Limit Theory is a space sim that's based around procedural generation. The designer's intention is to give the player as much freedom as possible in a literally infinite universe that's different every time you start a new game. There's a Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshparnell/limit-theory-an-infinite-procedural-space-game?ref=card) page up...I
urge you to watch the video, and pay particular attention to the combat that starts at around 5 minutes. It looks beautiful!
List of features:
Quote
An open-world space simulator / RPG
A sandbox game : No story, no restrictions.
Completely procedural : A completely new universe is only a button-click away.
Infinite : The game universe has no boundary.
Third-Person or First-Person : Command your ship from within or without.
Deep and intelligent : Engage in far more than just combat or trading.
Twitch-Based : Aim and fire weaponry directly, as you would in a shooter.
Approachable : Intuitive controls and slick interfaces ensure that playing will never feel like a job.
Strategic : Command an entire fleet when you amass enough cash to purchase more ships.
Extensively-Customizable : Outfit your ship, fleet, and space stations with whatever equipment you choose.
Single Player : A universe built just for you, that no one else will ever get to see (unless you choose to share it with them!)
Beautiful and Atmospheric : Gaze in awe at a universe as diverse, vibrant, and uniquely-atmospheric as your dreams.
(Emphasis mine)
This sounds too good to be true. I have a feeling that Limit Theory might...just
might...be the ultimate space sim we didn't even know we were waiting for.
Please note that landing on planets is also in!
The Kickstarter is more than $37,000 pledged out of a $50,000 goal. One final note about the procedural generation:
QuoteIt's Totally Procedural.
Well, almost...the music and sound effects will be hand-made. But everything you see will be procedural. Planets, nebulae, stars, asteroids, ships, stations, textures, and so on. Thanks to cutting-edge procedural generation technology, Limit Theory will have the ability to keep providing you with new experiences. No matter how long you play, there will always be more to explore, see, learn, and conquer!
Every mission, every event, and every asset that you encounter in game will be unique - and it won't be the same next time you play. You'll never "beat" the game, nor will you ever know it like the back of your hand. When you feel that it has become too familiar, all you must do is click "New Game," and you will once again be completely lost.
Get backin', folks! 8)
Damn it Huw, :) I've already pledged to MORE and Star Citizen. Looks like LT may be another one worthy of a few $s. 2013/2014 may be the new golden age of space sims. Thanks for the heads up!
Quote from: steve58 on November 24, 2012, 09:44:59 PM
Damn it Huw, :) I've already pledged to MORE and Star Citizen. Looks like LT may be another one worthy of a few $s. 2013/2014 may be the new golden age of space sims. Thanks for the heads up!
Well, the $15 pledge point is almost gone (1 less already that I know of :D) so hurry.
You'll both thank me for it. :)
It looks like the result of jumping into the life of a pilot within the Star Ruler universe, with X-series-like gameplay, doesn't it? I have a very good feeling about this one. It shall be mine!
Sounds promising...but the description of "twitch-based'" has me concerned.
Well, what space sim isn't? I think he was just pointing out that weapons are directly controlled as opposed to something more hands-off. We'll see I guess.
...in for $20. Missed the early bird special. Would've liked to have gotten in on the beta, but $45 was a bit much.
They had me at "...can land on planets."
Bloody hell. I had to pull the trigger...
It sounds, and looks, too good to be true, but it could be stunning. Worth keeping an eye on.
I love you, procedural generation.
...here's a new gameplay video he put out yesterday..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNU02rDSSvI&feature=youtu.be&hd=1
...and looks like he'll hit his goal of $50,000 within the next few hours with another 26 days for the stretch goals.
Wow. It's incredible what this guy has achieved in three months. Shooting asteroids already looks way better in Limit Theory than it does in any other sim I can think of. This game is in danger of fast becoming my most anticipated game!
Breaking news: Funding achieved! \o/
This looks great. Kind of in the same vein as Evochron but his universe should be much more immersive. I'm excited to to see how the gameplay develops. This could be "The" game for me. What more could I ask for in a sandbox than someone inspired by Morrowind?
Sparhawk
Sparhawk, agreed. I hesitate to say this because I'm a fan of the Evochron series, but I have to wonder how full-time development on it is so slow when this guy has achieved what he has working part-time in three months.
