Get a load of this. Popped up in my FB feed.
https://www.steamclaims.com/?fbclid=IwAR2Rc0jNaZb7u3zxR4QoA0yGgpE02MgKHb8G15rLxf5z3A18rH6maFemeuo_aem_AXaZ7IKwjq3kS1s4LNgx9lNDIY-f6A9B0PGBHb9_6S3VFqOPj8kBcE0HOVQrHWG9Sh_yKRVac7_6eFFKZNGY-es1fjkOJQI9C8ZlEjUt7sHpGfbgnXRl9I3kepyDatGLYwk (https://www.steamclaims.com/?fbclid=IwAR2Rc0jNaZb7u3zxR4QoA0yGgpE02MgKHb8G15rLxf5z3A18rH6maFemeuo_aem_AXaZ7IKwjq3kS1s4LNgx9lNDIY-f6A9B0PGBHb9_6S3VFqOPj8kBcE0HOVQrHWG9Sh_yKRVac7_6eFFKZNGY-es1fjkOJQI9C8ZlEjUt7sHpGfbgnXRl9I3kepyDatGLYwk)
I wouldn't read too much into it. I'd bet you money that there are dozens of people suing Valve (along with every other company above a certain size) every year for this kind of thing hoping to get a few bucks out of a settlement. It won't go anywhere.
^ That's not stopping me from signing up in the off-chance this one does go somewhere.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 03, 2022, 01:19:14 AM
Get a load of this. Popped up in my FB feed.
https://www.steamclaims.com/?fbclid=IwAR2Rc0jNaZb7u3zxR4QoA0yGgpE02MgKHb8G15rLxf5z3A18rH6maFemeuo_aem_AXaZ7IKwjq3kS1s4LNgx9lNDIY-f6A9B0PGBHb9_6S3VFqOPj8kBcE0HOVQrHWG9Sh_yKRVac7_6eFFKZNGY-es1fjkOJQI9C8ZlEjUt7sHpGfbgnXRl9I3kepyDatGLYwk (https://www.steamclaims.com/?fbclid=IwAR2Rc0jNaZb7u3zxR4QoA0yGgpE02MgKHb8G15rLxf5z3A18rH6maFemeuo_aem_AXaZ7IKwjq3kS1s4LNgx9lNDIY-f6A9B0PGBHb9_6S3VFqOPj8kBcE0HOVQrHWG9Sh_yKRVac7_6eFFKZNGY-es1fjkOJQI9C8ZlEjUt7sHpGfbgnXRl9I3kepyDatGLYwk)
How do we know if these guys are legit?
Quote from: ArizonaTank on November 03, 2022, 01:01:24 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 03, 2022, 01:19:14 AM
Get a load of this. Popped up in my FB feed.
https://www.steamclaims.com/?fbclid=IwAR2Rc0jNaZb7u3zxR4QoA0yGgpE02MgKHb8G15rLxf5z3A18rH6maFemeuo_aem_AXaZ7IKwjq3kS1s4LNgx9lNDIY-f6A9B0PGBHb9_6S3VFqOPj8kBcE0HOVQrHWG9Sh_yKRVac7_6eFFKZNGY-es1fjkOJQI9C8ZlEjUt7sHpGfbgnXRl9I3kepyDatGLYwk (https://www.steamclaims.com/?fbclid=IwAR2Rc0jNaZb7u3zxR4QoA0yGgpE02MgKHb8G15rLxf5z3A18rH6maFemeuo_aem_AXaZ7IKwjq3kS1s4LNgx9lNDIY-f6A9B0PGBHb9_6S3VFqOPj8kBcE0HOVQrHWG9Sh_yKRVac7_6eFFKZNGY-es1fjkOJQI9C8ZlEjUt7sHpGfbgnXRl9I3kepyDatGLYwk)
How do we know if these guys are legit?
https://zaigerllc.com/
Seems pretty legit to me. Even if they're not, all you're giving them is your contact information. It's not like they're asking for your credit card number.
