Mark McLaughlin's classic board game "War and Peace," first published by Avalon Hill, is being ported to the PC.
The game is a grand strategy game covering the Napoleonic Wars. It has seen somewhat of a rebirth in the past several years, after a popular upgrade / reprint by One Small Step publishing.
I am somewhat ambivalent about war board game conversions to the PC, and can't think of one I really like.
Still I am going to be following this one:
Me too Tank. But if they even come close, I'm all in. More detailed than NTW and more playable than the AGEOD game would be right in the Sweet Spot for me. And this time, my cat can't destroy the Grand Armee outside of Moscow. O0
I recall a fan project a few years ago for updating Matrix's Empires In Arms boardgame adaptation, that I never got around to testing. Or playing. :hide: But I could tell the attempt at patching and upgrading was truly noble!
I once owned War and Peace- I learned so much about the Napoleonic era from that, I too will be keep my eyes on this one.
Sillysoft dot net has a good "Risk" clone called Lux Delux
Quote from: ArizonaTank on October 06, 2022, 09:37:52 AM
Mark McLaughlin's classic board game "War and Peace," first published by Avalon Hill, is being ported to the PC.
The game is a grand strategy game covering the Napoleonic Wars. It has seen somewhat of a rebirth in the past several years, after a popular upgrade / reprint by One Small Step publishing.
I am somewhat ambivalent about war board game conversions to the PC, and can't think of one I really like.
Still I am going to be following this one:
There have indeed been some poor ones, but some more professionally done examples include Pavlov's House, Twilight Struggle & Labyrinth. OK, you can argue the latter two aren't traditional wargames, but they are still good conversions of board games. I think its a growing trend - IMO many board games are better than modern PC games for gameplay & immersion, and I welcome their being converted to the PC format to enable true solitaire play & of course being able to play without a large table!
First day buy. I'm going to go down to the game room (My wife let's me have one. Thanks, honey!) and get the War and Peace rules out to prepare.
Quote from: em2nought on October 07, 2022, 06:38:38 AM
Sillysoft dot net has a good "Risk" clone called Lux Delux
They have quite a few Napoleonic scenarios available to download. Quite fun when you don't want to get involved in something but still have the urge to play. O0
Kickstarter live plus a demo available on that page...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/787937257/war-and-peace-the-digital-version?ref=profile_saved_projects_live
Backed. Was one of my favorites from the old Avalon Hill catalog though I only got to play it PvP a few times.
Fingers crossed they do it justice. Good to know Mr. McLaughlin is involved.
Anybody trying-out the demo?
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 15, 2022, 09:22:29 AM
Anybody trying-out the demo?
Turns out the demo doesn't have an AI so not going to invest much time in it....already backed it so they don't need to convince me any further:)
Unlike the board game, the digital version has no Grand Campaign 1805-1815. At least not yet. Big disappointment if it doesn't show up in the released version.
Quote from: Senex on October 22, 2022, 11:20:57 AM
Unlike the board game, the digital version has no Grand Campaign 1805-1815. At least not yet. Big disappointment if it doesn't show up in the released version.
Agree, the real meat is the GC.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8PNHtkGD/image.png)
Grand Campaign is there. Not in the demo but included in the actual game.
Thanks for the information - and the warning.
Not a fan of computer games without AI.
Will wait till they get a robo player in there.
Heck, if I want computer War Peace without AI, I can already get the Vassal module
https://vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:War_and_Peace (https://vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:War_and_Peace)
Quote from: ArizonaTank on October 23, 2022, 02:11:46 PM
Not a fan of computer games without AI.
Will wait till they get a robo player in there.
Heck, if I want computer War Peace without AI, I can already get the Vassal module
https://vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:War_and_Peace (https://vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:War_and_Peace)
I read that as the AI is in for the scenarios, just not the campaign. Anyone?
Yes, it says "solitaire play against the AI" for the fourteen scenarios. The is no AI yet for the Grand Campaign because that includes AI considerations that don't occur in the scenarios (production, diplomacy, naval warfare, etc.).
Releases August 24th.....have had it as part of my kickstarter reward but really haven't touched it yet....
