I have never really gotten into any MMO, however after reading this preview I am very interested in ES Online. They have an unique approach that almost is a game within a game....
http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/elderscrollsonline/previews.html (http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/elderscrollsonline/previews.html)
PE
I'm really excited for this one. What will make or break the game IMO is whether is free to play or subscription based. I fear even if they launch subscription base then transition to free to play it will just get shoved under the carpet like the Old Republic and the Star Trek MMO. Not saying that either of those games are bad, but I know Old Republics population is below 1 million players. Even the new WoW expansion has under performed compared to previous expansions. And I don't think most games are going to be able to do a transition like LOTRO and D&D Online did. I think that was a one time thing because they were the first to do it. Now with games like GW2 being free out of the box, and subscription based MMO is now longer appealing for the majority of the MMO crowd.
I like how you can set your gaming preferences (RP, PVP, Solo, Group, etc.) and it will seamlessly transition you to subservers instead of being locked into one server. I mainly solo most of the lower level content then group for end game raids/dungeons, and I don't pvp.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't free-to-play as that seems to be the far superior model for MMOs right now.
But then again, it may just be the premium price up front with no monthly fees, but a cash shop in-game, like Guild Wars 2? Either way - I'd almost guarantee it has a cash shop.
Recent MMOs have been too "samey" for me, even if they are free to play.
I think that these guys really need to do something new, unique and "out of the box". They did that with the RPG; crossing my fingers they will do the same in MMO land.
Quote from: ArizonaTank on October 23, 2012, 06:12:03 AM
Recent MMOs have been too "samey" for me, even if they are free to play.
I think that these guys really need to do something new, unique and "out of the box". They did that with the RPG; crossing my fingers they will do the same in MMO land.
Agreed. I've been pretty MMO'd out the last few years. I can't even keep playing Guild Wars 2 for very long and it's a little different than the run-of-the-mill.
I don't think they need a massively drastic change in mechanics but more so in the content and the experience itself.
If this has the hook we are all hoping it has it may be the first MMO I play. That or Mechwarrior.
Quote from: Gusington on October 23, 2012, 05:46:14 PM
If this has the hook we are all hoping it has it may be the first MMO I play.
Me too.
I've always wanted a strategy game set in the Elder Scrolls universe too.
Quote from: Gusington on October 23, 2012, 05:46:14 PM
If this has the hook we are all hoping it has it may be the first MMO I play. That or Mechwarrior.
I've moved on to the more action-y match-based games, I think. While Mechwarrior Online just doesn't have a lot of content right now, I think it will take the old place of MMORPGs for awhile once it (eventually) gets the Inner Sphere War thing implemented, if it's anything like the old 3025 beta's war/campaign layer back in the day. I'm not sure if it has enough to draw me in right now, though. Still.. there's War Thunder and that one looks like it will be the cat's peanut butter pajamas if they ever get everything in & finished.
I can see these new sim-like Match-MMOs substituting for the classic style MMOs for people burned out on the latter, like me, for a time. I can even see these things gaining more traits of the RPG ones in the future (such as the persistent planet/galaxy aimed for in MWO) and that's something to look forward to.
Cat's peanut butter pajamas eh?
Anyone else thinks a game full of "The Dragonborn" jumping around all the time to level and shouting Fus Roh Dah! is a little bit idiotic? :P
Quote from: Gusington on October 24, 2012, 07:42:26 AM
Cat's peanut butter pajamas eh?
The Kitten's pimento cheese mittens.
Do you know how fast you were going, meow?
Wow you're more far gone than I thought.
The game is now available for pre-order.
If you do so via GreenManGaming you can use the voucher:
GISYAV-14G1V5-7ZD5S3
For 25% off.
Ugh, seems to be a 1-time use voucher :(
From Rocks/Paper/Shotgun....looks to be a quite expensive game. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/29/the-elder-scrolls-online-is-really-very-expensive/#more-187195
Doesn't seem more expensive than any other MMO out there.
I think some people may have got a bit spoiled by all those Free-2-Play games that keep coming out :P
I'm still looking for that Guild Wars 2 replacement but, I don't like the cost model on this one. You have to buy the software plus on-going monthly fees, Ugh!
Has any new pay to play MMO game made it in the last few years?
I have been considering purchasing the retail boxed version of The Elder Scrolls Online Imperial Edition. The only retailer I have found so far for it has been GameStop (http://www.gamestop.com/pc/games/the-elder-scrolls-online-imperial-edition/113688) who offers it for $99.99 U.S. Anyone not wanting a physical copy can buy the Digital Imperial Edition direct from Bethesda (https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/store?q=a5540396-273e-4362-842f-fe6c421c6a55&p=8f097959-9696-47fa-9913-a398f39b8a6a&ts=1391023922&c=zenimaxonline&e=live&rt=Safetynet&h=02cdc52a198be110f07c6883edf7b4a9) for $79.99 U.S.
In the U.S. the retail boxed standard edition of the game can be purchased for $59.99 from GameStop (http://www.gamestop.com/pc/games/the-elder-scrolls-online/101905), Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/the-elder-scrolls-online-mac-windows/5622756.p?id=1218677496382&skuId=5622756&st=The%20Elder%20Scrolls%20Online%20Imperial%20Edition&lp=9&cp=1), Target (http://www.target.com/p/the-elder-scrolls-online-pc-game/-/A-15064005#prodSlot=medium_1_2&term=The+Elder+Scrolls+Online+Imperial+Edition), Walmart (http://www.walmart.com/ip/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-PC-Mac-PC-Games/20895851), and Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832136030). I don't know if that list is complete and I'm not even going to attempt listing all the digital sources of The Elder Scrolls Online.
I, too, would prefer a subscription based game over a Free-to-Play model.
I'm alright with the $14.95 per month sub model if the game is good enough. It's the initial cost that can be brutal for those, however. This looks like one of those times.
I fully expect it to be another glorified WOW clone so I'm not gonna bother unless my old guildies are still into it after the new MMO smell wears off.
I've been stuck in a rut, with MMO's that are not satisfying my needs... any free to play ones, always gnaw at my soul. And ones I'm paying for, always end up sucking more money out of me, than I actually play. FFXIV was the latest, subbed for 3 months, played for 2. I've been dabbling more and more back in DC Universe Online, simply because Heroes is tickling my ivories at the moment, but its back to free to play.
ESO is an option, but it depends if it lives up to the hype.
I think the only MMO that has delivered on value last year is Defiance. The cost of the initial purchase price is all you'll pay, and any DLC you fancy. Perhaps I'll gravitate back to that.
ESO though, might have to be on the tasting platter on PS4.
Quote from: spelk on January 29, 2014, 05:47:48 PM
I've been stuck in a rut, with MMO's that are not satisfying my needs... any free to play ones, always gnaw at my soul. And ones I'm paying for, always end up sucking more money out of me, than I actually play. FFXIV was the latest, subbed for 3 months, played for 2. I've been dabbling more and more back in DC Universe Online, simply because Heroes is tickling my ivories at the moment, but its back to free to play.
I've only been playing
Marvel Heroes online the last few months, and that's not a traditional MMO anway. More like
Diablo 2 with better multi-player and superheroes.
Quote from: Nefaro on January 29, 2014, 05:55:59 PM
Quote from: spelk on January 29, 2014, 05:47:48 PM
I've been stuck in a rut, with MMO's that are not satisfying my needs... any free to play ones, always gnaw at my soul. And ones I'm paying for, always end up sucking more money out of me, than I actually play. FFXIV was the latest, subbed for 3 months, played for 2. I've been dabbling more and more back in DC Universe Online, simply because Heroes is tickling my ivories at the moment, but its back to free to play.
