http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1325766284/up-front-the-card-game
It's up on Kickstarter!
Launched a mere 4 days ago and already funded well past it's publication total.
You wouldn't believe how many people are funding at the $200+ level, either.
The publication company needs to answer questions about the rumors of an impending lawsuit (not related to Up Front) and whether kickstarter funds would be used to pay any judgements against them. There's a large discussion about all of this on the geek as well as CSW.
On the BGG marketplace UpFront sells for as much as $235 USD for a single used copy, without any expansions.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekstore.php3?action=listforsale&gameid=586 (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekstore.php3?action=listforsale&gameid=586)
Buying into the $200 pledge level for the new edition gets you the base game, plus 5 expansions. Each expansion includes a complete action card deck (168 cards each). So buyers at this level get quite a bit for their $$$ IMO.
I'm still enjoying the 2nd edition copy I bought back in `86, so not feeling inclined to jump on the kickstart bandwagon.
I'm not a huge fan of the kickstarter concept. There just seems to be too much room for monkey business.
There was an UP copy of Up Front advertised on CSW Marketplace for $70 the other day so prices are dropping - I assume in anticipation of the new release that may or may not come out.
I haven't followed the lawsuit against Valley Games other than from what I gather, some designer that they hired wasn't paid for labor performed. What's interesting is on the kickstarter page, it refers to a "Radiant Gaming Company" as the publisher and not Valley Games. The link to the website lands at a parked hosting page for GoDaddy. The registrant for that domain is a "Tolbern Sherwood" of Alberta Canada. I'd personally do some more digging beyond that before I pledged money (is that an instant pay type of pledge or that money is only deducted if and when the project is funded? Produced? Not sure how kickstarter works - another thing I'd personally look into first).
FWIW, me and my son very much enjoy Up Front - not sure if I'd spring for a new edition. I'd rather wait and see it produced and get some feedback on it first. If any rules were tweaked or adjusted I wouldn't even consider it.
Quote from: GJK on November 20, 2012, 10:39:18 PMIf any rules were tweaked or adjusted I wouldn't even consider it.
Some of the changes that I've read about include:
- a revised range system
- doing away with most of the game chits
I also recall hearing that the developer is based in Canada
Some remarks today from the developer regarding changes:
"Rules virtually unchanged except for the fact that we are adopting Andrew Maly's V3.0 format.
Weapons are now cards separate from the personalities so that DYO are now virtually limitless.
Relative Range is gone and instead we have Distance markers which are used to calculate Range. Long range now = 5 and close range = 0.
Rik"
Well... I just pledged $90 to this Kickstarter project. For that I'll be getting the base set plus Britian and the Soviets plus all the bonus level stuff.
Never had or played the original and have never pledged to a KS project before.... Should be interesting when it finally shows up.
I'm really on the fence about supporting the KS project - only because I have the original game plus Banzai already. I used a heavy lamination on my personality cards and my counters have carefully rounded corners using the Oregon corner rounding tool. I spend a *lot* of time making this into a very nice playing set (action deck is in card sleeves as well). I'm not sure that I want to go through all of that for the same game that has different graphics (essentially). BUT - the game is THAT GOOD. It is unlike any other tabletop wargame with the FOW aspect. You literally don't know what is on the other side of the hill or beyond the buildings that are in front of you. You can be getting your ASSSSSSSSSS handed to you and then with some good draws and card play, your opponents lead group is stuck in marsh and you're on a hill with a fixed MG34 looking down upon them. I do like that Relative Range is changed to Distance Markers; RR now is bass-ackwards and that was confusing at first. Oh hell, I'll probably KS'er the thing damnit!
With all of those bonus packs, I couldn't resist- I'm in for $100.
Quote from: GJK on December 28, 2012, 01:59:17 PM
I'm really on the fence about supporting the KS project - only because I have the original game plus Banzai already. I used a heavy lamination on my personality cards and my counters have carefully rounded corners using the Oregon corner rounding tool.
I also own a great copy of the original game plus complete Banzai expansion (minus box) and the North Africa expansion.
I put all of the cards in individual protective card sleeves. I like the lamination approach. Definitely seals the deal. Maybe I'll eventually have all of my cards laminated...someday.
For now, I'm going to wait to read feedback about the new re-print.
Groggy
Well what convinced me to get onto the KS bandwagon was all of the stretch rewards that have been reached. Being new to KS, I didn't know what these were. When I first looked at the project, I only saw that I could spend $40 or so and get the US, Germans and one other nationalty plus some cloth patch thingie. Big whoop, I have the original game so I'll pass. Now that I investigated it more, I see that since it has reached a certain level of funding, all those that pledged receive all of these extra "stretch rewards".