Rock Paper Shotgun interview Josh Parnell (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/11/30/interview-limit-theory-creator-josh-parnell/)
Here is the latest tech demo video for Limit Theory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLINRbq3QKM&hd=1
He's hit his $167K goal and is on the way to $200K for carriers (has one in the video though), but has only 29 hours to go.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshparnell/limit-theory-an-infinite-procedural-space-game?ref=live
I am in at $15, but I am so tempted to raise it to the $45 beta level. Part of me says "hey may, cool it, you have no clue if he will ever finish such an ambitious project," but another part says, "MUST SEE GAME BEFORE GENERAL RELEASE!"
In his FAQ, he wrote:
QuoteSince Limit Theory is totally procedural, I don't have to spend day after day modeling new ships or painting new background textures. When I spend a day working on a procedural algorithm, not only does it enhance the quality of one asset, it enhances the quality of EVERY asset of that kind in the game. This is really an incredibly efficient development process. The problem of building an entire game of assets becomes the problem of building an algorithm to construct a single type of asset. It's this sweeping simplification of game development that allows me to work quickly enough to build Limit Theory as a one man team.
Now, you might be skeptical. You might think that everything will look the same after a while, perhaps because you've seen poorly-done procedural content before. But that's not the way it has to be. That's not a fundamental property of PCG. Procedural algorithms can be as complex, diverse, and varied as the author allows them to be. Since they are at the heart of Limit Theory, you can rest assured that I will be spending countless hours advancing and tuning the algorithms to make sure that they produce high-quality yet diverse content.
So there you have it. At the risk of sounding ludicrous, my claim to you is that building Limit Theory is easy. I build an algorithm for planets, ships, background nebulae, asteroids, stations, etc...and then I build the gameplay. I recognize that the latter, in particular, is quite a complex task, which is why I have allotted over a year for it.
If this is correct, I wonder if procedural generation is going to be the hot new technique in game design? It would seem to be a big money-saver for devs.
He makes me nervous when he talks like that. I mean, I have no reason to doubt his words at all, but he just makes it all sound so easy. Procedural generation can be tough to get right...ask any level designer who's tried it. Your algorithms need to be very tight to prevent things getting ridiculous whilst maintaining coherency.
Still...this is probably my most anticipated game in development right now. I need it!
Funded at $187K...now 12 months to wait ???
I was really hoping he'd hit $200K so we'd get carriers :-\
Quote from: steve58 on December 22, 2012, 08:26:16 PM
I was really hoping he'd hit $200K so we'd get carriers :-\
With the amount of enthusiasm the guy has, I wouldn't be surprised if he sticks them in anyway. I mean, who doesn't want carriers in a space sim?!
Quote from: Huw the Poo on December 22, 2012, 08:53:55 PM
Quote from: steve58 on December 22, 2012, 08:26:16 PM
I was really hoping he'd hit $200K so we'd get carriers :-\
With the amount of enthusiasm the guy has, I wouldn't be surprised if he sticks them in anyway. I mean, who doesn't want carriers in a space sim?!
He DID have a carrier in that last video, so I'm kinda hoping for this as well!
Quote from: steve58 on December 22, 2012, 09:05:05 PM
Quote from: Huw the Poo on December 22, 2012, 08:53:55 PM
Quote from: steve58 on December 22, 2012, 08:26:16 PM
I was really hoping he'd hit $200K so we'd get carriers :-\
With the amount of enthusiasm the guy has, I wouldn't be surprised if he sticks them in anyway. I mean, who doesn't want carriers in a space sim?!
He DID have a carrier in that last video, so I'm kinda hoping for this as well!
I think Carriers were in at $190K, and he hit it. From the email he sent, it looks like the only goal missed was seamless transitions to planet surfaces.
EDIT: OH... I see what he did there... Yeah... So... carriers are in!
Great news! Now I really do wish I had gotten into the beta.
Yeah, I wasn't looking at his updates on Kickstarter, just the main page. Sounds like a lot of people were confused as well. He's got one Stretch Goals pic on the main page (towards the bottom) that he didn't change so it still shows $200K for Carriers.
