Has potential to be awesome. I've always scratched my head at why they never did a Japan themed title sooner. Seems like such a no brainer. I will, of course, have to overlook the historical inauthenticity of having a female ninja and black samurai as the two main protagonists, which if the game is good, will be fairly easy to do.
^Thought of you immediately when I watched the trailer. Fingers crossed.
Assassin's Creed: Mirage is next up in my queue in a few weeks...after Ghost of Tsushima, of course.
Considering the concept of the game (although they may have 'finished' that plot several entries ago), the 'black' samurai might be perfectly fine because a descendent is 'playing' his ancestor's memories. Ditto the female ninja although really that's quite standard in the genre for longer than I've been alive! -- and the AssCreed stories have never been about historical accuracy in that sense anyway. (e.g. their version of George Washington)
Mainly, from the second game onward, their accuracy has aimed at good representations of the physical play areas along with some event-accuracy-flavor (so to speak). Relatedly, I wouldn't mind tourism versions of Odyssey and some earlier games, the way they did Origins.
I did think they had done Japan already in one of the console trilogy (for PSP?), but I guess that was China.
^Yeah that was China. Russia and India too.
Origins is such a great game in every way. I think I put 125+ hours into it before finishing it unexpectedly, which made me sad.
For f*ck's sake...can't they just focus on making a good game?
https://tech4gamers.com/assassins-creed-shadows-lgbtq-relationships/ (https://tech4gamers.com/assassins-creed-shadows-lgbtq-relationships/)
Sounds like the game is getting skewered. Backlash in Japan is very strong. A politician is launching a government investigation into "cultural theft".
https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/07/11/backlash-from-japanese-players-prompts-national-politician-to-investigate-cultural-theft-of-assassins-creed-shadows/ (https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/07/11/backlash-from-japanese-players-prompts-national-politician-to-investigate-cultural-theft-of-assassins-creed-shadows/)
Ubisoft relied mainly on the book Yasuke: The true story of the legendary African Samurai by Thomas Lockley as their historical source. Lockley's work has been called into question and it appears that there might be some less-than-ethical behaivour with editing of wikipedia entries and citing sources that can't be found.
https://japanese-with-naoto.com/2024/05/29/disappointment-in-thomas-lockley/ (https://japanese-with-naoto.com/2024/05/29/disappointment-in-thomas-lockley/)
Primary documents regarding Yasuke are few and far between and contain only the barest information.
https://japanese-with-naoto.com/2024/05/22/fact-checking-yasuke-the-black-samurai-in-assassins-creed/ (https://japanese-with-naoto.com/2024/05/22/fact-checking-yasuke-the-black-samurai-in-assassins-creed/)
At the Japan Expo, the Ubisoft booth was constantly being ignored or, worse from UBI's perspective, people were using UBI's benches to sit and watch screens from other booth presenters.
https://x.com/rc_166/status/1811751058080952755 (https://x.com/rc_166/status/1811751058080952755)
https://x.com/Grummz/status/1812506383574872080 (https://x.com/Grummz/status/1812506383574872080)
And, in their promotional pictures, UBI included a plethora of historical Japanese references but many were from eras as much as 300 years apart from the time they're claiming to represent.
I'll be in the corner continuing Ghosts of Tsushima if anyone needs me.
Stay classy, Ubi.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 19, 2024, 06:27:09 AMFor f*ck's sake...can't they just focus on making a good game?
https://tech4gamers.com/assassins-creed-shadows-lgbtq-relationships/ (https://tech4gamers.com/assassins-creed-shadows-lgbtq-relationships/)
I'm so done with this wicked world.
Bashlash in Japan is picking up steam. It's being discussed on morning news shows
Even celebs are opining on the subject via Twitter/X now.
More on the above. Crazy if true, but hardly surprising.
https://tech4gamers.com/assassins-creed-shadows-yasuke-story-fabricated/ (https://tech4gamers.com/assassins-creed-shadows-yasuke-story-fabricated/)
:ROFL:
Seems Like We Found AC Shadows 2 Protagonist Already!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1011350080991672&set=a.499314072195278&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1011350080991672&set=a.499314072195278&type=3)
:lipsrsealed:
You guys aren't seriously complaining about LGBTQ representation in games now? :idiot2: I thought this community was better than that.