ABOUT THIS GAME
WAR AND PEACE
AVALON DIGITAL has captured the look, feel, challenge, and excitement of the classic board game War and Peace and brought it to life on your computer. Solo mode against the AI in some scenarios allows you to become Napoleon as you lead your armies from the fields of France to the steppes of Russia, and from the deserts of Egypt to the mountains of Spain. Or you stand against him as Blucher, Kutuzov, the Duke of Wellington, or any of a score of other famous generals as you plan your strategies to turn the tide of the Napoleonic Wars. And you can play all scenarios and campaigns in multiplayer (2 players).
Fight on land and at sea in short scenarios that cover every major strategic operation from 1796 to 1815, or do it all in a grand campaign that may – or may not – end on the field of Waterloo.
SCALE
War and Peace is a monthly turn-based, hex-based (40 miles each), strategic game.
Dozens of individually named and rated generals lead armies composed of abstract strength points each representing roughly 5,000 men infantry or cavalry and their intrinsic artillery.
Every major – and minor – power of the Napoleonic Wars is represented with its own set of individual pieces, each of which is depicted by square counters illustrated with a soldier attired in the uniform unique to their nation and type.
The mix of forces includes everything from Spanish partisans and Prussian Landwehr on up to Russian Cossacks and Napoleon's Old Guard, and more.
The game also includes squadrons of ships of the line and transports with which players can wage both a global naval struggle – or recreate the situations that led to the epic clashes at the Nile, Copenhagen, and, of course, Trafalgar.
CONTENT
The game contains
Different playing modes: solitaire play against the AI
All the historical scenarios from the boardgame. Some have been thoroughly tested to be solo against AI (and can also be played in multiplayer mode), others are 2-players multiplayer-only for now (the Solo vs AI will come during the next months).
- THE ITALIAN CAMPAIGN OF 1796–97
- THE ARMY OF THE ORIENT, BONAPARTE IN EGYPT 1798–99
- MARENGO: 1800
- THE SUN OF AUSTERLITZ — 1805
- THE CAMPAIGN IN RUSSIA — 1812
- NAPOLEON AT BAY — 1814
- NAPOLEON'S APOGEE: 1806–1807
- WAGRAM — 1809
- STRUGGLE OF NATIONS — 1813
- THE WATERLOO CAMPAIGN — 1815
- THE PENINSULAR WAR: 1808–1814
- SPAIN: 1811–1814
- THE FINAL GLORY: 1812–1814
Varied Hex maps with a scale of 40 miles per hex, weather zones, major cities for production and victory.
6 Major Powers, playable inside Pro or Anti-French Alliance, dozens of minor nations and powers.
5 different types of infantry, 3 of cavalry, all rated for their morale (i.e. quality) levels
Warship or Transport naval squadrons
All main historical leaders present
March to the sounds of guns, conduct forced marches, fight pitched battles, entrench your armies, lay siege, and engage in amphibious, economic, and guerrilla warfare
Production system for the grand campaign to create your own reinforcements
Turn-based system, scale of one month per turn, with different phases: Attrition, Alliance, Reinforcements, Movement and Combat.
An elegant, easy-to-understand on-screen guide that will walk you through every sequence of play and help you better understand the nuances and depth of choices and strategies available.
Available in English and in French upon release, with Spanish, German, Russian and Chinese coming in a few months afterwards.
No internet connection required to play against the AI
THE GRAND CAMPAIGN GAME – WAR AND PEACE 1805-1815: a complete campaign covering the entire Napoleonic Wars, with production, diplomacy, foreign wars, land and naval warfare.
2 Players MP Only: this campaign is only playable in multiplayer mode for now, as the AI work on a project of this scope is daunting and will be made over time.
We prefer to have a playable 2-player multiplayer mode rather than an unfinished and unsatisfactory AI that would not render justice to the game.
PLAY DURATION
Estimated Playtime: 1 to Many Hours.
HISTORY
Although first published in 1980 by the Avalon Hill Company, War and Peace has continued to evolve thanks to a dedicated fan base whose contributions have enhanced the game while retaining the original core set of basic rules. AVALON DIGITAL has taken the most recent of those versions, the 6th Edition which came out in 2021 and faithfully adapted it to the computer. Original designer Mark G. McLaughlin and his more recent co-designer, John Gant, have shepherded the board game through the latest of its six iterations.
The original rules and scenarios remain intact, with additional scenarios set in Italy and the Levant to recreate Napoleon's early campaigns. Anyone who loved the board game will find the system familiar in every way.
