For me this just proves how far apart the West and the Arab nations are when it comes to the concept of free speech.
Quote
Egypt's Prime Minister Hisham Qandil has said the US must do all it can to stop people insulting Islam.
In an interview with BBC Arabic, Mr Qandil said it was "unacceptable to insult our Prophet" but also not right for peaceful protests to turn violent.
His comments come amid protests in the Middle East and north Africa over an anti-Islam film made in the US.
A man suspected of being involved in making in the film is being questioned by US probation officers.
Nakoula Basseley Nakoula has denied involvement in the film, clips of which have been posted online.
The film has sparked violent protests in several countries, leaving at least seven people dead.
US embassies and Western businesses have been attacked, including the US consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi, where the ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans were killed.
The US has increased security at its overseas missions. It wants to send Marines to protect its embassy in the Sudanese capital Khartoum, but Sudan has rejected the request, saying it was able to handle security itself.
Mr Qandil said the film had been made by "wicked" amateurs, but that while it was "unacceptable to insult our Prophet" it was also "unjustifiable to have a peaceful demo turned violent".
The Egyptian authorities have taken measures to ensure the safety of foreign diplomatic missions in Egypt, he said, but all sides needed now to improve their view of each other.
"Egyptians, Arabs, Muslims - we need to reflect the true identity of Muslims, how peaceful they are, and talk to the Western media about the true heart of the Muslims, that they condemn violence," said Mr Qandil.
"At the same time we need to reach a balance between freedom of expression and to maintain respect for other peoples' beliefs."
When asked whether he thought the US should change its laws governing freedom of speech laws, he replied: "I think we need to work out something around this because we cannot wait and see this happen again."
"This is a small number of people doing irresponsible work and everybody's paying the price."
The link between the US and Egypt was, he said, "a relationship that we need to make stronger based on mutual interests and respect for sovereignty".
He also called on the US, and other governments, to "take the necessary measures to ensure insulting billions of people, one-and-a-half billion people and their beliefs, does not happen and people pay for what they do, and at the same time make sure that the reflections of the true Egyptian and Muslims is well in the Western media."
The US has historically had a close relationship to Egypt, but earlier this week President Barack Obama said of Cairo: "I don't think that we would consider them an ally, but we don't consider them an enemy."
"They are a new government that's trying to find its way....I think we have to see how they respond to this incident."
Film-maker suspect
Any portrayal of the Prophet is considered blasphemous to Muslims, but the film, a low-budget, amateurish production called Innocence of Muslims, depicts him as a womaniser and leader of a group of bloodthirsty men.
It also touched on themes of paedophilia and homosexuality.
The exact origin of the film and motivation behind it are still unclear and much misleading information has been circulated about its production.
The original posting of a 14-minute trailer for the film on Youtube came from an account linked to the name 'sambacile'. Clips have also been shown on Arabic TV channels.
No film-maker by the name of Sam Bacile has been traced, and the US authorities suspect Nakoula Basseley Nakoula of using the pseudonym.
Nakoula, who has has a criminal record for bank fraud and drug offences, volunteered for questioning and was escorted from his home by officials early on Saturday, according to a spokesman for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.
'Denounce without anger'
Protests against the film began on Tuesday, in the Egyptian capital Cairo.
They then spread to Libya - where the ambassador, US officials and Libyan consulate staff were killed when the consulate was set on fire on Tuesday.
An insurgent group is suspected of taking advantage of the protests to launch an ambush.
Angry protests have also erupted in countries including Sudan, Tunisia, Yemen, Lebanon, Somalia, Iraq, Pakistan and Turkey.
There were clashes between Muslim protesters and police in Sydney, Australia on Saturday. Police used pepper spray to disperse the crowds as they tried to enter the US consulate building.
On Saturday, insurgents attacked Nato's heavily fortified Camp Bastion base in southern Afghanistan, killing at least two US Marines. The Taliban told the BBC it had carried out the attack in revenge for the film.
Western and Middle Eastern leaders have called for calm.
Grand Mufti Sheik Abdel-Aziz al-Sheik, the highest religious authority in Saudi Arabia, said Muslims should "denounce it without anger".
"Muslims should not be dragged by wrath and anger to shift from legitimate to forbidden action and by this, they will, unknowingly, fulfil some aims of the film," the Associated Press news agency quoted him as saying.
The European Union has urged leaders in Arab and Muslim countries to "call immediately for peace and restraint".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19612408
Yup.
We still haven't coined a good word for what they are. The most accurate is probably Islamo-fascists, but simple fascists is even shorter and gets directly to the point. We don't really care whether it's religiously motivated or not, the outcome is the same: a totalitarian state at odds with our own democratic ones.
This whole conflagration is obviously orchestrated by parties who profit from the chaos but I have to keep wondering what would have happened if the 'film' had been made in China and it's release into the wild had included this fact. How would China have reacted to the murder of their diplomatic staff and would the ruckus have spread to so many of their embassies and consulates in various Middle Eastern countries? Would we have American Muslims chanting outside the Chinese embassy here in the US?