I've only been playing Marvel Heroes online the last few months, and that's not a traditional MMO anway. More like Diablo 2 with better multi-player and superheroes.
And a neverending stream of new content :P
I don't play MMOs but I am interested in this becuase I like Morrowind. I wonder how engaging the game will be for someone like me who hates people and just wants to dungeoneer solo...
Quote from: Gusington on January 30, 2014, 12:13:10 PM
I don't play MMOs but I am interested in this becuase I like Morrowind. I wonder how engaging the game will be for someone like me who hates people and just wants to dungeoneer solo...
I would say that the solo-ability will probably be fairly high. Most MMORPG developers have realized that a significant amount of people want to play "Multiplayer Solitaire," where they *can* interact with people but largely choose to not do so. Like other MMORPGs, there will probably be major dungeons, wold bosses, and some quests that cannot be soloed, but this never bothered me in games like WoW.
Also, many next-gen MMORPGs are including a sort of defacto "solo grouping" by having certain "events" pop up in the world that act as sort of a shared quest for people within that zone. So you aren't directly questing with people, but every kill or action you and others take add to a larger pool to gain success. Then the system rewards all participants depending on their level of participation. I have no idea if ESO plans to do this, but I would suspect that it will.
Wow, great post...thanks.
QuoteMost MMORPG developers have realized that a significant amount of people want to play "Multiplayer Solitaire"
I'd wait for release & some reviews before purchasing for just solo play. Guild Wars 2 has a lot of solo play but, Anet is pushing players to group together in more and more content. Dungeons are the best way to make gold in Guild Wars2 and even I started doing dungeons with pug groups.
I read a post on another forum (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?69364-The-Elder-Scrolls-Online&p=3517462&highlight=#post3517462) that concerns me:
Quote from: MurbellaAll I know is that my coworkers are huge elder scrolls fans and were talking about ESO for a long time... until they played the beta.
Today i linked them the GMG 25% off ESO deal in case they missed it and was met with complete disinterest.
I expect this game to be Free to play by the end of the year, if not sooner.
Now I'm starting to get cold feet.
Ok I'm going to tell it like it is.
This has fiasco written all over it. Be smart on this one. Wait a bit. Let the game launch, the the reviews clobber it, the dust to settle a bit, and then reconsider.
I don't see any way this $60+ buy in and then a monthly $15+ is going to work. Not to mention I have a suspicion this game is going to fall far short of expectations.
So don't do Rome 2 all over again. Give this one a chance to evolve a bit before you jump in.
Unless you have tons of spare money laying around. Then by all means jump in and tell the rest of us about it.
MMO's have become a strange business, older MMO's can still charge monthly fees and get away with it, but I don't know of any new MMO in the last few years with a pay to play model that as made it.
Is it because the new MMO's aren't as good or have expectations become so high now, no new MMO can meet the content level of older MMO's at launch?
I have no idea how companies figure out their pricing models, but this is flashing failure in bright neon lights.
Think about it. First, all of the ES games are extraordinary games, so ESO has huge shoes to fill. Then, you have this pricing model. The $60 to just try it is against the industry standard and is likely to put off many potential customers (like me). Finally, I have this suspicion that the reviewers are going to blast the crap out of this game.
The combination of these factors is going to completely stifle this game. If it was some indy game then I don't know. But Skyrim is so freaking awesome that I don't see how this is going to possibly be as awesome and so it's going to fail in the comparison.
I say all of this, admitting that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, so anything is possible! 8)
Quote from: SgtRock on January 30, 2014, 10:30:29 PM
Is it because the new MMO's aren't as good or have expectations become so high now, no new MMO can meet the content level of older MMO's at launch?
Most of the new full-featured MMORPGs do nothing new. So people either don't bother buying into them because they already have other MMO(s) they've invested time & money in or they
did try it out at release and realized after their first month or two that it's the same thing they've been playing for years (with new window dressing). The launch day numbers are always immense for these big name MMOs so I'm guessing quite a few are of the latter category. I know because I've been with them many times over the years.
One of the latest examples was SWTOR. It was more of the same, with lots of voice acting added. Many un-subbed not long after release due to it feeling like the same 'ole stuff. It's initial sale success was pretty much just due to it being 1) Star Wars, 2) from the makers of an earlier popular single-player RPG series, and 3) Pre-release hyped like crazy. Sound familiar?
Edit: Terrible grammar fixed. "Do" instead of "due"? I should be shot by a Spelling Nazi Firing Squad! :o
If you read the comments at RPS that's exactly what they say. Further, it doesn't really matter if the game has "legs." As long as it cleans up on release (with the $60 buy-in) then longevity almost doesn't matter.
I almost sound like I'm hoping the game does poorly, which isn't the case at all. I'm really excited about the prospects. I hope this game is awesome. I have problem investing in it if it's worth it.
Quote from: Toonces on January 31, 2014, 02:06:22 AM
If you read the comments at RPS that's exactly what they say. Further, it doesn't really matter if the game has "legs." As long as it cleans up on release (with the $60 buy-in) then longevity almost doesn't matter.
I almost sound like I'm hoping the game does poorly, which isn't the case at all. I'm really excited about the prospects. I hope this game is awesome. I have problem investing in it if it's worth it.
I agree.
That's why these big brand MMOs charge sixty bucks up front and a monthly fee. They're raking in all they can from the initial hype before it goes free-to-play in a year or so when their subs drop off immensely.
I, too, hope it will have a lot of innovative stuff and turns out something quite unique but I really doubt it. The Fantasy MMORPGs have been stuck copying each others' features so much that they're all pretty much the same these days.
Quote from: SgtRock on January 30, 2014, 10:30:29 PM
MMO's have become a strange business, older MMO's can still charge monthly fees and get away with it, but I don't know of any new MMO in the last few years with a pay to play model that as made it.
Is it because the new MMO's aren't as good or have expectations become so high now, no new MMO can meet the content level of older MMO's at launch?
Final Fantasy 14 A Realm Reborn is doing very well and has the traditional sub.
The Elder Scrolls Online has free beta keys available through a site/service, www.curse.com. Sign up for a free account at Curse, get a TESO beta key.
Quote from: skeptical.platypus on February 07, 2014, 10:32:32 PM
The Elder Scrolls Online has free beta keys available through a site/service, www.curse.com. Sign up for a free account at Curse, get a TESO beta key.
Thanks. I'll try this out.
Anyone knows if there is an actual official forum up for this game?
It seems everyone's using Facebook to communicate with the devs :P
I couldn't find one; until your post I assumed I wasn't looking hard enough.
There are so many bugs to report, and yet I can't find where to do so :(
Quote from: Yskonyn on January 31, 2014, 10:49:48 AM
Quote from: SgtRock on January 30, 2014, 10:30:29 PM
MMO's have become a strange business, older MMO's can still charge monthly fees and get away with it, but I don't know of any new MMO in the last few years with a pay to play model that as made it.
Is it because the new MMO's aren't as good or have expectations become so high now, no new MMO can meet the content level of older MMO's at launch?
Final Fantasy 14 A Realm Reborn is doing very well and has the traditional sub.
Also, WoW is still going strong and actually saw a growth in subs in the last few months.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 09, 2014, 03:21:30 PM
Quote from: Yskonyn on January 31, 2014, 10:49:48 AM
Quote from: SgtRock on January 30, 2014, 10:30:29 PM
MMO's have become a strange business, older MMO's can still charge monthly fees and get away with it, but I don't know of any new MMO in the last few years with a pay to play model that as made it.
