Anyone who hasn't bought Scourge of War yet, in its Waterloo + DLC (from Steam or Matrix directly), or its Gettysburg + DLC (from Matrix only), had better do so pronto:
QuoteFrom September 1st, we will be delisting all the Scourge of War games from our sites and all other 3rd party sites. The games will no longer be available for purchase, and we will consequently stop all support and assistance.
You have one week to add the titles to your libraries. Once bought, the games will remain in your libraries, and you will still be able to recover purchased games from download links. Steam keys will no longer work to redeem the product, so make sure you download your copy on Steam before the end of this month.
Here's a full list of games that will be going off sale from September 1st:
Redeemable on Steam
Scourge of War Waterloo
Scourge of War Waterloo Collector's Edition
Scourge of War Wavre
Scourge of War Ligny
Scourge of War Quatre Bras
Non redeemable on Steam
Scourge of War Gettysburg
Scourge of War Gettysburg 150th Anniversary Collection
Scourge of War Chancellorsville
Scourge of War Brandy Station
Scourge of War Antietam
Scourge of War Pipe Creek
Obviously, the 150th Anniversary Collection is the way to go for the ACW, although the three main packs are Getty, Chance, and Antietam. (The others are more minor, and I'm not sure any mods require them.)
As sad and kind-of troubling as this is, I hope it means the devs (perhaps reconciling with the original Take Command dev...?) are clearing the way for a new game system for these Age of Rifle battles.
Hopefully they go on to a productive after-life on GoG :dreamer:
Sounds like they won't be sold on any 3rd party markets at all... :'(
I interpret this as Matrix/Slitherine saying they're no longer carrying the Scourge of War series.
Have we heard anything from Norbsoft ?
Something seems to have happened.
Thanks for heads up! Just picked up the Gettysburg 150th Edition!
Is Waterloo worth it?
Bizarre how they're saying that but also maintaining the eye-watering price on it. Never understood why publishers actively delist things like this. Obviously there can be licensing issues and such but ultimately a case like this often seems more like spite- after all, no one can make money at the end of the day if it isn't being sold, and it's not like keeping something listed on Steam takes tremendous active effort.
Quote from: Philippe on August 24, 2022, 04:08:38 PM
I interpret this as Matrix/Slitherine saying they're no longer carrying the Scourge of War series.
Have we heard anything from Norbsoft ?
Something seems to have happened.
Well, the Norbsoft home page hasn't been updated since 2017, and the most recent forum post in any topic appears to be over a month old, so there doesn't seem to be much information there. This does seem extremely strange and sudden.
From what I could read & find, the dev (Norb) is doing well and fine, giving happy signs of life very recently, seems to be in good health, so at least no worries in that regard, and I suppose it is what matters ;)
If it was due to the end of a publishing deal, you might expect him to make these games available again through his own channels, but I suppose that time will tell. I wasn't suffering from many compatibility issues, so I deem business contracts (or rather the end of them) to be the main cause of this termination. If it's the case, after that, it's up to him. A good example might be Sonalysts, which had its games published by EA, then by Strategy First, then by themselves on Steam without too many issues (besides losing all the rights to the Jane's era cutscenes of course which is terrible, but well, ain't the game proper ^^).
But expecting lifelong service & shelf life for digital products is unfortunately a dream that will be less & less obvious as older titles & their makers fade into new lives & deeds. Fortunately still, Norb seems to be easy to get in touch with, I am sure those who might want a statement will know how to reach him.
Here is hoping he is just waiting for the contract to expire and then BAM has a new related title with updated everything ready to go.
Unfortunately that doesn't sound too likely though (I mean, the big update part ^^), from my understanding he's working full time in a totally unrelated job, or so it seems.
But one can dream, I do dream about that one too ;)
Well, they're still doing their 10% summer sale off the entire catalog, so there's that. ::)
In my experience, I don't know of a single title Matrix/Slitherine has delisted which wasn't taken off by its original developers deciding to go their own way. They hold onto everything; they still have DVG's Hornet Leader digital adaptation -- they still have Steel Panthers: World at War -- they still have Korsun Pocket! These are all still for sale, not just available for owners to download and play.
The one game I can't find which might have been delisted for reasons other than the developer/designer taking back the rights, is their doomed online-necessary Down in Flames adaptation; which might have been taken down for technical fallacies. ;) (It's not impossible DVG told them to take it down, but why would DVG leave a fatally bugged version of Hornet Leader on the store...?) Come to think of it, there was an unrelated sci-fi collectable card game that was released around the same time, also online-only (even for single-player), which I don't recall the name of so I can't search for it, but I seem to recall it was also delisted for perhaps the same reasons. (I have the box copy at the house somewhere, but it can't be played anymore without the servers.)