For one thing, I'm hazarding a bet that they don't force you to be gay. It's just an option for those who want it. Second, if sources are so bare and we know so little about Yasuke, how are we so damn sure he wasn't gay or bisexual? And more importantly, this is a video game, which is art - not a historical record. It's not like the series is known for its historical authenticity when time travel and sci fi mind control are in the mix. So who gives a shit if the devs decided to make Yasuke gay? You can feel free to not support the game if the idea of gay people being in your play time causes you such anguish that it makes you want to be "done with this wicked world."
Also, unironically linking posts from Grummz/Mark Kern complaining about "wokeness" and "historical accuracy" is bottom tier sourcing. He's a known liar who slings dubious bullshit around to kick up outrage and grift off the attention. It's all about money for him.
And don't try and shut me down for talking "politics" and brush this off. The existence of queer people isn't political. It's only "controversial" when assholes make a big deal about it because they don't want to see queer people in their media.
Quote from: al_infierno on July 25, 2024, 10:11:30 PMYou guys aren't seriously complaining about LGBTQ representation in games now? :idiot2: I thought this community was better than that.
For one thing, I'm hazarding a bet that they don't force you to be gay. It's just an option for those who want it. Second, if sources are so bare and we know so little about Yasuke, how are we so damn sure he wasn't gay or bisexual? And more importantly, this is a video game, which is art - not a historical record. It's not like the series is known for its historical authenticity when time travel and sci fi mind control are in the mix. So who gives a shit if the devs decided to make Yasuke gay? You can feel free to not support the game if the idea of gay people being in your play time causes you such anguish that it makes you want to be "done with this wicked world."
Also, unironically linking posts from Grummz/Mark Kern complaining about "wokeness" and "historical accuracy" is bottom tier sourcing. He's a known liar who slings dubious bullshit around to kick up outrage and grift off the attention. It's all about money for him.
And don't try and shut me down for talking "politics" and brush this off. The existence of queer people isn't political. It's only "controversial" when assholes make a big deal about it because they don't want to see queer people in their media.
You are entirely missing the point. They are injecting these kinds of things into the game at the expense of the game itself. They've assaulted history, authenticity and disrespected Japanese culture, for what end? I guess it is ok to appropriate and insult Asians, so long as you're representing blacks and gays? Ubisoft's "liberty" with the historical record is so egregious that the Japanese government has become involved.
I'm ok with giving players options. I'm ok if some of the options include those tilting to the queer, but not when the trending of the present day is used in a way that distorts the truth. I mean consider this, Assassins Creed was basically made for feudal Japan. For decades I've been waiting for them to make this game. They could have knocked it out of the park by simply paying homage to Japanese culture and history and instead, they've created this controversy through their emphasis on questionable history and the LGBTQ+. Sex (gay or hetero), gender and race have no place in Assassins Creed. Such issues have never been a part of the series, ever.
...and, are you calling me an asshole because my opinion differs from yours?
How is the inclusion of a gay man in Feudal Japan "distorting the truth"? Are you under the impression that queer people didn't exist in Feudal Japan? You've been waiting decades for a Feudal Japan game, and it pisses you off so much that they added a gay romance as opposed to all the time travel nonsense the series has been doing since the first game, as if that's "historically accurate"? Who's even to say whether Yasuke was gay or straight or bisexual or asexual or even fucking transgender, there's barely any historical documentation about him.
There's no controversy being created here except by the fucking morons who write articles like the one you linked simply stating that the inclusion of a queer romance is somehow controversial. The only thing "controversial" I see here is the fact that W8aminute can openly call queer people "wicked" without so much a warning.