Quote from: al_infierno on November 03, 2022, 12:51:52 PM
^ That's not stopping me from signing up in the off-chance this one does go somewhere.
The downside would be, ironically, if there WAS some giant settlement, you're singing away your rights to a potentially larger share of it by going with these guys and agreeing to abide by the terms they decide
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on November 03, 2022, 01:15:43 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on November 03, 2022, 12:51:52 PM
^ That's not stopping me from signing up in the off-chance this one does go somewhere.
The downside would be, ironically, if there WAS some giant settlement, you're singing away your rights to a potentially larger share of it by going with these guys and agreeing to abide by the terms they decide
What's the alternative? Hiring my own attorney and spending a fortune to try and get an individual settlement? If these guys are already doing the leg work, I might as well sign up and get some extra bucks out of it.
I was led to believe (at least on this side of the pond) that the danger with these sorts of things is that if they lose you have to pay up.
Quote from: al_infierno on November 03, 2022, 01:18:38 PM
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on November 03, 2022, 01:15:43 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on November 03, 2022, 12:51:52 PM
^ That's not stopping me from signing up in the off-chance this one does go somewhere.
The downside would be, ironically, if there WAS some giant settlement, you're singing away your rights to a potentially larger share of it by going with these guys and agreeing to abide by the terms they decide
What's the alternative? Hiring my own attorney and spending a fortune to try and get an individual settlement? If these guys are already doing the leg work, I might as well sign up and get some extra bucks out of it.
Not that this is a realistic outcome, but the scenario would be if you really did have, say, $1 million of damages, you could pay an attorney $20,000 and win, but here you're waiving that right so if the class action firm negotiates a settlement where they get $20 million and you get $7.18, you have no recourse. Which by the way is exactly how these firms make money on the rare occasions they win a case.
QuoteI was led to believe (at least on this side of the pond) that the danger with these sorts of things is that if they lose you have to pay up.
Not in the US, where you are free to file nearly endless frivolous lawsuits to your heart's content.
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on November 03, 2022, 01:38:46 PM
Not that this is a realistic outcome, but the scenario would be if you really did have, say, $1 million of damages, you could pay an attorney $20,000 and win, but here you're waiving that right so if the class action firm negotiates a settlement where they get $20 million and you get $7.18, you have no recourse. Which by the way is exactly how these firms make money on the rare occasions they win a case.
I think calling it "pay an attorney $20,000 and win" is greatly reductive. Valve is a mega-corporation who certainly has at least a company-sized element of lawyers on retainer to fight cases exactly like this.
But yeah, you're generally correct and I'm well aware that's how these cases work. If the lawyers didn't take the lion's share, they'd have no motivation to pursue the case. In any case, I don't plan on suing Valve any time soon, so dropping my name in the hat doesn't cost me anything. :bd:
Considering how much less I've paid via Steam than the old days of buying in box games off the shelf I'm not sure how the "overpaying" line will sway me.
Quote from: al_infierno on November 03, 2022, 01:49:37 PM
I think calling it "pay an attorney $20,000 and win" is greatly reductive. Valve is a mega-corporation who certainly has at least a company-sized element of lawyers on retainer to fight cases exactly like this.
Oh yeah, I don't mean to imply you would win. You have not legally precluded yourself from winning. But then neither have I precluded myself from winning an Oscar, Grammy, and World Series in the next five minutes. That won't happen either.
Don't sue big companies. You'll lose. Simple as that.
Quote from: al_infierno on November 03, 2022, 01:49:37 PMQuote from: CaptainKoloth on November 03, 2022, 01:38:46 PMNot that this is a realistic outcome, but the scenario would be if you really did have, say, $1 million of damages, you could pay an attorney $20,000 and win, but here you're waiving that right so if the class action firm negotiates a settlement where they get $20 million and you get $7.18, you have no recourse. Which by the way is exactly how these firms make money on the rare occasions they win a case.
