http://www.amazon.com/Civilization-West-Rest-Niall-Ferguson/dp/1594203059/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1349136088&sr=1-1&keywords=civilization (http://www.amazon.com/Civilization-West-Rest-Niall-Ferguson/dp/1594203059/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1349136088&sr=1-1&keywords=civilization)
Any recommendations?
I believe I heard an hour long lecture based on it. It was awesome.
I read both Colossus and Empire by Ferguson and enjoyed both of them. Don't know if you've read anything by him before, Kev.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 01, 2012, 08:12:47 PM
I believe I heard an hour long lecture based on it. It was awesome.
I believe you linked that to us. Yes, it was.
Are you going to get the book?
Quote from: Gusington on October 01, 2012, 08:24:32 PM
I read both Colossus and Empire by Ferguson and enjoyed both of them. Don't know if you've read anything by him before, Kev.
No, I've seen him on tv a few times.
The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World is another good one.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 01, 2012, 09:47:47 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 01, 2012, 08:12:47 PM
I believe I heard an hour long lecture based on it. It was awesome.
I believe you linked that to us. Yes, it was.
Are you going to get the book?
I buy so many dang books that honestly, I'd forgotten about this one until you brought it up again.
Am I going to buy it? I'm thinking no. First, I listened to the lecture from end to end and think I got the gist. Second, I have too many books to read - probably in a lifetime. And I'll buy more. Unless something comes up in the kids' social studies classes I will be unlikely to get this simply because the reference points are in my head now; I'll only get it if I need to revisit them. (Considering the topics that come up here, however, that possibility remains strong).
I agree with the author's premise's. We got to the top of the heap for those reasons. He forgot one though in my opinion: social adaptability. Our societies quickly (relative term now) adapted to harness the other six. Without social adaptability we can't optimize the outcomes from the others.
IMO, thats what is the major hurdle facing the US right now.... lack of adaptability (or stagnation)
Quote from: Windigo on October 02, 2012, 12:07:47 PM
I agree with the author's premise's. We got to the top of the heap for those reasons. He forgot one though in my opinion: social adaptability. Our societies quickly (relative term now) adapted to harness the other six. Without social adaptability we can't optimize the outcomes from the others.
IMO, thats what is the major hurdle facing the US right now.... lack of adaptability (or stagnation)
I'm willing to entertain that thought, but I don't follow. What's the context of a lack of adaptability? Seems like the hallmark of our culture is a melting pot, so I'm not following you.
the West developed six powerful new concepts that the Rest lacked: competition, science, the rule of law, modern medicine, consumerism, and the work ethic.
look at each of those and think of stagnation brought about by political/social stalemate.... which inhibits adaptability
consumerism is about the only one still going strong and driving the rest
Quote from: Windigo on October 02, 2012, 03:20:46 PM
the West developed six powerful new concepts that the Rest lacked: competition, science, the rule of law, modern medicine, consumerism, and the work ethic.
look at each of those and think of stagnation brought about by political/social stalemate.... which inhibits adaptability
consumerism is about the only one still going strong and driving the rest
It could be a matter of gaming the system on those 6 points. People have learned to milk the systems by manipulating them. They no longer achieve what they were meant for because of this. If by lack of flexibility you mean associated bureaucracy, i agree.
Quote from: eyebiter on October 01, 2012, 10:04:26 PM
The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World is another good one.
The video series was good.
Breezy are you serious when you state that the West developed the rule of law, modern medicine, and a work ethic? Shirley you jest.
Quote from: Gusington on October 02, 2012, 06:08:53 PM
Breezy are you serious when you state that the West developed the rule of law, modern medicine, and a work ethic? Shirley you jest.
The 6 killer apps are Niall's point not Windy's. Of course there has been medicine as long as there have been humanoids. The point is more about modern medicine. ie Based on the treatment of pathogens. If I remember rightly there was a nurse in WWI that revolutionized the way soldiers were treated. She realized they were dying from disease, not their wounds.
