demo and my eyes rolled back into my head.  Good lord, and you are the same guys that call WiTP complex?  Whatever, dudes.

Oh please! I can't even make it through one turn of WitP!  ;D

I think you may be right though, familiarity with the subject matter leads to better understanding of the game. With WitP, I look and say "what the heck do I DO?" and have no sense of strategy. With CKII, I have a grand story ready to tell. But I know very little about the Pacific Theater history, the strategy, etc. and I've spent the last seven years in deep study of the middle ages.

To be honest, I was far less enthused about Sengoku for the very same reasons. Of course, CKII has a lot more to do than Sengoku did.

Acutally.  The game is simple if you don't play to win but just play to make a good story.

Ok fired up the game last night for the first time.  No tutorial since I have played CK1. 
Oh my! The interface is here is much worse than before (my opinion).  Took a while before I found my appointed leaders.  And took a while before I know where to look to do stuff.

Anyway.  I need a wife.  What's be best way to find a girl to marry?
I tried using the people filter but I keep geting courtesans and no royalty to marry.
What's the quickest way to find a nice girl that can bring so much prestige to my dynasty?

Quote from: jomni on February 16, 2012, 12:38:06 AM
I tried using the people filter but I keep geting courtesans and no royalty to marry.
What's the quickest way to find a nice girl that can bring so much prestige to my dynasty?

Don't you filter on Rank, and then any royalty will sort to the top of the list?

Sometimes theres no-one worth marrying though, and then I think you have to invite a debutante to your court (which costs money).

I found the pairing up mechanism a bit cumbersome. If you want to ally yourself with a particular country, you have to click on the country, click on the leader, diplomacy, arrange marriage, select your bridge or groom, then select the country's bride or groom from their list - sorted by rank usually. All this has to be done for each country you want to search for a match in. If there isn't anything appropriate in that country, you have to cancel the whole procedure and start again.

Unless I'm doing it wrong.

I better look for that rank filter.  But I guess the ones with rank are already fat and married.  Not the pretty ones.

Quote from: jomni on February 16, 2012, 03:59:01 AM
I better look for that rank filter.  But I guess the ones with rank are already fat and married.  Not the pretty ones.

Oh sure, they're usually the ones with hairlip, clubfoot or hunchback - not to mention the gluttonous and deceitful traits. :)

The rank sort icon looks like a crown, I think, and is the second one along from the left. The first one being opinion (of you).

I had a hell of a fight yesterday when my sister Princess Urraca revolted against me, and I was tied up in a holy war miles away. Ultimately she persuaded my brother against me too (since he was heir to the throne) and combined they started marching on my territory. In a last ditch attempt I hired a bucketload of Saxon mercs, who almost took me to the brink of victory, until the money run out. Then they abandoned me with glee, when my brother paid them double, and set them onto my kingdom. All was lost by then. Penniless, army-less, they rolled over me.

The excitement caused by that one singular betrayal at the very beginning of my reign, caused ripples in the waters of fate until I was lying dead in the crumbling castle, being trodden underfoot by my own hired Saxon army!

I should have married a sweet French girl, with high connections, and had the French Army march across the Pyrenees to suffocate my Sisters ambitions and teach those Saxon turncoats a thing or two!

I think I'm going to end up liking Crusader Kings 2 a lot, for at least two reasons: 


1.)  Period & setting.  While I'm definitely not an expert on the Middle Ages like SoM, I've long had an enthusiasm for it.  I couldn't tell you why, exactly -- other than that includes various factors like the religion & politics (and how those two were even more inextricably entwined than they are today), the feudal system, the weapons & tactics used in warfare, etc. -- but either way, I've spent almost half my life being utterly fascinated with the period. 

So perhaps those who don't have much interest in the game simply don't have a particular interest in medieval Europe either?  I suspect that may be the case for a lot of folks. 



2.)  Characters.  One of the reasons I like grand strategy games is that you're essentially writing your own story as the game progresses.  And really, what's a good story without characters in it? 

Well since CK2 is all about characters, it's not hard to imagine its appeal to me.  I've admittedly only played the demo a little bit so far, but it seems to me that you're managing your people even more than your territories, which I find to be a wonderfully different take on the genre. 

What do you do with that wayward son of yours?  You don't want to knock him off if you can reasonably avoid it (he's your heir after all, and those can be dangerously rare at times), yet you obviously can't just continue to let him run amuck causing trouble either.  Perhaps giving him part of your demesne would help (improves loyalty while potentially freeing up additional counties/provinces to add to your own demesne). 

How about that bishop who pays little in the way of taxes and defies you at every turn?  Do you try and quietly remove him and hope he gets replaced with someone more pliable?  Or do you find some way to curry favor with him instead?  How do you maximize taxes and levies from your vassals while keeping them relatively compliant and satisfied? 


Yeah, this is definitely the sort of thing I can just eat up! 

Quote from: jomni on February 16, 2012, 12:38:06 AM
Acutally.  The game is simple if you don't play to win but just play to make a good story.

Ok fired up the game last night for the first time.  No tutorial since I have played CK1. 
Oh my! The interface is here is much worse than before (my opinion).  Took a while before I found my appointed leaders.  And took a while before I know where to look to do stuff.

Anyway.  I need a wife.  What's be best way to find a girl to marry?
I tried using the people filter but I keep geting courtesans and no royalty to marry.
What's the quickest way to find a nice girl that can bring so much prestige to my dynasty?

You can also click on your ruler to bring up his character sheet. If unmarried, there is a little "dual rings" button to the right of his picture. Click that and it will bring up a giant list of available ladies who will likely agree to marry you. You can do this for most any character in your dynasty. With that tool, you can also filter it to get certain types of ladies. If your character is a minor, you will have to have he or she betrothed rather than married.

I think playing the game is simple, but there is a lot of hidden or poorly documented complexity in the vassal/subordinate UI and system. For instance, I suddenly got a message that said "wrong type of ruler for holding." I scratched my head, what did this mean? Also my King's dominion score suddenly went up (over the limit). So I clicked on it to see that the Baron of Sisteron (a small castle holding within the county of Provence) was vacant, apparently the previous tenant had died and bequeathed it to me. So I had to find a replacement. Finding a replacement for a position is a bit harder than it should be, particularly for these low level positions.

I may have missed it, but is there a button or method for assigning a county or holding from the county or holding's information screen? Or do I have to use the character filter to dig through potential subordinates, then go to the diplomacy screen, click the grant landed title, and then scroll to the title I want to give?

Also, I finally realize that the "include lower titles" button on the grant title interface does NOT mean show lower level vassal titles, but show UPPER level titles (typically duchies) that include authority over lower level titles. The way in which that is worded is a little odd. 

I love the game still, but I have a few minor annoyances. Sometimes you can tell that the event dialog and choices are too generic and probably not written by a native English speaker. Some of the event choices are fairly vague. You get an event saying something like, Bishop X tells you that your life is sinful: I will be more pious and austere (piety +5, prestige -5); Listen to him, but do nothing (no change)...; That priest... (no change); I will live as I always have! (prestige +5, piety -5, relation with Bishop -20). Sure, the two ends of the spectrum are clear, but what about the middle two? Now I totally made this up, because I couldn't remember a specific event that did this, but I have seen a few where the impact of the middle "meh" choices and the difference between them were unclear. I suppose that some fire additional events later, but that could be stated (and usually is for many events). Overall, I would have liked a little better event text.

One of the issues with the UI is that you are limited in the number of windows that can be open at one time.  You are generally limited to two screens, which means you have to remember the characters/nations you want to interact with diplomatically and end up doing a lot repeating steps to review multiple screens.

The vassel action that can be a huge pain in the ass is educating your kids/wards.   I find myself wanting 4 screens open so I can compare guardians.  This could be solved if PI has another layer of sorting on the character screen used to compare 2-4 characters.

All in all though I'm actually very much enjoying the game.  Unless there are some major bugs hidden toward the end game, PI has released a fairly polished game this go around.

QuoteOne of the issues with the UI is that you are limited in the number of windows that can be open at one time.

Have you hosted a summer fair yet? OMG, the game pops up like 4 windows at a time for the span of a few months. I like all the cool events, but having to decide four different things and getting several different hits to rep or stats can be a real pain, especially if you haven't been thinking about your King's traits in a while.

QuoteThe vassel action that can be a huge pain in the ass is educating your kids/wards

I can't agree more. I was really ticked off when I kept getting spammed by potential educators. I don't know what that spam is all about either, the decisions don't seem to do anything - so I wonder if they are just trying to remind you "hey, I could educator your kids!" But it always seemed like the guys were disloyal vassals, so the last thing I wanted to do was to foster my children in their court!

QuoteUnless there are some major bugs hidden toward the end game, PI has released a fairly polished game this go around.

I agree. I had a CTD last night, but I am 98% sure that it was actually windows deciding it wanted to update and restarting my computer without permission (and not CKII). I'm not really big on the constant chiming mailbox and the mail I get seems to be rather unimportant (and it will forget to notify me of a death of a vassal and a revolt). I have noticed that the character browser doesn't always update immediately. If you used it to open up a character's menu and promote them to count (for instance) then the pic won't be of a count until you open and close it again. I had a vassal die and he stayed in the character browser for a while until it "refreshed." Don't know if that is a "bug" per se, but it was a little strange.

Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 16, 2012, 04:27:09 PM

QuoteOne of the issues with the UI is that you are limited in the number of windows that can be open at one time.

Have you hosted a summer fair yet? OMG, the game pops up like 4 windows at a time for the span of a few months. I like all the cool events, but having to decide four different things and getting several different hits to rep or stats can be a real pain, especially if you haven't been thinking about your King's traits in a while.

Yeah, but I just talking strictly the vassel screens.  You are generally limited to 2 screens.  You can get a 3d screen that will list character options.  However if you want to look at one of the characters in detail you lose the other 2 screens once you open the detailed character screen.  If that make any sense.

I have put about 30 or more hours into the game at this point, and I am extremely impressed.

Clearly the best Paradox release in terms of game state, stability, polish, etc.

I am no Medievalist like SoM, but I am having a blast, still on my first game just made it to 1150.  Started as William DeCrepon, Count of Hereford, and from there, have led my family to the titles of Duke of Hereford, Duke of Gloucester, Duke of Somerset, and now finally, Duke of York.  Through a number of strategic marriages, was able to get the King of England as my son in law, and another King as Uncle.  Fabricated claims on Somerset, then did two assasinations to put the Duchy in the hands of an infant girl, then made my move while the King was out on Crusade, and took the lands and title.  Have already seen three English Civil Wars in the aftermath of the death of William the Conqueror and his heirs, as the Dukes very realistically fought to reduce the Absolute Crown Law authority that William had established.  In one contest, I actually declared war on my Leige, William II 'the Unready' (the game gave him this moniker) with the war goal of putting my own candidate on the throne.  As The Unready was already at war with several other dukes, as well as my ally through marriage the King of France, my candidate, young Prince Tancred, 3rd in the successon, was eventually installed, and Tancred (later 'The Apostle') rewarded me with the appointment of Marshal of England.  (Tancred later developed the trait 'homosexual' which left him no heir, and as marshal, I had to repeatedly come to his aid to fight off would be claimants)

As my characters have had high martial skill, they are often in the forefront of combat, and many have been wounded, or maimed, and two of my lieges actually ended up being completely incapacitated by their injuries, the realm run by a regent, all very realistic.  Thankfully the deCrepons are a fertile bunch, and I have had to banish/execute/assasinate more heirs to get the right guy in place, as opposed to worrying about my line dying out.

Right now, in a strange twist of fate, I am the Spymaster of England, and sworn vassal of the King, and at war with my own wife because of it.  I married the Duchess of Anjou, whereby I get the claim on York, and the title passes to my son Thomas, now an infant.  But my wife the Duchess has started her own Yorkist/Angevin rebellion against the King, and I am now leading my troops in the field against her Yorkists and Frenchmen, defending Warwick and Winchester against attacks led by my own wife's forces, in defense of my own King.  Thanks to that bitch, I have now received maiming wounds in battle at age 22, which means that the incapacitating wound might not be far away, which will likely be the end of me.  Thankfully, I have a son set to inherit it all, plus her realms, and the game doesnt seem to let you linger on very long as a vegetable, so if I do get permanently knocked out, it will likely be merciful short and Thomas' regent can take over.  Of course, his regent will be my brother, who desires the realm himself, and unlike Thomas, does not have the rights to York . . . .

This kind of drama really sets the game apart from other empire builders, and really adds a very strong RPG element.  Plus, you get tech researching, dozens of building decisions to improve your realm, military action, spy/subterfuge/plots, an occasional Crusade, and numerous random events from fairs to hunts to great feasts to spice it up further.  So far, this really is a game I find it hard to break away from, want to play until 3 a.m., and cant wait to get back to.

Overall, I give it a 9/10 in its release state, one of the best games of the past several years.  While it initially takes some study to get in to and learn all the differnt things you can do, managing your realm, vassals, and dynasty, once you break the learning curve barrier, it all makes sense and is not WITPAE level difficult at all.  In my above game, I made countless mistakes, learned many things along the way that I wasnt doing right, or neglected to do, and still had a blast, managed to keep my dynasty alive, and even prosper.

Three things I think could be improved upon in a patch/expansion would be as follows:

1.  It is too easy to get the most talented courtiers in Europe to come to your dynasty's service through arranging matrilineal marriages.  The willingness of courtiers to accept matrilineal marriages to anyone other than female blood members of your own dynasty should be adjusted way down.
2.  There is ample room for more events and intrigue to be added, through modding or expansion, and the sky really is the limit.
3.  The religion part of the game can and should be expanded out further. Right now, you have excommunications, papal divorce grants, Cathar and other heresies appearing in your lands, the ability to do inquisitions, and papal crusades.  While all of these things are good, I think they need to be fleshed out and made more important than they currently seem to be in my game.

Finally, as a footnote, the interface, graphics, music and atmosphere are all top notch.  Stability seems rock solid, I have had no CTDs whatsoever.

Paradox has done an excellent job with this one, and all of the very valid criticisms of past releases such as HOI III and Vicky II must have had an impact and been listened to by Johan and company, as I see none of those problems there.

Great write-up Hancock!

Quote from: W.S. Hancock(Tancred later developed the trait 'homosexual' which left him no heir, and as marshal, I had to repeatedly come to his aid to fight off would be claimants)

Boy I hate it when that happens, the sudden onset of the trait of homosexuality...  ;)

QuoteOverall, I give it a 9/10 in its release state, one of the best games of the past several years.

I totally agree!

I also agree with your three "weak points" - more events, more religious strife, more... well.. everything!

One criticism I have is that it might be a tad bit too easy to assassinate. Read my story below for more on that...

Well, it's been interesting for Charles I of Anjou, King of Sicily.

In a divergence from history, my Charles managed to avoid the Sicilian Vespers and keep control of a content Sicily (four counties) under his direct rule. I partitioned parts of the lower Italian boot to various vassals and had most of them rather pleased with me. A few Prince-Bishops still bore grudges against me, but it was relatively smooth sailing.

I managed to marry Charles II, the lame, to his historical bride Maria of Hungary, the third daughter of King Steven of Hungary (whose reign I expedited through a knife to his father's back). My second son, Phillippe was given the Duchy of Anjou and seemed content. At some point Pisa lost control of Sardinia to the heathen Moors from North Africa, and - being the faithful steward of Christianity that I am, I vowed to liberate these Christian lands from Moorish perfidy (declarations of holy war against Islamic and other non-Christian foes do not require a Causus Belli or a claim on the territory). The Sultanate of Africa was wracked with rebellion and war and I called upon my ally and brother Louis IX of France to aid me in the fight. It was a quick war and within the year the Sultan offered me control of the counties. I formed the Duchy of Sardinia (including Corsica) and gave control of the Duchy to my heir, Charles II.