What evidence do you have that the option for queer romance comes at the expense of the game itself? What does that even mean, at the expense of the game itself? Is the gameplay going to somehow suffer because you can kiss a guy if you want? Let me ask you: Who exactly is putting the undue emphasis on gay relationships? The developers, who are creating a product neither you nor I nor the authors of the article have played? Or the authors of the article and you?
If you think the existence of queer people and their inclusion in media is somehow "controversial" and not an issue of bald faced homophobia, then yes, I do think you're an asshole.
Quote from: al_infierno on July 26, 2024, 06:43:52 AMHow is the inclusion of a gay man in Feudal Japan "distorting the truth"? Are you under the impression that queer people didn't exist in Feudal Japan? You've been waiting decades for a Feudal Japan game, and it pisses you off so much that they added a gay romance as opposed to all the time travel nonsense the series has been doing since the first game, as if that's "historically accurate"? Who's even to say whether Yasuke was gay or straight or bisexual or asexual or even fucking transgender, there's barely any historical documentation about him.
There's no controversy being created here except by the fucking morons who write articles like the one you linked simply stating that the inclusion of a queer romance is somehow controversial. The only thing "controversial" I see here is the fact that W8aminute can openly call queer people "wicked" without so much a warning.
What evidence do you have that the option for queer romance comes at the expense of the game itself? What does that even mean, at the expense of the game itself? Is the gameplay going to somehow suffer because you can kiss a guy if you want? Let me ask you: Who exactly is putting the undue emphasis on gay relationships? The developers, who are creating a product neither you nor I nor the authors of the article have played? Or the authors of the article and you?
If you think the existence of queer people and their inclusion in media is somehow "controversial" and not an issue of bald faced homophobia, then yes, I do think you're an asshole.
You need to fucking cool your jets. I know gay and trans issues are a total trigger for you and it causes you to become hateful and full of vitriol. But you should know that it's very cheap and unbecoming to try to discredit someone by accusing them of being "racist", "sexist", "homophobic" or whatever pejorative you want to use.
Until you're able to communicate on these issues like a human being, I'm just going to ignore you on these topics. Because, quite frankly, I don't care nearly as much as you do and it's not worth it to me.
Where did W8 call anyone wicked?
My take here is that these hot-button topics are being force-injected into a game that can do very well on its own without the force-injection...something like Assassin's Creed: Shadows can stand on its own without trying to be edgy just for the sake of being edgy.
I don't put words in other peoples' mouths - that is where I think JH is coming from.
Don't understand where the anger is coming from here, Al.
Quote from: Gusington on July 26, 2024, 09:27:50 AMWhere did W8 call anyone wicked?
My take here is that these hot-button topics are being force-injected into a game that can do very well on its own without the force-injection...something like Assassin's Creed: Shadows can stand on its own without trying to be edgy just for the sake of being edgy.
I don't put words in other peoples' mouths - that is where I think JH is coming from.
Don't understand where the anger is coming from here, Al.
You're telling me a Jesus freak saying "wicked world" in response to an article about queer relationships has nothing whatsoever to do with queer people? I called him out on it via DM and he literally quoted Genesis about how men are supposed to be with women, and being gay is a distraction from Lucifer. So forgive me if I don't buy this golly-gee "well he didn't specifically say he hates gay people" bullshit.
Once again, the only people I see forcing anything or being edgy are the people who write worthless articles bitching about the inclusion of queerness. What's "edgy" or "force-injected" about a character being gay? My point is that nobody knows what Yasuke's sexual preferences were, so there's nothing being "distorted" by choosing to make him gay or bisexual. It's just artistic liberty. Why jump to assume the overall product would be worse simply by its inclusion? It's clearly not romance that's the problem, but specifically gay romance.
^Al you really know nothing about me or who I am or who I know or my family or anything really, so you should probably get off your high horse and come back down to earth.
And calling W8 a Jesus freak isn't exactly liberal or all-welcoming either.
W8 called the world wicked, not gays. Read into what you like. And if you called him out on it in a DM, how am I supposed to know that?
You need to chill.