I think calling it "pay an attorney $20,000 and win" is greatly reductive. Valve is a mega-corporation who certainly has at least a company-sized element of lawyers on retainer to fight cases exactly like this.
But yeah, you're generally correct and I'm well aware that's how these cases work. If the lawyers didn't take the lion's share, they'd have no motivation to pursue the case. In any case, I don't plan on suing Valve any time soon, so dropping my name in the hat doesn't cost me anything. :bd:
Lawyers in cases that are handled on contingency generally take a third of whatever they recover. If they recover $1,000,000, they will generally take $333,333, as their fee, not including disbursements. That may seem like a lot, but there is a tremendous amount of work put into these cases and the lawyer bears all the risk. If the lawyer loses the case, he gets a big fat zilch. In a case like this, your damages, as a Steam user will not approach anything close to "$1,000,000" so the position that you're waiving rights or giving up on a potential windfall by signing onto a member of this class is pretty silly. Your damages, at best, unless you have bought every title available on Steam and were somehow swindled out of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars is going to be relatively nominal.
And firms that specialize in class action lawsuits generally do not commence frivolous suits that they cannot win. This is not like some bullshit trip and fall. The rules that are required to certify a class for such a lawsuit are complex and extremely costly. These guys generally are not ambulance chasers.
It is true, however, that parties to lawsuits in the United States generally do not recover legal fees, unless there is a provision in a contract entitling a party to their legal fees and costs, or there is some statute that awards attorney's fees as a category of damages.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 03, 2022, 04:46:28 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on November 03, 2022, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on November 03, 2022, 01:38:46 PM
Not that this is a realistic outcome, but the scenario would be if you really did have, say, $1 million of damages, you could pay an attorney $20,000 and win, but here you're waiving that right so if the class action firm negotiates a settlement where they get $20 million and you get $7.18, you have no recourse. Which by the way is exactly how these firms make money on the rare occasions they win a case.
I think calling it "pay an attorney $20,000 and win" is greatly reductive. Valve is a mega-corporation who certainly has at least a company-sized element of lawyers on retainer to fight cases exactly like this.
But yeah, you're generally correct and I'm well aware that's how these cases work. If the lawyers didn't take the lion's share, they'd have no motivation to pursue the case. In any case, I don't plan on suing Valve any time soon, so dropping my name in the hat doesn't cost me anything. :bd:
Lawyers in cases that are handled on contingency generally take a third of whatever they recover. If they recover $1,000,000, they will generally take $333,333,333, as their fee, not including disbursements. That may seem like a lot, but there is a tremendous amount of work put into these cases and the lawyer bears all the risk. If the lawyer loses the case, he gets a big fat zilch. In a case like this, your damages, as a Steam user will not approach anything close to "$1,000,000" so the position that you're waiving rights or giving up on a potential windfall by signing onto a member of this class is pretty silly. Your damages, at best, unless you have bought every title available on Steam and were somehow swindled out of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars is going to be relatively nominal.
And firms that specialize in class action lawsuits generally do not commence frivolous suits that they cannot win. This is not like some bullshit trip and fall. The rules that are required to certify a class for such a lawsuit are complex and extremely costly. These guys generally are not ambulance chasers.
It is true, however, that parties to lawsuits in the United States generally do not recover legal fees, unless there is a provision in a contract entitling a party to their legal fees and costs, or there is some statute that awards attorney's fees as a category of damages.
Well as I recall you are a lawyer, so I defer to you on this.
I still want my million dollars from Gabe Newell though.
Steam has saved me big bucks as I only buy the deeply discounted sales. Why would I sue?
Will the litigation be serious enough to badly damage or even bankrupt Steam?
I am guessing Steam is wealthy and profitable enough to survive any lawsuit, but really I have no clue and am selfishly panicking about my games collection.
If only we knew a lawyer that would pro bono defend my erm, our games collections.
Quote from: Uberhaus on November 03, 2022, 09:40:46 PM
Will the litigation be serious enough to badly damage or even bankrupt Steam?