In an effort to become a man exalted among men (get 1000 prestige), I hosted a great hunt. Unfortunately, wolves attacked and I was permanently maimed and temporarily wounded. It was a great failure, but the fortitude of this monarch is strong, and time will erase the wounds, and I will fight on despite the maimed leg. About this time, I noticed some discontent stirring in the dynasty. The younger child Phillipe was well known to be a maniacal schemer and he had hired the services of an efficient and ruthless spymaster. Tucked away in his castle in Anjou, he sent out assassins to remove his brother, the heir apparent, and his brother's son (named Phillipe at his birth, in honor of his uncle and would-be slayer). Phillipe clearly wanted the throne of Naples and would not be content with inheriting my titles of Duke of Anjou and Duke of Province. (NOTE: Actually Phillipe succeeded multiple times in murdering his nephew AND his brother. The first time it happened, I had no idea what was going on and reloaded, thinking that I had done something myself to get both of them killed. The event text decided it would not tell me about my grandson's death, so I was ignorant of it for quite some time. The next time I realized what was going on, and as I am trying to play a semi-historical game - I want Charles to get the throne as it was in history - I reloaded again and tried to prevent this.) Thankfully my spymaster, who I sent to protect my son and grandson from plots, caught the assassins trying to kill my grandson and informed me of the worst - it was my other son who was the culprit. Heartbroken, but unable to tolerate such a gross act of cruelty, I sent my bailiffs to arrest my second son.

Phillipe, however, would not be so easily taken. He escaped from the castle moments before the guard arrived and rallied his counties' forces in rebellion against me! Charging his older brother with the task of raising troops against the rebels, he solemnly rode to fight, brother-against-brother in the cold northern lands of Maine. My troops boarded boots drawn from Sicilian cities and went the long way through Gibraltar, up the Atlantic and disembarked from the bay of Biscay. It was a long siege of two well fortified counties. During this time, a few upstart counts in Italy decided to take advantage of my divided attention to declare independence, and I was forced to hire mercenaries to crush them. After about a year, the Italian rebels and my younger son capitulated - being sent to prisons in Naples to await my judgement.

I did not have time to judge the deeds of my younger son. Languishing in prison, he was found dead a mere few months later. It was always rumored that his older brother had repaid Phillipe's treachery in kind, succeeding against him where the older Phillipe's attempt against Charles's son had failed. But I was too heartbroken at the affair to see it, or to imprison my only remaining son for an understandable act of vengeance.

Good sized patch put out today.  Lot's of little fixes.

You guys are really making it harder not to buy this game.

Once you get attached to your characters, the game gets much more interesting.  Until that happens, it's just a list of names with numbers.

Huge tip - do not assign landed titles of major import to second or third sons.

I have found that, if I keep the second sons in my court, I can make sure they do not assassinate my heirs by keeping my spymaster in the capital to uncover plots (which is basically the best thing to have him doing, as a default, unless you need to assassinate someone or spy on a province). If you grant second and third sons a duchy (which would have been common in medieval kingdoms), they will have enough revenue to "spam" assassins toward those that stand in-between them and the throne. I tested this out and the difference is stark (but not Eddard Stark) - in one game where I gave my sons comparable duchies, the second one killed off his brother and his brother's son. I reloaded to before I assigned the duchies, only assigned one to my eldest and heir - no assassin spam.

This really isn't a "bug" per se, although i think that the assassinate option is a little overpowered.

Also, my ruler contracted Syphilis after a Grand Tournament. Being a syphilitic hunchback makes him really unpopular with the ladies.

I've been hearing assassination is both too frequent and overpowered (especially among non-heirs, as you said).  I don't suppose the new patch addresses this at all, does it? 

Well hopefully they address it sooner and better than they did with EU Rome.  The assassination frequency was really a game breaker for a long time and was really never fully resolved.

Quote from: Martok on February 18, 2012, 04:04:11 PM
I've been hearing assassination is both too frequent and overpowered (especially among non-heirs, as you said).  I don't suppose the new patch addresses this at all, does it?

It looks like it doesn't succeed as frequently as it did before. But, with enough money and a complete lack of caring if you are caught, you can simply hit the assassinate button until you get a hit. They probably need to make the penalty for getting caught a Casus Belli (if you catch a person in your own realm, you can imprison them). I'm not sure how to handle it, frankly. In CK 1, it was too hard and too expensive to make it a viable option. But making it too easy and too cheap leads to the sudden death of an entire family over a month's time. I suppose you could add a "cool down" (like after a failed attempt, the target steps up the guard patrols) or make subsequent attempts after a failure drop to a very low success rate.

Can someone explain to me Matrilinear Marriage and how it is used to one's advantage?

I bought and dld the game while I slept last night.  ( I could not resist any longer)  So as long as I don't get called into work today my entire day off is shot :)

Quote from: jomni on February 22, 2012, 02:39:01 AM
Can someone explain to me Matrilinear Marriage and how it is used to one's advantage?

Yes. I can.


Oh.. you mean you WANT me to explain it, now?  ;)

Matrilinear Marriage is a somewhat ahistorical game element where the man getting married takes the dynastic name of the woman, rather than the standard marriage where the woman married into the dynasty of the man.

Why would you want to do this? Let's say that I am playing Queen Joan of Naples, of the d'Anjou dynasty. At some point, she is unmarried and the dynastic head of the d'Anjou dynasty. If I were to arrange a marriage with James of Majorca, who is of the Barcelona dynasty (just an example), then my monarch would become the Barcelona dynasty and their children would be of the Barcelona dynasty - thus ending my line and my game (at least I think, I haven't had this happen yet). Instead, I could use the matrilinear marriage to bring James into my dynasty - thus saving my line (and the Children would be of the d'Anjou name).

You can also use this to bring lower level nobility into the family without losing a sister or something to a foreign dynasty. This is a bit "gamey" but a choice you can make. I do think it is harder to convince a noble to agree to matrilinear marriage.

Thanks.  Oh my, I missed several opportunities to take advantage of this feature.

Pretty stellar review at RPS:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/23/wot-i-think-crusader-kings-ii/#more-95722

Hehe.  I have a son who's homosexual (-15% fertility) but is lustful (+20%).  No, he does not lust for boys. Net effect is +5% fertility so he can still have children.  He must be bisexual.  What's interesting as well is that this particular son was married to the princes of the Bizantine Empire.  The princess eventually died.  So I got him married to the princess of France.  Not bad for an Italian count's son.

I've had a couple still making children till they were 60 years old.  Is this common?  Or just lucky?
I was wondering if age is in the fertility equation which degrades through time or it's just a hidden stat rating.

Quote from: jomni on February 24, 2012, 06:51:32 PM
I've had a couple still making children till they were 60 years old.  Is this common?  Or just lucky?
I was wondering if age is in the fertility equation which degrades through time or it's just a hidden stat rating.

Yes, old age will factor into fertility.

Although I believe the female should've hit menopause by then, it may well be random (that would be ideal).

Blessings from God, high piety? Hehe.  Ok.  I guess I was lucky.  Generations after, we're hard pressed for kids.  Looks like the probability curve has normalized itself.

And I now have a vertically challenged (midget) gene being passed around the dynasty.
Being a small ruler is bad, you take a big hit in other's opinion of you and need to make up from other traits or actions. With low opinion everywhere, striking any kind of deal is hard.  Is this how Napoleon felt?

Quote from: jomni on February 27, 2012, 08:43:09 PM
Blessings from God, high piety? Hehe.  Ok.  I guess I was lucky.  Generations after, we're hard pressed for kids.  Looks like the probability curve has normalized itself.

And I now have a vertically challenged (midget) gene being passed around the dynasty.
Being a small ruler is bad, you take a big hit in other's opinion of you and need to make up from other traits or actions. With low opinion everywhere, striking any kind of deal is hard.  Is this how Napoleon felt?

Charlemagne's father was a midget.  Don't worry, you can bounce back (we hope)!  :P

Quote from: jomni on February 27, 2012, 08:43:09 PM
Blessings from God, high piety? Hehe.  Ok.  I guess I was lucky.  Generations after, we're hard pressed for kids.  Looks like the probability curve has normalized itself.

And I now have a vertically challenged (midget) gene being passed around the dynasty.
Being a small ruler is bad, you take a big hit in other's opinion of you and need to make up from other traits or actions. With low opinion everywhere, striking any kind of deal is hard.  Is this how Napoleon felt?

Napoleon was my height, about 5'7''. What are you saying about me...  :P

Yeah, Pippin the Short was supposed to be... well... short. Also, think of poor Tyrion Lannister from A Game of Thrones - the smartest character but also the one most picked on.

The traits have a huge impact. My syphilitic hunchback got a giant hit to rep against women, and that made it very difficult for him when female vassals popped up. Let's just say I had a lot of women in my dungeons.

My current monarch has been reigning for 49 years!! He is set to have his 40 year old grandson (who happens to be 1/2 Mongol) take over the throne of Sicily and Africa (we conquered a large part of North Africa). My monarch is well loved, with a high diplomacy skill (in the 20s with no modifiers) and this has allowed him to raise crown authority to High and Feudal levies to Maximum. I also changed the inheritance law to Primogeniture, rather than Gavelkind - which would have split my duchies and kingdoms between several of my heirs. No way I was going to let all my work break apart like that! I fear when my less likeable grandson takes the throne (who gained the trait kinslayer for assassinating his own brother) the crown authority and feudal levies will create an issue. We will see if he can hold it together.

One thing worries me. I've been playing this game since before the patch and did not want to restart. So I wonder if the patch created some weird behavior (it said it MIGHT). I have the Golden Horde ruling Genoa, Portugal conquered nearly all of Spain, and France is fractured into bits. Hard to say if this is normal or a product of patching weirdness.

Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 28, 2012, 11:03:38 AMLet's just say I had a lot of women in my dungeons.

Are you sure you want to be bragging about that on the internet?

Quote from: LongBlade on February 28, 2012, 11:14:42 AM

Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 28, 2012, 11:03:38 AMLet's just say I had a lot of women in my dungeons.

Are you sure you want to be bragging about that on the internet?

I already said I was a syphilitic hunchback... can it get much worse?

ah man...so this is where the "wargamer" crowd is hangin' out now. Its like finding the cool kids school bathroom where you could smoke cigarettes 8).....


anyway,
Why would I want to give a grant of land to an heir? would it only apply if I was over my demesne limit or is there another reason? seems like I would be breaking up my duchy.  I asked in the paradox forum but it got lost in the shuffle and derailed.

Quote from: mikeck on February 28, 2012, 01:44:03 PM
ah man...so this is where the "wargamer" crowd is hangin' out now. Its like finding the cool kids school bathroom where you could smoke cigarettes 8).....

Heya, Mike! Welcome!

Quote from: mikeck on February 28, 2012, 01:44:03 PM
ah man...so this is where the "wargamer" crowd is hangin' out now. Its like finding the cool kids school bathroom where you could smoke cigarettes 8).....


anyway,
Why would I want to give a grant of land to an heir? would it only apply if I was over my demesne limit or is there another reason? seems like I would be breaking up my duchy.  I asked in the paradox forum but it got lost in the shuffle and derailed.

I think some of the people here clearly smoke something stronger than cigs...  ;)

There are several reasons you might have to grant land to an heir. First, the demesne score, as you noted. If you have an inheritance law other than Gavelkind (which partitions your kingdom among your heirs), then you will take a prestige penalty for each of your male children not assigned a title (or shunted off into the Church). This is particularly notable with primogeniture or seniority style inheritance laws.

Further, your heirs will, typically, directly request the grant of a landed titles through an event. You can deny them (risks negative rep hits and worse events), you can promise to give them something (and should follow through before you get additional events) or you can tell them they are destined for the Church (which I haven't done).

Also, giving titles to your direct heir will keep the title within the dynasty while still lowering your demesne score. That can be helpful if you want to make sure that, upon your current monarch's death, that this parcel of land remains under your control (and doesn't revolt or break off). This is less of a problem if you managed to up you crown authority to prevent titles from leaving your kingdom.

Quote from: mikeck on February 28, 2012, 01:44:03 PM
ah man...so this is where the "wargamer" crowd is hangin' out now. Its like finding the cool kids school bathroom where you could smoke cigarettes 8).....

Mike...great to see you posting here.  Welcome!

I've read in a couple places that empires are perhaps a bit too strong, that their lands stick together too easily.  What's your guys' experience been in this regard? 

Quote from: mikeck on February 28, 2012, 01:44:03 PM

ah man...so this is where the "wargamer" crowd is hangin' out now. Its like finding the cool kids school bathroom where you could smoke cigarettes 8).....

Heya, mikeck!  Glad you made it! 

You guys couldnt hide forever.

Anyway, I love this game but it really makes me long for the old "commodor 64" games that came with the big instruction book and maps. I could use some direction on what choices do as opposed to the mechanics of making them. Oh well, trial and error.

Quote from: mikeck on February 28, 2012, 06:47:00 PM
You guys couldnt hide forever.

We weren't hiding - more like beta testing. We're close to removing the curtain.

OTOH, it's no secret. If you have friends who aren't here feel free to invite them.

Quote from: Martok on February 28, 2012, 06:13:48 PM
I've read in a couple places that empires are perhaps a bit too strong, that their lands stick together too easily.  What's your guys' experience been in this regard? 


I usually see a Duke or two in the HRE get split quickly after game start due to wars against crown authority .   It seems to happen more slowly with Byzantium, if anytime soon at all. We're talking AI empires right?  Player empires, well that depends on how much the player's vassals hate him huh?  :)

Quote from: LongBlade on February 28, 2012, 06:50:05 PM

Quote from: mikeck on February 28, 2012, 06:47:00 PM
You guys couldnt hide forever.

We weren't hiding - more like beta testing. We're close to removing the curtain.

OTOH, it's no secret. If you have friends who aren't here feel free to invite them.

Nah....I was just joking. Truthfully, I'm just happy to have a forum I can post on from my Android phone....couldn't do it on the Wargamer.

SoM....thanks for the info. I will try to dish out some titles. I'm stuck with gavelkind for now so not sure if I can keep my duchy together without killing off a few kids.

Quote from: mikeck on February 28, 2012, 07:27:40 PM
Nah....I was just joking. Truthfully, I'm just happy to have a forum I can post on from my Android phone....couldn't do it on the Wargamer.

We are extremely pleased with the forum software thus far. As of yet, we haven't found an OS that doesn't work on it. I've used my Kindle, guys have used iOS, PCs...if it has a browser, it seems to work. :)

Have to completely agree...of the boards I visit the most, this has to be the most easy forum software to use and works on all my devices without any issues.  Really pleased with it so far.

Quote from: mikeck on February 28, 2012, 07:27:40 PM

Quote from: LongBlade on February 28, 2012, 06:50:05 PM

Quote from: mikeck on February 28, 2012, 06:47:00 PM
You guys couldnt hide forever.

We weren't hiding - more like beta testing. We're close to removing the curtain.

OTOH, it's no secret. If you have friends who aren't here feel free to invite them.

Nah....I was just joking. Truthfully, I'm just happy to have a forum I can post on from my Android phone....couldn't do it on the Wargamer.

SoM....thanks for the info. I will try to dish out some titles. I'm stuck with gavelkind for now so not sure if I can keep my duchy together without killing off a few kids.

Mike,

With Gavelkind there is less reason to divvy up the kingdom. You will see a little "tooltip" thing at the top that will tell you what titles will automatically be assigned to your family upon the monarch's death. You really can't do anything about that, unless you change succession laws. Granting them new titles will not change the ones assigned to them by the Gavelkind succession, which I think is sort of silly. Monarchs typically had a hand in which parts of the kingdom their sons inherited.

Be wary, when you grant your kids new titles they leave your court (so marry them off first) and they suddenly get an influx of cash. That leads to some heavy hitting assassination attempts against one another. To prevent this, I left some of the heirs in the capital for as long as I could and watched them like hawks. With little income, they have little change to hire assassins. If they draw large incomes, they will try killing a path to the throne.

You can also wait for your sons to gain a goal of becoming one of your specific ministers, and appoint him temporarily to it.  This will give him a relations bonus with you (kids love trying to kill their father sometimes huh?) and also give  +1 to the relevant stat of the minister position when that goal is fulfilled.  If his rating is crappy, just replace him later (although he'll be rather unhappy for awhile so be careful).

Oh now I have twins (boy and girl). First time this happened to me in the game.

I'll tell you what i love....its the inheretence and learning of various traits.  I sent my young daughter off to be educated by a random minister (I think my Spymaster)  I didnt know at the time that the child could adopt his traits.  10 years later (once I knew to look at that stuff as I hadnt been paying attention) I had a little "Queen Cersei". She was "a schemer", "lustfull" and "cruel" . Two learned from my Spy master (lustfull came from me genticaly I believe??).

Unfortunately, I had already gained a son by the time I realized and he will take my lands as I have A/C gavelkind.  Hell, I may just kill my son so she can take charge!

I tried very hard not to buy this game.  I'm not much of a console gamer, but I do enjoy Mass Effect, and Mass Effect 3 is coming out so soon that I figured I would just wait on CK2 for a bit.

