Hi guys,
I'm new around here and I've seen various threads on the different games I've been toying around with lately, but I wanted to list them here and see if y'all had any recommendations on something good to focus on. As I've gotten older, I've found myself to be almost more of a collector of games than an actual gamer... I still keep up on things and usually can't resist jumping on a good sale when something I've been following goes up... I just don't have as much free time any more so I usually have to focus on one or two things. Anyways, here's some of the stuff I have:
Combat Mission Series: CMx1 was my introduction to PC wargaming and still stands as the pinnacle of wargaming for me.. to this day it has best captured that balance of strategy/tactics/realism/immersion/fun for me that I'm looking for in any game. I had huge hopes for the CMx2 series and I own most of them and occasionally still play them but they just don't quite have "it" for me. I still think they are great games and will always support Battlefront though.
Steel Panthers (World at War and Shrapnel's WW2/MBT): WaW was my other introduction to wargaming, and it has all the same magic as CMx1 for me. I started with the free edition then bought the Generals Edition for the Mega-Campaigns (which I have still yet to tackle). I eventually found WW2 and MBT and I particularly enjoy MBT for the variety of settings (especially the Vietnam maps) but games can just take soooo long.
Advanced Tactics Gold/Decisive Campaigns (Warsaw to Paris and Ardennes Offensive)/Shadow Empire: I'm listing all three of these together because they seem to be built on a similar engine/concept and I've just recently developed an interest in this kind of game. I figured ATG would be the simplest of the three (and I'm still guessing it is), just haven't had the time to delve into any of them. Even though I guess these games aren't considered operational-level, I've just started becoming more interested in operational-level games and these feel more on that level than most of the games I own...
Close Combat: The Bloody First (and the original CC games): I had a hard time getting into the CC series because I started on Combat Mission and something just felt missing here. The AI pathfinding is super annoying (especially for armor), and I guess starting in the 3d world of CMBO just kind of ruined some of the magic I would've felt for this series if I'd played it first. I really like the Normandy mod for TBF though and I still hold onto hopes for this game...
Graviteam Tactics: This is probably the strangest relationship I've had with a game. For the longest time I'd start up a game, feel like I had no clue what I was doing then quit, only to somehow get drawn back to it. I started watching YouTube videos (something I normally don't have the patience for, I'd rather read a manual), and started piercing through the issues with the UI and trying to learn my way around. This has been probably the most rewarding wargaming experience for me as I've started slowly "getting it". It has been well-worth the effort, and what I'm playing most these days.
Other honorable mentions in my catalog that I haven't had time to play: Armored Brigade, Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm, Fields of Glory II (and Medieval), Grand Tactician: The Civil War, Second Front, Unity of Command II, Campaign Series (JTCS, Middle East, and most recently Vietnam)
Of those games outside the legacy of Steel Panthers, Combat Mission is the one that I spend the most time with and feel is the best to put some hours in.
If you feel an itch for something new that I don't see listed here, a couple of games I absolutely LOVE that are better for my older, shorter attention span are the Decisive Campaigns series and Armored Brigade. I find those, especially AB, to be very satisfying and easy to pick up and put down.
However, the true Grog answer is to be a game whore and own them all!
I've fortunately/unfortunately been taking the "whore" route and now have more stuff than I have time for! But I've been thinking the Decisive Campaigns series might suit me right...
I'll put in a recommendation for the Decisive Campaigns series. They're great if you like Strategic/Operational Level games.
Thank you, sir!! I've kinda felt a pull towards that series and Ardennes Offensive is really interesting to me. (Bastogne/The Breaking Point were my favorite Band of Brothers episodes!)
Quote from: SirAndrewD on March 08, 2023, 09:55:22 PMOf those games outside the legacy of Steel Panthers, Combat Mission is the one that I spend the most time with and feel is the best to put some hours in.