Is it because the new MMO's aren't as good or have expectations become so high now, no new MMO can meet the content level of older MMO's at launch?
Final Fantasy 14 A Realm Reborn is doing very well and has the traditional sub.
Also, WoW is still going strong and actually saw a growth in subs in the last few months.
From what I know it's been in decline for years.
They've started offering more and more freebies to attract new players, and the fact they relaunched Diablo 3 (after originally cancelling the project to prevent "collision" with WoW) is another good indication of its slow death.
As for FF14, it's pretty new (the revised edition), so it might just be become F2P.
Quote from: Tpek on February 09, 2014, 03:58:27 PM
From what I know it's been in decline for years.
They've started offering more and more freebies to attract new players, and the fact they relaunched Diablo 3 (after originally cancelling the project to prevent "collision" with WoW) is another good indication of its slow death.
If you consider 7.8 million subscribers and a last month growth of 200,000 people "in decline." If this is a slow death, it is a very very slow one, given that it launched 10 years ago (hard to believe)!
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/07/world-of-warcraft-still-pulls-a-crowd/
I think F2P is a fad. I have yet to play a single F2P that had the quality of content that I see in the subscription model, with the possible exception of Neverwinter and Guild Wars 2 (although I did not much care for GW2, the build quality was evident). Besides, they are not really "free," considering you eventually will need or want to put in some $$ to even the odds. Currently I am playing Marvel Heroes off and on, but it really is a lame version of Torchlight. That being said, I've never tried Path of Exile more than a few hours, and I have heard it is an excellent F2P.
Man, I was really hoping that WoW would be definitive proof that when you introduce pandas or ewoks, you've killed your IP.
Lol, I am already looking forward to the articles where cynics and naysayers all jump on how WOW was a failure because it ended not looking at the fact how long it ran.
Of course WoW will have a decline in pop and eventually closes down. Be it due to another MMO by them, being just obsolete from a technical standpoint or whatever else might come up.
But the fact it already runs for 10 years makes the game and the sub model a success no matter what even if its only an example and many others didn't pull it off.
As for FFXIV; Naoki Yoshida still firmly believes the sub model is the best way for his game for now and the near future.
So I wouldn't expect the game to revert to free to play anytime soon at All. FF11 still runs with a sub too.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 09, 2014, 05:47:45 PM
Quote from: Tpek on February 09, 2014, 03:58:27 PM
From what I know it's been in decline for years.
They've started offering more and more freebies to attract new players, and the fact they relaunched Diablo 3 (after originally cancelling the project to prevent "collision" with WoW) is another good indication of its slow death.
If you consider 7.8 million subscribers and a last month growth of 200,000 people "in decline." If this is a slow death, it is a very very slow one, given that it launched 10 years ago (hard to believe)!
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/07/world-of-warcraft-still-pulls-a-crowd/
I think F2P is a fad. I have yet to play a single F2P that had the quality of content that I see in the subscription model, with the possible exception of Neverwinter and Guild Wars 2 (although I did not much care for GW2, the build quality was evident). Besides, they are not really "free," considering you eventually will need or want to put in some $$ to even the odds. Currently I am playing Marvel Heroes off and on, but it really is a lame version of Torchlight. That being said, I've never tried Path of Exile more than a few hours, and I have heard it is an excellent F2P.
I've read different statistics.
Not to mention how many of those 7.6 accounts are real subscribers, and real unique individuals who play for fun (not some chinese prisoners toiling in the gold-farms).
As for Marvel Heroes, it's pretty awesome.
I'm sorry you didn't like it (maybe you should give it another try), but I find it quite a lot of fun. Much more fun than Torchlight 2.
And that's even without the constant stream of new content that you get in MH.
Quote from: Tpek on February 10, 2014, 11:13:33 AM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 09, 2014, 05:47:45 PM
Quote from: Tpek on February 09, 2014, 03:58:27 PM
From what I know it's been in decline for years.
They've started offering more and more freebies to attract new players, and the fact they relaunched Diablo 3 (after originally cancelling the project to prevent "collision" with WoW) is another good indication of its slow death.
If you consider 7.8 million subscribers and a last month growth of 200,000 people "in decline." If this is a slow death, it is a very very slow one, given that it launched 10 years ago (hard to believe)!
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/07/world-of-warcraft-still-pulls-a-crowd/
I think F2P is a fad. I have yet to play a single F2P that had the quality of content that I see in the subscription model, with the possible exception of Neverwinter and Guild Wars 2 (although I did not much care for GW2, the build quality was evident). Besides, they are not really "free," considering you eventually will need or want to put in some $$ to even the odds. Currently I am playing Marvel Heroes off and on, but it really is a lame version of Torchlight. That being said, I've never tried Path of Exile more than a few hours, and I have heard it is an excellent F2P.
I've read different statistics.
Not to mention how many of those 7.6 accounts are real subscribers, and real unique individuals who play for fun (not some chinese prisoners toiling in the gold-farms).
As for Marvel Heroes, it's pretty awesome.
I'm sorry you didn't like it (maybe you should give it another try), but I find it quite a lot of fun. Much more fun than Torchlight 2.
And that's even without the constant stream of new content that you get in MH.
Who cares if they're playing for fun...they're all paying for it. That's the key part here. Every one of those people is pony-ing up the bucks on a monthly basis. 7.6 million people paying you a monthly fee is hardly a sign of a game in freefall.
Anyone have any impressions?
Yes. TESO has impressed upon me the importance of upgrading my dsl speed. Finally finished downloading this afternoon. After 37 hours.
Quote from: skeptical.platypus on February 11, 2014, 12:26:53 AM
Yes. TESO has impressed upon me the importance of upgrading my dsl speed. Finally finished downloading this afternoon. After 37 hours.
OUCH!
My download speed was slow for this game as well, but not like this.
Quote from: SgtRock on February 10, 2014, 11:16:09 PM
Anyone have any impressions?
I think the NDA is still in effect for anyone who is in the beta.
Quote from: Tpek on February 11, 2014, 03:58:51 PM
Quote from: skeptical.platypus on February 11, 2014, 12:26:53 AM
Yes. TESO has impressed upon me the importance of upgrading my dsl speed. Finally finished downloading this afternoon. After 37 hours.
OUCH!
My download speed was slow for this game as well, but not like this.
Yeah, I noticed you were finding bugs while I was still at 77%, lol.
I should point out that if anyone is scared off by my eonic (not a word) download, TESO was downloading as fast as my pipe could take it. 1mb downstream and 750k upstream is no way to go through the internet, son.
I really hope it's a hit. My best friend is the head writer. He' pretty happy with the feedback they've been getting in the media so far.
Chris--
Very cool. I i ;Dagine a head writer for a project like TESO can put himself under some pretty serious pressure. Hopefully the positive feedback loops into even more awesome back story, plot, dialogue, puns, etc.!
I hope he gets to drop in some personal easter eggs, too. Ala Larry, Darryl, and Darryl from Baldur's Gate. ;D
Beta NDA has been lifted.
Also, it seems to require me to reinstall/redownload the entire game :P
EDIT: Seems the launcher updated, which caused my selected region to reset itself to Europe. So it downloaded the European version of the client.
Once I set it back to America all was fine :)
Elder Scrolls Online crosses the line?
^ That dude is full of NERD RAAAAGE!
It has been pretty standard for CE's and Expansions or DLC to offer pay-to-play races. Not sure the fuss of that.
I enjoyed the Beta but price up front and subscription putting me off, I dont think they needed such a large upfront price. I can live with subscription games when they are supported properly.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 25, 2014, 10:14:20 PM
^ That dude is full of NERD RAAAAGE!