Anyhow I'd been playing the demo and....I couldn't take it anymore....the game is downloading now.  :)

Just the little nuances and stories I played through in the demo were enough to get me to pull the trigger.

Quote from: republic on February 29, 2012, 04:06:45 PM
I tried very hard not to buy this game.  I'm not much of a console gamer, but I do enjoy Mass Effect, and Mass Effect 3 is coming out so soon that I figured I would just wait on CK2 for a bit.

Anyhow I'd been playing the demo and....I couldn't take it anymore....the game is downloading now.  :)

Just the little nuances and stories I played through in the demo were enough to get me to pull the trigger.

The game is fantastic.  I am thoroughly hooked...which surprises the heck out of me considering I only found the original somewhat interesting.  Paradox really slammed it out of the park with this one.

Still...holding...on... 

Quote from: RooksBailey on February 29, 2012, 09:41:20 PM

The game is fantastic.  I am thoroughly hooked...which surprises the heck out of me considering I only found the original somewhat interesting.  Paradox really slammed it out of the park with this one.

RooksBailey!  Fancy meeting you here.  Glad you made it! 

Quote from: Martok on March 01, 2012, 03:57:30 PM
Still...holding...on... 

Quote from: RooksBailey on February 29, 2012, 09:41:20 PM

The game is fantastic.  I am thoroughly hooked...which surprises the heck out of me considering I only found the original somewhat interesting.  Paradox really slammed it out of the park with this one.

RooksBailey!  Fancy meeting you here.  Glad you made it!

+1

Welcome!

Thanks for the welcome, guys!  SoccerDJ put me on your trail.   :)  I really like what you guys are doing with this site.  Best of luck!

Quote from: RooksBailey on March 01, 2012, 04:08:52 PM
Thanks for the welcome, guys!  SoccerDJ put me on your trail.   :)  I really like what you guys are doing with this site.  Best of luck!

Thanks. We just published our first article on the front page: http://grogheads.com/articles/aar-shogun2.html

Just make sure feedback about it goes into the Feedback board so it doesn't get lost/fragmented: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?board=18.0

Quote from: RooksBailey on March 01, 2012, 04:08:52 PM
Thanks for the welcome, guys!  SoccerDJ put me on your trail.   :)  I really like what you guys are doing with this site.  Best of luck!

Glad you made it over, as you can see I've slimmed down my online handle.  I wasn't quite ready for a complete break, then nobody would know who I was.

Quote from: SCDJ on March 01, 2012, 07:20:19 PM
Glad you made it over, as you can see I've slimmed down my online handle.  I wasn't quite ready for a complete break, then nobody would know who I was.

If you want to change it, LMK. It's not difficult for me to do.

And you can always put an "aka SoccerDJ" in your footer. I've seen guys do that before.

Of course, they get ridiculed heavily for doing it, but that up to you ;)

Interesting post on the development of CK2 over at Paradox:

Crusader Kings II - Post Mortem Dev Diary (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?889-Crusader-Kings-II-Post-Mortem-Dev-Diary)

Found this interesting.  What was cut:

QuoteSo what did we cut from Crusader Kings II? Basically, this:

    A medieval style chronicle with annual entries
    Trade post holdings built by the republics (Venice, Genoa, etc)
    Hiring ships from the great republics
    Relics that can be found, looted, and used to build cathedrals
    Loads of very rare narrative events (like "The Gates of Hell") with multi-generational effects
    A viceroy/drots/great seneschal council position for each kingdom held
    Cadet branches of dynasties
    Adventures - younger sons raising an army and going off to conquer something on their own

But what is planned as DLC and patching:

QuoteSo, what are we planning for the future? Crusader Kings II will have many major DLC packs that are actually more like small expansions. Every time we release a major DLC, we will also release a major free content patch. I cannot say exactly when we will be adding what, but here are some things you can expect for free in the coming months:

    Enhanced, more focused Crusades with a "contribution" score
    Causes of Death
    Asking to join an ongoing war
    Lots of more plots and ambitions
    Events, events, and more events
    Improved GUI where it's needed the most (plots, marriages)
    Flexible de jure liege structure
    More de jure kingdoms

Sounds good!  I am particularly glad to hear about causes of death.  I hate it when people just drop dead for no apparent reason.  >:(

Quote from: LongBlade on March 02, 2012, 09:02:21 AM

Quote from: SCDJ on March 01, 2012, 07:20:19 PM
Glad you made it over, as you can see I've slimmed down my online handle.  I wasn't quite ready for a complete break, then nobody would know who I was.

If you want to change it, LMK. It's not difficult for me to do.

And you can always put an "aka SoccerDJ" in your footer. I've seen guys do that before.

Of course, they get ridiculed heavily for doing it, but that up to you ;)

Thanks but I am good I wanted to go with something totally different for this forum but I couldn't come up with anything good so I just shortened my existing name. 

Crusader Kings 2 is better than watching a drama series on TV.  Here is what has happened tonight.

I began as Isleifur Duke of Iceland. I had one son, and neither of us had a wife. I was 62 years old, I assume mine died. As soon as the game starts I arrange for my son to marry a Hungarian princess. Putting him in the line of succession in Hungary, and gaining him much prestige by marrying up.

Then I arranged for myself to marry a French Duke's daughter.

My son has a daughter.

I died of old age.  I (now as my son) name my daughter as heir, to become Dutchess of Iceland. A few weeks later, it is discovered that my dad's widow was with child when he died!

I name my wife as chief spymaster, because it was her life's ambition and she was quite skilled.  My daughter the heir is old enough to be tutored. I choose to tutor her myself.

My daughter gains several positive traits under my tootlage. A few years later my wife (the spymaster) discovers my dads widow plots to kill our daughter so that my sister born after my fathers death can be the heir!

This game is good fun  :)  And is going well as I just happen to be reading the Game of Thrones series

Quote from: republic on March 03, 2012, 09:48:47 PM
Crusader Kings 2 is better than watching a drama series on TV.  Here is what has happened tonight.

I began as Isleifur Duke of Iceland. I had one son, and neither of us had a wife. I was 62 years old, I assume mine died. As soon as the game starts I arrange for my son to marry a Hungarian princess. Putting him in the line of succession in Hungary, and gaining him much prestige by marrying up.

Then I arranged for myself to marry a French Duke's daughter.

My son has a daughter.

I died of old age.  I (now as my son) name my daughter as heir, to become Dutchess of Iceland. A few weeks later, it is discovered that my dad's widow was with child when he died!

I name my wife as chief spymaster, because it was her life's ambition and she was quite skilled.  My daughter the heir is old enough to be tutored. I choose to tutor her myself.

My daughter gains several positive traits under my tootlage. A few years later my wife (the spymaster) discovers my dads widow plots to kill our daughter so that my sister born after my fathers death can be the heir!

What is so amazing is that stories like this are common!  I've been chronicling my game here (http://forums.gamesquad.com/entry.php?1163-The-Chronicle-of-Duke-Aengus-I-of-Moray) (albeit, I have stopped for the moment because of my distraction with the Sins beta  :) ) and am amazed at the various turn of events when I go back and re-read it.  Like I wrote in my review, Paradox has reminded me just what PC gaming can be all about.  Skyrim might be getting all the attention, but I think Crusader Kings 2 deserves the same red carpet treatment. 

BTW:  just to update my campaign:  King Archibald had a 10 year reign where he extended Scottish territory quite a bit.  Then he suddenly fell ill and died.  Since he had no sons (but six! daughters), his brother, who was a councilor to a Norwegian princess (I deliberately married him off to the Norwegians to get him out of Scotland as he was always after the throne  ;D) rushed back to Scotland and took the throne.  Because he was a brother and not a son, my southern vassals rebelled, as well as my brother's daughter (i.e., my niece) who demanded 1/2 of my domain.  As I was so busy with my rebelling vassals - there were so many that but for help from some mercenaries, I would have most likely lost the throne  - I agreed to give my niece what she wanted...but this isn't over yet.  >:(  Now I have the rebellion just about under control, with two of the ring leaders in prison (one will surely be executed as an example).  I found it amusing that the first rebel, after losing two battles, immediately asked for a white peace even though the war was just getting started.  I agreed naturally, because it let me take on the other two or three rebels.  Long short - the guy that started the rebellion bailed out at the first opportunity, leaving the other two to take the blame.   ;D  I admired that...albeit, once things quiet down, my men are going to be knocking on his door anyway. 

What an incredible game.  And it is only going to get better with that Paradox has planned.

QuoteThis game is good fun  :)  And is going well as I just happen to be reading the Game of Thrones series

Critical mass!  ;)

Damn it, you guys are doing nothing for my willpower.  I'm holding on by my fingernails here... 

Quote from: Martok on March 04, 2012, 01:35:53 AM
Damn it, you guys are doing nothing for my willpower.  I'm holding on by my fingernails here...

Seriously though... if you are talking grand strategy games, I would say Crusader Kings II is the best I've ever played. And it is probably one of my top 10 games of all time. Not to give away the crux of my upcoming review.  ;)

Oh... and the Gamersgate version does not require Steam. So... if you can get over your need for a physical CD... it's a no-brainer.

Quote from: Martok on March 04, 2012, 01:35:53 AM
Damn it, you guys are doing nothing for my willpower.  I'm holding on by my fingernails here...

Only a matter of time, now!

8)

Quote from: son_of_montfort on March 04, 2012, 11:25:42 AM

Seriously though... if you are talking grand strategy games, I would say Crusader Kings II is the best I've ever played.

I agree.  It's in the same league as Civ 4.  It's really a great game. 

I don't consider CKII as grand strategy.

Quote from: jomni on March 04, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
I don't consider CKII as grand strategy.

?? Ok. What do you consider it?

It is mainly a dynastic simulation. But the strategy is pretty grand!

Role playing. Lol! 

Actually, that is probably true.

I call it "Role Playing" because I can't think (strategize) beyond a generation.  Too many what ifs and too many constraints with regards to expansion.  And most of the stuff is quite reactionary rather than grand pre-planning.

Maybe playing King, it becomes more strategic with empire management.  But I don't play that level yet.


So here are newb questions:

How to increase my rank?  I am a lowly count.  How do I become a duke?  I know it happens when I gain all lands that form a Duchy?  I can claim neighboring provinces but my realm does not want me to start any fights.

I am actually playing a Count under the Papacy and my boss is the Pope.  How can one be Pope? Lol!  I guess that's dynastic suicide since Popes don't marry (or am I wrong).

Finally, I have yet to inherit land based on succession and diplomatic marriages.   I think this is the way to go.  How to engineer these things?  This is actually the grand strategic part that I haven't mastered.  Is it a matter of getting a family member inside ruling family and killing off heirs?  I'm quite a "good" guy and haven't thought of this yet.

Quote from: jomni on March 05, 2012, 03:13:39 AM
I call it "Role Playing" because I can't think (strategize) beyond a generation.  Too many what ifs and too many constraints with regards to expansion.  And most of the stuff is quite reactionary rather than grand pre-planning.

Maybe playing King, it becomes more strategic with empire management.  But I don't play that level yet.

King and Emperor levels are just lots more vassals to try & keep happy.  So there is a lot more to do in juggling relations.

QuoteSo here are newb questions:

How to increase my rank?  I am a lowly count.  How do I become a duke?  I know it happens when I gain all lands that form a Duchy?  I can claim neighboring provinces but my realm does not want me to start any fights.

When you take half a title's associated lands, or more, you can claim the title with some lavish spending on your part (~190 gold IIRC for a Duchy).  You'll get a pop-up stating you can claim a new title, at the top of the screen, which you can click on to take you to the De Jure Duchy/Kingdom page with the button available on it.  Dropping the money on it will also give you a nice big chunk of sweet sweet Prestige, too.  Note that if someone else is currently holding that title, they'll be rather unhappy with you and generally have a claim on it so watch out for a war. 

If you hold a realm title, but don't hold all it's De Jure counties, then you'll get a claim on them and so be able to declare a war of conquest for them.  So, if you have part of a Duchy and take the title, you'll be able to war for the rest of it.

You can check the De Jure areas with the appropriate map filters, and you can also see a list of everyone with a claim on any 'de jure' county/duchy/etc by clicking on a county within it and then clicking on the county's coat of arms.  That page will have a button to show a list of "Claimants", and will be blue if there are any (and it's clickable).  You can navigate through more of these pages going up or down on the totem pole (such as County-to-Duchy-to-Kingdom level) by once again clicking on the appropriate coat of arms listed. 

If you have a lowly courtier with a claim, you can support their claim by being able to DoW for conquest there too.  When you take your underling's claimed realm, he is installed as ruler with you as his liege.  So you can also shop around and try to find untitled courtiers to lure to your own court, in order to take specific counties with those courtiers' claim.

QuoteI am actually playing a Count under the Papacy and my boss is the Pope.  How can one be Pope? Lol!  I guess that's dynastic suicide since Popes don't marry (or am I wrong).

Players can't be the Pope.  But yes, not having any children would also eliminate you anyway.

QuoteFinally, I have yet to inherit land based on succession and diplomatic marriages.   I think this is the way to go.  How to engineer these things?  This is actually the grand strategic part that I haven't mastered.  Is it a matter of getting a family member inside ruling family and killing off heirs?  I'm quite a "good" guy and haven't thought of this yet.

Yes, you can marry in and then kill off all the male offspring, in order to get the female side to inherit.  But note that you generally want your main heir to be the one profiting from this because if it's one of your heir's brothers, then they'll just leave your court and start their own realm (although it should be allied with you so can still be advantageous).  A popular way of at least getting a better chance at making this stuff happen is to marry a few of your kin into their family and genetically infiltrate them.  With all the assassinations and deaths in wars going on, if you've targeted a demesne with few males, you may end up getting lucky down the road.  In the end - it's mostly luck anyway, unless you take the risks in making it happen (which can be a long shot too).

Playing a Count in the Papal States may not be the most dynamic of games. I have yet to see the Pope declare war to expand his territory and you have no chance of "inheriting" the throne. Also, the size of the realm is too small to have any duchies within it (unless you do the expanding). Italian duchies are small, and won't require too much to create expansion to create the title and usurp, but they also tend to be self-contained, so your "duchy" is probably already fully within your kingdom and ruled by the Pope.

You could try to gobble up some of the independents around you by sending your Chancellor to fabricate claims in nearby counties. Usually after taking one, you will have the 50% de jure right to usurp a larger title and get a casus belli against another county. That might be slow and boring work, however, as you will have to wait until the "press claim" dialog fires and you will likely need to be sure to have around 500 gold to press the claim.

My suggestion would be to restart in a more dynamic kingdom. Something like the count of Toulouse (southern France) in 1100 or 1000. Or maybe a county in Sicily in the Kingdom of Sicily at some point. That way the king will be more active than the pope and you have the chance to play some political games with neighbors also within your kingdom. The kingdom of Leon or Aragon are also fun and dynamic places to be a count.

A heads up from Paradox:

QuoteWe aim to release version 1.04 later this week, probably on Friday.

No word yet on the content.

Quote from: son_of_montfort on March 05, 2012, 11:00:30 AM
Playing a Count in the Papal States may not be the most dynamic of games. I have yet to see the Pope declare war to expand his territory and you have no chance of "inheriting" the throne. Also, the size of the realm is too small to have any duchies within it (unless you do the expanding). Italian duchies are small, and won't require too much to create expansion to create the title and usurp, but they also tend to be self-contained, so your "duchy" is probably already fully within your kingdom and ruled by the Pope.

You could try to gobble up some of the independents around you by sending your Chancellor to fabricate claims in nearby counties. Usually after taking one, you will have the 50% de jure right to usurp a larger title and get a casus belli against another county. That might be slow and boring work, however, as you will have to wait until the "press claim" dialog fires and you will likely need to be sure to have around 500 gold to press the claim.

My suggestion would be to restart in a more dynamic kingdom. Something like the count of Toulouse (southern France) in 1100 or 1000. Or maybe a county in Sicily in the Kingdom of Sicily at some point. That way the king will be more active than the pope and you have the chance to play some political games with neighbors also within your kingdom. The kingdom of Leon or Aragon are also fun and dynamic places to be a count.

Yeah I felt kinda stuck after the 5th generation.  Fabricating claims don't help as I am not able to attack the target provinces because the Pope does not allow me to start wars with independent provinces.  Most of Italy is also under the HRE.  Members break away once in a while but evendually gets gobbled up by the bully. 

I can actually declare war on the Pope!  But that Rome has 3x military power vs mine.

Here's something interesting, one of my characters became Chancellor for the Papacy and I was sent on a mission to fabricate claims.  But the Pope didn't attack the target provice.