See this thread for a list of all the stretch rewards and where it's at now (the red font items are in line next, current funding of the project is $227,273)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/10605392#10605392
So who got in on this project? Who didn't but now wishes that they had?
Put me in the latter.
Sadly, stuck in that "no money" limbo where you just started a new job but the money's not coming in yet
I'm in fer the base set plus two others... Gonna choose Brits and Soviets. Plus all the other goodies..!
I rode the fence on this and never ended up getting on on it. I am sure I will regret that decision.
Quote from: Barthheart on January 02, 2013, 04:37:41 PM
I'm in fer the base set plus two others... Gonna choose Brits and Soviets. Plus all the other goodies..!
Yeah - it was "all the other goodies" that sold me. My $100 investment will (hopefully) yield about $450 in game (or so I was reading on the Geek). That was before the Tote-bag made the goodies list so maybe a little bit more even.
My son and I set up an Up Front game over the weekend since we hadn't played in a few months. Such a fun game that takes maybe an hour to play. Can't wait to get this new version but I'm thinking it'll be later than the estimated June '13 release date.
Ah crap, I wish I had paid attention to this thread sooner.
I decided to stay pat with my version 2 copy. I use a custom action deck which I enjoy very much, so wasn't worth the extra $$$ to upgrade for me.
I'm a complete sap for this sort of thing.
In at the level that lets me name a Polish PFC for my father...
Haven't been this excited about an upcoming release in a while.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
^ hey! A Cyrano sighting!
Stick around a little longer stranger :)
@Bbrant: I'm still mad at you guys for pulling out of the War College...completely wrecked my June ;D.
Any chance you'll be back?
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Don't get mad at us - get mad at Origins for moving the damn show last year!
Yes, we're coming back. I'm trying to schedule a call with John Ward in the next week or so to sort out the what & how of our involvement.
Quote from: TheCommandTent on January 02, 2013, 05:06:26 PM
I rode the fence on this and never ended up getting on on it. I am sure I will regret that decision.
Are you Kick(start)ing yourself? ;D
I, of course, kid...I remember the conversations the year all the mess went down and thinking what a real shame it was. Told the Origins folks on the feeback in no uncertain terms, too.
Good news and very best getting it fired up again.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Did you guys see all this lawsuit stuff going down with Valley Games and a creditor?
Quote from: ABD on March 07, 2013, 09:16:22 PM
Did you guys see all this lawsuit stuff going down with Valley Games and a creditor?
I missed it. Got a link handy?
It was at 2 pages yesterday and has already swelled to 12 pages. I only went through the first 2 but it's not looking good for those of us that kicked in money to the project:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/941553/what-does-this-mean-for-up-front
Quote from: LongBlade on March 07, 2013, 10:11:48 PM
I missed it. Got a link handy?
OK, I'll attempt a simple thumbnail sketch from reading the thread in GJK's link.
Some of the details are possibly inaccurate and they may not all be directly connected anyway. It's all legal fight now between lawyers so words get twisted.
Valley Games needed money...Phil Sauer, among others, lent them a large sum (100k's)...
Valley Games starts development of UpFront...Sauer comes collecting on debt...Valley Games doesn't pay...Sauer and others (Reiner Knizia) sue...
Valley Games creates Radiant Games, shifts assets (Up Front) to Radiant Games...Sauer alleges Radiant Games assets are really Valley Games assets and demands they be included in the compensation.
On the first page of the BGG thread someone posted court documents, the third and fourth document name some of the following games among many others:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/941553/what-does-this-mean-for-up-front/page/1
D-Day Dice
Titan
Die Macher
Republic of Rome
Hannibal: Rome vs Carthage
Container
Airborne in your pocket
Up Front
What a mess.
Yeah, this has been ongoing for months now. And it's been odd the whole time. I don't understand why in the world Phil Sauer decided to take this to the court of public opinion...okay, I DO get why, but I'd be willing to bet anything his lawyers didn't know he was doing so. Seems unlikely they'd be on board with him sharing information to the degree that he has previously.
Beyond that, Up Front MIGHT turn out to be declared a property of Radiant Games since it was under that roof from the very beginning of fundraising.
The Reiner Knizia issue was completely separate and had something to do with copies still being sold of games that Valley might not have still had distribution rights for. That seems to have completely vanished though, so maybe their pulling the product put an end to it?