Quote from: Gusington on July 26, 2024, 11:02:12 AM^Al you really know nothing about me or who I am or who I know or my family or anything really, so you should probably get off your high horse and come back down to earth.
What prompted this reply...? I didn't say anything about you or your family.
QuoteW8 called the world wicked, not gays. Read into what you like. And if you called him out on it in a DM, how am I supposed to know that?
It's not some wild reading or leap in logic to make the obvious connection that he's calling the world wicked
because of queerness. And you weren't supposed to know that; That's why I said it.
The issue here is the game can be produced from beginning to end without the mention of any type of sexuality at all.
Beyond that, I posted the above because you are inferring that all of us here, including me, are anti-gay somehow. Which could not be farther from the truth.
All while calling W8 a Jesus freak. And JH an asshole.
Again, I repeat...you need to chill.
Quote from: Gusington on July 26, 2024, 12:33:55 PMThe issue here is the game can be produced from beginning to end without the mention of any type of sexuality at all.
Why is it an issue to mention that the game will have LGBTQ representation? I don't understand this argument at all. I am really not trying to suggest anyone here aside from W8 is homophobic (I really don't see how you can interpret his comment or his follow-up Genesis quote about Lucifer as anything else), but all I'm getting from the arguments here is that it's for some reason terrible to merely mention that the game will include a queer romance. How is that any different than mentioning that the game has a straight romance, or any romantic options at all? Where do you draw the line between "needless injection" and merely another component in a very complex product meant to appeal to a wide variety of people?
I apologize for calling JH an asshole, that was over the line.
^I would be fine without any romance at all. This a series about assassins...how does romance fit in? I don't think the romantic facets here should be included in a historically based game - it doesn't need any romantic component at all. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I felt the same about Baldur's Gate 3, The Witcher, etc.
In fantasy I guess I am a little more accepting of romance being included. How fantastical is this Assassin's Creed game? It's complicated.
That's where I'm coming from.
Quote from: al_infierno on July 26, 2024, 12:48:01 PMI apologize for calling JH an asshole, that was over the line.
While the accusation is not always untrue ( :embarrassed: ), in this context it was. Regardless, I accept your apology.
I'm still not going to touch this topic again because it is way too emotional for you and of little to no importance to me. So its not worth ruffling the feathers.
Quote from: Gusington on July 26, 2024, 11:02:12 AMAnd calling W8 a Jesus freak isn't exactly liberal or all-welcoming either.
No he's right. I don't mind being called that haha!
I stand with Israel.
Putting aside the prior hotly debated controversies, tomorrow is release day. I've watched some initial impression and early reviews and the game seems to have some highs and lows (I guess like all other games). It does look pretty cool to me in the game play videos so I'm tempted to get it. My biggest concern is whether any Japanese/Samurai themed game can ever measure up to Ghost of Tsushima. It set the bar so extraordinarily high, being one of the greatest games ever made in my view. I'm afraid it is the bar upon which all Samurai themed games will forever be measured.
Also, I'm so engrossed in KCD2, that I don't really need any significant distractions.
Anyone going to pick this up?
Around 20 reviews :
https://www.bluesnews.com/s/282228/assassin_s-creed-shadows-reviews
Not for me. Right now, I don't need another game that will take me 100 hours to finish.
Gonna pass. I don't want to reward the company's line of thinking.
Despite the questionably very positive reviews on Steam and some overly negative reviews elsewhere, I decided to give it a shot. I've always been a fan of the series and bringing it to Japan has been a long time no-brainer of a dream for me since the very beginning. I watched a bunch of game play videos and I thought it looked very good. So, what the heck.