Absolutely, 110% no. I bet Steam makes enough money to make Elon Musk blush.
Quote from: al_infierno on November 03, 2022, 09:43:45 PM
Quote from: Uberhaus on November 03, 2022, 09:40:46 PM
Will the litigation be serious enough to badly damage or even bankrupt Steam?
Absolutely, 110% no. I bet Steam makes enough money to make Elon Musk blush.
Not quite. I have it from very reliable sources. This is about the only time in my Internet career where I'll ever say, "I know but I can't tell you why." But I know, and I can't tell you why.
They have A TON of money! Just not enough to make Elon blush...
Quote from: solops on November 03, 2022, 08:13:47 PM
Steam has saved me big bucks as I only buy the deeply discounted sales. Why would I sue?
+1 same here. I rarely ever buy a full price, new release game.
If I understand the claim properly, the fact that you've paid less for games on steam is precisely the problem. Steam, according to the theory of the case, forces developers into contracts that requires the developer to permit steam to list the game at a lower price on its platform, while forcing the developer to sell everywhere else at higher prices. This is "anticompetitive" conduct that is purportedly unfair and unlawful in that Steam uses its market dominance to eliminate price competition.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 04, 2022, 06:39:05 AM
If I understand the claim properly, the fact that you've paid less for games on steam is precisely the problem. Steam, according to the theory of the case, forces developers into contracts that requires the developer to permit steam to list the game at a lower price on its platform, while forcing the developer to sell everywhere else at higher prices. This is "anticompetitive" conduct that is purportedly unfair and unlawful in that Steam uses its market dominance to eliminate price competition.
I can see game developers and publishers being interested in this. But not really certain how regular Steam account holders have been harmed.
Now if Steam were to suddenly tell account holders that Steam was going to start charging a subscription to have access to their accounts... "CRY HAVOC AND LET SLIP THE LAWYERS OF WAR!!!!"
Quote from: ArizonaTank on November 04, 2022, 09:28:10 AM
Now if Steam were to suddenly tell account holders that Steam was going to start charging a subscription to have access to their accounts... "CRY HAVOC AND LET SLIP THE LAWYERS OF WAR!!!!"
This is exactly why I don't buy anything that costs more than $15 on Steam. I just expect it to switch to subscription some day.
Quote from: ArizonaTank on November 04, 2022, 09:28:10 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 04, 2022, 06:39:05 AM
If I understand the claim properly, the fact that you've paid less for games on steam is precisely the problem. Steam, according to the theory of the case, forces developers into contracts that requires the developer to permit steam to list the game at a lower price on its platform, while forcing the developer to sell everywhere else at higher prices. This is "anticompetitive" conduct that is purportedly unfair and unlawful in that Steam uses its market dominance to eliminate price competition.
I can see game developers and publishers being interested in this. But not really certain how regular Steam account holders have been harmed.
Now if Steam were to suddenly tell account holders that Steam was going to start charging a subscription to have access to their accounts... "CRY HAVOC AND LET SLIP THE LAWYERS OF WAR!!!!"
I suppose the argument would be that despite offering a lower price for a game on Steam, the purchaser may have been harmed since the prices elsewhere were artificially made higher due to the contracts Steam imposed on developers. Thus, had the market been open and not unfairly influenced by Steam, the customer may have been able to pay even less. This kind of unfair competition could subject Steam to "treble damages", as well. So, if some fact finder was to determine that the actual damage to a plaintiff was $100, and that due to the violation of the law, treble damages were appropriate, the actual award would be $300.
I think establishing liability will be the easy part, while establishing damages may be much more speculative.
Maybe there's a way for Steam to come-out a winner in all this. The newest offering on Steam, "Class-Action Lawyer Simulator". Priced below competition of course. ::)
I've learned that this is actually not a class action lawsuit. Apparently, the law firm pursuing this claim attempted to certify a class, but the license agreement Steam imposes prohibits this and requires arbitration. Steam apparently took steps to enforce the arbitration agreement, which were successful. I learned this after signing up to join the suit (more out of curiosity than expectation of recovery) and was asked to sign a retainer agreement with the law firm, as well as a funding agreement. I found this to be unusual and inquired as to what was different here. The response clued me in.