So my guess is that this is a rights-exercise issue. But, the rights issue could be compounded by whatever the problem was between Norbsoft and the original Take Command dev -- whose TC2 game, last time I checked, is still for sale on Steam. (I used it years ago for my "Volunteers" AAR, for example.) I'm not where I can check Steam atm, so I can't confirm it's still there.
Of course, Steam (and Matrix) will still allow access to ScoW for owners (as noted in their press release). But it looks like new players won't be able to buy a Steam key off Gamersgate (like is still true for World War One: Centennial for example. WW1Gold is still for sale at Matrix, btw.)
The Waterloo game totally left the dynamic campaign unfinished. It was supposed to be a big selling point and it was abandoned with just the foundation in place. The real selling point was the command from the saddle MP matches. The dogs of war guys still do weekly matches with this game they are really good.
Tbh, the team headed by kepplemuller (Grand Tactitian)that built the new civil war game kind of took over this niche. Their game is far superior and they are far better devs. Once they add MP and new theaters/ periods, their game will pretty much make scourge obsolete.
Quote from: Skoop on August 25, 2022, 01:01:55 PM
Tbh, the team headed by kepplemuller (Grand Tactitian)that built the new civil war game kind of took over this niche. Their game is far superior and they are far better devs. Once they add MP and new theaters/ periods, their game will pretty much make scourge obsolete.
Not sure apples to apples since Scourge much more focused on tactical, not strategic. I find the tactical part much better in Scourge Civil war, even being older. Maybe that will change over time.
^ I'm inclined to agree with Grim.
Grand Tactician is pretty epic, though.
Quote from: Skoop on August 25, 2022, 01:01:55 PM
The dogs of war guys still do weekly matches with this game they are really good.
Yep, I've played with them several times! O0
Quote from: Skoop on August 25, 2022, 01:01:55 PMTbh, the team headed by kepplemuller (Grand Tactitian)that built the new civil war game kind of took over this niche. Their game is far superior and they are far better devs. Once they add MP and new theaters/ periods, their game will pretty much make scourge obsolete.
Huh, I hadn't thought of that -- good point!
Quote from: Toonces on August 25, 2022, 01:16:51 PM
^ I'm inclined to agree with Grim.
Grand Tactician is pretty epic, though.
Yep, its not a knock on either game, I just think each game is better at something different. Believe Scourge continues to be a better tactical experience for me.
"Tbh, the team headed by kepplemuller (Grand Tactitian)that built the new civil war game kind of took over this niche. Their game is far superior and they are far better devs. Once they add MP and new theaters/ periods, their game will pretty much make scourge obsolete."
Totally agree. I think GT is under-rated. I believe it's by far the best digital representation of the ACW so far.
Did love the Scourge of War in it's time though. Great games as well.
You can set GT up to do everything scourge can in the tactical setting. In fact, might be a good test, play scourge Antietam and compare it with the Antietam standalone scenario in GT and tell me what's better or if they are the same ?
I already have the full Waterloo group on Steam, but never got around to getting Gettysburg from Matrix. Is the common consensus that it will be available again *somewhere* after Sept. 1, or is laying out $72 on Matrix before then the recommended option?
Quote from: Sigwolf on August 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
I already have the full Waterloo group on Steam, but never got around to getting Gettysburg from Matrix. Is the common consensus that it will be available again *somewhere* after Sept. 1, or is laying out $72 on Matrix before then the recommended option?
I'm not sure I would wait. I don't think SoW Gettysburg is available on Steam, so I'm not sure where you would get it if Matrix stops selling. For my money, SoW is the best tactical system. I play and enjoy Grand Tactican, but it recreates the battles at a different organizational level (Brigade/Division), as opposed to the Regimental level of SoW.
Pretty sure you can drill down to regiment level in GT. It's all there. But hey, if you own scourge already then cool, but no way I'd pay full price for a legacy game that's not going to be supported any more.
I fact check myself and the smallest selectable unit in GT is a brigade, though you can visually see 2 regiments graphically represented. Also, changing formations or skirmishers may graphically show companies \ battalions in sprite formations, you still can only select as a brigade.
This is annoying. I have Gettysburg and Chancellorsville. Don't know if i should get the other DLCs or go for the Collection...