Mind you I'm not picking specifically on the Chinese (despite their many geopolitical faults) but I couldn't think of another world player not connected to the US besides Russia and they no longer have the clout they had worldwide.
Quote from: Staggerwing on September 15, 2012, 12:32:53 PM
Russia and they no longer have the clout they had worldwide.
Maybe not but they know how to deal with extremists, if true, would Western governments have the gonads to do it this way? Doubt it though.
Quote
Almost six year later, in October 1985, Alpha Group would be dispatched to Beirut, Lebanon after the Kremlin was informed that four Soviet diplomats had been taken hostage by a Sunni extremist group. By the time Alpha was on-site, word had spread that one of the hostages had already been killed. Through a network of supporting KGB operatives, members of the task-force were able to successfully identify each of the perpetrators involved in the crisis, and once discovered, began to take the individual relatives of the extremists hostage. Following the standard Soviet policy of "no negotiation with terrorists," the hostages belonging to Alpha Group had some of their body parts cut off and sent directly to the Sunni militants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Group
One can only dream...
I'll take Islamofascists for 100, LB.
Quote from: The Puss on September 15, 2012, 12:02:09 PM
For me this just proves how far apart the West and the Arab nations are when it comes to the concept of free speech.
Quote
Egypt's Prime Minister Hisham Qandil has said the US must do all it can to stop people insulting Islam.
In an interview with BBC Arabic, Mr Qandil said it was "unacceptable to insult our Prophet" but also not right for peaceful protests to turn violent.
His comments come amid protests in the Middle East and north Africa over an anti-Islam film made in the US.
A man suspected of being involved in making in the film is being questioned by US probation officers.
Nakoula Basseley Nakoula has denied involvement in the film, clips of which have been posted online.
The film has sparked violent protests in several countries, leaving at least seven people dead.
US embassies and Western businesses have been attacked, including the US consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi, where the ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans were killed.
The US has increased security at its overseas missions. It wants to send Marines to protect its embassy in the Sudanese capital Khartoum, but Sudan has rejected the request, saying it was able to handle security itself.
Mr Qandil said the film had been made by "wicked" amateurs, but that while it was "unacceptable to insult our Prophet" it was also "unjustifiable to have a peaceful demo turned violent".
The Egyptian authorities have taken measures to ensure the safety of foreign diplomatic missions in Egypt, he said, but all sides needed now to improve their view of each other.
"Egyptians, Arabs, Muslims - we need to reflect the true identity of Muslims, how peaceful they are, and talk to the Western media about the true heart of the Muslims, that they condemn violence," said Mr Qandil.
"At the same time we need to reach a balance between freedom of expression and to maintain respect for other peoples' beliefs."
When asked whether he thought the US should change its laws governing freedom of speech laws, he replied: "I think we need to work out something around this because we cannot wait and see this happen again."
"This is a small number of people doing irresponsible work and everybody's paying the price."
The link between the US and Egypt was, he said, "a relationship that we need to make stronger based on mutual interests and respect for sovereignty".
He also called on the US, and other governments, to "take the necessary measures to ensure insulting billions of people, one-and-a-half billion people and their beliefs, does not happen and people pay for what they do, and at the same time make sure that the reflections of the true Egyptian and Muslims is well in the Western media."
The US has historically had a close relationship to Egypt, but earlier this week President Barack Obama said of Cairo: "I don't think that we would consider them an ally, but we don't consider them an enemy."
"They are a new government that's trying to find its way....I think we have to see how they respond to this incident."
Film-maker suspect
Any portrayal of the Prophet is considered blasphemous to Muslims, but the film, a low-budget, amateurish production called Innocence of Muslims, depicts him as a womaniser and leader of a group of bloodthirsty men.
It also touched on themes of paedophilia and homosexuality.
The exact origin of the film and motivation behind it are still unclear and much misleading information has been circulated about its production.
The original posting of a 14-minute trailer for the film on Youtube came from an account linked to the name 'sambacile'. Clips have also been shown on Arabic TV channels.
No film-maker by the name of Sam Bacile has been traced, and the US authorities suspect Nakoula Basseley Nakoula of using the pseudonym.
Nakoula, who has has a criminal record for bank fraud and drug offences, volunteered for questioning and was escorted from his home by officials early on Saturday, according to a spokesman for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.
'Denounce without anger'
Protests against the film began on Tuesday, in the Egyptian capital Cairo.
They then spread to Libya - where the ambassador, US officials and Libyan consulate staff were killed when the consulate was set on fire on Tuesday.
An insurgent group is suspected of taking advantage of the protests to launch an ambush.
Angry protests have also erupted in countries including Sudan, Tunisia, Yemen, Lebanon, Somalia, Iraq, Pakistan and Turkey.