It has been pretty standard for CE's and Expansions or DLC to offer pay-to-play races. Not sure the fuss of that.
Normally when you pay subscriptions you get access to all features of the game. Here they in essence tell you to first pay for the game, then pay subscription and on top also pay extra for certain features or in this case a race. Thats just not right
The 30Gb download is what has put me off. And the probability that it won't run in a playable state on my lowly laptop.
Quote from: jejo68 on February 26, 2014, 04:39:51 AM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 25, 2014, 10:14:20 PM
^ That dude is full of NERD RAAAAGE!
It has been pretty standard for CE's and Expansions or DLC to offer pay-to-play races. Not sure the fuss of that.
Normally when you pay subscriptions you get access to all features of the game. Here they in essence tell you to first pay for the game, then pay subscription and on top also pay extra for certain features or in this case a race. Thats just not right
Not really.
WoW and most subscription based MMOs (if not all of them)
DO require you to purchase expansions and the like.
It is only in F2P games that paying a monthly subscription offers similar benefits.
In anycase, this weekend another beta test is coming. And I've got a spare key if anyone wants.
Quote from: Tpek on February 26, 2014, 10:34:34 AM
Quote from: jejo68 on February 26, 2014, 04:39:51 AM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 25, 2014, 10:14:20 PM
^ That dude is full of NERD RAAAAGE!
It has been pretty standard for CE's and Expansions or DLC to offer pay-to-play races. Not sure the fuss of that.
Normally when you pay subscriptions you get access to all features of the game. Here they in essence tell you to first pay for the game, then pay subscription and on top also pay extra for certain features or in this case a race. Thats just not right
Not really.
WoW and most subscription based MMOs (if not all of them) DO require you to purchase expansions and the like.
It is only in F2P games that paying a monthly subscription offers similar benefits.
In anycase, this weekend another beta test is coming. And I've got a spare key if anyone wants.
WoW did not require you to pay extra, above and beyond the initial cost, on it's release. That's why people are angry and I don't blame them a bit.
Guild Wars 2 got away with this on release because it doesn't require a subscription at all, if only because they didn't provide you with enough slots to keep a character of each type. There was still plenty complaining. An MMO with a sub should include all release day races & classes IMO.
I'm sure they're doing it because they fully expect the usual MMO business on release. A huge initial buy-in and people playing for the first few months, then a big drop-off in subscribers and going free-to-play eventually. So they're squeezing your wallets for all they're worth during the initial excitement. Makes sense from an earnings standpoint, but that still doesn't make what is essentially a bunch of separate release day DLC content, on a $60 game with monthly subscription fees, a popular idea.
Quote from: Tpek on February 26, 2014, 10:34:34 AM
Quote from: jejo68 on February 26, 2014, 04:39:51 AM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 25, 2014, 10:14:20 PM
^ That dude is full of NERD RAAAAGE!
It has been pretty standard for CE's and Expansions or DLC to offer pay-to-play races. Not sure the fuss of that.
Normally when you pay subscriptions you get access to all features of the game. Here they in essence tell you to first pay for the game, then pay subscription and on top also pay extra for certain features or in this case a race. Thats just not right
Not really.
WoW and most subscription based MMOs (if not all of them) DO require you to purchase expansions and the like.
It is only in F2P games that paying a monthly subscription offers similar benefits.
In anycase, this weekend another beta test is coming. And I've got a spare key if anyone wants.
Requiring an initial purchase, monthly subscription, and a play-to-play races is a new combination in my experience. It's a rather blatant cash grab. I think that's the kerfuffle. It's like not even having the courtesy to offer a reach around.
Quote from: Nefaro on February 26, 2014, 05:21:56 PM
WoW did not require you to pay extra, above and beyond the initial cost, on it's release. That's why people are angry and I don't blame them a bit.
Actually, they did. The WoW:CE included several exclusive vanity items that could only be gotten with a CE purchase. The subsequent expansion packs all had CE versions that came with exclusive mounts.
F2P also charges a la carte for similar items (races, classes, ships, etc).
I'm not sure why TESO is getting lambasted for offering the Imperial Edition, given that this has been a standard practice (offering vanity items, in this case a "character look" from race, for extra cost) in the MMORPG industry.
Yeah I'm with SoM on this one. I cannot think of an MMO that does offer different packages at initial or expansion purchase. Hell Neverwinter had like a $200 package with exclusive vanity crap.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 26, 2014, 10:39:27 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on February 26, 2014, 05:21:56 PM
WoW did not require you to pay extra, above and beyond the initial cost, on it's release. That's why people are angry and I don't blame them a bit.
Actually, they did. The WoW:CE included several exclusive vanity items that could only be gotten with a CE purchase. The subsequent expansion packs all had CE versions that came with exclusive mounts.
F2P also charges a la carte for similar items (races, classes, ships, etc).
I'm not sure why TESO is getting lambasted for offering the Imperial Edition, given that this has been a standard practice (offering vanity items, in this case a "character look" from race, for extra cost) in the MMORPG industry.
WOW absolutely did not charge extra to unlock
Classes at release. That's what the complaints are about. Nearly everything has some crappy vanity items in an overpriced "Collector's Edition" anymore but that doesn't lock people out of part of the gameplay like closing off whole character classes does.
TESO isn't charging for new "classes" (there aren't really traditional classes in that game), but rather an Imperial "race." Races are basically vanity items, even if they get minor bonuses.
So I'm not exactly sure what you mean by locking out character classes?
Also, F2P regularly lock out character classes for people who don't pay extra $$. Marvel Heroes is a prime example of limited gameplay choices based upon purchasing power.
WoW certainly did charge extra.
They called DLC "Expansion packs" back in the day. :P
New races, new classes, everything.
All TESO charges you extra for is a "race" that consists of somewhat different aesthetics, and a barely noticeable skill adjustments.
Quote from: Tpek on February 27, 2014, 01:30:16 PM
All TESO charges you extra for is a "race" that consists of somewhat different aesthetics, and a barely noticeable skill adjustments.
And therefore is a blantant money grab indeed. Or so it seems anyway.
This is why I like Guild Wars 2, pay once and that's it! Every thing else can be purchased with in game gold (just convert to gems) and no pay to win items. Free Stuff, If you have a Guild Wars 2 account, login today go the trading post and order the free 3 mini collector set. Free stuff and lot's of new content seems to help keep players.
Elder Scrolls Online was not even developed by Bethesada and I wonder does it have the content (not much new here) to keep paying customers more than a few months? The purchase of software (buy-in) is to guaranty cost recovery if the pay to play model fails. There are a lot of other next gen MMO's coming out this year, I'm not sure there's enough in ESO to make it.
Quote from: Tpek on February 27, 2014, 01:30:16 PM
WoW certainly did charge extra.
They called DLC "Expansion packs" back in the day. :P
New races, new classes, everything.
All TESO charges you extra for is a "race" that consists of somewhat different aesthetics, and a barely noticeable skill adjustments.
I'm left wondering if people here follow the MMORPG industry? WoW, as I said, charged extra for the CE and offered minor exclusive aesthetic items. They continued that model, between expansion packs, by having an online store where players could buy pets, mounts, and other aesthetic items with real money. Each of WoW's expansion packs had CE versions that offered similar exclusive aesthetic items.
My point - the model being used by TESO is not new.
Quote from: Yskonyn on February 27, 2014, 02:21:11 PM
And therefore is a blantant money grab indeed. Or so it seems anyway.
Sure it is. But they are running a business and they have found that there is consumer demand for exclusive aesthetic items. I'm not sure the harm here - if people don't want to spend extra for the Imperial race, then they shouldn't buy the CE.