Very annoying.
Quote from: Anguille on August 26, 2022, 03:58:55 AM
This is annoying. I have Gettysburg and Chancellorsville. Don't know if i should get the other DLCs or go for the Collection...
Very annoying.
Just curious, if you already own those two, why would you want to purchase the collection at $71.99? If you just bought the remaining modules, it would only cost you $35.97. When the Collection was released, Ian made this statement about the collection which implies really no differences. I guess maybe it might put everything in a single installer and with all the latest patches versus installing separately, only advantage I can see.
The Collection is aimed at people without any of the games already. Brandy station is an add-on just released which is also in the collection. The collection doesn't contain anything you would not get by buying the pieces individually and patching up to the latest version
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on August 26, 2022, 04:43:48 AM
Quote from: Anguille on August 26, 2022, 03:58:55 AM
This is annoying. I have Gettysburg and Chancellorsville. Don't know if i should get the other DLCs or go for the Collection...
Very annoying.
Just curious, if you already own those two, why would you want to purchase the collection at $71.99? If you just bought the remaining modules, it would only cost you $35.97. When the Collection was released, Ian made this statement about the collection which implies really no differences. I guess maybe it might put everything in a single installer and with all the latest patches versus installing separately, only advantage I can see.
The Collection is aimed at people without any of the games already. Brandy station is an add-on just released which is also in the collection. The collection doesn't contain anything you would not get by buying the pieces individually and patching up to the latest version
Thanks. Makes it clearer for me even tough a single installer would be nice.
I'm not sure I'd bother with any ACW Scourge beyond the base game (Gettys), Chancel, and Antietam -- all three of which are standalones. The mod community develops the games now (same for the predecessor Take Command 2), and kind of doubt any mods need those other expansions. Each may have a new map, I guess? (And a new sorted order of battle, but the mods do that, too.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 26, 2022, 08:34:47 AM
I'm not sure I'd bother with any ACW Scourge beyond the base game (Gettys), Chancel, and Antietam -- all three of which are standalones. The mod community develops the games now (same for the predecessor Take Command 2), and kind of doubt any mods need those other expansions. Each may have a new map, I guess? (And a new sorted order of battle, but the mods do that, too.)
Well, for those that don't already have any of them and are looking to get them before the end of the month, those three currently cost $71.97. I think it would be probably be worth the extra $0.02 to get the collection for $71.99 that also includes Brandy Station and Pipe Creek... ;D
True, the collection is worth it! -- I was just thinking in terms of filling out the collection. I'm not much in favor of spending $40+ for a couple of minor expansions I don't already have.
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 26, 2022, 08:34:47 AM
I'm not sure I'd bother with any ACW Scourge beyond the base game (Gettys), Chancel, and Antietam -- all three of which are standalones. The mod community develops the games now (same for the predecessor Take Command 2), and kind of doubt any mods need those other expansions. Each may have a new map, I guess? (And a new sorted order of battle, but the mods do that, too.)
Minor Correction: I believe Antietam is a DLC to Gettysburg. Not that it matters. I heartily agree that if the subject matter interests you, I would buy them now, because they are not available on Steam. (or anywhere else as far as I know).
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 26, 2022, 08:34:47 AM
I'm not sure I'd bother with any ACW Scourge beyond the base game (Gettys), Chancel, and Antietam -- all three of which are standalones. The mod community develops the games now (same for the predecessor Take Command 2), and kind of doubt any mods need those other expansions. Each may have a new map, I guess? (And a new sorted order of battle, but the mods do that, too.)
Any mod suggestions ?
Saw this posted by one of the Matrix staff, although was already thought this way, pretty much confirmed no plans for Norbsoft to sell and support in any other way.
The developer is not planning to continue selling the games or supporting them.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on August 26, 2022, 12:32:18 PM
Saw this posted by one of the Matrix staff, although was already thought this way, pretty much confirmed no plans for Norbsoft to sell and support in any other way.
The developer is not planning to continue selling the games or supporting them.
Damn. Having the series expanded was always one of my hopes. Well, there is now an unserved niche that some enterprising developer could fill: A regimental sized USCW game with HITS and order delay. I'm truly sorry to see Norbsoft get out of the market.
That wording (which I also reported before) is suspicious to me: he isn't going to continue selling or supporting THESE games.
That could still mean plans to develop a modern update. Wishful thinking no doubt.
Re mods, I'll be check with Asid at the Dogs of War, see what he knows.