It was a good learning position though.  I'm kinda used to the interface and things to do with regards to my dynasty and court.

SoM, if you ever post up your explanation of the vassalage system in CKII, I'd definitely read it.

Looks like a new 1.04 patch released today....plus a tease about the next patch being new content with new DLC...

CHANGE LOG:

MAJOR:
- Revised the Message Setting system
- Religion groups are now marked playable in the religion file (no more hard coded rule)
- AI: Improved marriage acceptance. Smarter about "Desires Better Alliance". Values prestige gain or loss higher.
- Added some useful status info to the delayed character tooltip (similar to the info in debug mode)
- Cooldown added to excommunications (only for the same Pope though)
- Doubled the flanking damage bonus in combat
- Increased the flank leader Martial skill bonus in combat by 50%
- Fixed a CTD that can occur in a rare situation with characters having multiple wars against each other
- Nerfed taxes given by bishops to Anti-Popes by 50%
- Holy Orders now cost maintenance if you're in at least one offensive, non-Crusade war
- Halved all peasant revolt risk factors
- Added an "Isolated County" revolt risk modifier and cut the special events that used to simulate it
- Peasant Army size is now determined by the biggest holding garrison size (so they will always be dangerous)
- The Succession War CBs now have the proper success outcome
- Fixed a bug with the usurpation of titles that would hand over all vassals too
- AI: More wary of expensive assassinations
- AI: Fixed some issues with the correct Casus Belli choice
- AI: Tweaked vassal revolt risk to depend more on ambition from traits
- The duchies of Cornwall and Brittany are now de jure part of the Kingdom of Wales
- Buffed the Caliphates and the Seljuks. Nerfed the Byzantines.
- Added vassal Seljuk mercs; the Ghilman
- Now shows a portrait of the target in available player plots
- Hooked in missing plot icon in available player plots

MINOR:
- Upped the chances of dying due to disease a little bit
- Increased the effects of the genius, quick, slow, imbecile and inbred traits
- Reduced the levy size effect of some of the "recently occupied" modifiers
- Nominated bishops are now properly disinherited at once
- Fixed a bug with the guardian opinion modifiers given when entrusted with a ward
- Combat events will not happen until three days into a combat (to avoid commander deaths and such when overrunning tiny forces)
- When an Anti-Pope is installed in Rome, the old Pope no longer becomes an Anti-Pope
- Waived the opinion penalty for held elector titles for elective duchies and below
- Fixed a CTD issue that could occur in tooltips when hovering over Holding modifiers as they expire
- Vassal mercs can now always be employed by their liege, no matter their religion
- Scaled wealth effects and triggers are now based on nominal peacetime income
- Fixed an error in the opinion warning when banishing characters (not the correct figure.)
- The game will now also auto-generate an appropriate number of traits for children with not enough scripted traits
- Added a text warning/explanation for DoW on a revolter
- Traits are now read from multiple files, facilitating modding
- Fixed an issue with event ids in a namespace
- Fixed an issue with flipping "random god names" tooltips in fire event effect tooltips
- Fixed a bug with the decision 'Demand Duchy from liege' with duke tier lieges (should not be available)
- Fixed a tooltip issue with the "any" type event triggers
- Better tooltips for event triggers 'higher_tier_than' and 'lower_tier_than'
- Re-enabled selection of the same type of plot again for players
- Fixed an issue with save/reload of the last selected plot/ambition
- Fixed an issue with protected inheritance not always working under Gavelkind
- Exported MAX_ELECTOR_TITLES_LEGALLY_HELD to defines
- Exported the max duchies held opinion penalty to defines
- Exported the tax penalty for bishops loyal to the Pope or Anti-Pope to the defines
- The "recently conquered" holding penalties are no longer applied during civil wars or wars between vassals
- AI: Fixed a bug where the AI would grant titles to vassal mercs
- Added 'same_guardian' trigger
- Slightly nerfed William of Normandy's initial army size
- Switched the portraits of Harold and William the Conqueror
- Changed some title colors to conform better to their cultural region
- Added proper history for the Prince-Bishopric of Agen
- The Earl of Atholl is now a _legitimate_ bastard

Next patch is 1.05. It is a major content patch which will be released together with our first big DLC.

Im looking forward to what the DLC holds.

I am enjoying this game alot more then I thought I would!

I thought the first DLC was gonna be more period background music?  I recall there was a vote thread about what kind over at Paradox last year.

Music would be great, that has always been a highlight of the AGEOD games

They actually on the game release day accidentally made two music packs available briefly so no doubt those will come back at some point.  Not sure if that is the DLC they are referring to in the patch notes or something different.

Warning:

If you have 30 or more courtiers, all your characters will start receiving an increasing penalty to pregnancy chance.  I'm sure that was created so the AI wouldn't bog the game down with a bajillion courtiers but it looks to apply to the player also.  So if you're wondering why your overripe child bearing couples aren't kicking out ankle biters, this may be the reason.

This was discussed a bit by players on the forum thus far and I don't know if it's been addressed in this latest update.  I'd rather it be higher, if a player is to have it at all, especially when running a large kingdom.

Hard to make children when you have so many courtiers constantly watching you in bed!

Quote from: son_of_montfort on March 11, 2012, 05:36:27 PM
Hard to make children when you have so many courtiers constantly watching you in bed!

That's always how I consummate an enjoyable night out.   Call the friends, neighbors, and family.  Hope they aren't still plotting your death, as you'll be rather disarmed at the event!

Actually, having courtiers present was a typical way to consummate a medieval marriage ceremony for nobility. If you don't "seal the deal" you can get the marriage annulled. Afterward, well... it takes a lot of political hedging and or lies to get an annulment. So courtiers were your "witnesses" that the deal had been sealed.

Quote from: son_of_montfort on March 14, 2012, 03:39:25 PM
Actually, having courtiers present was a typical way to consummate a medieval marriage ceremony for nobility. If you don't "seal the deal" you can get the marriage annulled. Afterward, well... it takes a lot of political hedging and or lies to get an annulment. So courtiers were your "witnesses" that the deal had been sealed.

Indeed.  I was alluding to that.  Although in CK2 half of them will be trying to kill you.  ;D

Historically half of them probably tried to kill the monarch too!  ;)

Quote from: Greybriar on February 12, 2012, 10:11:32 PM

Quote from: Martok on February 12, 2012, 07:34:54 PM
Well presumably a physical copy purchased direct from their store would still require Steam, so it's just as well you didn't order from them.

That was why I was considering buying both the digital download from GamersGate and the boxed version from the Paradox Webshop. Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 12, 2012, 07:37:05 PM
The 15 percent is off at gamers gate so you should be able to buy from there.  The code from ign is from gg.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check IGN out.

Don't bother with the boxed version. I've just seen it at Game and the box says you need to sign up to Steam to play it. If a Gold version comes out later you will be stuck with your redundant initial investment since in most cases the key code is tied to your account. I'm tempted to rant about Steam and unwanted collateral contracts to your purchase, but is this something you don't already know...?

I have a question for people who play CK2....I purchased a long time ago and through various sales have kept up with a lot of the DLC, but not all of it.  Now looking at things seems like there have been roughly 40 or so DLC made and I know I don't have them all.  Is there an EASY way to look somewhere to identify which DLC I don't own?  I know I can look at the list of available and manually look at my DLC screen in steam, but was hoping there was an easier way to do this.

Thoughts?

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 16, 2014, 07:06:18 AM
I have a question for people who play CK2....I purchased a long time ago and through various sales have kept up with a lot of the DLC, but not all of it.  Now looking at things seems like there have been roughly 40 or so DLC made and I know I don't have them all.  Is there an EASY way to look somewhere to identify which DLC I don't own?  I know I can look at the list of available and manually look at my DLC screen in steam, but was hoping there was an easier way to do this.

Thoughts?

Ignore, decided to just manually go through the list....looks like I am missing about (4) of the DLC, the more recent stuff...next sales I will pick up:)

It's a little bit of a PITA to fully upgrade CKII -- I hope that sometime after release of the Rajas of India expansion, they release some kind of Gold or GOTY edition.

But, it's worth the investment.  The expansions improve the game experience immensely.  The eye candy -- portrait and unit packs -- are a nice if not essential addition.  I bought CKII day it came out -- fiddled with it for a few months, then pretty much dropped it.  I recently decided that I wanted to get back into it, so I bought the expansions, and I literally can't stop playing it at this point...

The only expansion I don't have that I feel I really want is Sons of Abraham...its also the one that has not been on sale anywhere yet. I'm surprised the Old Gods was marked down, but Sons of Abe wasn't...go figure...the one about the Jews doesn't go down in price, and because I am Jewish, I'm too cheap to buy it at full price. Its a viscous circle.

Gamersgate has Sons of Abraham and all of the other DLC on sale this weekend (except for the two newest ones, which will either go on sale when the Indian expansion DLC comes out, or a few months after that).

Sales of CK II material on Gamersgate are frequent and predictable to the extent that I've picked up a lot of the material by using blue coins (the Gamersgate equivalent to Green Stamps).

If you're interested in semi-historical play, what you're passing up is a chance to play the Khazars in the early scenarios.

For those who aren't familiar with the Khazars, the story goes that the reason there were so many blond-haired blue-eyed Jews in the Ukraine is that the Khazars  (who lived in the neighborhood and owned most of the real estate) converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages for the very sensible reason that having just become a world power they needed a major religion.  Converting to Christianity would have put them under the thumb of the Byzantine emperors, and that although Islam was tempting because it was probably the most liberal and enlightened major religion around at the time, the Tsar of the Khazars could not stomach the idea of separating his (soon to become) Russian people from their vodka.

Or at least that is how Alexander Riasanovsky used to explain it in his Russian History classes.

Quote from: Philippe on February 16, 2014, 10:42:39 AM
Gamersgate has Sons of Abraham and all of the other DLC on sale this weekend (except for the two newest ones, which will either go on sale when the Indian expansion DLC comes out, or a few months after that).

Sales of CK II material on Gamersgate are frequent and predictable to the extent that I've picked up a lot of the material by using blue coins (the Gamersgate equivalent to Green Stamps).

If you're interested in semi-historical play, what you're passing up is a chance to play the Khazars in the early scenarios.

For those who aren't familiar with the Khazars, the story goes that the reason there were so many blond-haired blue-eyed Jews in the Ukraine is that the Khazars  (who lived in the neighborhood and owned most of the real estate) converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages for the very sensible reason that having just become a world power they needed a major religion.  Converting to Christianity would have put them under the thumb of the Byzantine emperors, and that although Islam was tempting because it was probably the most liberal and enlightened major religion around at the time, the Tsar of the Khazars could not stomach the idea of separating his (soon to become) Russian people from their vodka.

Or at least that is how Alexander Riasanovsky used to explain it in his Russian History classes.

For me, sons of Abraham showing regular price....

http://www.gamersgate.com/DLC-CK2SA/crusader-kings-ii-sons-of-abraham

I think they may be adjusting the sales items.  There were five pages on sale a couple of hours ago, now I'm only seeing three.  (And yes, SoA nowhere to be found).

Check back in a couple of hours and see if the President's Day sale changes anything.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 16, 2014, 07:06:18 AM
I have a question for people who play CK2....I purchased a long time ago and through various sales have kept up with a lot of the DLC, but not all of it.  Now looking at things seems like there have been roughly 40 or so DLC made and I know I don't have them all.  Is there an EASY way to look somewhere to identify which DLC I don't own?  I know I can look at the list of available and manually look at my DLC screen in steam, but was hoping there was an easier way to do this.

Thoughts?

I occasionally go through and add all the DLC to my steam cart, then remove the ones it says I have.

Quote from: sandman2575 on February 16, 2014, 08:52:39 AM
It's a little bit of a PITA to fully upgrade CKII -- I hope that sometime after release of the Rajas of India expansion, they release some kind of Gold or GOTY edition.

GOTY edition probably isn't likely anytime soon. From the various hints they keep dropping, they still have further DLC plans for CK2. They do have the CK2 collection which has all the DLC except whatever the newest happens to be. But if you already own the game then its not very helpful.

CK2 regularly goes on sale everywhere. At this point its almost on sale every other week on Steam.

Quote from: Philippe on February 16, 2014, 10:42:39 AM
Gamersgate has Sons of Abraham and all of the other DLC on sale this weekend (except for the two newest ones, which will either go on sale when the Indian expansion DLC comes out, or a few months after that).

Sales of CK II material on Gamersgate are frequent and predictable to the extent that I've picked up a lot of the material by using blue coins (the Gamersgate equivalent to Green Stamps).

If you're interested in semi-historical play, what you're passing up is a chance to play the Khazars in the early scenarios.

For those who aren't familiar with the Khazars, the story goes that the reason there were so many blond-haired blue-eyed Jews in the Ukraine is that the Khazars  (who lived in the neighborhood and owned most of the real estate) converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages for the very sensible reason that having just become a world power they needed a major religion.  Converting to Christianity would have put them under the thumb of the Byzantine emperors, and that although Islam was tempting because it was probably the most liberal and enlightened major religion around at the time, the Tsar of the Khazars could not stomach the idea of separating his (soon to become) Russian people from their vodka.

Or at least that is how Alexander Riasanovsky used to explain it in his Russian History classes.

Interesting.

I knew about the Khazars becoming Jewish back then, but I never heard the suspected reasoning before.  Thanks!


A question:

Does CK2 have Cloud Saving enabled, like EU4 does?  I don't recall ever using it and I don't recall the original release even having this Steam feature.   I figured they probably added it later on, but was wondering.  I think it's one of the best advantages for using Steam, but not many games have it unfortunately.  I would expect they have Cloud Saves enabled now that there is a hardcore mode for achievements.

Switching between the desktop machines and my laptop, without having to constantly load up my save files on a thumb drive back & forth, is quite nice. 

Quote from: Nefaro on February 16, 2014, 02:49:28 PM
Does CK2 have Cloud Saving enabled, like EU4 does?  I don't recall ever using it and I don't recall the original release even having this Steam feature.   I figured they probably added it later on, but was wondering.  I think it's one of the best advantages for using Steam, but not many games have it unfortunately.  I would expect they have Cloud Saves enabled now that there is a hardcore mode for achievements.

Switching between the desktop machines and my laptop, without having to constantly load up my save files on a thumb drive back & forth, is quite nice.

Click "Options" on the main page, then go to the game tab and their should be the option to save to cloud

Quote from: Kushan on February 16, 2014, 02:59:03 PM

Quote from: Nefaro on February 16, 2014, 02:49:28 PM
Does CK2 have Cloud Saving enabled, like EU4 does?  I don't recall ever using it and I don't recall the original release even having this Steam feature.   I figured they probably added it later on, but was wondering.  I think it's one of the best advantages for using Steam, but not many games have it unfortunately.  I would expect they have Cloud Saves enabled now that there is a hardcore mode for achievements.

Switching between the desktop machines and my laptop, without having to constantly load up my save files on a thumb drive back & forth, is quite nice.

Click "Options" on the main page, then go to the game tab and their should be the option to save to cloud

Okay, so it obviously has cloud saves.

I've used them before with EU4 but just haven't checked to see whether CK2 had them.  I had been using the Gamersgate version, previously, so I hadn't checked the Steam version yet.

Thanks!

It's my understanding that "Sons o Abraham" adds a lot to areas of the game having nothing to do with eastern provinces so I went ahead and picked it up. I Am a Sucker for DLC anyway...for great games

Rajas of India expansion release date -- March 25:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?1876-Crusader-Kings-II-Rajas-of-India-to-Release-March-25th&s=f5fd588a26d1b9790a0c79068d006e1d (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?1876-Crusader-Kings-II-Rajas-of-India-to-Release-March-25th&s=f5fd588a26d1b9790a0c79068d006e1d)

must buy...

....just when I thought I had escaped CK2's iron grip...they keep pulling me back in!!!

lol, im thinking of sons of abraham this week

I've not even played much of Sons Of Abraham yet.

Meh, none of them add much for me at this point. I suppose if I wanted to play India I would get it but I'm a Western European guy through and through

NOOOOO!!! Thats the same release day the Diablo 3 expansion.

I'll get it day 1, but like the Sword of Islam and Byzantine DLC's, I'll probably never play it

Anyone take the plunge on Rajas of India today?

I'm seeing regular mentions of glaring bugs in the latest version with the expanded map, and the Rajas DLC.