What I am really worried about here is that the whole game is going to feel robotic, without any soul. You often see that with too much procedurally generated content and as the whole game is like that here, I fear for its soul.
updates -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t6vVziWb00U
and..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqT1Lr6dnLs&feature=player_embedded#at=933
still looking good
*fap fap fap*
tea down face!! well played sir ;D ;D
That planet is ridiculously good looking!
True, but with all that macro-gravel nearby, K-T events are probably a biannual occurrence, at the least.
I so can't wait for this to be done!
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 17, 2013, 09:44:58 PM
True, but with all that macro-gravel nearby, K-T events are probably a biannual occurrence, at the least.
It is set in the same universe as
Asteroids, apparently.
Where is it! Must have it!
A quick Google search shows that the developer disappeared for many months, and returned in May of this year, citing mental illness. However, updates are still absent.
So he's fucked off with 200 mill. This is a Groginatti mission.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 29, 2015, 02:29:26 PM
So he's fucked off with 200 mill. This is a Groginatti mission.
Um, 200 million? Where the hell did you get that from?! :uglystupid2:
He got 187K. I've just spent some time trawling through the LT forum, and what I've found is this. He burned out after three years of developing and posting pretty much
daily updates. He got sick - mentally - and disappeared for a few months while it was treated. He came back at the end of May. He's popped up a few times on the forum, most recently on 9th July (that's only three weeks ago) and says he's been coding steadily the whole time. Apparently he shows up in IRC too. He's still under treatment but still coding.
Ok then.
We will send petunias instead of an orbital strike.
Hope he's doing better and fully recovers. That said, I'd also like to see LT get released...
Quote from: steve58 on July 29, 2015, 02:44:45 PM
Hope he's doing better and fully recovers. That said, I'd also like to see LT get released...
Heh, this pretty much sums it up for me. I'm sympathetic,
of course! But I really wanna play the game..........
I recall the speculation if a single developer could do something this ambitious when he first announced the game. Apparently the answer is "Not and stay sane."
I'd love to play the game, but not at the cost of the developer's health.
Maybe we should find him and teach him to drink?
Ha! I bought in as well...
"There, there... it will all be fine. :)
Now, where's my frakkin' game?!?"
a bit of an update in the LT forums (http://forums.ltheory.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4859&p=121861#p121861)
Sounds like 2 steps back and 1 step forward. He re-wrote the engine to hopefully speed progress up.
@Huw - I think you need to re-title this thread to something more like "Limit Theory - the space sim with no release in sight!"
Josh is back. :clap:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshparnell/limit-theory-an-infinite-procedural-space-game/posts/1798322
I did see that. Hope springs eternal.
Twitch-based kills it for me. Glad I never sank any money into this.
...another long-awaited update. Hope springs eternal :)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshparnell/limit-theory-an-infinite-procedural-space-game/posts/1940955
I almost fed into the hype, and game him some of my money. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the developer. He took 187K other people's money, and didn't deliver the goods.
Schrödinger's video game.
Well, contrary to the title of this thread, it appears Limit Theory does indeed has a limit and has smacked into it. From an email I just received:
Quote
The End
Posted by Josh Parnell (Creator)
It is with a heart of lead that I write this announcement. Not in my darkest nightmares did I expect this day to ever come, but circumstances have reached a point that even my endless optimism can no longer rectify. I can not finish Limit Theory.
After six years, I am finally at the end of my means. Financially, I am beyond the initial investment and have exhausted most of my personal savings. But significantly more troubling is that I am entirely out of energy -- emotionally, mentally, even physically. Every year that passes sees me becoming more desperate to make good on the dream with which you all entrusted me, but each such year I grow less and less capable of doing so as my mindset falls further away from that bright, beautiful hope that powered me from the beginning. I am not what I once was.
Despite what felt like an incredible amount of progress in the last year alone, Limit Theory remains frighteningly far from feature completion. It is my own fault, for having underestimated at every turn the amount of work that goes into such a creation. It is my own fault, for having overestimated my own cognitive resilience and for believing that no number of setbacks would ever inhibit my ability to bring a passion project to life.