Quote from: Tripoli on August 26, 2022, 11:18:47 AM
Minor Correction: I believe Antietam is a DLC to Gettysburg. Not that it matters.
Verified, yep! Good catch. It's a much larger expansion than the other two (which are related to the Getty battle), and I knew Chance was standalone -- my brain apparently conflated the correlation. ::)
The whole thing is odd to me. I fully understand announcing the end of support for the games, they are quite old. What makes no sense is announcing they will no longer be available to buy, and in a very short time-frame, at that. There are hundreds of older, completely unsupported games for sale on any storefront you care to look. If you don't care about making any further money from them, release them for free (which is also not unprecedented with older games).
It makes no sense to announce that two weeks from now you will not be able to acquire these games in any way. What's the logic in that?
Quote from: Sigwolf on August 27, 2022, 07:22:10 AM
The whole thing is odd to me. I fully understand announcing the end of support for the games, they are quite old. What makes no sense is announcing they will no longer be available to buy, and in a very short time-frame, at that. There are hundreds of older, completely unsupported games for sale on any storefront you care to look. If you don't care about making any further money from them, release them for free (which is also not unprecedented with older games).
It makes no sense to announce that two weeks from now you will not be able to acquire these games in any way. What's the logic in that?
I am guessing the games will have an after-life somewhere. But Norbsoft is probably taking its time to get there.
You also got to ask yourself, if you haven't bought and played the scourge series or picked up these extra dlc until now, why bother ? Is it fomo ? And now some of you are gona spend 70bucks because it's going away ? I'd make a suggestion that I bet this will turn up as free abandonware in a few years where a modding community continues on with the game. Just kinda seems like a cash grab to me. It really should be free to play if it's end of life for scourge.
Quote from: Sigwolf on August 27, 2022, 07:22:10 AM
The whole thing is odd to me. I fully understand announcing the end of support for the games, they are quite old. What makes no sense is announcing they will no longer be available to buy, and in a very short time-frame, at that. There are hundreds of older, completely unsupported games for sale on any storefront you care to look. If you don't care about making any further money from them, release them for free (which is also not unprecedented with older games).
It makes no sense to announce that two weeks from now you will not be able to acquire these games in any way. What's the logic in that?
Really, really, good points. The only thing they should need to do is provide Caveat Emptor for the purchaser when it comes to support and OS compatibility.
If the publisher simply lost the rights to sell the game I could understand, but that is doubtful. What is dissappointing is that they never released the whole series on steam. I was waiting for that to happen.
Yeah -- I don't think even SoW :Waterloo has a workshop on Steam.... {checking} nope.
Mental note again to check with the Dogs on current mods for SoW games.
Edited to add: also checked with TC2, also no workshop. (Though I know there are mods for that, including something like a civil war campaign which features 1st Bull Run on which TC1 was based.)
Scourge of War is dead. Long live Scourge of War!
https://www.norbsoftdev.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=79917
QuoteThe games will no longer be for sale for the 'hopefully' short term. NSD has parted ways with Slitherine and thanks them for the many years of support.
Our suspicions have been confirmed! -- Norb is just parting ways with Matrix-litherine to work on a new version! :notworthy:
Admittedly, this is only a statement of intention. But still, he must have had a strong enough intention to opt out of publication with Matrix.
Scourge of War: Gettysburg is on sale now for 50% off ($26.40). If you were thinking about taking the plunge, now is not a bad time.
https://www.matrixgames.com/game/scourge-of-war-gettysburg-150th-anniversary-collection
These are all great news O0
...less than 48 hours after I said to myself, "Dangit, why not just take the overall 10% off summer sale and pick up Brandy Station and whatever the other DLC is, Pipe Creek...?"
Ah well. A little more cash presumably to Norb before he and Matrix split the sheets. I can't really grudge it.
Waterloo collection also on sale, down to $39.99. All the individual items seem to be on a deeper sale now as well.
Quote from: Tripoli on August 28, 2022, 09:18:09 PM
Scourge of War: Gettysburg is on sale now for 50% off ($26.40). If you were thinking about taking the plunge, now is not a bad time.
https://www.matrixgames.com/game/scourge-of-war-gettysburg-150th-anniversary-collection
Actually 67% off. After mulling it all week at the $71 sale price, I decided to wait it out and see what and when it would go for when Norb re-released it. At $26, it seemed worth getting now. I've been revisiting, and enjoying Waterloo all week, so this seemed a fair price in the event it truly is not available again in the future.