Oh man... 60+ pages at BGG about this.... people continue to surprise me in what they can "infere" from posts, non-posts, hints and innuendo... :P
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F400x%2F36390312.jpg&hash=0733c92ba2be59d0039560b63c67744c2df51b8c)
Quote from: Barthheart on March 19, 2013, 02:07:30 PMOh man... 60+ pages at BGG about this.... people continue to surprise me in what they can "infere" from posts, non-posts, hints and innuendo... :P
It's BGG - that's what you get.
I was accused of having a caustic attitude here
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/943437/march-mayhem-voting-land-combat-commanders
::)
I was getting sucked into the BGG void regarding the Up Front (non)re-print as well. I'm still keeping the faith that it will get released. These updates came out just today:
Quote
Posted by Rik Falch
Hello supporters.
I realize there has been a lot of paperwork posted online by the plaintiff in his suit against Radiant Gaming.
Radiant has, of course, retained legal counsel in this matter and our counsel has advised we not make any disparaging comments regarding the validity or invalidity of any of the comments being made in the public forum.
However, let us be very clear that Radiant Gaming is perfectly viable and plans to proceed with business.
Having said this, please be patient and allow the legal process to work itself out before jumping to any conclusions about what has been stated publicly so far.
Once we have filed our responses, they will be of public domain and you will then see the full picture.
And this update regarding the German infantry cards:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/362728/posts/432024/image-227570-full.jpg?1363710468)
But I may give it a 50-50 chance of getting printed whereas before I was at 75% that it wouldn't.
seems like the issue isn't one of print/don't print, but who gets paid what, leaving whatever money available to get to the printer
AFAIK, no one is trying to take ownership of the game, but is instead trying to claim that they are due some of the money for it
am I wrong?
Quote from: bayonetbrant on March 19, 2013, 03:26:27 PM
seems like the issue isn't one of print/don't print, but who gets paid what, leaving whatever money available to get to the printer
AFAIK, no one is trying to take ownership of the game, but is instead trying to claim that they are due some of the money for it
am I wrong?
The plaintiff isn't going after money from Up Front or any specific product. He apparently loaned something like $300,000 to Valley Games over numerous payments, and he's gone to court to try to get that back. So the question is : Is Radiant Gaming actually a company independent of Valley, or is it a handy little shell that Valley shunted resources in to?
Quote from: Barthheart on March 19, 2013, 02:07:30 PM
Oh man... 60+ pages at BGG about this.... people continue to surprise me in what they can "infere" from posts, non-posts, hints and innuendo... :P
Yeah, there are a lot of self appointed legal experts blathering back and forth at each other, mixed with the usual BGG passive aggressive trolling crap.
Right - as I understand it, what company/companies are on the hook for that loan (if either/any) and if either/or get zapped for that money, will any of it come out of the KS funding for past and current projects (including Up Front) and if so would that then leave enough to actually make the print run plus extras as promised. Lots of "ifs" in there.
yeah, every time I got near the BBG forums, I'm reminded of why I hate so much of the internet, and why I'm so happy we have our own Principality of Grogland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand) set up over here where people are, for the most part, far less douchey
Quote from: bayonetbrant on March 19, 2013, 04:07:28 PM
yeah, every time I got near the BBG forums, I'm reminded of why I hate so much of the internet, and why I'm so happy we have our own Principality of Grogland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand) set up over here where people are, for the most part, far less douchey
From the link:
QuoteAfter the 2006 fire, both towers were gutted. However, the platform has since been completely rebuilt, with railings, floors and underpadding to keep birds from nesting under the platform (finished early 2007). The building has been completely remodeled and expanded, this includes a new roof/helicopter pad with new directing lights. The building includes a two-bedroom, one-bathroom, kitchen, living room, Royal Palace; and a one-bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, living room, employees' suite. The building also has a one-room chapel, public bathroom, security office, Parliament office/rec room, small store, and the office of the Bureau of Domestic and International Affairs (finished late 2007). Then in mid-2008 a new generator was installed, as well as two new life boats and a pulley system. At the same time repairs were carried out on the artillery piece.
:D
Holy crap!
So, this whole mess has been working it's way through the civil court system. One of the BGG guys actually did a great job throwing together a summarization post of evidence accepted by the court, and good lord : http://boardgamegeek.com/article/11936088#11936088
They basically have Valley/Radiant nailed dead bang with trying to move money and inventory around to avoid seizure. 'Better' yet, they actually got emails between the company heads planning to back date transfers for various properties to Radiant so that it appeared to happen before the original court finding in favor of the plaintiff. And it's been put forth that Valley did, in fact, own the rights to Up Front perhaps as far back as 2008.
Forget the money. These guys are going to be lucky to avoid being brought up on criminal charges.
And if you did contribute to Up Front or Airborne in my Pocket...yeah, you're probably hosed.