If there is anything people should be irritated about it is the exclusive horse packaged with the CE. That is going to have a marked impact on the game for the haves versus have-nots due to reduced travel time and no need for in-game gold investment in a mount.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 27, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
TESO isn't charging for new "classes" (there aren't really traditional classes in that game), but rather an Imperial "race." Races are basically vanity items, even if they get minor bonuses.
So I'm not exactly sure what you mean by locking out character classes?
Ehhh.. if it's just some mostly cosmetic thing then it's no big deal. I got the impression from someone else that it was a whole character class with it's own play style, having never played the game myself.
Quote
Also, F2P regularly lock out character classes for people who don't pay extra $$. Marvel Heroes is a prime example of limited gameplay choices based upon purchasing power.
This game isn't free-to-play though.
In light of the details, we have more to complain about GW2 since they didn't give you enough slots to have a character of each class. That was fairly standard in past Western MMOs that had classes. But GW2 also doesn't charge monthly fees or a similar "premium" time AFAIK so it was understandable that they have such paid unlocks in lieu of that. If an MMO completely shuts out a class on release day, after charging $60, I think their customers would have a reason to complain. It's the same debate as release day DLC. In this case, it seems to just be some aesthetic "deluxe" edition add-on which isn't anything unusual.
@SoM, Marvel Heroes doesn't lock you out of all those characters. You just need to play enough to unlock them for free.
And in any case. Why should the game give you everything for free straight away? you're not living in a communist world you know :P
Quote from: Nefaro on February 27, 2014, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 27, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
TESO isn't charging for new "classes" (there aren't really traditional classes in that game), but rather an Imperial "race." Races are basically vanity items, even if they get minor bonuses.
So I'm not exactly sure what you mean by locking out character classes?
Ehhh.. if it's just some mostly cosmetic thing then it's no big deal. I got the impression from someone else that it was a whole character class with it's own play style, having never played the game myself.
Quote
That may be my fault, because that's the impression I got -- and I'm pretty sure it's wrong.
I don't think the imperials in TESO are (for example) similar to DDO's drow. I'm not sure how much of the imperial race in TESO is vanity (over other races). I do have a betakey, but never actually managed to play the game.
Fwiw, I'm not particularly offended by a perceived or actual money grab.
Does anyone know what type of DRM the retail boxed version of The Elder Scrolls Online will have?
Every game seems to be going to the F2P model. I remember when I first started to play DDO. That required you to buy the base game and you got all of the classes/races, but you had a monthly fee. You also received the content updates/expansions for free. Then it went F2P and classes, races, bags, banks, everything essentially became a micro-market transaction plus you paid for the expansions. There was also the monthy fee option still that gave you all of the original content plus the bank, character slots and some other stuff, but you still had to buy the expansions, new races and classes. I don't know. It was a good fun time sink and worth the money at the time. Ultimately I guess it comes down to a matter of how much your experience with the game is worth. Hell I know some folk who are throwing down $50 a month on SWTOR to buy random packs with equipment, dyes, xp bonuses. So it's really just the free market at work and that's a good thing.
Quote from: Greybriar on February 27, 2014, 08:43:22 PM
Does anyone know what type of DRM the retail boxed version of The Elder Scrolls Online will have?
TESO doesn't appear to be offered on any non-TESO service, like steam. I can't find anything that says it won't be anything other than standard MMO drm -- a license key and a persistent internet connection to the servers (when playing).
It'll be interesting to see what kind of retail presence it has. I'm sure they'll be a boxed version, but how much are they gonna have to pay the best buys and the walmarts for competing shelf space with the console games, and will those fees would justify what I imagine is an increasingly number of small number of physical media consumers? The 25+ gig download may increase the number of those consumers, but I don't think there are a lot of consumers buying the physical media of computer games any longer.
You're probably right right about the non-TESO service. As for the retail versions, The Elder Scrolls Online official site has links (http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/preorder) to Wal-Mart, BestBuy, and Target in addition to the webshops Amazon.com and GameSpot; however the only places I've found the retail boxed Imperial Edition is at the last two.
Quote from: Greybriar on February 27, 2014, 10:20:51 PM
You're probably right right about the non-TESO service. As for the retail versions, The Elder Scrolls Online official site has links (http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/preorder) to Wal-Mart, BestBuy, and Target in addition to the webshops Amazon.com and GameSpot; however the only places I've found the retail boxed Imperial Edition is at the last two.
Purely a hunch, but if the imperial edition is a collector's edition / a non-standard retail package, I bet it won't be showing up on a lot of retail store shelves.
Regardless, drm for an MMO seems like a non-starter, particularly if it's the ownership issue that so many have. What is the point of owning a client if there isn't a server?
Quote from: Greybriar on February 27, 2014, 10:20:51 PM
You're probably right right about the non-TESO service. As for the retail versions, The Elder Scrolls Online official site has links (http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/preorder) to Wal-Mart, BestBuy, and Target in addition to the webshops Amazon.com and GameSpot; however the only places I've found the retail boxed Imperial Edition is at the last two.
AFAIK, you would be buying a "key" from online retailers like Gamefly or Greenmangaming and then use that key to download and activate the client from TESO's site. It does not seem to be Steam-attached, like Skyrim was, which is nice. I didn't even see Steam offering it for sale.
The retail box will likely just be a key and a shortcut to the Client. Most MMORPs no longer require the DVDs to be in the drive to play and almost all the actual install is done via the internet. There is really no reason to add DRM to an MMORPG, considering the entire game is account-based.
The retail Imperial Edition includes a 12 inch statue of "Molag Bal" in 1:1 scale, or as he is locally known, "Gusington."
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 27, 2014, 11:12:46 PM
....The retail box will likely just be a key and a shortcut to the Client. Most MMORPs no longer require the DVDs to be in the drive to play and almost all the actual install is done via the internet. There is really no reason to add DRM to an MMORPG, considering the entire game is account-based.
Not the retail Imperial Edition (http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/preorder):
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi57.tinypic.com%2F2sbpso4.jpg&hash=8cddf71c35f8169d92dc3ba0e0cdf14e5da546b2)
Played the beta for a few hours yesterday and today. Not sure how it will hold up in the long run, but subscription or not, I think I'm going to take the plunge and get it. Several things like being able to cast spells with a sword and shield, the skills/perks and the UI, I hope make it into TES 6.
Quote from: Greybriar on February 28, 2014, 03:01:02 AM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 27, 2014, 11:12:46 PM
....The retail box will likely just be a key and a shortcut to the Client. Most MMORPs no longer require the DVDs to be in the drive to play and almost all the actual install is done via the internet. There is really no reason to add DRM to an MMORPG, considering the entire game is account-based.
Not the retail Imperial Edition (http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/preorder):
Although the client will likely be on that disc, I still think you are largely buying the code. Right now, you can DL the client from Bethesda's TESO website, but it won't do anything without that code. At least that is how it was with every other MMORPG I have purchased physically.
Quote from: Kushan on March 02, 2014, 06:13:43 PM
Played the beta for a few hours yesterday and today. Not sure how it will hold up in the long run, but subscription or not, I think I'm going to take the plunge and get it. Several things like being able to cast spells with a sword and shield, the skills/perks and the UI, I hope make it into TES 6.
I agree. My first foray into beta left me with a decidedly "meh" feeling. But this second beta weekend I got a lot more fired up and it all seemed to come together a lot more. One thing, the intro vignette is extremely boring and does not make a good first impression. Once you get past that, the game opens up quite a bit.
I grabbed a code from Gamefly.com using their FEB20OFF code to get 20% off (pretty sweet deal). I could have gone with Greenmangaming.com but I just decided not to because I prefer Gamefly's customer service. That code may still be valid, if anyone is interested (and you can use it with multiple orders).
Quote from: son_of_montfort on March 03, 2014, 12:02:39 PM
Although the client will likely be on that disc, I still think you are largely buying the code. Right now, you can DL the client from Bethesda's TESO website, but it won't do anything without that code. At least that is how it was with every other MMORPG I have purchased physically.
I agree. That has been my experience with MMORPGs, too.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on March 03, 2014, 12:02:39 PM
I agree. My first foray into beta left me with a decidedly "meh" feeling. But this second beta weekend I got a lot more fired up and it all seemed to come together a lot more. One thing, the intro vignette is extremely boring and does not make a good first impression. Once you get past that, the game opens up quite a bit.
That starting area has got to be the most boring starting area I've ever seen in an MMO. Thankfully its not very long.
Here's a web site that provides guides to (GW2, SWTOR, ESO) MMO content, I use it for Guild Wars 2 living world content.
Note: The guides are like a walkthrough.
ESO guides
http://dulfy.net/category/eso/
ESO Skyshards guide
http://dulfy.net/2014/02/28/eso-skyshards-guide/#more-77789
Yup use that one for swtor.
I've got 2 spare Beta Keys (which can be used this weekend) if anyone is interested.
Early Access was opened today! :)
Is there a Mac client?
Quote from: Nefaro on October 22, 2012, 04:41:22 PM
I'd be surprised if it wasn't free-to-play as that seems to be the far superior model for MMOs right now.
Says who?
This video looks awesome:
If I could play TESO as well as the guy in the video, I would pre-order the game.
Quote from: Redwolf on March 30, 2014, 11:16:28 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on October 22, 2012, 04:41:22 PM
I'd be surprised if it wasn't free-to-play as that seems to be the far superior model for MMOs right now.
Says who?
From the game publisher's end, that seems to be the case regarding their income for them. Else they all wouldn't be going that route after having been out for awhile.
Step 1) Charge a large amount for initial copy and/or early access.
Step 2) Charge monthly until the huge flock of early adopters see that it's just more of the usual, with a new paint job, and start unsubscribing in droves.
Step 3) Switch to a Free-To-Play model after that point.
Happens like clockwork.
Man, that looks terrible. Am I missing something here? That looked incredibly boring and just lame all around.
The combat looks very similar to Neverwinter's.
decided to give it a miss down to the pricing model mainly and my ex warcraft mates didnt like it (i did).
Quote from: FlickJax on March 31, 2014, 01:54:01 AM
decided to give it a miss down to the pricing model mainly and my ex warcraft mates didnt like it (i did).
Felt the same way. i liked the game just not enough to subscribe tbh
Quote from: Nefaro on March 30, 2014, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: Redwolf on March 30, 2014, 11:16:28 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on October 22, 2012, 04:41:22 PM
I'd be surprised if it wasn't free-to-play as that seems to be the far superior model for MMOs right now.
Says who?
From the game publisher's end, that seems to be the case regarding their income for them. Else they all wouldn't be going that route after having been out for awhile.
Step 1) Charge a large amount for initial copy and/or early access.
Step 2) Charge monthly until the huge flock of early adopters see that it's just more of the usual, with a new paint job, and start unsubscribing in droves.
Step 3) Switch to a Free-To-Play model after that point.
Happens like clockwork.
yes I know that is what they do.
The question is what makes you say it is "far superior"?
Quote from: Nefaro on March 31, 2014, 12:10:28 AM
The combat looks very similar to Neverwinter's.
Very different actually.
Much closer to Skyrim's.
I general, left mouse button = attack.
Hold left mouse button = power attack.
Right mouse button = block.
Both mouse buttons = interrupt/stun attack.
And the 1-0 keys for slotted abilities (class abilities - aka - spells, and skills acquired for certain weapons).
Quote from: Redwolf on March 31, 2014, 09:21:16 AM
yes I know that is what they do.
The question is what makes you say it is "far superior"?
I prefer a monthly fee for access to everything.
I only mentioned the free-to-play system being "far superior" because that is ultimately what nearly all MMOs revert to. I was looking at it from the publisher's profit perspective when I said that, not ours. If they made more money on the monthly charge scheme, they would've stayed with it. It also helps them keep some semblance of server population with the extra free-TPers visiting. One thing that will turn away prospective customers in an MMO is a nearly dead player population.
If I enjoy a specific MMO, I'd prefer to just pay a monthly fee and get everything. Not have to worry about multiple currency systems, getting overloaded with space-sucking buff items, and other bloat that comes with Free-to-play. However there are some advantages to the latter, from a player's perspective, too. There are many FTP games I wouldn't bother playing at all if it was all-or-nothing every month. Now I can come and go as I please without having to worry about spending fifteen bucks and then finding out I wasted it because I didn't actually feel like playing a certain one after all. ;)
QuoteThis video looks awesome:
Really?
To me the game looks unbalanced, the player just kills mob after mob, like a god mode cheat and I see an awful lot of scenery that looks the same. Gameplay looks more like some one playing a Diablo game VS. an Elder Scrolls game. If you tried to kill Dungeon mobs like that in Guild Wars 2, you'd be dead in 2 seconds.
Quote from: Nefaro on March 31, 2014, 02:24:32 PM
Quote from: Redwolf on March 31, 2014, 09:21:16 AM
yes I know that is what they do.
The question is what makes you say it is "far superior"?
I prefer a monthly fee for access to everything.
I only mentioned the free-to-play system being "far superior" because that is ultimately what nearly all MMOs revert to. I was looking at it from the publisher's profit perspective when I said that, not ours. If they made more money on the monthly charge scheme, they would've stayed with it. It also helps them keep some semblance of server population with the extra free-TPers visiting. One thing that will turn away prospective customers in an MMO is a nearly dead player population.
If I enjoy a specific MMO, I'd prefer to just pay a monthly fee and get everything. Not have to worry about multiple currency systems, getting overloaded with space-sucking buff items, and other bloat that comes with Free-to-play. However there are some advantages to the latter, from a player's perspective, too. There are many FTP games I wouldn't bother playing at all if it was all-or-nothing every month. Now I can come and go as I please without having to worry about spending fifteen bucks and then finding out I wasted it because I didn't actually feel like playing a certain one after all. ;)
But you smoothly jumped from "this is what a bunch of games did" to "this actually works".
The way I see it some games tanked with it pretty bad, for example LOTRO which is pretty much dead at this point. They also published very misleading financial claims of the f2p transition.
Sure, we know that a lot of companies see subscription not work and move to some form of free logins and various forms of one-time cash payments. But the specifics about what you have to buy (balancing that versus frustrating players who don't to pay or can't) and what you can buy (balancing that versus the player who think you shouldn't be able to buy actual gameplay advantage) is very, very tricky.
So tricky that I feel it is incorrect to say that "f2p is far superior".
It's all in the details and very easy to screw up. Very easy to alienate major amounts of players who will never come back to this game and even hate the company forever. Very easy to figure that the existing players are hopeless as payers and going after new players. If you have been wrong you are fucked, because you won't get your original group back.
Then there is the service aspects. You sell things for real-world money they need to work.
I actually like the way EVE handles payment. In essence you pay to play but can buy gametime ingame with Money you made there.
So if your good at it or just have alot of free time its basicly free to play.
Ofcourse those Money you spend on buying gametime could be spend on a new shiny ship instead :)
Quote from: SgtRock on March 31, 2014, 04:06:56 PM
QuoteThis video looks awesome:
Really?
To me the game looks unbalanced, the player just kills mob after mob, like a god mode cheat and I see an awful lot of scenery that looks the same. Gameplay looks more like some one playing a Diablo game VS. an Elder Scrolls game. If you tried to kill Dungeon mobs like that in Guild Wars 2, you'd be dead in 2 seconds.
Any time a player can come up with a build as effective as the one in that video and also have the ability to control his/her character well enough to make it a "killing machine," it impresses the hell out of me because *I* can't come close to doing something similar. ;)
But I do have to agree with you: it isn't like the Elder Scrolls games that I used to like to play.
Anyone playing on the North American servers and cares to Guild up? :P
If you want a winning argument for F2P over P2P, it's that so far ESO has had severe downtimes due to server problems.
Yesterday I lost an hour (of my extremely limited free time) of gameplay, and today it's been down for hours now and soon I'll pretty much miss an entire day of "pay extra cash for early access".
At least if they'll offer lifetime subs or not require us to pay for each day of not actually playing it would be nice. :-\
Quote from: Greybriar on March 31, 2014, 11:42:57 PM
Quote from: SgtRock on March 31, 2014, 04:06:56 PM
QuoteThis video looks awesome:
Really?
To me the game looks unbalanced, the player just kills mob after mob, like a god mode cheat and I see an awful lot of scenery that looks the same. Gameplay looks more like some one playing a Diablo game VS. an Elder Scrolls game. If you tried to kill Dungeon mobs like that in Guild Wars 2, you'd be dead in 2 seconds.
Any time a player can come up with a build as effective as the one in that video and also have the ability to control his/her character well enough to make it a "killing machine," it impresses the hell out of me because *I* can't come close to doing something similar. ;)
But I do have to agree with you: it isn't like the Elder Scrolls games that I used to like to play.
That's the point of balance, in Guild Wars 2 there is no Best killing machine, some professions/builds are better at some things than others but, there's no best build!
I have 5 level 80 characters each a different profession and with some of the best gear in the game, yet, die in dungeons. I may get more kills, more loot, last a little longer in but, can still die like everyone else doing world bosses & world events.
Quote from: Tpek on April 02, 2014, 11:19:47 AM
If you want a winning argument for F2P over P2P, it's that so far ESO has had severe downtimes due to server problems.
Yesterday I lost an hour (of my extremely limited free time) of gameplay, and today it's been down for hours now and soon I'll pretty much miss an entire day of "pay extra cash for early access".
At least if they'll offer lifetime subs or not require us to pay for each day of not actually playing it would be nice. :-\
All MMO's go through server/network issues early on, just wait until this weekend when the all the (first time players) join in. ;D
Quote from: SgtRock on April 02, 2014, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: Tpek on April 02, 2014, 11:19:47 AM
If you want a winning argument for F2P over P2P, it's that so far ESO has had severe downtimes due to server problems.
Yesterday I lost an hour (of my extremely limited free time) of gameplay, and today it's been down for hours now and soon I'll pretty much miss an entire day of "pay extra cash for early access".
At least if they'll offer lifetime subs or not require us to pay for each day of not actually playing it would be nice. :-\
All MMO's go through server/network issues early on, just wait until this weekend when the all the (first time players) join in. ;D
It's not only the first week.
Thing is, there's the difference between not playing a day you explicitly paid to play on, and not playing a day you didn't pay for anyway.
That's one of the reasons I like lifetime subs with subscription based ones.
Nevermind
So I'm starting to feel the pull here.....
My big question: How strong is the PVE element? Is PVP a mandatory element of the game, or can you ignore it and go your own way?
PvP is optional. Cyrodiil is the open PvP province as far as I know and you can engage in a form of battlezones for PvP.
But you do not have to do any PvP if you do not want to.
The PvE element is pretty big. I have more to say on this game in the next few days, so watch for my expansive post of impressions! :)
A few things I really find refreshing about the game:
A) first person view with a proper scale of the gameworld
B) dynamic on-the-move combat with gorgeous effects. No more stale hotbar-press-a-key-and-wait-for-death.
c) The world changes around you depending on the outcome of quests. So no more endlessly looking at other people killing the same boss over and over while you just did it too. No, once you have defeated that boss, he is no longer there in your version of the world. Pretty cool!
^They need to give you a commission, Yskonyn! Your description made me salivate 8) Looking forward to more impressions from you, but I suspect my credit card is about to fly from my wallet momentarily.
Well, well, well...
I never would have thought it, but I am playing TESO.
A friend of mine kept on nagging me about how he thought the game would suit my interests. Then I also watched the mag-ni-fi-cent cinematic movies (3 of them) they released and I just could not resist anymore, which is weird, because cinematics have nothing to do with gameplay at all.
Still, if the company can spend their budget on creating such awesome and high quality cinematics, they must be fair and square behind their product me thinks.
Top that off with an interview with the voice actors (Kate Beckinsale, John Cleese to name a few) and my opinion started to shift;
I always regarded TESO to be one of the countless attempts to forge an MMO out of a well known franchise with the same old same old.
My friend kept on telling me that it plays differently than the standard MMO fare, so after the above I caved.
Let's start in somewhat chronological order;
Character creation is pretty extensive. You can choose to join 1 of 3 different factions (The big PvP mechanic is between these factions and while the war between these is forced upon the player by the story you do not have to engage in PvP if you don't want to) , which are normally bound by race in the Lore, however I think you can choose any faction for any race.
Then you can choose from 10 different races (9 if you don't have the Imperials), giving you slight advantages for certain builds over others, but aparently this is only really relevant for min/maxers, as you can mix and match anything you like and still have a viable build.
Then you can choose one of 4 classes.
These classes however, form just a baseline. Character progression in the game is very open ended, mening you can unlock almost any stilltree with a character.
Almost, as some are Unique to starting class. Because each class has their own skilltree. I don't think you can unlock other class trees on a single character, but I might be wrong.
So it is wise to have a general direction in mind you want to take your character build in and go from there.
Apart from the class skilltree you have other skilltrees based on your guild (the game one, not the social one), your weapons and the world.
Skills are unlocked by spending skillpoints which you get by levelling up. Using a certain skilltree (by using a skill from that tree actively ) causes a bar to fill. Once its full you get another point to spend. The advancement is cumulative, mening that if you get a new point you can spend it in any tree as long as you pass the requirements to upgrade. (Certain skills require a certain level to be unlocked for example)
Once you develop your skills you will get the option to Morph skills. You spend one skillpoint and rather than buying a new skill you can alter the existing skill. Effects can be varied; from more damage to new secondary effects.
This branching of skills quickly present you with so many ways to build a character that it becomes quite hard to choose! The best thing is that the systeem guides you into branching out, gradually presenting you with more and more options as you level up.
Back to character creation;
The actual appearance options are pretty expansive too, but the devs have made sure you cannot float away from the special looks each race has in the game world; all skintones are restricted to Lore specific tones for the race, as is hair colour, etc.
But within the confines of creating a character from a certain race you have pretty great amount of options and sliders to make sure your character doesn't look too much like 20 others.
After creating your character for the first time you start in the tutorial area (can be skipped on other characters), which starts you off as a prisoner, totally keeping with the Elder Scrolls tradition of starting. :)
I've seen articles mentioning that the tutorial area is beautiful while the next zone is not at all, but I do not agree. I find the graphics pretty consistently atmospheric and nice.
The character models are of higher quality than the world it seems, but the world does have a beautiful atmospheric style IMO.
Lighting is very nicely done and if your PC can handle it you can up the view distance pretty far.
Textures are not as sharp as modern games can have them these days, but I suspect that might be a performance trade off for the MMO structure. Especially with the stress the servers are taking with the clever instancing system, I can imagine.
Overall I find the game to be rather pretty.
Another things people seem to complain about are the items you find all around; in the single player games you can take almost any object, but in TESO you can often only loot them, where the object functions as a container more than the actual object itself.
I find this to be rather clever cause it does add to the feeling that there are lots of objects in the world, but the servers don't have to stress about it.
Of course lots of objects are just static, where in the SP games they were not, but I think its unfair to expect this to be different in an MMO game.
I still remember the first FarCry game where the physics where pretty innovative, but in MP those physics were disabled due to technical reasons.
Still, there are lots of nice details in the world;
People walking around villages, having conversations about all kinds of things. Fishermen tending their nets at the docks. Taverns brimming with customers and a Bard playing a few songs. Its all very nicely done and really given you a feeling that this is an actual world.
Anyway, I have spent about 8 or 10 hours with the game now and I find it a breath of fresh air for three distinct reasons:
1) No more quest hubs and endless 'Kill 10 boars' quests.
The quests are of a decent variety and you always get the impression you are actually doing something relevant for either the world or the NPC. It created a feeling of importance and 'being there', rather than just a means to get experience.
2) The world changes after completing a quest. So no more looking at endless named enemies or bossfights by other player while you just defeated it yourself.
Once you have killed the boss, he is gone in your version of the world.
Did you just complete a quest where you saved a settlement from invasion? Then now there are no more raids by enemies and the inhabitants of the village show a state of rebuilding / recuperating. Very cool!
The phasing or instancing in the game is pretty clever, because while running a quest you see other players battling around you, but once the quest is over you only see players who have also finished the quest (or something to that effect).
Point being, that the game has a clever way to keep you immersed in the world, but still present you with all those other players to give it the MMO feel.
3) No more 'I press a hotbar key and wait for the mob to die'-combat.
There still is a hotbar to fire off skills, but the combat is dynamic. Just like in Skyrim and the earlier TES games, you aim with a crosshair.
Left mouse button uses your weapon, right mouse button blocks, then the hotbar is used to use abilities and skills. Usually these can be used while moving.
Mobs have a decent amount of different moves and usually have a 'tell' when they are about to fire off a certain high power attack. You can try to block and interrupt that, or you can dodge out of the area of effect.
It makes combat fun and engaging IMO.
One thing that is awkward at times is the lag. Because its an MMO you sometimes see some rubberbanding or warped animations, which break the flow of combat a little.
Nothing big, but it does detract from the overal fluidness of combat at times.
Another thing that makes the game feel differently is that the First Person mode is perfectly great to use. In a lot of MMO's once you zoom into your character for a First person view, the world often seems out of scale and combat is nearly impossible.
In TESO, however, you have a first person view just like in the SP games. You see your weapon and the scale looks right.
Another things to up the immersiveness.
You can zoom in and out of 1st person and 3rd person view, but I want to note that I only find it comfortable to play with either fully zoomed out or fully zoomed in 1st person.
In 3rd person you still need the crosshair to aim so the camera starts with an awkward over the shoulder view. I find it hard to navigate my character this way. But zoomed out given you a more traditional MMO viewpoint with the character in the middle of the screen.
I prefer 1st person view though. YMMV.
Crafting is also in game, but I haven't spend enough time yet to say anything sensible about it. It does seem to be a good cornerstone of the economy though, and many people find it a fun system too. Just look around the net for more info on that if you're interested.
A quick closure mention about housing in case you wonder; Guild housing is already in the game (no idea how much you can decorate), but Personal housing is not (yet?).
I hope these impressions are of some use. ;)
See you in Tamriel (look me up under @Yskonyn)!
^Are you playing on the NA or EU server?
Care to "Guild Up"? :P
I am playing on the EU server.
Sure! You can join up to 5 guilds, so a Grogheads one should be no problem! What's your account name?
Quote from: Yskonyn on April 07, 2014, 04:39:21 AM
I am playing on the EU server.
Sure! You can join up to 5 guilds, so a Grogheads one should be no problem! What's your account name?
Tpek (if I remember right :P).
Thing is, I'm on the NA servers.
Btw, do you know how to find level 10 recipes for provisioning? my inventory is filled to the brim with such materials but I'm still stuck with level 5 recipes.
What's the monthly sub fee? Is the Imperial edition really worth $20 more?
Monthly sub is standard fare; 15 bucks for one month dropping to 10 per month if you pay for 6 months in advance.
The Imperial Edition gives you the Imperial race (and some nice in game items) which enables you to join every faction, whereas all the other races are faction locked unless you pre-ordered and have the Explorer's pack. Then you can join any faction with any race.
But as the pre-order option is expired, you're either locked to a faction depending on the race you choose, or you go for the Imperial edition and play an Imperial character who can join any faction.
The Imperial edition also grants you a mount for only 1 gold at the start of the game (which is rather slow compared to the other mounts, but still).
Great info, Y. I'm going to sign up later today. Playing Skyrim, I used to wish other MMO's looked so good. I'm glad to know TESO didn't blow it ;D
Quote from: Yskonyn on April 07, 2014, 07:29:31 AM
Monthly sub is standard fare; 15 bucks for one month dropping to 10 per month if you pay for 6 months in advance.
The Imperial Edition gives you the Imperial race (and some nice in game items) which enables you to join every faction, whereas all the other races are faction locked unless you pre-ordered and have the Explorer's pack. Then you can join any faction with any race.
But as the pre-order option is expired, you're either locked to a faction depending on the race you choose, or you go for the Imperial edition and play an Imperial character who can join any faction.
The Imperial edition also grants you a mount for only 1 gold at the start of the game (which is rather slow compared to the other mounts, but still).
The Imperial Race of course has its own skill line and also can craft equipment with the Imperial Style.
It can also convert any equipment to the Imperial Style look.
Plus you get to purchase a nice white Imperial horse for only 1 gold from the stables, instead of the usually higher fee.
Ugh. I really hate all these downtimes.
Especially when you pay per-day (regardless of whether you got to play or not).
Anyone with the Imperial version, regardless of the race they choose, can transition items to Imperial style for free. In fact, my Khajit Kitty Nightblade looks awesome in a Roman-looking helm!
BTW, anyone form a guild. I've been lax about actually signing up for any and I dislike the decision to make the auction houses be guild specific, rather than general.
I'd be happy to guild up with any of you guys.
EDIT: Mind you my user ID is obviously Tpek
Will you guys still be playing in two months?
I'm wondering how much has been the new car smell hype and how much longevity it may have. Either way, I don't think I'll check it out until the constant post-release down times and issues are ironed out. Maybe not even until it goes free-to-play eventually.
My biggest concern would be whether the gfx engine will give me motion sickness. Skyrim did that to me a bit. A few of them do so any new one is suspect. :-\
I wil definately be playing in 2 months!
But that is because I am not worried about end game at all; the questing experience is top notch and very engaging!
I am taking the time to read and listen to what NPC's have to say and the books have to tell.
Since early access my highest level char is only 9, the other active one is 7.
Yet I have clocked over 20 hours in the game already.
Even if end game doesn't fit my style in the end, I will have had more than my money's worth out of the game once I get there.
The downtimes are mostly on the NA server. We EU bastards have been pretty lucky so far.
I could really use your help with the Spindleclutch dungeon.
I'm getting owned by the swarms of spiders there :(
Calling all heroes in Glenumbra... calling all heroes in Glenumbra...
I require assistance! :(
If only you were on the EU server