There were clashes between Muslim protesters and police in Sydney, Australia on Saturday. Police used pepper spray to disperse the crowds as they tried to enter the US consulate building.
On Saturday, insurgents attacked Nato's heavily fortified Camp Bastion base in southern Afghanistan, killing at least two US Marines. The Taliban told the BBC it had carried out the attack in revenge for the film.
Western and Middle Eastern leaders have called for calm.
Grand Mufti Sheik Abdel-Aziz al-Sheik, the highest religious authority in Saudi Arabia, said Muslims should "denounce it without anger".
"Muslims should not be dragged by wrath and anger to shift from legitimate to forbidden action and by this, they will, unknowingly, fulfil some aims of the film," the Associated Press news agency quoted him as saying.
The European Union has urged leaders in Arab and Muslim countries to "call immediately for peace and restraint".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19612408
I'm tempted to start a "Mohammed blows goats" website in protest, but they'd probably just take it as a compliment...
Quote from: Gusington on September 15, 2012, 02:48:44 PM
I'll take Islamofascists for 100, LB.
How about Islamonazis? Fascism is a leftist term de regour for anything found objectionable.
Whay do we need to invent a name when we have some really good ones already: Islamists or just Muslims.
Quote from: pawelj on September 17, 2012, 08:50:33 AM
Quote from: Gusington on September 15, 2012, 02:48:44 PM
I'll take Islamofascists for 100, LB.
How about Islamonazis? Fascism is a leftist term de regour for anything found objectionable.
Whay do we need to invent a name when we have some really good ones already: Islamists or just Muslims.
Because it's not correct.
Quote from: LongBlade on September 17, 2012, 09:05:46 AM
Quote from: pawelj on September 17, 2012, 08:50:33 AM
Quote from: Gusington on September 15, 2012, 02:48:44 PM
I'll take Islamofascists for 100, LB.
How about Islamonazis? Fascism is a leftist term de regour for anything found objectionable.
Whay do we need to invent a name when we have some really good ones already: Islamists or just Muslims.
Because it's not correct.
Which one?
I'm really starting to understand why dictatorships are the gov't of choice in the Middle East. Democracy kills when it comes to all these freakin' radicals.......
Quote from: MIGMaster on September 17, 2012, 09:22:48 AM
I'm really starting to understand why dictatorships are the gov't of choice in the Middle East. Democracy kills when it comes to all these freakin' radicals.......
Whos "choice"?
In some cases the choice of the people and in some instances the choice of the dictators.
Quote from: pawelj on September 17, 2012, 08:50:33 AM
How about Islamonazis?
...its an insult to Nazis ;D
how about Prophet whore garbage ;)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.klabusterbeere.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F08%2FM%25C3%25BCsabur.jpeg&hash=17b65aa8a087a5db121919dae564ea8fede7553e)
The less said about what I think of religion in general, the better. But I can't let this slide:
Quote"At the same time we need to reach a balance between freedom of expression and to maintain respect for other peoples' beliefs."
Just NO. Why in the name of sodomy should anyone's freedom of speech be compromised because it might hurt some religious zealot's little feelings? Fuck right off.
By the way, you can't have freedom of speech and "balance." You're either free to speak your mind or you aren't. He says balance, he means limitations. ARGH this makes me so angry.
Quote from: The Puss on September 15, 2012, 01:33:52 PM
Quote
Almost six year later, in October 1985, Alpha Group would be dispatched to Beirut, Lebanon after the Kremlin was informed that four Soviet diplomats had been taken hostage by a Sunni extremist group. By the time Alpha was on-site, word had spread that one of the hostages had already been killed. Through a network of supporting KGB operatives, members of the task-force were able to successfully identify each of the perpetrators involved in the crisis, and once discovered, began to take the individual relatives of the extremists hostage. Following the standard Soviet policy of "no negotiation with terrorists," the hostages belonging to Alpha Group had some of their body parts cut off and sent directly to the Sunni militants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Group
This is why I admire the Russians. One of the few Western cultures that are not afraid to use a wave of brutality when dealing with terrorist scum.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fextremecentre.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2FCharlie-Hebdo-Mahoemt.jpg&hash=e5695175ef8da9b263ef3ff1dbb2d8bda4a48cb1)
(i hope some higher res pics will surface soon)
these French have guts 8)
after the rooms of "Charlie Hebdo" satirical magazine got torched in 11/2011 they release new cartoons in their latest issue
now if i onyl could read French :-[
admirable move by the French.
W8taminute: i am not sure if this russian esprit isn't somewhat connected with their general disregard of the individual, his right and his life...
Quote from: Keunert on September 19, 2012, 03:43:48 AM
i am not sure if this russian esprit isn't somewhat connected with their general disregard of the individual, his right and his life...
Well we all know that the Russians don't have a very high regard for life but neither do the terrorists.