After having just started getting the ball rolling on my last campaign, and then having to abandon it due to the update, I'm not sure I want to start a new one just yet until it's viable.  I've played CK2 since closed beta, and had to start new campaigns pretty much every update during that time.  I'd rather wait if there will be some extensive patches yet to come.

Anyone put a lot of time into CK2 since this last big update?  Experience any glaring issues?

ive put time in both sides of the update - but your old games are not lost - just roll the betaback in steam and your old saved games are active again

PanzersEast linked me the last episode of Arubas Rajas LP last night. His recommendation is to skip it and not play as a Hindu ruler. As far as I can tell that is the only thing specific to the Rajas DLC itself, everything else is part of the free patch. I'm going to wait for a sale. As PE mentioned to me last night, more and more of the content in the DLC's is part of the free patch, unlike the early DLC's where only a few features where that way.

@Nefaro, I've continued a few games with new DLC's added in. Didn't seam to cause any issues for me.

Quote from: Nefaro on April 06, 2014, 09:56:29 AM
I'm seeing regular mentions of glaring bugs in the latest version with the expanded map, and the Rajas DLC.

After having just started getting the ball rolling on my last campaign, and then having to abandon it due to the update, I'm not sure I want to start a new one just yet until it's viable.  I've played CK2 since closed beta, and had to start new campaigns pretty much every update during that time.  I'd rather wait if there will be some extensive patches yet to come.

Anyone put a lot of time into CK2 since this last big update?  Experience any glaring issues?

Most of the bugs are related to actually playing India. If your not playing India, I think you will be fine.

Thanks for the info guys.

With older systems you may be in trouble even if you don't play India.  The larger map put a major memory crunch on older systems (too many moving trees), and the patch that came out at the same time as RoI delivered that map to everyone else as well. Those of us with more antiquated systems were only able to play the game by rolling the patch back to an earlier version.

A beta patch came out a few days ago that lessens the impact of the expansion but does not cure it.  If you configure your game before you play so that the only things that are turned on are those which will effect your game, you should be fine.  That can be a pain, however, because it is not always obvious what you shouldn't turn off.  If you're going to play a dynasty from Sri Lanka, you only need music for India and you can turn the other music off.  You can also turn off the Celtic figures and portraits, because you'll never come in contact with anyone that far to the west.  You probably won't need the Norse either.  But leave your African figures and portraits on because East Africa sits next to the Indian Ocean.  Where it gets tricky is when you find that each national group seems to need a slightly different configuration, and everything you turn off frees up a bit more memory.  Do you really need to have the EU4 converter turned on if you're going to be playing in the 9th and 10th century?

The development team is still working on the patch, and at least one member of the team thinks that there are a few more tweaks that will make the configuration shenanigans that I just described unnecessary.  I hope he is right, because I don't plan on upgrading my system any time soon, and I would love to take the slothful approach and always play with everything turned on.  It is not clear, however, that these tweaks are going to be ready in time for the next official patch. So the worst case scenario is that it won't and you'll have to spend a minute remembering what you'll need to turn on or off before you play for another six months or so, by which time there will be another expansion and another pair of patches.

As for the other bugs, there always seem to be a lot of them when an expansion first comes out, and this one has so much new material going on in it that I'm sure India will feel buggy compared to Central Europe for a couple of patches more at least.    Frankly I've been too busy just figuring out if I could get the thing to run on my antiquated system to do any significant playing or bug-spotting.  But as long as someone has more than 2 gigs of memory and a reasonably modern machine, he shouldn't have any inordinate  problems running the game.

Hmm, that may be...hadn't thought of that. I haven't had an issue but I have a relatively new system. Good info

So is the game still running okay if you haven't opted into the latest beta update?  Just wondering. 

Quote from: Martok on April 09, 2014, 08:29:30 AM
So is the game still running okay if you haven't opted into the latest beta update?  Just wondering.

mine works fine

There has been reports that male characters with the 'homosexual' trait can become pregnant.

Reportedly the biggest issue is the newly revised revolt and decadence systems.  The Indian (and maybe Islamic) areas devolve into endless civil wars with big rebel stacks and there may be some issues in Islam-land too.  This is just what I've read, as I decided to check what was wrong before deciding whether to start a new campaign.

It may not bother you directly, if you're playing as a  European Christian nation.  However, it will inevitably throw the rest of the world into some kind of crazy chaos if the reports are true.  So you may see unusual stuff going on with many of the AI entities.   I can't bring myself to start a new campaign knowing that so much may be out of whack when my game has progressed.

Yeah, that does put a damper on my wanting to fire up the game as well.  Even if/when I'm not being affected directly, I hate the idea of other players (even when they're just AI) having to deal with that sort of crap. 

Quote from: Nefaro on April 09, 2014, 11:50:14 AM
Reportedly the biggest issue is the newly revised revolt and decadence systems.  The Indian (and maybe Islamic) areas devolve into endless civil wars with big rebel stacks and there may be some issues in Islam-land too.  This is just what I've read, as I decided to check what was wrong before deciding whether to start a new campaign.

That seemed to be Arubas's biggest complaint with the new patch/DLC. He had a ton of peasant rebellions as he got closer to forming India. To play devils advocate though, the Muslims needed a bit of rebellion added in. The whole Islamic part of the game tends to be one giant unbreakable block.

Man, I love this game.

The thing I've noticed, though, is that when things go downhill, they go downhill fast.  Maybe there should be a time delay from the time you choose to raise levies and the time they actually show up on the map.  I dunno.  It seems, though, that when a war breaks out troops just spawn everywhere and you have no time to prepare your defenses.

Also, is there some way to get an idea of a leader's ability to raise levies- the amount he can raise- before you declare war and see his troops amassed? 

yeah, there is but im away from PC at mo which is fk all use to you - i think its up near the enemies family tree button, you can click on it and it gives you various options including his troop total and what he can bring to bear with allies etc

home tonight and ill give you the proper guide!

Ok so I finally finished a campaign (game) of CK2 with a score of 12779.  Is that good?

I started as a minor Duke (Poraj) of Poland and grew my holdings fairly well.  My 3rd in line had 8 kids so I thought I was doing well.  My successor from that, though, only had one damn daughter.  How is that possible?  I even bumped off my wife and remarried to no effect.  Unfortunately, I had married my one daughter off to the King of Scotland.  So I had no heir after my male died.  Playing as the Queen I divorced my King and headed back to Poland, married my Uncle, but was unable to produce another male, despite one or two affairs.  So I eventually died in my mid-40s with no heir and the game ended.

I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done once you end up with a single daughter as your heir.  Maybe if I married a loser matriminealy (sp)?  Few will accept that, but if you go down far enough into the loser pool you can usually find someone.  Maybe that was the key, to marry some loser and hope for a son...

Or legitimise a bastard

Quote from: Toonces on November 18, 2014, 04:23:19 AM
Ok so I finally finished a campaign (game) of CK2 with a score of 12779.  Is that good?

That seems good, from what I recall of the comparative score.  O0

When you resign or are forcibly game-ended, you should go to a screen that gives a comparison on the left of how the designers thought other families would score.

I see they released a new, big patch today.

I guess I'll try this damned game one more time and see if it finally clicks with me.

I'm thinking about it too. I remember back at WG, we did some kind of AAR and it was a hell of a lot of fun to write up, though my guy died pretty early on. I can't find the article anywhere, but it's probably close to ten years old at this point.

SDR,

I found that running a very small independent realm, though suicidal, was a good way to ease myself into the mechanics of the game.

Start with something in Ireland.  Master things there, understand inheritance laws, then progress to something like a duchy of Apulia in Italy.  Enjoy

I've always favored Brittany as a good beginner realm. Nice, manageable number of vassals and territories. Independent duke ("petty king" technically), so you can aspire to establish a true kingdom. Not too hard to stay on good terms with France and England, playing them off against one another to avoid conquest by either. Some nice realms in Ireland you can conquer by fabricating claims.

Quote from: JasonPratt on November 19, 2014, 08:40:32 AM
SDR,

I found that running a very small independent realm, though suicidal, was a good way to ease myself into the mechanics of the game.

Thanks.  I farted around with Ireland and Scotland previously.  I think I'm OK with the mechanics (although some of the succession laws and intrigue stuff still isn't 100%).  I just never seem to get too into the game.  I just faff about, find a few wives for people, hire some tutors, send off some weasel to manufacture claims or whatnot and then just sit there, waiting and waiting, and waiting for something interesting to happen but nothing ever does.

That being the case, maybe you should go for a larger starting nation now? Maybe the remnants of the Persians, stuck between the Abbasid super-empire, the Indians (and related subcontinentals like the Afghans), the Central Asian hordes, and a touch of the Byz?

Lots of potential threats and target opportunities of various sizes there.

Another possibility might be one of the Scandanavian indies for a smaller less hectic game but still one with more things happening.

Or start farther back as Ireland still smothered in local indies, consolidate the island, and set up some ships to start circle-looping around the rest of Britain over to Scandanavia to counter-invade and shut down the Viking threats? -- the idea being, don't go for the boringly obvious and probably suicidal route of nicking counties from the larger British isle, but build up your powerbase more by taking Iceland, the Faeroes, and assorted similar small islands as a staging ground for whapping Norway? (And/or start trying to colonize west Africa several centuries early?)

Quote from: sandman2575 on November 19, 2014, 01:08:02 PM
I've always favored Brittany as a good beginner realm. Nice, manageable number of vassals and territories. Independent duke ("petty king" technically), so you can aspire to establish a true kingdom. Not too hard to stay on good terms with France and England, playing them off against one another to avoid conquest by either. Some nice realms in Ireland you can conquer by fabricating claims.

  Burgundy in 759 was pretty good, I thought.  I just sorta did whatever it seemed Charlemagne would like and did okay.  Maybe I'll go back to Burgundy after the patch and see what's what.  I think its about 763 or so.  I had plenty of dubious vassals (my half-brother for example), but my seemingly utterly incompetent spy-master (an 11 in spy mastery as I recall) was very lucky and I kept plenty of people in jail.  As I remember they were all out of jail.  I had some cunning plan where their various ambitions and fiefs somehow kept them all in mutual check.  I took up gardening after some Saxon Pagans nearly killed me.  But I'm okay now.  I think.  Name's Theodoric (or something like that) oddly enough.  I'm a genius and so is my wife.  Naturally we have no children.  The rest is history.

The Russian Rurikovich princes, descendants of the Varangian Viking lords who invaded generations before, are a nice start in 1066 for an independent Duke who can carve off some neighboring Pagan lords and become a Kingdom before long.  The area is awash in Rurik descendents who are Dukes, and you will probably begin the game allied with some of them (being your brothers, cousins, etc) 

I believe the Duchy of Polotsk is specifically a great start for a Journeyman CK2 player since you can become the Kingdom of Lithuania after a little expansion.  The larger Rurikids like Novgorod and Kiev tend to become rivals with each other, so you can stay out of the spotlight, and your neighbors to the West are likewise engaged elsewhere for a time.  None of them care if you expand at the expense of the smaller Baltic coast pagans.

There are quite a few of the lot to choose from, so there may be others that look more interesting than Polotsk, depening on preference.  You also don't have to worry about dealing with the Pope or your bishops funneling their income to him instead of you since you're Orthodox although the lands aren't generally as wealthy as some parts of western europe.

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on November 19, 2014, 01:11:28 PM
  I just faff about, find a few wives for people, hire some tutors, send off some weasel to manufacture claims or whatnot and then just sit there, waiting and waiting, and waiting for something interesting to happen ...

Well, TBH this is sort of what the game essentially is. 

You kind of guide your strategic plans, but the meat of the game (for me anyway) is a lot of sitting and watching things develop, listening to the awesome soundtrack while sipping an adult beverage.   :buck2:

That's how I play CK2 AND EUIV.  There is a lot of pausing for decisions and what not, but, I keep the timer moving at fill tilt with my fingers hovering over the Space bar to pause.

Quote from: MetalDog on November 19, 2014, 11:32:30 PM
That's how I play CK2 AND EUIV.  There is a lot of pausing for decisions and what not, but, I keep the timer moving at fill tilt with my fingers hovering over the Space bar to pause.

I am SO glad they finally put the "Pause on Event Requiring Decision" feature back in.  Got annoyed at having to be Johnny On The Spot with the space bar when those would pop up while the game was still going at high speed somewhere behind the pop-up window.  That feature had been missing since EU2!   >:(

Between that, and setting all the events that could possibly spark new orders to pop-up and pause, the Spacebar gets much less of a workout these days.  Takes awhile to set all those message settings up though.

Ok starting out as York, I am now Warwick with 4 duchies (7/3 demense so I'm hurting).  I'm 42, wife 44 and I have 3 daughters.  My 1st daughter, my heir, just came of age unmarried.

So if I understand this right I want to marry her off matrilineal, despite the prestige hit.  If I marry her off to a normal guy with normal male succession, her sons will inherit my properties and I will end the game upon my death, correct?  Unless I go matrilineal in which case I can still play as her children through a different marriage...

Despite a young, fertile wife and two affairs I just couldn't close the deal with a son dammit.

Yeah, that's my understanding. If your daughter-heir's offspring are of another dynasty (ie she does not marry matrilineally), that's Game Over.  You could try marrying her off partrilineally to a male of your own dynasty, even if he's a vassal, if that's an option.

Sounds like it's time for your 44 year old wife to meet with an 'unfortunate accident'...

thats what id do, bump off the old girl, get a 19 yr old wench from 'fertile' list of available women and have at it

Quote from: undercovergeek on November 22, 2014, 08:50:54 AM
thats what id do, bump off the old girl, get a 19 yr old wench from 'fertile' list of available women and have at it

It could be the traits and decisions of your own character that is giving Fertility penalties.  Just sayin.. if it's real bad then it may have been taking two to not tango.

Occasionally you have siblings who are complete asshats and wish to be king instead of you.  I love to tick them off by having a go with their wife, and then demoting him after he presses a claim, or trouncing him if he rebels.

As Mel Brooks said, it's good to be king!

Quote from: endfire79 on November 22, 2014, 12:19:10 PM
Occasionally you have siblings who are complete asshats and wish to be king instead of you.  I love to tick them off by having a go with their wife, and then demoting him after he presses a claim, or trouncing him if he rebels.

As Mel Brooks said, it's good to be king!

Occasionally?!

Dunno how many times my own children have tried to kill one of my characters.  The wife.  Siblings.  All of them! 

IIRC Pdox reduced the 'Same dynasty' relations bonus right before CK2's first release.  They really wanted lots of murder being plotted.  :o

New DLC announced...yes, seriously!  LOL!


Crusader Kings II: Way of Life announced - Patch 2.3 BETA will be open to anyone! (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?818076-Crusader-Kings-II-Way-of-Life-announced-Patch-2.3-BETA-will-be-open-to-anyone!)

QuoteHi everyone,

Today we’re announcing that we’re in the midst of developing something new for Crusader Kings II, a project that will allow you to get even deeper into the role-playing aspects of the game. Way of Life, the next DLC for CK2, will let you become a better (or worse!) ruler and grant you more power over personal relationships than ever before.

Sure, it’s nice to have someone cozy up to you and be your lover while you’re sitting atop the throne, but what if you could choose who to seduce? Or, after getting into that relationship on the side, what if you discover that you just need some space and had a way to break it off? You know, without having your soon-to-be ex-lover assassinated. These things and much more, including hundreds of new events, are coming to Way of Life.

With every piece of DLC, we always issue a patch for the vanilla game that allows everyone to take advantage of the changes being made to CK2, and this will be no different EXCEPT this particular time we’re asking for your assistance by helping us test out the patch ahead of the launch of Way of Life. The beta test will begin next week and we’ll have more details on how to fabricate a claim to beta test soon, so be on the lookout.

- Paradox Development Studio & Paradox Interactive

I still haven't picked up Charlemagne!   ;D  Is it safe now?  I heard the initial release was very buggy.

Quote from: RooksBailey on November 23, 2014, 02:09:33 AM
New DLC announced...yes, seriously!  LOL!


<...>

I still haven't picked up Charlemagne!   ;D  Is it safe now?  I heard the initial release was very buggy.

IIRC there's been a patch or two since Charlemagne was released.

So I'm trying to play this stupid game again.  Once again, I'm just sitting with my thumb up my arse, waiting, and waiting, and waiting for my idiot flunky to fabricate a claim so I can go to war.  Started the game in 867ad, it's now 900ad and the idiot still hasn't managed it.  BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What level are you playing Duke, Count, King? What country?

If you want excitement play as William the Conqueror in 1066. Lots of action there.