I don't know how to make this right. For years now, I've been running on pure loyalty to you all -- it has been quite a long time, if I'm honest, since I was actually working from a place of inspiration -- yet even with the purest of intentions and the deepest desire to honor my commitment, I find myself unable to bring about miracles. No matter how hard I try, it's not enough to bring LT to fruition, and this pattern of failure has evicted all self-confidence and hope from my mind, leaving only doubt, anxiety, and despair. Some days I think to myself "how absurd that a game should make me feel this way," and I realize just how unfit I have become to build a source of joy. I wanted so, so badly to make you all proud. To bring you all joy. There are no words to properly convey how sorry I am that I have failed you all.
I imagine I could go on and on with this gushing of negativity -- the years have left me with no shortage of it. But I don't think much good will come of it. Those of you who have followed the project closely, you already know how much I have put into it; how I have given 110% of myself. Trying isn't the same as doing, so I don't expect any thanks for it, but I hope you all do know just how hard I've tried. I've simply got nothing more to give.
So, what now?
Well, I will prepare the source code for release. It's not a working game, and in my frenzy to get things working I've left huge swaths of code in a half-refactored or half-complete state. But releasing it is the least I can do. I don't imagine it will be of any use to anyone, other than as a monument to a failed dream. Perhaps those who are interested in game engines will glean a thing or two from the engine, as it is a fairly solid piece of engineering, much more solid than the Lua game code.
For the moment, though, I wanted to get this off my chest as soon as possible. It has been the most painful, difficult decision of my life, and I'm sure that there will be no shortage of blowback. But I simply cannot continue to destroy myself in search of a feat of which I am not capable. When I began this project, I felt that anything was possible. Here now, at the end, I must swallow the painful reality that: I, too, am human. I am limited by time, I am limited by finances, and I am limited by mental & emotional stamina.
One last time, I would like to thank everyone who contributed. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for believing in Limit Theory. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to try for something wonderful. One last time, I am so sincerely sorry for having let you down. I hope, at the very least, that some of you have enjoyed the ride as I've pitted my brain over the years against one challenge after the next.
I'll be in touch when I have readied the source code for release.
~Josh
Maybe Derek Smart can do something with the source code, if someone pays him enough... get that Kickstarter going, pronto! ::)
I just got the same email. TBH, I feel sorry for the guy- he seems to have some harsh personal issues he's been dealing with. The fact that he feels compelled years later to let everyone know he couldn't cut it in the end definitely sets him a bit above those asshats that grab your cash and then fade themselves off into oblivion only to start up another crowd sourced scam on a different platform.
What a bloody shame. This game could have been amazing, I've been looking forward to it ever since the Kickstarter.
Agreed. It looked amazing, although I always thought it was a big project for one bloke. I actually thought it had died a while back.
It did seem to die for a while. If I recall correctly, Josh disappeared without trace for many months, eventually making a reappearance with news that he'd had something close to a breakdown due to the stress of the project.
I feel for the guy, really. He's given six years of his life with pretty much nothing to show for it. I believe he was 18 when he started. He's ruined a significant part of his young adulthood.
Aye. It's a shame. But some perspective is required...
We shouldn't forget the guy got 180 grand from people with them getting nothing back. Who knows WTF the guy was doing over those years.
If I was to take a fraction of 180k from my company and gave them nothing back, I wouldn't be employed.
It was good of him not to just walk away as some kickstarters do. It was also good of him to release the code. And yes - Kickstarter = buyer beware.
But he did garner alot of cash for not return.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 29, 2018, 03:08:40 PM
Aye. It's a shame. But some perspective is required...
We shouldn't forget the guy got 180 grand from people with them getting nothing back. Who knows WTF the guy was doing over those years.
If I was to take a fraction of 180k from my company and gave them nothing back, I wouldn't be employed.
It was good of him not to just walk away as some kickstarters do. It was also good of him to release the code. And yes - Kickstarter = buyer beware.
But he did garner alot of cash for not return.
Yeah, he paints a wonderful picture of his selfless struggles against all odds to bring us something amazing while overlooking the fact that he solicited and accepted 180k worth of other people's money. This is the two-edged sword of Kickstarter and I've been disappointed after contributing more often than not. It's great that he had a wonderful idea and vision for a game, but hey....I've got an amazing, best selling novel in my head that I'd love to write if only I had the
talent to go with the idea. Maybe I can sell the
idea on Kickstarter.