John thoroughly revised and enhanced the original grand campaign for the 5th and 6th editions, with Mark's wholehearted approval and gratitude. In order to further ensure that they get every aspect of War and Peace correct, AVALON DIGITAL has retained Mark as one of the lead playtesters and consultants for the computer version of his classic and much-beloved design.
War and Peace by AVALON DIGITAL is more than just a simple port of a board game to the computer; it is also a labor of love by an international team of historians and wargamers for whom this game is THE game on the Napoleonic Wars.
ONGOING AND FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS
As mentioned above, the biggest challenge for a development team in a game like War and Peace is to create an AI that can prove to be challenging to players. We and the beta testers of the game (recruited from the Kickstarter campaign, see below) found a good balance and status in 6 of the game's scenarios. For the other scenarios and campaign, the AI is still work in progress and we felt safer to keep the 2-players multiplayer version only for release.
Our development team, who has created the acclaimed Carrier Battles game is working hard and continuously on the AI and will provide regular free updates to it.
We conducted a survey last Spring to see with our testers and backers if they wanted the game to release now, or wait till everything was in place to do so. Most wanted the immediate release, as they feel the game is good enough to be a wonderful experience, and a current release will increase the number of potential players to join in multiplayer sessions.
Will have to wait for the AI here, dont play multi anymore
Ai does exist just not for everything
Will the multiplayer enable play by email? I have most of the Avalon Digital games ... but unfortunately they don't have a PBEM capability. I would love if they did!!!
Quote from: rwenstrup on August 13, 2023, 02:16:27 PMWill the multiplayer enable play by email? I have most of the Avalon Digital games ... but unfortunately they don't have a PBEM capability. I would love if they did!!!
No. A quote from the developer.
No, the gameplay structure (especially battles) does not allow for a good email play. But the game is crossplatform multiplayer, so you can play it with your friends
As much as I want to believe in this project, I just can't see myself buying a game that has no AI for the campaign game. I'll wait.
^Me too.
Step 1: copy rules from pdf or something.
Step 2: paste rules into ChatGPT or whatever.
Step 3: tell the AI to learn the rules and figure out how to play the game.
Step 4: ??
Step 5: the AI starts complaining that Empire in Arms is better but that only God really knows how to play that.
Step x: new EiA patch is released from Matrix by a fan of the game.
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 15, 2023, 12:33:19 PMStep 1: copy rules from pdf or something.
Step 2: paste rules into ChatGPT or whatever.
Step 3: tell the AI to learn the rules and figure out how to play the game.
Step 4: ??
Step 5: the AI starts complaining that Empire in Arms is better but that only God really knows how to play that.
Step x: new EiA patch is released from Matrix by a fan of the game.
The "??" in step four represents the AI hallucinating :)
Can AI have a nervous breakdown?
Quote from: Gusington on August 15, 2023, 01:07:46 PMCan AI have a nervous breakdown?
I think he was heading that way in the key re-sellers thread...
Of course one shouldn't joke about mental health...I was initially going to come into this thread to say that this is the sort of information that I treasure about Grogs - I never would have heard about this game otherwise and now it's on my wishlist
:cool:
Quote from: ArizonaTank on August 15, 2023, 08:21:05 AMAs much as I want to believe in this project, I just can't see myself buying a game that has no AI for the campaign game. I'll wait.
The developer now calls AI in the campaign game almost impossible.
Really? Are they having second thoughts pulling off what they promised?
To be fair, while I love the War and Peace boardgame, the campaign is a bolt-on to that as well, and does not really work. The boardgame excels as an operational Napoleonics game but the campaign goes through a lot of pain and hands-tying rules and exceptions to give a historic flow. It's not a good look for any PC game to have a long campaign without AI (because most people coming in without knowledge of the boardgame will consider the campaign THE game), but I can understand it in this case.
But to be fair, they advertised eventually having it so if they don't deliver it, will be interesting to see how that turns out
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 02, 2023, 01:01:27 PMBut to be fair, they advertised eventually having it so if they don't deliver it, will be interesting to see how that turns out
Yeah if they promised it that's a different matter.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 02, 2023, 01:01:27 PMBut to be fair, they advertised eventually having it so if they don't deliver it, will be interesting to see how that turns out
"Eventually" can be a long, long time.
Somebody failed to clear the US rights for Avalon Hill's boardgame "War and Peace", so the new name is "Napoleon's Eagles". IOS version due out in early March, to be followed by an Android one.