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on November 23, 2014, 12:19:49 PM
So I'm trying to play this stupid game again.  Once again, I'm just sitting with my thumb up my arse, waiting, and waiting, and waiting for my idiot flunky to fabricate a claim so I can go to war.  Started the game in 867ad, it's now 900ad and the idiot still hasn't managed it.  BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

30 yrs goes by fast in this game, suggest you increase the game speed.   Technology grows a lot slower than in the Europa Universalis series; this is the early & late middle ages.

What kingdom (or duchy) are you starting as?

If you want action immediately, then start near the time of the first crusades and answer to papal call to holy war, or play as one of the Muslim principalities fending off the knights who said ni  :)
Alternatively, you can play as one of the Slavic kingdoms or duchies in east around the time that the Mongols decided they wanted bigger horse pastures (1240's).

I started as some unpronounceable Irish tribe and I've now progressed to become the King of Mumu.  It's basically a duchy of 3 areas.  I think it's all up now though because the original guy just snuffed it.  His son's got very little prestige and no standing with the 3 bishops who are his vassals.  The Vikings just showed up with 7,000 guys against my 1,100 personal levies.  The bishops won't raise any troops because they're more loyal to the Pope and I don't have enough prestige to raise the tribal army.

Ah vikings.  Guaranteed to ruin a day. Is this pre 900?

907 or something like that.

if you want action from the get go, start as viking  :)

Those are the times where the Vikings are at the advantage. You can also switch to the Byzantine realms, where you have threats from multiple fronts.

Or Persia. So very screwed, yet large enough to not necessarily be screwed from every single direction.

Quote from: MengJiao on November 19, 2014, 04:04:50 PM

Quote from: sandman2575 on November 19, 2014, 01:08:02 PM
I've always favored Brittany as a good beginner realm. Nice, manageable number of vassals and territories. Independent duke ("petty king" technically), so you can aspire to establish a true kingdom. Not too hard to stay on good terms with France and England, playing them off against one another to avoid conquest by either. Some nice realms in Ireland you can conquer by fabricating claims.

  Burgundy in 759 was pretty good, I thought.  I just sorta did whatever it seemed Charlemagne would like and did okay.  Maybe I'll go back to Burgundy after the patch and see what's what.  I think its about 763 or so.  I had plenty of dubious vassals (my half-brother for example), but my seemingly utterly incompetent spy-master (an 11 in spy mastery as I recall) was very lucky and I kept plenty of people in jail.  As I remember they were all out of jail.  I had some cunning plan where their various ambitions and fiefs somehow kept them all in mutual check.  I took up gardening after some Saxon Pagans nearly killed me.  But I'm okay now.  I think.  Name's Theodoric (or something like that) oddly enough.  I'm a genius and so is my wife.  Naturally we have no children.  The rest is history.

  I got to 782!  Charlemagne is "the Wise" and there's a big movement to make me King of the Franks.  I'm not in any rush.  I have an heir of sorts named Bobo or something.  I try to know as little about him as possible.  What can you do?

Quote from: MengJiao on November 24, 2014, 09:59:38 AM
  I have an heir of sorts named Bobo or something.  I try to know as little about him as possible.  What can you do?

He's probably plotting your death right now, as we speak.  Or one of your close relatives is plotting his death.   >:D


Tough love in CK2.


(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.troll.me%2Fimages%2Fchuck-norris%2Fwatch-yo-back.jpg&hash=cccc8b02af47ff4e773850859e1d554e032f3cee)

Quote from: Nefaro on November 24, 2014, 11:43:08 AM

Quote from: MengJiao on November 24, 2014, 09:59:38 AM
  I have an heir of sorts named Bobo or something.  I try to know as little about him as possible.  What can you do?

He's probably plotting your death right now, as we speak.  Or one of your close relatives is plotting his death.   >:D

Tough love in CK2.

   The Bobo doll was used to test aggression after viewing violent material in the early 1960s.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Bobo_doll-fr.svg/600px-Bobo_doll-fr.svg.png

I'm returning to Crusader Kings II after a long break.  Which DLC would you recommend I purchase right away?  Or is it like Hearts of Iron/Victoria where you need them all to get the best experience?

Quote from: republic on November 26, 2014, 08:34:39 AM
I'm returning to Crusader Kings II after a long break.  Which DLC would you recommend I purchase right away?  Or is it like Hearts of Iron/Victoria where you need them all to get the best experience?

You don't need any extra DLC unless you want to play those extra eras or factions.  The core game has been updated to contain all the patches and new stuff along the way.  It's essentially a modular system so compatibility is kept no matter what DLC you have.  The DLCs just allow you to expand the scope of playable factions and times. 

All modern games that regularly market DLC add-ons should use this kind of modular system but not all do so.

Wait, some of the timeframes require requisite DLC, don't they? Namely Old Gods and Charl?

Except that once you have Charl, that only means you can't start at OG bookmarks and thus not with playing whomever is around at that time, you can still play through that time period as whomever you started (maybe picking up the historical figures for your faction along the way) -- if I understand the mechanic correctly.

Similarly, if you don't want to play as an Indian faction, or as a Republic, don't bother with those DLCs; but they'll still be around to play against.

How about starting a collaborative playthrough where each participant is responsible for an X amount of years until the other one takes over the savegame.
Of course this would all be written down in AAR form?

Quote from: Yskonyn on November 26, 2014, 11:13:40 AM
How about starting a collaborative playthrough where each participant is responsible for an X amount of years until the other one takes over the savegame.
Of course this would all be written down in AAR form?

That sounds cool... how about a new person takes when ever an heir takes control.....

sucks for the one who gets thrown out of a window 5 days after taking over - had that!!

lol, game makes me smile even when im not playing it

Yeah but that is what makes for fun stories! And if we manage to complete it we can always start another.
Part of the excitement is that you won't know how long you'll be playing. And chances are pretty slim you'll draw the short straw two times in a row. :)

As for the moment to take over: isn't it also possible for a ruler to reign for lots of years in the game? Wouldn't it be better to make it and OR situation; either a new heir takes over OR X amount of time has passed?

Sure if you want to even out the play time. I was just thinking that having each person play an entire character would give more flavour to each ruler.

Quote from: republic on November 26, 2014, 08:34:39 AM
I'm returning to Crusader Kings II after a long break.  Which DLC would you recommend I purchase right away?  Or is it like Hearts of Iron/Victoria where you need them all to get the best experience?

If you can, wait a few weeks. CK2 and all DLC are likely to get a giant price cut at some point during Steam's Christmas sale (if not sooner during the currently running Exploration sale).

Quote from: Arctic Blast on November 26, 2014, 02:15:33 PM

Quote from: republic on November 26, 2014, 08:34:39 AM
I'm returning to Crusader Kings II after a long break.  Which DLC would you recommend I purchase right away?  Or is it like Hearts of Iron/Victoria where you need them all to get the best experience?

If you can, wait a few weeks. CK2 and all DLC are likely to get a giant price cut at some point during Steam's Christmas sale (if not sooner during the currently running Exploration sale).

Psst

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=11893.0 (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=11893.0)

Quote from: Barthheart on November 26, 2014, 01:26:09 PM
Sure if you want to even out the play time. I was just thinking that having each person play an entire character would give more flavour to each ruler.

Sure! Sounds like a fun thing as long as every player is ok with the possibility to either play very long or very short.

Who would be interested in doing something like this? Let it be known.

I think I may be down for this as well.

For those interested in playing the collaborative game: on which level should we play (Duke, King)? And which nation / duchy has our interest?
I have every DLC up to and including Sons of Abraham.

Anyone played the Charlemagne expansion yet? If you have how does it measure up? :)

I've played one campaign off in an odd corner of the world. Y'know, wasn't broken, but it still has some... eccentricities... in its gameplay and design. :) http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=11461.0

Quote from: Boggit on November 27, 2014, 05:24:29 PM
Anyone played the Charlemagne expansion yet? If you have how does it measure up? :)

  I'm playing Burgundy in Charlemagne.  Charles is "wise" in this run and I'm next in line to be King if he makes Emperor.

  It has some period flavor: the Pagan German Tribes (PGT) pack a whallop.

All of CK2 except for the Charlemagne stuff is on sale now over at Steam for -75%.  :smitten:

Just when I thought Paradox put a period on this great game, they go ahead and tease another expansion:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/weekly-dev-diary-1.855566/

QuoteIt's been a while, and I bet you're all wondering what we've been up to... Now, I can't reveal anything about the upcoming expansion quite yet, but, to tide you over, I thought I'd talk a bit about our other efforts. As you know, with every expansion comes a slew of free improvements and fixes. This time the focus has been on the latter; clearing up old bugs and issues (the change log is currently 620 lines long). Sometimes, that has required us to do some fairly major code rewrites.

:)

Rise of Islam
Rise of Islam
Rise of Islam
CAN I GET AN ALLAHU AKBAR!?

(Not that I care so much for that, I just want the time period pushed back that far, and this seems a good excuse.  :smitten: )

Paradox is giving away a free South Indian Portraits DLC, but you've got to have your email "verified".

Quote
Salutations everyone!
As some of you know we gave out a free EUIV DLC starting December 2015 for everyone that verified their Paradox Account email. This turned out to be very popular so we decided to mix it up a little bit!

From today, 15:00, anyone that verifies their account will now get a South Indian Portraits pack!
This adds new clothing and thousands of unique face combinations for both male and female characters while playing as any South Indian Nation.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/get-a-free-dlc-for-ckii-when-you-verify-your-email.905633/&utm_source=Community+Newsletter&utm_campaign=eca0c4aec0-emsub-plaza_papl_email_20160226&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6b1b68c4d1-eca0c4aec0-146815601

Super thanks for the info on the free DLC, steve58. I just got both installed which also included the Europa Universalis IV: Evangelical Majors Unit Pack.

Thanks for the heads-up, Steve.  O0

Quote from: steve58 on February 26, 2016, 12:47:50 PM
Paradox is giving away a free South Indian Portraits DLC, but you've got to have your email "verified".

Quote
Salutations everyone!
As some of you know we gave out a free EUIV DLC starting December 2015 for everyone that verified their Paradox Account email. This turned out to be very popular so we decided to mix it up a little bit!

From today, 15:00, anyone that verifies their account will now get a South Indian Portraits pack!
This adds new clothing and thousands of unique face combinations for both male and female characters while playing as any South Indian Nation.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/get-a-free-dlc-for-ckii-when-you-verify-your-email.905633/&utm_source=Community+Newsletter&utm_campaign=eca0c4aec0-emsub-plaza_papl_email_20160226&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6b1b68c4d1-eca0c4aec0-146815601

Thanks!


I don't recall applying the previous EU4 one, but evidently I did at some point.  Senility must be starting.

Now I got the CK2 one also!

Another DLC on its way for the end of August from what I read somewhere else: The Reaper's Due DLC (https://www.vg247.com/2016/07/22/crusader-kings-2-dlc-lets-you-get-sick-and-die-of-plague-as-the-black-death-spreads-across-europe/)

Quote from: WallysWorld on August 02, 2016, 11:20:35 AM
Another DLC on its way for the end of August from what I read somewhere else: The Reaper's Due DLC (https://www.vg247.com/2016/07/22/crusader-kings-2-dlc-lets-you-get-sick-and-die-of-plague-as-the-black-death-spreads-across-europe/)

...an article from RPS (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/08/02/crusader-kings-2-pet-cats-the-reapers-due/).  Hhhhmmm, may have to give CKII another go since they're adding cats. O0

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.buzzfeed.com%2Fbuzzfeed-static%2Fstatic%2Fenhanced%2Fweb03%2F2012%2F10%2F11%2F14%2Fenhanced-buzz-8658-1349980231-16.jpg&hash=bf9a115c0b60ed3778c850255aef547bb92b0889)

I had thought in the past they indicated they weren't doing more DLC for the game, glad to see them keep it going...even though I haven't been able to keep up myself.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on August 02, 2016, 07:44:10 PM
I had thought in the past they indicated they weren't doing more DLC for the game, glad to see them keep it going...even though I haven't been able to keep up myself.

Judging by how poorly received the last EU4 expansion was, and some of the problems caused by the final EU3 expansion, I'm a bit worried they might leave it with some screwed up mechanical changes to the core game.  Don't want to break something that isn't broken. 

The subject of this DLC isn't enticing either.  Disease and plague epidemics?  Meh.  Has the capability to cause a lot of rage if they don't get it just right.  Too hot, too cold, or too annoying and there will be some frustrated players.

Hoping they don't change a lot of stuff, under the hood, for those who don't use this DLC.   

Heck, their previous three or four DLC have been base-breaking already. I can't say I'm overly optimistic about this one.  :-\

Quote from: JasonPratt on August 03, 2016, 11:16:17 AM
Heck, their previous three or four DLC have been base-breaking already. I can't say I'm overly optimistic about this one.  :-\

Exactly.

While I'm thankful they also update core game mechanics with each expansion release, for free, some of the recent changes have been questionable or unneeded.  For both CK2 and EU4. 

The trend doesn't bode well.  Too much over-engineering?

I am just waiting for the patch more than the DLC, auto call to arms is the reason I shelved CK2 for months now.

Quote from: JasonPratt on August 03, 2016, 11:16:17 AM
Heck, their previous three or four DLC have been base-breaking already. I can't say I'm overly optimistic about this one.  :-\

aww... c'mon! buying these DLC is working as good as it should - paypal's a bliss, right?! who cares to play these games anyway???!!!!!

beers!
chem!

I've been wanting to dive back in and enjoy some of the newer DLC, but what's stopping me is the fact that I haven't played CK in years - probably since the year it was released.  I know a lot has been changed and/or added to the point that it's almost a new game I'm going to have to learn from scratch.

Is there a Let's Play series that's up to date on all the changes so I can ease back in?  I don't want to invest time watching something already obsolete.

Quote from: tgb on August 31, 2016, 07:08:17 AM


Is there a Let's Play series that's up to date on all the changes so I can ease back in?  I don't want to invest time watching something already obsolete.

You'll probably want to find a series from this year.  But one which doesn't directly utilize a DLC you don't own.


'Quill' did some for the Conclave expansion, back in February.   Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR1eUMt6zoE)  Live stream recording, not sure if that bothers you. 

Unfortunately 'Arumba' hasn't done any recent CK2 campaigns, other than a pre-release for the latest Plague DLC, which I'm just not interested in getting, and some screwed-up setting mod quite awhile back.  He knows his CK2 very well, but has been doing other stuff lately.  :-\

I AM interested in the Plague DLC, which is my main reason for reinstalling.  I watched the first part of Arumba's latest series, and saw the Focus mechanic for the first time.  It looks good, but apparently Way of Life, which introduced it, wasn't very well received.

Was it also included in a free patch, or do I have to get Way of Life to be able to access it?

Conclave looks like poopie to me. Don't see much in the Plague dlc either, though it looks less disruptive.

Quote from: tgb on August 31, 2016, 10:49:29 AM
I AM interested in the Plague DLC, which is my main reason for reinstalling.  I watched the first part of Arumba's latest series, and saw the Focus mechanic for the first time.  It looks good, but apparently Way of Life, which introduced it, wasn't very well received.

Was it also included in a free patch, or do I have to get Way of Life to be able to access it?

I've not played CK2 in awhile.  Since before Way Of Life dlc. 

And the majority of my time spent in CK2 was in Beta testing for the core game and the first one or two DLCs, long ago.  Every time I plan on playing a campaign, I end up getting cold feet because yet another DLC & Feature Update is Coming Soon™ and I end up waiting... so long I end up doing other stuff.


Edit:  I recall there being some complaints about changes to the game, a DLC or two ago.  Conclave perhaps? 

Quote from: Nefaro on August 31, 2016, 10:54:21 AM
Edit:  I recall there being some complaints about changes to the game, a DLC or two five or seven ago.

FTFY.

New Worlds: Crusader Kings II Map and History Generator (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/09/12/crusader-kings-2-random-map-mod/#more-397339) tool...as seen on RPS.  Thought those of you who can actually get into CKII (never been able to myself :-\) would be interested in this tool (currently in beta).

WOW! If that guy can get all that to work properly then it should be very cool to play on random worlds!  :o

I'm still getting into CKII.  Are there any must have mods that I should get?

Quote from: OJsDad on September 19, 2016, 07:44:02 PM
I'm still getting into CKII.  Are there any must have mods that I should get?

Just play it vanilla, with all the DLCs you feel like getting.  Plenty there.