The biggest problem with the game so far is that it starts off VERY slow. Like glacier slow. There are a $hit-ton of cut scenes and many of them are painfully slow, as well. It's a very questionable design decision in a game like this to ask someone to sit through a very slow cut scene only to throw them into a mundane task like going to paint with a kid, only to then throw the player right back into another dull cut scene. The maps are also very linear so far. Seems that you only move between locations along a relatively narrow path before running into a virtual wall. I'm very hopeful that this is only because I'm still early on in the story and that the maps will open up. I see potential in both characters as far as combat is concerned. Combat is very simple early on, but I trust the progression system will mix this up eventually. Furthermore, there seem to be some really enjoyable stealth options and mechanics which I hope will bring the game back to its series roots. Despite my early thoughts on including a controversial historically questionable and non-traditional character such as Yasuke, I rather like his story so far. A strange foreigner whose curiosity so intrigued Oda Nobunaga that the warlord took him away from his Portuguese slave owners in order to bring him into his own service. Furthermore, there is something cool about being a giant black dude surrounded by hundreds of tiny Japanese and using brute force to knock them all around.
In any event, I do hope it picks up, because there could be a better than average AC game in here somewhere. I can already tell it is no Ghost of Tsushima or even KCD2. Both of those games are far superior, but if you like AC games, this is probably still worth a look.
I was always kinda interested in Assassins Creed but never got around to playing them other than a demo way back in the day. I am not the sneaky spie type that acts outside of a group like a secret agent. But I am interested in a lot of the settings the games portray. Fuedal Japan sounds amazing.
However like Jarhead if I play a game like this is will be KCD2, primarily because it sticks much more rigidly to history and life as we knew it was back in its setting.
I love KCD2 and all, but let's not pretend that's "rigidly" historically accurate. You can brew healing potions and night vision potions. Also, it lets gamers live out the fantasy of being able to talk to a woman :buck2:
Quote from: al_infierno on March 21, 2025, 11:45:23 PMI love KCD2 and all, but let's not pretend that's "rigidly" historically accurate. You can brew healing potions and night vision potions. Also, it lets gamers live out the fantasy of being able to talk to a woman :buck2:
Potions are a necessary game mechanic. I am talking about as far as they can be historical they generally do not depart from doing so. As for talking to an in game woman, I'd rather get on with the meat of the story. To me those parts are superfluous.
Quote from: Destraex on March 22, 2025, 04:12:38 AMQuote from: al_infierno on March 21, 2025, 11:45:23 PMI love KCD2 and all, but let's not pretend that's "rigidly" historically accurate. You can brew healing potions and night vision potions. Also, it lets gamers live out the fantasy of being able to talk to a woman :buck2:
As for talking to an in game woman, I'd rather get on with the meat of the story. To me those parts are superfluous.
Well, you would most likely hate AC Shadows...at least the first few hours. It forces you to interact with a lot of superfluous people and engage in a lot of pointless tasks. They introduce some of the game mechanics and try to develop the characters this way, but they do it in a very inefficient and mundane way.
Quote from: Destraex on March 22, 2025, 04:12:38 AMPotions are a necessary game mechanic. I am talking about as far as they can be historical they generally do not depart from doing so.
Not really. There's plenty of realistic and historically accurate ways to get around the use of blatantly unrealistic magic potions. Like the bandage and rest system the game already has.
By all means, draw a line in the sand wherever you like, but let's not pretend "rigid historical accuracy" has anything to do with it :tongue:
Quote from: al_infierno on March 22, 2025, 12:47:42 PMQuote from: Destraex on March 22, 2025, 04:12:38 AMPotions are a necessary game mechanic. I am talking about as far as they can be historical they generally do not depart from doing so.
Not really. There's plenty of realistic and historically accurate ways to get around the use of blatantly unrealistic magic potions. Like the bandage and rest system the game already has.
By all means, draw a line in the sand wherever you like, but let's not pretend "rigid historical accuracy" has anything to do with it :tongue:
Originally I said "more rigid" by which I meant in relative comparison to Assassins Creed.
As for potions. I think if we look into it, we will find that locals and perhaps herbalists of medieval and dark age history did use them. Whether they worked or not would not have been scientific as it is today, but that's the point. It's historic medicine. I would bet the devs did look into that and even have the history of each herb written up in game.
No matter what you use... mechanics like saved games did not have a facsimile in medieval history/reality. Some things need to be linked to the current world or the game would take your entire life to play. I think that the kcd devs did a good job "where they could" of making the experience as real as they could.