Do you play the original CM games or CMx2? and is there any particular game/front in that series you focus on? Also I'm curious if you play Cmx2 games if you play them real-time or turn-based...? My instinct with the CMx2 games has been to play them turn-based because I thought that system was so cool in the first generation of games but I'm starting to think (based on my limited experience) that real-time may be the way to go on smaller battles (which is the way I like to play).
Quote from: Sir Slash on March 08, 2023, 11:02:30 PMI'll put in a recommendation for the Decisive Campaigns series. They're great if you like Strategic/Operational Level games.
I'll second that and recommend Barbarossa due to the RPG aspect not found in any other VR games.
Have you ever looked into the John Tiller games, now marketed under the WDS brand? Lots of different series to consider at all levels from the tactical to the operational. These games have all aged well and have updated with graphics and UI enhancements. New titles are still being released too. Lots to choose from.
Also, if you're looking for a full time job, there is of course the Gary Grigsby titles...War in the East, War in the west, War in the Pacific...nothing else compares to these games in terms of detail, but the complexity will either appeal to you and suck you in or scare you away altogether. Either way, I feel that no grog collection is complete without them.
Finally, for some more casual play, you might want to check out the Strategic Command and War Plan series. Strategic and operational games that are still fairly easy to get into.
The Decisive Campaign games are absolutely operational level! I own but haven't played the latest entry (on the Bulge), ditto Case Blue, but I've finished multiplayer games in the other two. The UI is kind of finicky, and most-so on the first entry (the Blitz).
Vance Strickland, the Groghead member named Barthheart, wrote the tutorial for the Blitz game; and he's who I played the two mp games against.
I set up AARs for both games, providing a sort of tutorial system of my own in the process (and learning the hard way not to stack too many units in a hex even if I can!)
After fixing the video code for the thread (I should do that on more of my threads, since the forum migration to a new engine)...
Here is my side of the DC1 match (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=19129.0)
And Barth's side (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=19134.0)
My side of the DC3 match (screenies only, no videos) (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=15498.0)
Barth's side of the DC3 match (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=15513.0)
The combined aftermatch commentary thread for DC3 (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=17083.0)
Thank you guys for all your input! Jarhead I have a few of the John Tiller/WDS games and I really like them. I think I like Squad Battles the best just for the scale (I can't control massive rosters of units) but I bought Battles of Kursk and Normandy awhile back and I really like those also. I have a few of the Civil War and WW2 JTS games on my iPad also (they work pretty well with touch controls once you get used to them).
Strategic Command has been on my radar for awhile, and I bought SC: War in Europe awhile back when it was on sale but have maybe played it 10 minutes. Might need to invest a little more time into that one. I've read a little bit about the War Plan series but have never owned or played any of them. I've only recently become more interested in operational-level games, and I bought Gary Grigsby's War in the West in one of the past Steam sales but I haven't had near the confidence to attempt to tackle it. For some reason operational-level stuff is intimidating to me, but hopefully just because I don't have enough experience with it.
And thank you for your AAR links, JasonPratt! Looking forward to digging into those a little!
FWIW I'll make a few observations...
IMHO CMx2 is CMx1 just slightly prettified - absolutely worth your time/money if you like the originals. Also, carry on playing them WEGO as God (and Battlefront) intended.
I would separate out Shadow Empire from its stable-mates as it really is a whole new deep-dive venture.
From your also-rans, Flashpoint Campaigns and Fields of Glory are definitely worth your attention (again IMHO).
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet - and it is one of the "Big Beasts" of computer wargaming - is Command Operations 2. There is a free demo which is well worth a look.
Thanks for the input, Father Ted! It's definitely possible I just haven't put enough time into CMx2 games to appreciate them as much I should. I guess I was just hoping for more ...breadth? (maybe the word) from them. Stuff like RobO's Quick Campaign kinda native with the game. I already think the engine and graphics were way above most of the wargames I've played. But anyway, not to disparage them because I think they are great games (and probably more deserving of my gaming time).