The most popular mod is probably the Game of Thrones one.  Which is a total conversion, of course.  I've still never tried it, despite knowing of it since the original CK long ago.

Quote from: Nefaro on September 19, 2016, 07:56:46 PM

Quote from: OJsDad on September 19, 2016, 07:44:02 PM
I'm still getting into CKII.  Are there any must have mods that I should get?

Just play it vanilla, with all the DLCs you feel like getting.  Plenty there.

The most popular mod is probably the Game of Thrones one.  Which is a total conversion, of course.  I've still never tried it, despite knowing of it since the original CK long ago.

Ditto all that

Thanks.

More dlc on the way...

https://www.paradoxplaza.com/crusader-kings-ii-monks-and-mystics

I'm into the 1270's in my current game.  I started as Poland and formed the Wendish Empire.  Most of Europe is pretty much divided by four empires, the Wendish which covers most of central Europe, from the Baltic to the Black Sea, most of Germany, Brittany, eight counties in England/Wales, and a couple of areas in each of modern day Greece and Italy.  Austrasia which runs from northern Germany, west across the low lands and then most of France.  Holy Roman has Italy, parts of North Africa and most of Spain.  Finally the Byzantine Empire, which has the Balkans, loops around the Black Sea, and then has a large chunk what is today western and central Russia. 

There are still a number smaller countries around.  The largest of which is probably Svea Rike, which is most of Scandinavia and the northern Baltics.  The Muslim countries have never done much this game

The Mongols have shown up in the east, but haven't really don't much, though they now have a border with the Byzantine Empire.  There was a holy war against them after they took Perm, but it failed.

The big thing to have is the Aztec Empire has shown up in the west.  They've taken Scotland, most of England, part of the Iberian peninsula, and Bavaria.  They show as having over 180,000 troops that they can call up. 

Lol. Aztecs.  I've never gone far in CKII to actually manage a country / empire.  I'm always a poor vassal.

Quote from: OJsDad on April 23, 2017, 12:50:27 PM


The big thing to have is the Aztec Empire has shown up in the west.  They've taken Scotland, most of England, part of the Iberian peninsula, and Bavaria.  They show as having over 180,000 troops that they can call up.

You must be the only one, here, who leaves that module activated in their games.  :))

Quote from: Nefaro on April 24, 2017, 08:21:25 PM

Quote from: OJsDad on April 23, 2017, 12:50:27 PM


The big thing to have is the Aztec Empire has shown up in the west.  They've taken Scotland, most of England, part of the Iberian peninsula, and Bavaria.  They show as having over 180,000 troops that they can call up.

You must be the only one, here, who leaves that module activated in their games.  :))

I heard on 3MA that with the satanistic and cult content there actually are several fun story chains linking into Aztec DLC.

Quote from: jomni on April 23, 2017, 08:01:54 PM
Lol. Aztecs.  I've never gone far in CKII to actually manage a country / empire.  I'm always a poor vassal.

Ditto. I never get to the empire building phase. I'm always starting on "Tutorial Island" (Ireland).

Part of it is it's hard to get a grip on what is going on. The DLCs don't bother me as I only own Legacy, Old Gods, Charlemagne, Way of Life and Sons of Abraham. 

I don't do Ironman or go for achievements. Maybe if I did a narrative and just wrote it out like the Italian AAR?

CKII is heading east. No map expansion though.

https://twitter.com/CrusaderKings/status/900720211770437632

Quote from: OJsDad on August 24, 2017, 09:43:26 AM
CKII is heading east. No map expansion though.

https://twitter.com/CrusaderKings/status/900720211770437632

It's a good move for Paradox to do this because there would people demanding we push further east into Japan, Korea, and who knows where else.
Not to mention imagine the engine trying to handle all those characters, events etc.

Sounds great.

Quote from: CJReich46 on August 24, 2017, 06:16:02 PM


It's a good move for Paradox to do this because there would people demanding we push further east into Japan, Korea, and who knows where else.
Not to mention imagine the engine trying to handle all those characters, events etc.

I'd rather they just made a standalone CK2-engined game covering the whole Sengoku period. 

They already have a map to work with, from their gutted version which hardly has any of the character & political mechanics in it (sadly).

I've not purchased CK2.  I replayed CK extensively early in the year.

^ dude.   :wow:

Quote from: airboy on August 25, 2017, 10:01:42 PM
I've not purchased CK2.  I replayed CK extensively early in the year.

Quote from: Toonces on August 26, 2017, 08:36:41 AM
^ dude.   :wow:

I don't blame Airboy one bit. With 28 DLCs, Crusader Kings II is certainly a cash cow for Paradox. Paradox could give the CK2 base game away for free and it would still make a killing by selling the DLCs for it.

https://www.paradoxplaza.com/crusader-kings-ii/CKCK02GSK-MASTER.html

Sale :

Crusader Kings II    Base Game    10.0 EUR

Crusader Kings II: Five Year Anniversary Edition   15.0 EUR

    Base Game
    Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
    Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
    Crusader Kings II: Ruler Designer
    Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
    Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods


Crusader Kings II Collection  75.34 €  (normal price = EUR 301.38 EUR !)

    Base Game
    Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
    Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
    Crusader Kings II: Ruler Designer
    Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
    Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
    All Expansions & DLCs up until January 2017


Also most DLC at -50%

Quote from: Greybriar on August 26, 2017, 08:47:27 AM

Quote from: airboy on August 25, 2017, 10:01:42 PM
I've not purchased CK2.  I replayed CK extensively early in the year.

Quote from: Toonces on August 26, 2017, 08:36:41 AM
^ dude.   :wow:

I don't blame Airboy one bit. With 28 DLCs, Crusader Kings II is certainly a cash cow for Paradox. Paradox could give the CK2 base game away for free and it would still make a killing by selling the DLCs for it.

The base game is just fine.  Don't really need the rest. 

Plus they've implemented a huge amount of free additions to the base game throughout all those DLC releases.

Pdox may have gone nuts with DLC for CK2, but they generally did it right.  They didn't charge top dollar for a re-release with some DLC additions.  They didn't make expansions that were incompatible with the core game; it's all modular.  There is no need to look up the order in which you install their expansions in order to get a properly working installation.  There isn't troublesome limited activation DRM gunking it all up.  They did quite well, especially compared to other game companies' bloated messes.

I think Paradox deserves a lot of credit for their approach to CK2 DLC and their big turnaround of previous mistakes. 

Quote from: Nefaro on August 26, 2017, 04:44:19 PM

Quote from: Greybriar on August 26, 2017, 08:47:27 AM

Quote from: airboy on August 25, 2017, 10:01:42 PM
I've not purchased CK2.  I replayed CK extensively early in the year.

Quote from: Toonces on August 26, 2017, 08:36:41 AM
^ dude.   :wow:

I don't blame Airboy one bit. With 28 DLCs, Crusader Kings II is certainly a cash cow for Paradox. Paradox could give the CK2 base game away for free and it would still make a killing by selling the DLCs for it.

The base game is just fine.  Don't really need the rest. 

Plus they've implemented a huge amount of free additions to the base game throughout all those DLC releases.

Pdox may have gone nuts with DLC for CK2, but they generally did it right.  They didn't charge top dollar for a re-release with some DLC additions.  They didn't make expansions that were incompatible with the core game; it's all modular.  There is no need to look up the order in which you install their expansions in order to get a properly working installation.  There isn't troublesome limited activation DRM gunking it all up.  They did quite well, especially compared to other game companies' bloated messes.

I think Paradox deserves a lot of credit for their approach to CK2 DLC and their big turnaround of previous mistakes.

Exactly. And a lot of that DLC is superfluous. Music packs, sprite packs and the like. If you don't buy them, you aren't affecting your game experience whatsoever. I'd much rather see that offered to people who want to pony up a few bucks than shoehorned into an expansion for even more money when most people don't care about any of it anyway.

when you buy that new 'vet your gonna buy those custom seat covers and floor mats. No one drives a stock 'vet and Paradox knows that. Saying the stock 'vet is fine means exactly what? Nothing.

Jade Dragon. Not what I hoped it would be. I thought you can play China or Chinese Lords.  But no. China is an off map entity that can affect world affairs.  :(

I bought CKII a year ago.  I've tried to play the demo three or for times, and every time, I just get lost in the interface halfway through.  I love the way people describe the game.  I just can't seem to unlock the experience everybody else is finding.

I'm not sure if I'm getting old, or if the interface is just something everybody else is used to.   I guess both could be true?

Arumba has a somewhat dated tutorial series on Youtube that really helped me learn the game:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAvJJuv1hvM&list=PLH-huzMEgGWBBUYoAjpLxFkbgFw19CeA_

I should definitely watch that.

CK2 requires a certain mindset to play.  Scotch tends to help, for me at least (while playing as Scotland/Moray).

I learned CKII with a lot of restarts.  I would play for a couple of decades and learn a few things, try some stuff and then start over.  I knew that if I tried to learn all of the caveats at once, I would never learn any of it. 

Quote from: jomni on November 09, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
Jade Dragon. Not what I hoped it would be. I thought you can play China or Chinese Lords.  But no. China is an off map entity that can affect world affairs.  :(

My understanding is that a Chinese DLC is in the works, no? Or is that what JD was supposed to be? Seems odd not to let you play as china.

Quote from: jomni on November 09, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
Jade Dragon. Not what I hoped it would be. I thought you can play China or Chinese Lords.  But no. China is an off map entity that can affect world affairs.  :(

I was disappointed also that we cannot play as China.  I did read some where that when they added India to the game, it caused a lot of performance issues for a lot of players, and that may have played a part in not adding China as a playable country.  I'm hoping they'll change their minds on this at some point. 

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 09, 2017, 01:24:37 PM

Quote from: jomni on November 09, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
Jade Dragon. Not what I hoped it would be. I thought you can play China or Chinese Lords.  But no. China is an off map entity that can affect world affairs.  :(

My understanding is that a Chinese DLC is in the works, no?

Jade Dragon is the Chinese DLC, but you cannot play as China.  But there will be off map interactions that you can have with them. 

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 09, 2017, 01:24:37 PM

Quote from: jomni on November 09, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
Jade Dragon. Not what I hoped it would be. I thought you can play China or Chinese Lords.  But no. China is an off map entity that can affect world affairs.  :(

My understanding is that a Chinese DLC is in the works, no? Or is that what JD was supposed to be? Seems odd not to let you play as china.

I like everything about CK2 except the NPC management/rpg stuff. I really wish there was a version that just had the political and war engine with all the eugenics removed. Especially if there's a Chinesian option now.

Quote from: Cheimison on November 09, 2017, 07:21:06 PM
I like everything about CK2 except the NPC management/rpg stuff. I really wish there was a version that just had the political and war engine with all the eugenics removed. Especially if there's a Chinesian option now.

That's EU.

Quote from: Cheimison on November 09, 2017, 07:21:06 PM
I like everything about CK2 except the NPC management/rpg stuff. I really wish there was a version that just had the political and war engine with all the eugenics removed. Especially if there's a Chinesian option now.

Quote from: jomni on November 09, 2017, 07:58:52 PM


That's EU.

Yep.  EU4 is the droid you're looking for.

CK2 is quite focused on characters and their interactions.  Although the "Eugenics program" you refer to is barely present.  Only a handful of character traits have a possibility of being passed down.  The developers intentionally limited such things to avoid the breeding program obssession, and stated so.  Most of the character development is a factor of their upbringing, environment, and chance.

Nevertheless, if you don't like all the crazy characters and their rotten backstabbing, and would rather just run a nation-state, you should definitely give Europa Universalis 4 a go.  There is a learning curve, of course.

Quote from: jomni on November 09, 2017, 07:58:52 PM

Quote from: Cheimison on November 09, 2017, 07:21:06 PM
I like everything about CK2 except the NPC management/rpg stuff. I really wish there was a version that just had the political and war engine with all the eugenics removed. Especially if there's a Chinesian option now.

That's EU.

EU's political engine is far too simplified. I'm fine with all the dynastic inheritance, rebellious vassals, and need to raise levy armies that may not actually give you their full promised troop count and get pissed when you keep them for more than three months. I just don't like keeping track of which king has AIDS.

I am already Curb-Stomp level in EU4. I'm several thousand hours in, been playing since release.

In the new DLC the closet thing you can play is Tibet---otherwise it's all off map stuff. Paradox is pushing it's the longest change log in the history of ck2 when the patch releases--but all in all your get a couple new religions to play. some new artifacts and some diplomacy tweaks and all that---so we're wait and see if it pans out to be a worthy purchase. They are starting to wind down on the DLC for the title--there will be no unit packs or music packs for this one.

It may not be the last DLC but pretty close to it.

CK3?

Victoria III (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fplease.gif&hash=79b5fa88c4dbd5efb66763bad0d968825be8d4ef)

Quote from: bbmike on November 10, 2017, 01:32:56 PM
Victoria III (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fplease.gif&hash=79b5fa88c4dbd5efb66763bad0d968825be8d4ef)

+♾

Well my first impressions are rather mixed about this DLC that released today. If you were expecting a good china experience with Jade dragon your going to be disappointed. Much like the latest DLC in Stellaris they half assed it. In the past when you got a new playable faction you got new advisor portraits, holdings and a unique user interface--  not so here. Chinese cultural holdings too lack their own art assets and share the same ones as nomads while using the Indian UI. Building models are middle eastern.  So no matter how large your Han empire is, it is still just a collection of tents. If you planned on playing Tibet and you think your feel like a Chinese emperor---you won't. More like an Indian Nomad. Of less concern but worth noting is the historical errors. I'm pretty ignorant of Chinese history but I have read some reviews noting the errors.

But wait--before you get the impression I'm about to totally trash the expansion....and this is highly based on my personal preference-- the winning things about this DLC is all the rest it includes that really got no fanfare in the promotional hype. For me CK2 is about dynasties and the characters. It's a soap opera RPG with a ton of possabilities and controlling that dynasty just got a whole lot better. You can now arrange marriage on behalf of your landed children and grandchildren, not just those in your court. They will now also always accept your marriage proposals. Both of these features are only usable if they are your vassals or below, and have been rulers for at most 10 years. But alas you can now manage the dynasty right down to grandchildren offspring and your children and grandchildren now have a checkbox on their character page that can be used to prevent them from getting married by the AI useful for ensuring your landed relatives don't get into bad marriages.

For war lovers now we can war for a de jur duchy, instead of wasting time on a single county!Throw in many many many quality of life improvements....say like when you send your chancellor to change religion now the region changes color to represent it--and overall this stuff was things I had hoped for ages.

To be expected there are bugs. And of course most mods are outdated as usual- but if you play the game for the reasons I do you can't miss this DLC.

Thanks for the mini-review, GR. 

I've passed on the last several DLC's, as the new/added content simply hasn't interested me.  Wish we could get just the gameplay and QOL improvements instead; heck, I'd gladly pay $20.00 for that stuff alone. 

Well I broke down and got Jade Dragon. Have absolutely no interest in playing in the east but not knowing what QOL improvements are in the patch and whats not (and being too lazy to look it up) decided to get it. Looks like I'll be starting a new game later today.

well here is a few of them:

When dying, the game will now ensure that your heir has the same items equipped as you did if at all possible.
The "has guardian" icon on a character now takes you to the guardian's character page if clicked.
The "leading troops" icon on a character now pans to the unit they're leading, and selects it if it is yours.
The "council action" icon on a character now pans to the province they're taking the action in.
When a landed character is selected, their realm will now be highlighted on the map, similar to how CB targets are highlighted. - Love this one!
If you click the currently selected character again, the game will now pan to their location.
When assigning "Proselytize" job action, the map coloring will be different if the province is of the wrong religion, or if the target is an independent ruler rather than one of your provinces.
The AI now considers any strong realm nearby a potential threat. - This wasn't already the case!? WTF!
The AI is now a bit more aware of just how superior heavy cavalry is to light infantry.
Gave the AI a crash course in how to hand out titles.
Taught the Pope Geography 101, with an emphasis on what "distance from Catholicism" and "size of kingdom" means in the context of Crusades, and why this means that invading India when Egypt is right there might be a bad idea.

Thanks GR!

Quote from: ghostryder on November 17, 2017, 09:27:25 AM
To be expected there are bugs. And of course most mods are outdated as usual- but if you play the game for the reasons I do you can't miss this DLC.

Any particular mods you recommend? I've modded Stellaris pretty heavily but haven't taken that plunge with CK2 and EUIV yet.

Awesome summary, GR. 