Did you ever read a Bernard Cornwell dark age or medieval novel? He does a good job of looking at things from the perspective of a person from that age. Susperstition, potions and all. They believed things that we do not and could have even enjoyed placebo effects.
Quote from: Destraex on March 22, 2025, 11:05:47 PMQuote from: al_infierno on March 22, 2025, 12:47:42 PMQuote from: Destraex on March 22, 2025, 04:12:38 AMPotions are a necessary game mechanic. I am talking about as far as they can be historical they generally do not depart from doing so.
Not really. There's plenty of realistic and historically accurate ways to get around the use of blatantly unrealistic magic potions. Like the bandage and rest system the game already has.
By all means, draw a line in the sand wherever you like, but let's not pretend "rigid historical accuracy" has anything to do with it :tongue:
Originally I said "more rigid" by which I meant in relative comparison to Assassins Creed.
As for potions. I think if we look into it, we will find that locals and perhaps herbalists of medieval and dark age history did use them. Whether they worked or not would not have been scientific as it is today, but that's the point. It's historic medicine. I would bet the devs did look into that and even have the history of each herb written up in game.
No matter what you use... mechanics like saved games did not have a facsimile in medieval history/reality. Some things need to be linked to the current world or the game would take your entire life to play. I think that the kcd devs did a good job "where they could" of making the experience as real as they could.
Did you ever read a Bernard Cornwell dark age or medieval novel? He does a good job of looking at things from the perspective of a person from that age. Susperstition, potions and all. They believed things that we do not and could have even enjoyed placebo effects.
So, what part of Assassin's Creed Shadows crosses this line, which superstitious beliefs being true does not cross?
Quote from: al_infierno on March 22, 2025, 11:24:44 PMQuote from: Destraex on March 22, 2025, 11:05:47 PMQuote from: al_infierno on March 22, 2025, 12:47:42 PMQuote from: Destraex on March 22, 2025, 04:12:38 AMPotions are a necessary game mechanic. I am talking about as far as they can be historical they generally do not depart from doing so.
Not really. There's plenty of realistic and historically accurate ways to get around the use of blatantly unrealistic magic potions. Like the bandage and rest system the game already has.
By all means, draw a line in the sand wherever you like, but let's not pretend "rigid historical accuracy" has anything to do with it :tongue:
Originally I said "more rigid" by which I meant in relative comparison to Assassins Creed.
As for potions. I think if we look into it, we will find that locals and perhaps herbalists of medieval and dark age history did use them. Whether they worked or not would not have been scientific as it is today, but that's the point. It's historic medicine. I would bet the devs did look into that and even have the history of each herb written up in game.
No matter what you use... mechanics like saved games did not have a facsimile in medieval history/reality. Some things need to be linked to the current world or the game would take your entire life to play. I think that the kcd devs did a good job "where they could" of making the experience as real as they could.
Did you ever read a Bernard Cornwell dark age or medieval novel? He does a good job of looking at things from the perspective of a person from that age. Susperstition, potions and all. They believed things that we do not and could have even enjoyed placebo effects.
So, what part of Assassin's Creed Shadows crosses this line, which superstitious beliefs being true does not cross?
I just remember that when I tried the original way back in the day and watched videos of the various other games in the series being less than what KCD has done. I have not played much Assassins Creed for this reason.
I'd be surprised if you told me you thought Assassin's Creed games did a better job in all aspects in this regard than KCD.
Well, it's kind of apples and oranges because Assassin's Creed is a sci fi series that involves time travel mind displacement nonsense and a main character with superpowers, whereas KCD is more like historical fiction. Authentic, but probably not super accurate.
I think I might've been talking past you a bit, but we seem to be in agreement here. I got hung up on your use of the word "rigid" when I really don't see KCD2 as being all that rigidly realistic or historically accurate. Authentic, for sure, but not rigidly accurate. But yeah, if you're talking about basic gameplay mechanics, KCD definitely feels more like an authentic time period simulator than Assassin's Creed. :peace: