Anyone up for invading Moscow?
John Tiller just released his 21st title in the very popular Panzer Campaigns series titled Moscow '42. Just on the heals of Halloween, JTS added in an extra "treat" for all of us. Moscow '42 is actually two games in one. Following on from the German Operation Typhoon portrayed in Moscow '41, Moscow '42 includes the historical Soviet 1941/42 winter counter offensive that almost destroyed Heeresgruppe Mitte in front of Moscow. It also includes the hypothetical Fall Kreml (Operation Kremlin).
Below are several screen shots showing off what Moscow '42 has to offer.
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Moscow '42 is available directly from the JTS website in Digital Download format and can be found here: http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerCampaigns/Moscow42.html (http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerCampaigns/Moscow42.html)
Press Release – Panzer Campaigns: Moscow '42 – November 2, 2012
The last great push of Operation Barbarossa began on Nov 15th, 1941 when Heeresgruppe Mitte tried to bring Operation Typhoon to a successful conclusion with the capture of Moscow. Two weeks after it was launched, it was obvious that the German forces were spent and little more could be achieved. On December 5th, 1941 aided by plummeting temperatures the Soviets launched what were first limited attacks, but quickly grew into front wide offensives that would last for close to three months. By the end of the Soviet offensives, Moscow was saved, but at what cost?
Moscow '42 is two games in one. Following on from the German Operation Typhoon portrayed in Moscow '41, Moscow '42 includes the historical Soviet 1941/42 winter counter offensive that almost destroyed Heeresgruppe Mitte in front of Moscow.
In addition the hypothetical Fall Kreml (Operation Kremlin in English) is included. Operation Kremlin was an extensive deception campaign that the Axis enacted to distract from Fall Blau (Operation Blue) the German 1942 summer offensive in the Ukraine and Caucasus. What if Fall Kreml was real? What if the Axis attempted to capture Moscow again using the historical forces available in the summer of 1942? A range of campaigns & scenarios are included to allow players to investigate this historical possibility.
Campaigns & Scenarios - Panzer Campaigns: Moscow '42 covers the three major Soviet winter offensives during the period from December 1941 through mid-February 1942:
• The initial Soviet attacks - the battle for the flanks - Dec6th, 1941 to Jan5th, 1942.
• The expansion of the Soviet offensive - all along the line - Jan6th, 1942 to Feb5th, 1942.
• The critical nexus – the tipping point – Jan 22nd, 1942 to Feb15th, 1942.
• The Moscow '42 Grand Campaign - Dec6th, 1941to Feb15th, 1942.
In addition, the hypothetical Axis second attempt to capture Moscow (Fall Kreml) in June 1942 is included in four variant campaigns:
• Fall Kreml North – Jun 28th to Jul 20th, 1942.
• Fall Kreml North – Max Effort – Jun 28th to Jul 20th, 1942.
• Fall Kreml Center – Jun 28th to Jul 20th, 1942.
• Fall Kreml South – Jun 28th to Jul 20th, 1942.
There are 57 scenarios in total including the above mentioned campaigns
Campaigns range in size from 77 turns up to 576 turns for the Moscow '42 Grand Campaign. Scenarios ranging in length from 8 to 88 turns, averaging 24 turns, will provide players with plenty of challenges and battles of variable length and size in both the snow of winter and the dust of summer.
Features - Game features include:
• Game scale is 1 hex = 1 km, 1 turn = 2 hours, with battalion and company size units.
• 57 Scenarios – covering all sizes and situations, including specialized versions for both head to head play and vs. the computer AI.
• The Master Map covers 244,620 hexes expanding well to the east, west and south of the area covered by the previous Panzer Campaigns: Moscow '41. This is one of the biggest Panzer Campaign maps ever released.
• A winter Order of Battle with over 7,700 units from four Soviet Fronts and a German Army Group including units from German, SS-German, and Vichy French formations as well as Siberians, Guards and regular Russian Army units.
• A summer Order of Battle with over 9,000 units from four Soviet Fronts and two German Army Groups including units from German, SS-German, and Hungarian formations as well as Guards and regular Russian Army units.
• Order-of-Battle and Scenario Editors which allow players to customize the game.
• Sub-map feature allows the main map to be "chopped" up into smaller segments for custom scenario creation.
• All new images for unit art on both sides, including guns and vehicles.
• Exceptional Designer notes with historical write-ups for both the winter and summer campaigns.
Moscow '42 provides multiple play options including play against the computer AI, Play by E-mail (PBEM), LAN & Internet "live" play, and two player hotseat.
Changes
Changes in the Panzer Campaign series new for Moscow '42:
• Modified frozen penalty rules.
System Requirements
Windows XP, Vista, or 7
Processor: 1 GHz
Disk Space: 1 GB
Memory: 1 GB
Panzer Campaigns: Moscow '42 may be purchased from - http://www.johntillersoftware.com/
Quote from: Bismarck on November 02, 2012, 11:09:59 AM
Press Release – Panzer Campaigns: Moscow '42 – November 2, 2012
Looks very interesting. The big Russian offensive in early 1942 has always seemed under-represented in the realm of games.
All the work on "Fall Kremlin" (Fall Blau 0? -1 Fall Grosse Kaput?) seems odd. I mean what's the historical premise? Germany decides the
allies have won WWII and they are eager to see who comes in second? After all, if all the rebuilding in early 1942 went to Army Group Center then Stalin would have guessed right and the attack at Kharkov in May would have started Army Group South on a quick downward slide. It would have been something like the aftermath of Kursk but in 1942.
It has always struck me as odd that not only do most East Front games focus on whenever the Axis are doing okay, but even to the extent of hypothetical instances of doing Okay that would not have worked at all.
Briefly put, the Fall Kreml operation was just a ruse to get the Soviets into thinking that the main push in the summer of 42 was going to be another operation with Moscow as it's main objective. However, the Germans actually were planning a drive in the South towards the Caucauses. Stalin fell for the ruse. The scenario in the game explores what might have happened had the Germans actually followed through with original Fall Kreml plan.
Quote from: Al on November 02, 2012, 02:46:27 PM
Briefly put, the Fall Kreml operation was just a ruse to get the Soviets into thinking that the main push in the summer of 42 was going to be another operation with Moscow as it's main objective. However, the Germans actually were planning a drive in the South towards the Caucauses. Stalin fell for the ruse. The scenario in the game explores what might have happened had the Germans actually followed through with original Fall Kreml plan.
Right but if the ruse Stalin fell for was the actual plan, then Stalin was right and hitting Army Group south in May would have started the German front collapsing as the aftermath of Kursk did in 1943. So unless the German aim is to see if they can lose the war in record time, Fall Kreml would be a non-starter.
If you're interested here's a link to a Q&A with the designer of this particular game. There's also a tab that will let you read the designer's notes.
http://hist-sdc.com/spotlights/pzc_m42.php
Will answer questions a lot better than my feeble attempts.
Quote from: MengJiao on November 02, 2012, 02:54:32 PM
Quote from: Al on November 02, 2012, 02:46:27 PM
Briefly put, the Fall Kreml operation was just a ruse to get the Soviets into thinking that the main push in the summer of 42 was going to be another operation with Moscow as it's main objective. However, the Germans actually were planning a drive in the South towards the Caucauses. Stalin fell for the ruse. The scenario in the game explores what might have happened had the Germans actually followed through with original Fall Kreml plan.
Right but if the ruse Stalin fell for was the actual plan, then Stalin was right and hitting Army Group south in May would have started the German front collapsing as the aftermath of Kursk did in 1943. So unless the German aim is to see if they can lose the war in record time, Fall Kreml would be a non-starter.
Hi MengJiao,
I am the designer for Moscow '42 and though it worthwhile replying to your thoughtful post.
Al quite rightly pointed out the designer notes that are available to have a look at.
That said, I thought it worthwhile to give you some view of the premises used. For Fall Kreml, two key assumptions were made. Heeresgruppe Mitte (Army Group Center) had its strength replenished in Spring '42 and Heeresgruppe von Weichs (northern arm of Army Group South) turned north east towards Moscow rather than driving east to Voronezh (and then subsequently south east). The replacements in Army Group Center DO reflect the losses over the winter. Many of the German Infantry Division having two and even one battalion regiments and all the Panzer Divisions have lost a Panzer Battalion (or more) as historically was done, the remaining units available are nowjust considered full strength.
Also picking up on your point of the 2nd battle of Kharkov dooming Army Group South, I disagree. Von Paulus fought the Russians to a standstill with his existing forces. He was expressly forbidden to use any of the forces that were earmarked for Fall Blau and they were only used at the end of that campaign when it was evident an operational victory was in the offering. To be honest the forces available to the Soviets in this battle though numerous, were very green and coupling this with the fall of Sevastapol and the ejection of the Soviets from the eastern end of the Crimea a big loss to Stalins offensive potential in the South.
In Moscow '42 none of the forces used at Kharkov or earmarked for Fall Blau (from Kursk down)were used for the push on Moscow. Please note, Army Group South would have been weaker in the Moscow '42 world, but not to a point of fatal weakeness.
Also to be noted is that the Soviet forces that historically faced von Weichs are included in Fall Kreml so that is reflected as well.
Welcome to the world of hypothetical, now that said we tried very hard to build this from a plausable real world perspective...
happy to answer any further questions!!
David
Interesting stuff Strela and welcome to grogheads.
Welcome to GrogHeads, Strela! Thanks for the feedback.
Thanks for the welcome gentlemen.
Will keep an eye on this thread for any further questions!
Just a suggestion:
I think think it would be easier to distinguish between both sides' units and the mines/fortifications if the latter had a black background as opposed to grey ones. It just doesn't make each opposing side's colors stand out much from the rest of the clutter, IMO.
In hex & counter games, especially ones with as many counters as this, it helps to be able to easily distinguish where each sides forces are, especially in relation to the others. The screenshots above, along the mined front, just looks like a pain to differentiate without having to focus on small areas and that hurts the 'Big Picture' part of the strategy.
Well... either that or just having brighter background colors for both sides's counters, perhaps.
Quote from: Strela on November 02, 2012, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on November 02, 2012, 02:54:32 PM
Quote from: Al on November 02, 2012, 02:46:27 PM
Briefly put, the Fall Kreml operation was just a ruse to get the Soviets into thinking that the main push in the summer of 42 was going to be another operation with Moscow as it's main objective. However, the Germans actually were planning a drive in the South towards the Caucauses. Stalin fell for the ruse. The scenario in the game explores what might have happened had the Germans actually followed through with original Fall Kreml plan.
Right but if the ruse Stalin fell for was the actual plan, then Stalin was right and hitting Army Group south in May would have started the German front collapsing as the aftermath of Kursk did in 1943. So unless the German aim is to see if they can lose the war in record time, Fall Kreml would be a non-starter.
Hi MengJiao,
I am the designer for Moscow '42 and though it worthwhile replying to your thoughtful post.
Well, I bought the game and it is a fine one. The First Shock Army looks great (for example). A lot of good work went into this game and the premises of the Fall Kreml scenarios are interesting and worthwhile.
I've played most of the Panzer Campaign games and this one looks like one of the better ones (my other favorite being Tobruk 41).
I just bought Moscow '42 and have so far really enjoyed it. This maybe my favorite PzC title so far, though that is not saying a whole lot (I only own Tunisia '43 and the Mius '43 Demo...along with F14 and some ME'67). The mix of units, terrain and varied scenarios work well. I am not a big fan of the AI but had a lot of fun playing the "Efremov - Hungarians First Blood" scenario...bodes well for future PBEM games. Nice job JTS.
Quote from: gabeeg on November 05, 2012, 02:37:11 PM
I just bought Moscow '42 and have so far really enjoyed it. This maybe my favorite PzC title so far, though that is not saying a whole lot (I only own Tunisia '43 and the Mius '43 Demo...along with F14 and some ME'67). The mix of units, terrain and varied scenarios work well. I am not a big fan of the AI but had a lot of fun playing the "Efremov - Hungarians First Blood" scenario...bodes well for future PBEM games. Nice job JTS.
I know the guy who play-tested that particular scenario. He plans to post an AAR over at theblitz.org. That scenario caught my eye right away, too.
The AAR is up there now.
http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=70
No login required to view. Scroll down a bit & it's the first one on the list.
Nice AAR, thanks for the link.
Although I'm interested in the Soviet winter offensive, I am reluctant to jump in and buy this game because of the scale.
I don't mean that in a negative way, I am wondering what the design decision was behind making the hexes 1 km and each turn just 2 hours. For comparison: that would mean that, in terms of turns, a game of PzC:Moscow '42 is over twice as long as a complete WitE game and covers most of a WitP:AE game with 2 days/turn setting. Yet the full campaign covers around 3 months worth of fighting.
I don't mind large numbers of units, but whenever I look at a game like this I wonder: what is the benefit of splitting up battalions into companies? Would the game be worse with a battalion scale and 2-3 turns per day, instead of company scale and 12 turns per day (or 8-10)?
My main problem with smaller scales is that it tends to make encirclements and deep penetrations, in a historical manner, difficult to impossible, because the defender has plenty of time to pull forces back. Attacks become slow and methodical even though you want them to be quick, blitzkrieg affairs. Note that I have no direct experience with the PzC series, I'm just commenting on my experience with other games with a small time per turn/unit size scale. In all cases, smaller scale games were less fluid than larger scale ones.
The average AI also benefits from fewer turns, as it makes it easier for it to plan. Has the full campaign been tested against the AI?
You could argue that the game is designed for PBEM, but in that case there's still those 576 turns and as we all know, a wide variety of things can happen that can cause your opponent to stop playing or lose interest. Imagine being at turn 300 or so, and then your opponent decides to quit.
If the (offensive/Soviet) AI is at least somewhat competent and can keep the campaign interesting for 576 turns, I'll buy it.
Quote from: ComradeP on November 06, 2012, 11:21:54 AM
Although I'm interested in the Soviet winter offensive, I am reluctant to jump in and buy this game because of the scale.
I don't mean that in a negative way, I am wondering what the design decision was behind making the hexes 1 km and each turn just 2 hours. For comparison: that would mean that, in terms of turns, a game of PzC:Moscow '42 is over twice as long as a complete WitE game and covers most of a WitP:AE game with 2 days/turn setting. Yet the full campaign covers around 3 months worth of fighting.
I don't mind large numbers of units, but whenever I look at a game like this I wonder: what is the benefit of splitting up battalions into companies? Would the game be worse with a battalion scale and 2-3 turns per day, instead of company scale and 12 turns per day?
Actually, while you are right about the problems of playing the whole campaign, the scale seems perfect for dealing with such things as the first offensive of the First Shock Army. You can work out other ways of representing SMG, ATR, ski and sapper companies, but the diffuse nature of this primitive Soviet offensive is well-represented by the system.
If I were designing an East Front game from the ground up, I would take something like a computerized version of the Grand tactical system (500 meters a hex, companies, two hour turns, lots of explicit command and communication simulation) and use it to simulate Soviet army-level command (or German Corps-level command) including problems with higher and lower commands. The player would give orders by various means: directly if say he was at a division CP, by radio, in an planning meeting days earlier etc. He would also receive orders that might be bad ideas and have to figure out how to avoid or delay carrying them out. He might also have many kinds of incompetence and obstruction to deal with. He would also not have a single master game map, but instead, whatever intelligence and maps he can work with in the context of being on the spot. He might have to go verify the positions of his formations and neighboring formations himself, for example. He might not have a high opinion of his staff's assessment of situations as shown on the situation map at his army HQ.
He might order a trusted officer to undertake some specific reconaissance etc.
But that's just me. At the moment I'm perfectly happy with the First Shock Army as is.
QuoteIf the (offensive/Soviet) AI is at least somewhat competent and can keep the campaign interesting for 576 turns, I'll buy it.
I've played the PzC series quite a bit and the AI is "somewhat competent" but not for a 576 turn scenario. I know there are some scenarios within Moscow42 (and others in the series) that are specifically designed for play against AI and the scenario notes will tell you so. These tend to be the 30 turn or less, medium to small map size scenarios.
Also, I agree it would hard to find a human opponent that would hang in through all 576 turns. I've played 180 turn games and it's a chore sometimes to keep both sides going.
No real comment about the scale - it is what it is - but I've found it is hard to achieve big sweeping breakthoughs at this scale. I think maybe brigade/division scale games would be more siuted to that - but that's just my own opinion.
I would suggest that if you do play a scenario with a lot of turns, you make sure you are playing against a reliable opponent, not someone who you are playing for the 1st time. Another option would be to play the large scenario as team games. It will provide you with alot of extra enjoyment due to all of the extra communication and joint planning that is involved with your team mates.