I don't use a lot of mods. The beginning game options offer up mostly what i want depending on the type of game I want to play. Fore example if i want to restore Persia and use the Zoroastrian faith I may set unlimited Demense in options in order to control almost all the counties--since this applies to the A.I. as well another way to achieve it is by using sketchy's cheat mod. There's a master landowner trait it adds that adds 100 Demense--enough to create the empire and restore the faith. that;s a bit fantasy though...I've also enjoyed trying to do it without the cheat and manage my vassals--depends on the mood I'm in and if i want to work at it that much.

One mode i often use because I'm poor thinking up names is sketchy's rename anyone that supplies a nice list of male and female names to choose from:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=935956219

Here's Sketchy's cheat menu--
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=608738995 --- a little troublesome as of the last DLC as the update is missing some features---namely the master landowner that I use---but it also provides the immortal trait which I sometimes use --

I've had some fun playing a Jewish character and attempting to rebuild the temple etc....since you start in a single county in Africa in 769 it's a challenge---but to make it more interesting I'll pair it with the Jewish Kings mod-- it overall fleshes playing them out and makes it more interesting.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=740534329

Of course there is the Game of Thrones mod...but note that mod adds so much your likely not make it 200 years before the whole thing collapses and implodes.

I also at times play a Norse viking and try to reform the religion which is challenging. If you manage to reform it it's probably the strongest faction in the game.

Another way I like to play is use the cathar religion. Grow large enough ---5 holdings larger--and the catholic religion becomes heretic--but what i like about it is you can land your daughters and so it makes things a lot easier management wise---there's a game option for this as well but then it applies to the A.I.--- the downside is you can't reform Cathar---

According to steam I've played 793 hrs. That's a low actual figure as if my memory serves I bought the game before it was moved to steam. In any event I've yet restored Rome or played a merchant republic--the amount of ways to play is staggering really and it's always a different game.

I used to play the secret societies but often ignore them now having went through each one---which only takes 40 or 50 years to experience each. they just aren't that deep and become tedious after a while though the buffs are usually nice.

I really hope at least one of your Jewish kings was named Star, Jarhead or Gus.

Quote from: Gusington on November 20, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
I really hope at least one of your Jewish kings was named Star, Jarhead or Gus.

My Jewish Empire is thriving, but no emperors named any of those. 

Think you're thriving now? Just wait for the Three Jewish Wisemen to show up.

If they show up, then I know I can kick the Byzantines to the ground, retake Jerusalem, and erect the third temple!!

Now you're talking. Just remember to keep kosher.

Alright. Firing up an old thread.

I have some steam dollars to spend, and I am looking at the Holy Fury expansion.

I have several of the expansions already..and this one intrigues me. The idea of "shattering" all the kingdoms and duchies down to the county level at the start of the game seems pretty good.

I have about 170 hours in game, and I like building up from a county or two, and seeing how big I can get my empire. In prior attempts, I would run up against a kingdom, and get roffle-stomped.

Who has experience in this expansion? How do you like it? Is it easier to start/expand an empire, as it seems?

*sigh* I'm struggling. I have started, and got crushed, three straight games, using the "shattered" start. The first was in randomly choosing Uppland (Norse). I had 219 troops, ALL other counties around me had 800+. Nope. Not gonna work. I got bigger, they got bigger, I died.

Second attempt was Venice. It's a Duchy, by itself!! I created a one-county Duchy, and got stuck. Water between me and everyone else, and I waited and built up for close to a hundred years, then BOOM! Fratrecelli Uprising. They had 4800 troops, and I had 1100..and no money for mercenaries. The rabble put my head on a pole, outside the castle.

Third attempt. Lisboa. This time, I borrowed 300g immediately, and immediately took the second of two counties needed to make a duchy. It worked!!! My Duke was 38, and the only traits I chose were "genius" and "wounded." This also worked VERY well, as my first born also had the trait genius passed on to him. I gave my brother the second county. Oops! When I had a daughter, he got REALLY cranky..and wanted my throne! Once again, I didn't have enough money to hire mercenaries, and I didn't have enough prestige to revoke his title (takes 50). Like an idiot, I was only 18, and he was 17. I should have waited until I was more solid on my throne. Sadly..I lost this war as well. The biggest shame was that Lisboa (randomly) had FIVE slots for holding. I was going to create three more towns, and be VERY wealthy.

Great game.

..double post.

First time you've ever played?

Quote from: Gusington on September 26, 2019, 09:08:59 PM
First time you've ever played?

No..but it's been several years. I like the new shattered world mechanic..the idea of taking a single county to domination.

It IS open to abuse. Simply save up enough to hire a merc company, and take over three counties, rinse, and repeat. With all counties, no one county has the ability to stand up to you, and very few have defense agreements in place.

I built a very fast duchy, and had a nice head start on my neighbors.

I have only ever played the Irish tutorial campaign, probably close to 8 years ago by now!

I always play Byzantine Empire.

Quote from: Gusington on September 27, 2019, 12:40:34 PM
I have only ever played the Irish tutorial campaign, probably close to 8 years ago by now!

Same here, other than dabbling around in France a time or two.  CK2 remains one of those games that I've never put in the time that it deserves (despite my sincere intentions to do so). 

Quote from: Sardaukar on September 27, 2019, 12:54:27 PM
I always play Byzantine Empire.

I imagine a Byzantine campaign would be both awesome and overwhelming.  So much going on...! 

I don't think I've ever played a campaign outside the British Isles, aside from some dabbling in the Norse, Islamic, and Indian expansions when I first picked them up.  Something about England just fits my playstyle in grand strategy games...

The "shattered" mechanic adds a huge dimension to the game. I started this current game with one small county on the west coast of Wales. I built it up to a three county Duchy. Original Duke died, and now, his son (me) has the petty Kingdom title, and one county, with one bishophoric. My two bro's each inherited one county, both FAR richer than mine.

I am considering revoking their titles..but I can't really. They have more troops. At least they're staying in the family.

When I played CK1, I was always a Byz-guy.
Plenty of infidel neighbors to wack with no bad-boy penalty.

Haven't played CK2 yet.  (I just keep buying the dlc.)

^Heh...me too...I am ambitious that way.

Quote from: Senex on September 29, 2019, 01:19:17 PM
When I played CK1, I was always a Byz-guy.
Plenty of infidel neighbors to wack with no bad-boy penalty.

Haven't played CK2 yet.  (I just keep buying the dlc.)

One of the settings of the new DLC is an UNLIMITED Casus Belli, for all other counties in the world. It can also be set for 25 or 100 years.

This is harder than it seems. You take over several counties, bad things happen when you keel over.

Quote from: Senex on September 29, 2019, 01:19:17 PM
(I just keep buying the dlc.)

I wonder how much longer Paradox will ride the DLC gravy-train before they begin work on Crusader Kings III?  (And you *know* it has to be in the pipeline somewhere, even if it's only in the pre-planning stages; the franchise has become too successful for them to not continue it.) 

CK2 was released over seven years ago, which is a fair chunk of time by gaming standards.  While it's obviously done very well, it also suffers from some serious bloat, thanks at least partially to all the DLC.  It seems like some folks are feeling a bit of DLC "fatigue" as well. 


At some point, one has to start thinking about starting over by giving the series a fresh start with a new game.  Thoughts? 

Quote from: al_infierno on September 27, 2019, 04:37:44 PM
I don't think I've ever played a campaign outside the British Isles, aside from some dabbling in the Norse, Islamic, and Indian expansions when I first picked them up.  Something about England just fits my playstyle in grand strategy games...

Same. I tend to stick with Britain or Ireland  ::)  I think its because of the Plantagenets, or the House of Wessex etc.  I once did Bohemia in the demo when it was out- but oddly I haven't done that. Hmmm.  Ditto for Scotland.

I used to play as Apulia - notably the Hautevilles back in the CK1 days. But I gotta ask when do they plan on stopping the DLCs?

I sure don't play as a paint the map either.  I think in Holy Fury I did a few plays- mostly 20 years or so. I had a Petty King of Kent, and he had three sons. 1st son was a dimwit, and managed to get himself killed in a "spear tossing contest." 2nd son, total jerk, managed to start a revolt. 3rd son was able to keep it together.  But I did something like forge a new sword. It was pretty neat. I don't think I did anything with the Norse...but that's me.

Quote from: CJReich46 on September 30, 2019, 10:10:53 PM

Quote from: al_infierno on September 27, 2019, 04:37:44 PM
I don't think I've ever played a campaign outside the British Isles, aside from some dabbling in the Norse, Islamic, and Indian expansions when I first picked them up.  Something about England just fits my playstyle in grand strategy games...

Same. I tend to stick with Britain or Ireland  ::)  I think its because of the Plantagenets, or the House of Wessex etc.  I once did Bohemia in the demo when it was out- but oddly I haven't done that. Hmmm.  Ditto for Scotland.

I used to play as Apulia - notably the Hautevilles back in the CK1 days. But I gotta ask when do they plan on stopping the DLCs?

Do you remember which expansion allows you to create armor and swords? I don't have it, I wants it!

I sure don't play as a paint the map either.  I think in Holy Fury I did a few plays- mostly 20 years or so. I had a Petty King of Kent, and he had three sons. 1st son was a dimwit, and managed to get himself killed in a "spear tossing contest." 2nd son, total jerk, managed to start a revolt. 3rd son was able to keep it together.  But I did something like forge a new sword. It was pretty neat. I don't think I did anything with the Norse...but that's me.

My fondest memory of CK2 was staying up late one night, playing through an England campaign and having war declared on me by one of my vassals, Fenris the Betrayer, who wanted to replace my ridiculously OP satan-worshipping king with one of his wimpy-ass uncles.  At the exact moment that the notification popped up, a metal song on my shuffle playlist came on where the vocalist starts out belting "TRAITOR, BETRAYER!"  The synchronicity was perfect - good times  ;D  Obviously Fenris didn't live much longer and neither did the rebellion...

Quote from: DennisS on October 01, 2019, 09:17:21 PM

Quote from: CJReich46 on September 30, 2019, 10:10:53 PM

Quote from: al_infierno on September 27, 2019, 04:37:44 PM
I don't think I've ever played a campaign outside the British Isles, aside from some dabbling in the Norse, Islamic, and Indian expansions when I first picked them up.  Something about England just fits my playstyle in grand strategy games...

Same. I tend to stick with Britain or Ireland  ::)  I think its because of the Plantagenets, or the House of Wessex etc.  I once did Bohemia in the demo when it was out- but oddly I haven't done that. Hmmm.  Ditto for Scotland.

I used to play as Apulia - notably the Hautevilles back in the CK1 days. But I gotta ask when do they plan on stopping the DLCs?

Do you remember which expansion allows you to create armor and swords? I don't have it, I wants it!

I sure don't play as a paint the map either.  I think in Holy Fury I did a few plays- mostly 20 years or so. I had a Petty King of Kent, and he had three sons. 1st son was a dimwit, and managed to get himself killed in a "spear tossing contest." 2nd son, total jerk, managed to start a revolt. 3rd son was able to keep it together.  But I did something like forge a new sword. It was pretty neat. I don't think I did anything with the Norse...but that's me.

According to the wiki, Monks & Mystics and Jade Dragon give you access to the "Search for a Smith" option.  https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Artifacts

M&M is decent overall, but I would disable the satanic cult because it's ridiculously game breaking.  Unless you wanna have a playthrough fucking around as a demon-worshipping badass who sacrifices his children to Moloch for eternal life  :coolsmiley:

You say that like it's a bad thing.

It's an awesome thing until you realize you're now playing Satanic Sorcerer Simulator and no longer playing CK2  ;D

SSS!

Good lord.  I had no idea just how much DLC I own for this game I own (and I know it's not even half of what's out there).  :o 

What's more puzzling -- and slightly alarming -- to me, is that I don't even remember getting some of these DLC's, and/or what possessed me to do so. 


I mean, I absolutely remember picking up a lot of the older content:  Legacy of Rome, Rise of Islam, The Republic, The Old Gods, and Sons of Abraham were all expansions I eagerly anticipated. 

But Ruler Designer?  Way of Life?  Reaper's Due?  Horse Lords?  Holy Fury?  Charlemagne?  Not I only do I not recall purchasing most of these, I'm not even sure why I wanted to grab them in the first place.  (Actually, I can understand the appeal of Horse Lords and Charlemagne.) 


The only thing I can think of is that at some point, Paradox must have had a big-time sale on all their CK2 DLC, perhaps wrapped up in a bundle or two.  (It would explain why I also have so much cosmetic content like portraits and music ("Songs of Albion", etc.).)  Sheesh.  ::) 

Crusader Kings II (https://store.steampowered.com/app/203770/Crusader_Kings_II/) appears to be free on Steam.  Not sure if it will be free forever if you grab it, but its free for now anyway...

https://www.pcgamesn.com/crusader-kings-2/free-to-play

Quote from: steve58 on October 18, 2019, 09:32:57 AM
Crusader Kings II (https://store.steampowered.com/app/203770/Crusader_Kings_II/) appears to be free on Steam.  Not sure if it will be free forever if you grab it, but its free for now anyway...

https://www.pcgamesn.com/crusader-kings-2/free-to-play

Steam offers free weekend for another game, as Crusader Kings II can be played gratis for the next free days.

https://www.bluesnews.com/s/204777/crusader-kings-ii-free-weekend

^Some of the million bits of DLC are also on sale @ Humble as well.

I am surprised that everyone does not already own this game and all the DLC:)

I tried this game over and over, but could never get the hang of the UI.  I finally gave up after about the fourth try.


Go ahead.  Call me a blasphemer.

Quote from: FarAway Sooner on October 18, 2019, 10:11:22 PM
I tried this game over and over, but could never get the hang of the UI.  I finally gave up after about the fourth try.


Go ahead.  Call me a blasphemer.

It's definitely the kind of game that requires the right things to "click".  It takes a while to learn how to read the UI at a glance, since it's cluttered with a lot of information, but it helps if you're familiar with other Paradox grand strategy games.

If it helps, all you really need to do to get started, is pay attention to the floating notifications at the top, and pump the clock at 3x or 4x speed.  Those top notifications will let you know about any pressing matters you need to do at the beginning, and once those are taken care of you can just sit back and watch the clock go by and react to events as they pop up, and ignore everything else until you're ready to poke around with the fiddly UI.

https://www.crusaderkings.com/

An Heir is Born in Crusader Kings III.

Crusader Kings III is the newest generation of Paradox Development Studio's beloved medieval role-playing grand strategy game.


Buy the season pass now and get the first 100 DLC at 10% off !!!  :DD

Quote from: Pete Dero on October 19, 2019, 07:22:51 AM
https://www.crusaderkings.com/

An Heir is Born in Crusader Kings III.

Crusader Kings III is the newest generation of Paradox Development Studio's beloved medieval role-playing grand strategy game.


Buy the season pass now and get the first 100 DLC at 10% off !!!  :DD

Wow...I didn't expect Crusader III.  Can't imagine starting all over with the DLC:(  I wonder what will be different, the news didn't say much yet.

I'm with FarAway...tried several times with CKII and it flummoxed me. Will be trying again in a few weeks.

While I wasn't expecting CKIII (which we now have a separate thread for), part of me did think the free-to-play CK2 model was here to stay, not only this weekend. I think that's because I didn't see a clock or anything like that when I stumbled over to check on it for some other reason and surprise, huh, it's ftp now, that makes sense...

Quote from: JasonPratt on October 19, 2019, 08:02:02 PM
While I wasn't expecting CKIII (which we now have a separate thread for), part of me did think the free-to-play CK2 model was here to stay, not only this weekend. I think that's because I didn't see a clock or anything like that when I stumbled over to check on it for some other reason and surprise, huh, it's ftp now, that makes sense...

They changed it recently : the base game of CKII is now free to play permanently.

Looks like you can also pick up The Old Gods DLC (https://www.crusaderkings.com/) for free...sign up/in required tho.

Are the Teutonic Knights playable in any iteration of CKII?

Quote from: Gusington on October 21, 2019, 12:44:33 PM
Are the Teutonic Knights playable in any iteration of CKII?

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/playing-as-teutonic-order.1013162/

Thank you.

Crusader Kings II: The Reaper's Due (https://store.steampowered.com/app/449980/Expansion__Crusader_Kings_II_The_Reapers_Due/) is free (on Steam) to keep when you get it before Mar 9 @ 1:00pm.

Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords (https://store.steampowered.com/app/354330/Expansion__Crusader_Kings_II_Horse_Lords/) is free (on Steam) to keep when you get it before May 16 @ 1:00pm.  Grab it quick.