And interestingly, updates from the Kickstarter project keep coming out, including 3 updates yesterday that had links to the updated rules (proposed) and new artwork (see: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1325766284/up-front-the-card-game/posts/449390).
I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that the project gets printed and shipped. While some of the court documents may be in the public domain, I don't believe that we have all of the evidence and know all of the facts behind case. We shall see though.
wow - that just makes Curtis's self-inflicted soap opera look like the juvenile high school pablum that it truly was.
Geez, that just gets weirder each day. I'd love to see an Up Front reprint but man, talk about some bumps in the road.
Sheesh. Why can't people just get along?
I must be missing something. Although who the hell would pledge $2,500 or more?
Posted today via Kickstarter:
QuotePosted by Rik Falch
Again, let us be VERY clear that Radiant Gaming is perfectly viable and plans to proceed with business which includes producing Up Front. All Kickstarter supporters will get the game they paid for.
Will there be a delay, yes, but that is due to our main artist no longer being able to deliver the art as promised due to health concerns. We think we have responded well though in hiring Peter Dennis and Steve Noon (each of whom you have seen art from already) and more recently Stephen Walsh, Gerry Embleton, Adam Hook and Sigve Solberg.
Thank you.
I'm quite relaxed...because I think I can buy a copy of the game the normal way, i.e. as a non-backer of the KS project . Am I correct?
Assuming all goes as planned and it gets printed, then yes, you can bet that copies will start showing up on ebay and other marketplace sites for inflated prices (given the pricing history of 2nd hand sales of Up Front). What you may or may not get is some or all of the stretch goal rewards, which was my incentive for backing the project. I would imagine though that there's a number of folks that bought extra sets just for the ebay payoff; the base game with all nationalities plus all of the stretch goal rewards should fetch a pretty penny. Again, assuming the thing actually gets printed.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on April 10, 2013, 01:34:27 PM
I'm quite relaxed...because I think I can buy a copy of the game the normal way, i.e. as a non-backer of the KS project . Am I correct?
If it ever actually becomes existent, yes. Right now, Radiant's bank accounts have been frozen because it seems they were trying to move the money around behind everyone's back.
Seriously, unless they have pretty much the best legal defense team in history, I don't see how they get out from under this.
I'm clutching tightly to my copy of Up Front + Banzai expansion :-X
QuoteAssuming all goes as planned and it gets printed, then yes, you can bet that copies will start showing up on ebay and other marketplace sites for inflated prices
When I said 'the normal way' I didn't mean an eBay rip-off...I meant via a wargame shop or something ;)
With all of the uncertainty about the copyright, and the continued popularity of the game, I wonder why nobody has ever published a look-alike. You know one of those "inspired by" games.
Sadly, I am one of those who has never played the game, and doesn't want to shell out $100 for an old beat up copy on eBay to try it out.
So I am hoping this all gets resolved and I can get a copy through somebody like nwsonline.
QuoteSadly, I am one of those who has never played the game
Sad thing indeed ;)
There's always play via VASSAL. The rules are easy enough to obtain. Barely comes close to actually playing your cards on a real table, but it would give you an idea of how the game plays.
wow... 486 pages of BGG thread about whether or not Up Front is ever going to see the light of day
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/956591/yes-what-does-mean-front/page/1
(pretty sure it won't)
It would seem, if I follow today's filing correctly, that the folks behind the Kickstarter are now $100k+ poorer, but they now hold the license to publish the game...for about, erm, eight weeks.
Sad.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
A quick reminder that it is quite practical to build your own DIY copy of the original using resources listed on BGG, and for ~50% the cost of the lowest KS tier. The rulebook can also be found there. And don't forget the excellent VASSAL module (drop me a note if interested in a match). So still good options available which do not require a second mortgage for purchasing a beat-up copy on eBay.
the image below is 100% DIY.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcf.geekdo-images.com%2Fimages%2Fpic715721_lg.jpg&hash=669297108f2a914ccd6074e97ae8fcd6ebc443da)
HERE (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1289598/go-here-final-instructions-order-and-create-unoffi/page/1) is a consolidated link of url's over to artscow with the most current versions of the decks (it can be confusing as to what to get if you're just browsing artscow for them). I'd be all over this if I didn't already own two nicely laminated and complete copies of UF/Banzai. :)
Quote from: GJK on January 14, 2015, 08:14:10 PM
HERE (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1289598/go-here-final-instructions-order-and-create-unoffi/page/1) is a consolidated link of url's over to artscow with the most current versions of the decks (it can be confusing as to what to get if you're just browsing artscow for them). I'd be all over this if I didn't already own two nicely laminated and complete copies of UF/Banzai. :)
Holy testicle Tuesdays Batman!