Quote from: Tripoli on August 28, 2022, 09:18:09 PM
Scourge of War: Gettysburg is on sale now for 50% off ($26.40). If you were thinking about taking the plunge, now is not a bad time.
https://www.matrixgames.com/game/scourge-of-war-gettysburg-150th-anniversary-collection
No steam = no buy. I will just never install it without the ease of steam. It's like buying a book and storing it deep in your garage. You might find it again in 10yrs time.
For things that highly motivate me like Star Citizen and DCS I can handle a separate client. But not for occasional play games like this. I just hope the demos will still be around. See what happens.
It isn't that hard for me to find Matrix games on my Matrix site page, if I remember I want to play them (and/or checking to see if I own them already. ;) ) It's no harder than checking through my Steam stuff, or GoG for that matter. (Well, slightly harder: I can't search for what I own on GoG or Matrix, exactly, only see the list and sort it various ways. Checking the store page doesn't show I own it either. Same with Gamersgate, if I recall correctly.)
I can certainly sympathize with not having one more login/password with potential credit card or Paypal access, tho!
Latest news from the Scourge of War Board.
Scourge of War Update
Post by norb » Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:17 am
After taking a few years off, we are back looking at the games and what can be done to make them better. The games will no longer be for sale for the 'hopefully' short term. NSD has parted ways with Slitherine and thanks them for the many years of support.
NSD Programmer/Producer
//https://www.norbsoftdev.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=79917
Quote from: MC on August 29, 2022, 08:28:56 AM
Latest news from the Scourge of War Board.
Scourge of War Update
Post by norb » Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:17 am
After taking a few years off, we are back looking at the games and what can be done to make them better. The games will no longer be for sale for the 'hopefully' short term. NSD has parted ways with Slitherine and thanks them for the many years of support.
NSD Programmer/Producer
//https://www.norbsoftdev.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=79917
From what I can tell, this announcement was apparently unforeseen the Scourge of War community. While good news, it remains to be seen how quickly they can produce a new product. I'm sure they are going to make it Win 11 compatible, and there are other features (getting rid of the "conga line" formation issue will probably high on the list). I'm certainly looking forward to whatever they come up with, as there really isn't anything else in this niche. However, I suspect it will be a year+ wait, especially as they appear to only now to begin to look at the games. In other words, this has not been an ongoing project, but one they have only recently adopted.
Gettysburg 150th Edition is a no-brainer at $26 IMO. I've been playing it for years just using the skirmish mode.
When I bought mine from Matrix I got a Steam key as well. Not sure if that's still the case.
Quote from: Toonces on August 29, 2022, 09:09:12 AM
Gettysburg 150th Edition is a no-brainer at $26 IMO. I've been playing it for years just using the skirmish mode.
When I bought mine from Matrix I got a Steam key as well. Not sure if that's still the case.
Never got a key for Gettysburg. Did the game ever have a Steam release ?
Quote from: Pete Dero on August 29, 2022, 09:19:09 AM
Quote from: Toonces on August 29, 2022, 09:09:12 AM
Gettysburg 150th Edition is a no-brainer at $26 IMO. I've been playing it for years just using the skirmish mode.
When I bought mine from Matrix I got a Steam key as well. Not sure if that's still the case.
Never got a key for Gettysburg. Did the game ever have a Steam release ?
No, only Waterloo got a Steam release (I believe).
On a UI annoyance front... anyone know of a way to turn off the menu music in Gettysburg? There's a music volume slider in the Waterloo options that isn't present in Gettysburg. Is there possibly an option that can be typed into the ini file?
The options page has 2 pages: Go to page 2 by clicking on the circled button. Then you can set your music on/off (See circled buttons in image 2)
Nope, already tried that. That toggle only affects in-scenario marching music, it does nothing for the looping menu music.
Quote from: Sigwolf on August 29, 2022, 01:00:33 PM
Nope, already tried that. That toggle only affects in-scenario marching music, it does nothing for the looping menu music.
In the directory Music (Scourge of War/Base/Music) you rename (or remove) the file SOWGB_intro.mp3 to stop the menu music.
That did it. Thanks, Pete!
Well, I could not stand it. The $26 sale price sucked me into buying SoW Gettysburg
And I picked up War Plan Orange for $4 to make it a nice even $30. Heaven only knows when I'll find time to play. Back to Shadow Empire.
The sales price grabbed me as well. But I know had originally bought Gettysburg directly from Norbsoft, back when they were selling it direct.
But I can't find any evidence of that...so I bought the game again.