I'm not sure I'm prepared to execute the required agreements.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 04, 2022, 06:39:05 AM
If I understand the claim properly, the fact that you've paid less for games on steam is precisely the problem. Steam, according to the theory of the case, forces developers into contracts that requires the developer to permit steam to list the game at a lower price on its platform, while forcing the developer to sell everywhere else at higher prices. This is "anticompetitive" conduct that is purportedly unfair and unlawful in that Steam uses its market dominance to eliminate price competition.
Steam is more or less the Standard Oil of gaming.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 07, 2022, 01:47:58 PM
I've learned that this is actually not a class action lawsuit. Apparently, the law firm pursuing this claim attempted to certify a class, but the license agreement Steam imposes prohibits this and requires arbitration. Steam apparently took steps to enforce the arbitration agreement, which were successful. I learned this after signing up to join the suit (more out of curiosity than expectation of recovery) and was asked to sign a retainer agreement with the law firm, as well as a funding agreement. I found this to be unusual and inquired as to what was different here. The response clued me in.
I'm not sure I'm prepared to execute the required agreements.
"It's a trap!"--- Adm. Ackbar
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 03, 2022, 04:46:28 PMLawyers in cases that are handled on contingency generally take a third of whatever they recover. If they recover $1,000,000, they will generally take $333,333,333, as their fee, not including disbursements.
I think it's silly (and disrespectful) to make lawyer jokes in threads like this, but the math cited here either totally missed everybody or was one heck of a Freudian slip!
:Hug:
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on March 02, 2023, 03:04:46 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on November 03, 2022, 04:46:28 PMLawyers in cases that are handled on contingency generally take a third of whatever they recover. If they recover $1,000,000, they will generally take $333,333,333, as their fee, not including disbursements.
I think it's silly (and disrespectful) to make lawyer jokes in threads like this, but the math cited here either totally missed everybody or was one heck of a Freudian slip!
:Hug:
Wow. Yeah. What's a few extra threes? :ROFL:
I don't know if this is the same suit or not...seems like a different group of lawyers.
This particular notice has filled up my FB feed in the past week.
https://get.steamrefund.com/?agency=agencybell&utm_source=facebook&campaignid=23852747751370234&campaignname=%282023-02-12%29+ST+MAS%3A+Steam+Refund+-+Stage+1+Test+%28LALs%29&adgroupid=23852747823450234&adgroupname=AS+49+abc+-+LAL+1-5%25+Signed+%7C+18%2B+M%2FF+%7C+Signed+Retainer&creativeid=23852747823670234&creativename=0021+c&placement=Facebook_Desktop_Feed&network=fb&fbclid=IwAR0Pau1QVvEoW2CzhVKT_bOcMgV0mpQw9n8QhkAQ46Ig6jmPYSl-wOtkCZA (https://get.steamrefund.com/?agency=agencybell&utm_source=facebook&campaignid=23852747751370234&campaignname=%282023-02-12%29+ST+MAS%3A+Steam+Refund+-+Stage+1+Test+%28LALs%29&adgroupid=23852747823450234&adgroupname=AS+49+abc+-+LAL+1-5%25+Signed+%7C+18%2B+M%2FF+%7C+Signed+Retainer&creativeid=23852747823670234&creativename=0021+c&placement=Facebook_Desktop_Feed&network=fb&fbclid=IwAR0Pau1QVvEoW2CzhVKT_bOcMgV0mpQw9n8QhkAQ46Ig6jmPYSl-wOtkCZA)
Anyway, I am not really comfortable giving them the amount of information they are asking for.
^I got something very similar since I initially signed up, but I also not comfortable sharing this info. So I am not.
AT....this has popped up on my Facebook feed as well. Not sure if it's the same suit as previously posted on this thread. I didn't click on the link for more info.