That looks like a
lot of printing! :o Gonna have to work up to doing this in the future.
Quote from: Nefaro on January 14, 2015, 08:34:39 PM
Quote from: GJK on January 14, 2015, 08:14:10 PM
HERE (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1289598/go-here-final-instructions-order-and-create-unoffi/page/1) is a consolidated link of url's over to artscow with the most current versions of the decks (it can be confusing as to what to get if you're just browsing artscow for them). I'd be all over this if I didn't already own two nicely laminated and complete copies of UF/Banzai. :)
Holy testicle Tuesdays Batman!
That looks like a lot of printing! :o Gonna have to work up to doing this in the future.
Well, *you* don't have to print it of course but I do have the original pdf's if you or anybody else was interested in printing it locally/at home vs via Artscow. I can throw those up on to a dropbox folder if you all want.
Anyone else find the range calcualtion rules weird?
It does seem counter-intuitive that RR 5 is close and 0 is farthest but it makes performing the math easier (I'm at range 1, you're at range 4, RR is 5: closest).
The defunct reprint was going to "fix" that by making 0 close and 5 the furthest but then you would of had to of reveresed the math by adding 5 to the total (I'm at 4, you're at 1, totals 5 -5 = RR0 or closest).
It works fine as is once you've played it a couple of times.
Quote from: GJK on January 14, 2015, 10:03:34 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on January 14, 2015, 08:34:39 PM
Quote from: GJK on January 14, 2015, 08:14:10 PM
HERE (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1289598/go-here-final-instructions-order-and-create-unoffi/page/1) is a consolidated link of url's over to artscow with the most current versions of the decks (it can be confusing as to what to get if you're just browsing artscow for them). I'd be all over this if I didn't already own two nicely laminated and complete copies of UF/Banzai. :)
Holy testicle Tuesdays Batman!
That looks like a lot of printing! :o Gonna have to work up to doing this in the future.
Well, *you* don't have to print it of course but I do have the original pdf's if you or anybody else was interested in printing it locally/at home vs via Artscow. I can throw those up on to a dropbox folder if you all want.
I'm unfamiliar with Artscow. Didn't realize you could order all the cards there.
How much and how long does it take, I wonder?
I think in that thread that I linked to on BGG someone said that they got what is basically included in the original game (action deck, US/German/USSR decks) for about $100*. There's a pdf for the counters that came with the game which aren't a whole lot (mostly informational) that could be printed and mounted at home.
*Artscow very frequently releases discount codes that include free shipping and/or discounts on the decks and I believe the $100 the use of one of those discount codes.
Wait! Follow THIS (http://boardgamegeek.com/article/17814835#17814835) thread where they post frequent discount codes for use with the Up Front cards at Artscow. According to that, a guy recently printed off nine (9) decks for $75 which is pretty damn good. That would include all the major player nationalities and Greeks and Italians and who knows what else.
Thanks for the info!
Quote from: Nefaro on January 14, 2015, 11:31:39 PM
I'm unfamiliar with Artscow. Didn't realize you could order all the cards there.
How much and how long does it take, I wonder?
I ordered the Action Card deck from Artscow (168 cards). As Gary suggests, I waited until there was discount. If I recall correctly my discount was free shipping. Believe this brought the cost down to $25-30. I'd guess that having the entire game printed by Artscow would have doubled the size of my order.
Think it took ~1 week to receive my order from ArtCow. Quality was as good as any COTs game.
Quote from: Rekim on January 15, 2015, 02:26:17 PM
Think it took ~1 week to receive my order from ArtCow. Quality was as good as any COTs game.
That's good. If I went this route, I hoped the cards would be passable quality.
Quote from: Rekim on January 14, 2015, 04:04:02 PM
A quick reminder that it is quite practical to build your own DIY copy of the original using resources listed on BGG, and for ~50% the cost of the lowest KS tier. The rulebook can also be found there. And don't forget the excellent VASSAL module (drop me a note if interested in a match). So still good options available which do not require a second mortgage for purchasing a beat-up copy on eBay.
the image below is 100% DIY.
So if someone goes that route, who gets the money that you send in to pay for it with?
Does it go to the people who actually toiled to create the artwork? That would be cool. I believe Ron Volstad was out of action for several weeks - perhaps months - due to IIRC major eye surgery and would probably not consider money unwelcome right now.
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on January 15, 2015, 07:26:30 PM
So if someone goes that route, who gets the money that you send in to pay for it with?
the cards are in the catalogue of an e-card printing vendor.