Flashpoint Campaigns is one that I really feel I've been missing the boat on. I've played through the tutorial guide maybe once or twice but haven't really advanced beyond that. I've really enjoyed the Fields of Glory games also but haven't advanced very far beyond tutorial-level and a few battles (pretty common theme here).
Command Operations 2 is one that hasn't been on my radar and sounds intriguing for sure. I will definitely look into it!!
I like CM 2 better than my beloved CM 1. But I totally suck at the game. :embarrassed: But I keep playing it anyway. Even though it makes me feel like these guys... :stormtrooper2:
Command Ops 2 (and the many iterations before it, all published by Matrix/Slitherine until COps2) is arguably the most complex real-time strategy game ever, certainly in the top 3 (if various Paradox Clausewitz engine titles are grouped as one entry). Although there are things like Dyson Sphere now which may be more complicated.
And yet, it's only as complex as you wanna be: for any mission, you could literally find your on-map boss (essentially the HQ unit which is your representation on the field), drag him over to where the mission goal is, and then unpause the game, and watch the AI fight itself.
It does have shortcomings which become more obvious once you mess with the game, but it's still an amazing game system.
I too like the Decisive Campaign series - fairly easy to pick up & if you follow military logic you'll most likely get good results.
However, I have found myself drifting more into board games - I'm fortunate in that I have a room set aside so can set out a game & go back to it as & when I have time or suddenly think of a good move or strategy - its also great for looking at the board state & then ruminating on the next move. its far more relaxed & allows more consideration than PC games.
Don't get me wrong, I still like PC games, but I'm really glad I've discovered this whole new strand, though I do shy away from more complex "fiddly" chrome heavy wargames & tend to go for series games like COIN or Levy & Campaign, where I can learn one (generally simpler) rule set & play a lot of games on the back of that.
One of the interesting things about the Command Ops 2 game is that the demo is free, but you can use that to play the ton of user-made scenarios that have been created. Pretty much as risk-free as you can get!
Quote from: Phantom on March 10, 2023, 03:03:23 PMI too like the Decisive Campaign series - fairly easy to pick up & if you follow military logic you'll most likely get good results.
However, I have found myself drifting more into board games - I'm fortunate in that I have a room set aside so can set out a game & go back to it as & when I have time or suddenly think of a good move or strategy - its also great for looking at the board state & then ruminating on the next move. its far more relaxed & allows more consideration than PC games.
Don't get me wrong, I still like PC games, but I'm really glad I've discovered this whole new strand, though I do shy away from more complex "fiddly" chrome heavy wargames & tend to go for series games like COIN or Levy & Campaign, where I can learn one (generally simpler) rule set & play a lot of games on the back of that.
I've been drifting towards the board games as well lately. Have a good chunk of the COIN games with one ongoing game of Fire in the Lake on Vassal that I follow on the map on my den table and another game on my dining room table as well. Nice being single. LOL
I'm not really into board games as much as I used to be, but Fire in the Lake is an experience like no other. It's dragging me kicking and screaming back into board wargaming all by itself.
And the new additions to the beginning of the war (the Diem years) and the end of the war (1975)
are fantastic. Someday they will convert Fire in the Lake into a pc game but I'll be dead and gone by the time that happy event occurs.
Welcome aboard. There all solid games, I should know, I own them all and then some :idiot2: . More games than time is our motto around here :ThumbsUp:. Good advice given out here, but I'll go with a game that hasn't been mentioned yet. Campaign Series Vietnam, it adds some new things to the turn based games we know and love. Namely mission assignments and the event engine, also the scripted AI can surprise you along the way. Any of the games mentioned are certainly worth your time. Have fun.