Western law flows for the Magna Carta - the limitation of the King to do Whatever the F he likes. Work ethic is more about the industrial revolution's reorganization of work.
Something occured to me while surfing. My theory is everything flows from 1 thing - the Magna Carta. Stated another way advancement is based on the removal of the powers of coercion. A corrupt society based on coercion cannot advance. Niall's 6 killer apps are a result of the freedom of individuals.
How do you like them apples? Eat your heart out Niall. J/K
Which book are the '6 killer apps' from? Breezy's still a hippie.
See the link in post 1. I haven't read it yet.
Amazon is crack.
damn Gussy-poo get with the program.....
I know I know.
Anyway breezy I wouldn't peg you as a Ferguson fan. You are an enigma wrapped in a hippie.
Quote from: Gusington on October 03, 2012, 02:28:25 PM
I know I know.
Anyway breezy I wouldn't peg you as a Ferguson fan. You are an enigma wrapped in a hippie.
If...if! I smoked dope
& was in the armed forces (armour), I think those in the know would call me Oddball (love Kelly's Heroes) ...
Ha you spell armor funny
Quote from: Gusington on October 03, 2012, 05:14:30 PM
Ha you spell armor funny
queens dictionary and all that eh?
What you do in the privacy of your northern confines is your business.
As a proud member (heh) of the NATO alliance and free man (but only a little easy) of Canada- the US' best friend; I am honored to be able to foray in your country for fossils that in our country are claimed by Her Majesty if I found them here in Canada.
Quibbling aside the claim is quite preposterous and more than a little tyrannical. So to feed my passion I must journey to the lands of the minuteman and freedom... And inexpensive beer
Stay confined indeed... Give a man a dam to play with and he gets all fascist on his hippie buddies
Her Majesty really claims all your fossils?
Quote from: Gusington on October 04, 2012, 08:59:52 PM
Her Majesty really claims all your fossils?
I dunno why but that question sounds somehow vaguely 'dirty'... must have been the talk about bookshelves in another thread that made me react this way. :D
Quote from: Gusington on October 04, 2012, 08:59:52 PM
Her Majesty really claims all your fossils?
Absolutely... and the water too ( which is my specialty). You of course can get caretaker status for any fossils you find, but selling the right to be a caretaker of a fossil is frowned upon most direly.
How very droll. And British.
Quote from: Gusington on October 05, 2012, 07:19:15 AM
How very droll. And British.
yeah, but still civilized .... tea?
Oh yeah, I'd love a cuppa. One sugar please.
I'm sorry...I hate tea.
Hey, Gus is merely following in the steps of Sam Adams and all the other Sons of Liberty who threw tea into Boston Harbor.
Anyone know if the shipowners and crews ever got compensated for losing their cargoes to Red Indians?
No way I am paying for that party.
It would be a very generous, altruistic thing to do.
C'mon, Gus, next time we need help against those Canadistannis, the brits might be nice and help?
Look how we helped against Kaiser Bill, and those National Socialists.
The last time we got into it with the Canadians it didn't end well and the way the Brits helped was to burn DC!!
'Might be nice and help' my left American buttock.
:)
Well, the brits are learning and changing. It just takes them a bit longer.
After all they burned Joan of Arc at the stake.
They never burned George Washington at the stake, just the city named for him.
That's progress. (Of course, if they had captured him the temptation might have been overwhelming.)
^Ever the optimist...that's why we love you.
Actually, I think that technically we baked Joan of Arc, as she was wearing armour at the time. Anyway, we're pretty much vegitarians now, due to the bacon shortage.
Quote from: bob48 on October 10, 2012, 02:20:45 PM
Actually, I think that technically we baked Joan of Arc, as she was wearing armour at the time. Anyway, we're pretty much vegitarians now, due to the bacon shortage.
Here after known as Joan [late] of [the] Dutch Oven.
...and steak is far too expensive here, so we couldn't tie her to one of those, 'spect we'd have to tie her to a carrot or stick of rhubarb now. Something healthy, anyway.
Well, not for her, obviously.......