Oh aye - you could write a book about a guy who has a vision of a mind-boggling space based PC game............................. :2funny:
^Stuff like this is why we love ya, Bawb :dreamer: :dreamer: :dreamer:
Well, at least people can play around with the source code now. Maybe something will come of this one yet...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshparnell/limit-theory-an-infinite-procedural-space-game/posts/3564318
I hope so. Such an enormous effort to develop code by an 18-year old (if that report is true) is wildly optimistic. There's a reason that professional developers get paid more than non-professional developers.
That last letter of his seems sincere and heartfelt. Were he a sleazebag, he wouldn't have bothered, I don't think.
I've always viewed Kickstarter campaigns as the equivalent of giving a friend money but never really expecting anything back. The Internet just doesn't lend itself to building authentic human relationships with people you've never known.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on July 25, 2022, 12:32:26 AM
I hope so. Such an enormous effort to develop code by an 18-year old (if that report is true) is wildly optimistic. There's a reason that professional developers get paid more than non-professional developers.
That last letter of his seems sincere and heartfelt. Were he a sleazebag, he wouldn't have bothered, I don't think.
I've always viewed Kickstarter campaigns as the equivalent of giving a friend money but never really expecting anything back. The Internet just doesn't lend itself to building authentic human relationships with people you've never known.
The world of gaming software has changed so much just in the last 12 years. In 2010, Stardock got skewered by the gaming public for releasing "Elemental" in a flawed, but still playable state. The pitchforks and torches mob nearly took Stardock down for sins that would seem very minor by today's standards.
These days devs can take all the time they want and in the end just release source code... I suppose someone could sue the guy for fraud; even though he is a "sincere" fraudster...but really, who wants to bother...and I am not a lawyer...given the vagaries of Kickstarter, it may not even be possible to sue...
But by the 'old standards,' he took money to produce a product. The folks giving him that money had every right to expect something that was fit for purpose when he was done; instead, the investors got source code. It would be like me asking for money to build furniture. Then after 10 years I point to a pile of furniture parts and say; "sorry, I just can't make furniture...but here's a table leg."
....looking for the 'old guy yelling on the lawn' emoji, but cant find it...
Quote from: ArizonaTank on July 25, 2022, 11:25:02 AM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on July 25, 2022, 12:32:26 AM
I hope so. Such an enormous effort to develop code by an 18-year old (if that report is true) is wildly optimistic. There's a reason that professional developers get paid more than non-professional developers.
That last letter of his seems sincere and heartfelt. Were he a sleazebag, he wouldn't have bothered, I don't think.
I've always viewed Kickstarter campaigns as the equivalent of giving a friend money but never really expecting anything back. The Internet just doesn't lend itself to building authentic human relationships with people you've never known.
The world of gaming software has changed so much just in the last 12 years. In 2010, Stardock got skewered by the gaming public for releasing "Elemental" in a flawed, but still playable state. The pitchforks and torches mob nearly took Stardock down for sins that would seem very minor by today's standards.
These days devs can take all the time they want and in the end just release source code... I suppose someone could sue the guy for fraud; even though he is a "sincere" fraudster...but really, who wants to bother...and I am not a lawyer...given the vagaries of Kickstarter, it may not even be possible to sue...
But by the 'old standards,' he took money to produce a product. The folks giving him that money had every right to expect something that was fit for purpose when he was done; instead, the investors got source code. It would be like me asking for money to build furniture. Then after 10 years I point to a pile of furniture parts and say; "sorry, I just can't make furniture...but here's a table leg."
....looking for the 'old guy yelling on the lawn' emoji, but cant find it...
I don't think your example translates precisely to these circumstances. I think payments on kickstarter or more akin to an investment. If the investment is realized, your return is the receipt of some product, be it physical or digital. However, as with any investment, there are risks and there is never any guaranty that an investor will not lose his/her investment capital. This is the risk one takes. As they say, Kickstarter is NOT a store and it does not issue refunds. "When you back a project, you're supporting a creator's right to try to make something new—and agreeing to go along for the ride..."
There are pros and cons to crowdfunding. The most obvious pro is that by investing, you are generally helping the developer create a new product that would otherwise be impossible without the seed capital. You also typically get the chance to participate in the development by having access to early builds or to private avenues of communication with the developer. The obvious con is that the project may fail and never be completed and depending on the extent of your investment, you may be out some money with little or nothing to show for it. Them's the breaks, brother.