Thank you guys for all the info!! Based on all your great input, I think I'm gonna download the Command Ops 2 demo and play around with that, and focus mostly on Decisive Campaigns for now. Now I just have to decide if I want to start with Blitzkrieg or Ardennes Offensive. :undecided:
Quote from: DesertFox on March 12, 2023, 12:46:14 PMThank you guys for all the info!! Based on all your great input, I think I'm gonna download the Command Ops 2 demo and play around with that, and focus mostly on Decisive Campaigns for now. Now I just have to decide if I want to start with Blitzkrieg or Ardennes Offensive. :undecided:
Totally different games, scale and feature wise. There both excellent. I haven't put as much time into Ardennes yet. I just love the DC treatment of Case White. I played it many times from the German perspective.
From what I understand, Ardennes is the smaller scale of the two correct? I think I might start with that one because tackling a new gaming system is tough enough without dealing with huge rosters of units...
Ardennes is way more complicated ruleswise as it is at a much smaller scale with far more variety of units. The first game is much easier to get into, brain wise.
Yup, agree with Bobarossa, Ardennes is the more complicated game. Ardennes does have more smaller scenarios to choice from. As I recall DCWTP only has a couple tutorial like scenarios.
Cool, thanks guys! Looks like it's Warsaw to Paris!! I want to start simpler if possible... I know these types of games have learning curves and often involve watching videos, etc and I think you guys have pointed me in a good direction!!
The good news is that if you start with Blitz, you'll get to learn the LEAST polished version of the engine, and so you'll have an easier time later with increasingly polished versions.
The bad news, of course, is that you'll be learning the etc. ;)
Also in Blitz, there are three completely different maps and TOAs, which chain into a campaign as you go along, with your German units being brought along if they survive (along with new ones), and even some Polish units possibly surviving (by escaping) to come back later.
Quote from: gregb41352 on March 11, 2023, 01:42:18 PMI'm not really into board games as much as I used to be, but Fire in the Lake is an experience like no other. It's dragging me kicking and screaming back into board wargaming all by itself.
And the new additions to the beginning of the war (the Diem years) and the end of the war (1975)
are fantastic. Someday they will convert Fire in the Lake into a pc game but I'll be dead and gone by the time that happy event occurs.
You can indeed play Fire in the Lake on PC. There is both a Vassal module and a Table Top Simulator workshop item that both accurately represent the real life board game.
But if you are talking about a stand-alone PC game then yes, that does not exist.
I'm playing a Vassal game of Fire in the Lake right now and it is great fun. I think this is a very good game. Had played with the bots before, both the one that comes with the game and with the card system and now that I know the game better I think they would be great solo. Love the COIN Series and hope to have a Vassal game going all the time.
Quote from: DesertFox on March 09, 2023, 09:29:13 AMThank you guys for all your input! Jarhead I have a few of the John Tiller/WDS games and I really like them. I think I like Squad Battles the best just for the scale (I can't control massive rosters of units) but I bought Battles of Kursk and Normandy awhile back and I really like those also. I have a few of the Civil War and WW2 JTS games on my iPad also (they work pretty well with touch controls once you get used to them).
Just to whet your appetite, we are getting close to releasing the 4.01 updates for the reimagined Squad Battles. There is a lot of new code as well as graphics coming. We are hopeful that the three Eastern Front titles (Advance of The Reich, Winter War & Red Victory) as well as the Grenada demo will be in your hands soon. Our play testers are really enjoying the changes in game play and we will share more at release.
Here are some shots from in-game. I have included one 3D shot, but expect that the 3D graphics will be completely overhauled in a future patch. All shots are 1920 x 1080 and you can see how the additional zoom level makes a difference. We are experimenting with another zoom level in 3D and are hopeful we maybe able to include 3D graphics for all the Squad Battles titles, not just the current four.
(Right Click for full size)
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Nice screenies.
I've always been a fan of unit icons. Nato symbols simply do not re-capture my childhood joy of playing with toy soldiers and vehicles.
Whilst I do understand the preference of Nato symbols of map cartographers and military enthusiasts, icons is what brings me a smile to my face as I push my digital soldiers to victory. I never really did grow up. :grin:
I've always loved how this system (in most if not all its iterations) allows for all kinds of representation on the board, from figurines up through different kinds of counters.