http://www.creative-assembly.com/sega-and-creative-assembly-announce-partnership-with-games-workshop-to-create-warhammer-games/
if there was a word for the noise made by a little bit of wee coming out in excitement, id type it here
Absolutely brilliant :) I can't wait...
Nice! :)
Quote from: FlickJax on December 06, 2012, 11:46:45 AM
Absolutely brilliant :) I can't wait...
What he said...+1
The modders will just have to convert to WH40K. :)
Will promptly throw away that terrible "Mark of Chaos" attempt at officially "like Total Warring" the game...
About time.
OMG! I just ejaculated, crapped, pissed and vomited all from total and utter excitement over this news!!!!!!
*Pinch *Pinch ..... Am I dreaming....
WHY NOT WH40K!?!?! *blargh* NEEEEEERRRRD RAAAAGE!
Ok, I'm better. As long as I can play Skaven, I'm good to go.
Well I'll be scuppered. Look forward to seeing what they come up with.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 06, 2012, 12:14:27 PM
OMG! I just ejaculated, crapped, pissed and vomited all from total and utter excitement over this news!!!!!!
LOL.
I'm just surprised/relieved you didn't have a stroke (from excitement) instead. :D
My reaction is equal parts "Sweet!" and "It took THIS LONG for this partnership to happen? Seriously?!"
I have sort of mixed views on this - the Call of Warhammer Mod for MTW2 is supposed to be very good indeed - I'm planning on trying it, but just haven't got round to it yet - it now has the English translation that fans were waiting for too. And it's at a great price... free!
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1377
Quote from: Boggit on December 06, 2012, 04:25:35 PM
I have sort of mixed views on this - the Call of Warhammer Mod for MTW2 is supposed to be very good indeed - I'm planning on trying it, but just haven't got round to it yet - it now has the English translation that fans were waiting for too. And it's at a great price... free!
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1377
Yeah, but I was never able to get it running. And with a formal collaboration, we do not have to fear anyone getting shut down by games workshop for violating an IP.
Please let there be Empire Steam Tanks.
I would have liked 40K better, but this is still good news.
It did say that CA got a "multi-title" license, so I wouldn't rule 40K out. Here is to hoping.
40k is not suited for line battles. Using the CoH engine was logical buy I didn't like the base building.
Quote from: jomni on December 06, 2012, 05:42:33 PM
40k is not suited for line battles. Using the CoH engine was logical buy I didn't like the base building.
Actually, I'm not so sure about that. If you read some of the fiction, the armies of the 41st millennium pretty much seem to line up and duke it out like they did in the 18th and 19th centuries. They would have to make certain modifications to the engine to model some of the units and vehicles, as well as change the scale, but I think it could still be pretty cool.
^^Maybe not. If the mass of units were Imperial Guard, with small elite units being Marine companies, then it could work. For the other races, unit sizes could be tailored, so masses of green-skins, as large mobs, would be fine, for instance.
I'm making the assumption that we talking about 40K using the TW engine, or a modification thereof?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 06, 2012, 05:42:25 PM
It did say that CA got a "multi-title" license, so I wouldn't rule 40K out. Here is to hoping.
it also says - 'warhammer universe of fantasy battles' - im hoping thats just semantics but we all know fantasy battles means ye olden days
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 06, 2012, 06:01:13 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 06, 2012, 05:42:25 PM
It did say that CA got a "multi-title" license, so I wouldn't rule 40K out. Here is to hoping.
it also says - 'warhammer universe of fantasy battles' - im hoping thats just semantics but we all know fantasy battles means ye olden days
Well aren't you a debbie downer?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 06, 2012, 06:09:08 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 06, 2012, 06:01:13 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 06, 2012, 05:42:25 PM
It did say that CA got a "multi-title" license, so I wouldn't rule 40K out. Here is to hoping.
it also says - 'warhammer universe of fantasy battles' - im hoping thats just semantics but we all know fantasy battles means ye olden days
Well aren't you a debbie downer?
im sorry JH, i feel responsible for your wasted ejaculating and vomiting now - shall i pop round with a mop?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 06, 2012, 04:54:05 PM
Quote from: Boggit on December 06, 2012, 04:25:35 PM
I have sort of mixed views on this - the Call of Warhammer Mod for MTW2 is supposed to be very good indeed - I'm planning on trying it, but just haven't got round to it yet - it now has the English translation that fans were waiting for too. And it's at a great price... free!
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1377
Yeah, but I was never able to get it running. And with a formal collaboration, we do not have to fear anyone getting shut down by games workshop for violating an IP.
Good point. The forum at TWC suggests the problem you had may now be fixed. I suppose the modder's can try to rely on a defence of non-commercial use, or more likely an acquiescence by Games Workshop in the face of infringement, given the time they've been doing it, but I guess it's a fine line they tread with a well known trade mark.
CRIKEY!!!
Excuse me while I go "w00t111!!!111"
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 06, 2012, 05:42:25 PM
It did say that CA got a "multi-title" license, so I wouldn't rule 40K out. Here is to hoping.
Then it's a certainty.
Ok now before you get your pitch forks and torches and perma-ban me from the forum please know that I was sheltered as a child....
I know I am taking my life into my hands here but here goes.
I know almost nothing about Warhammer or 40k for that matter........
Thats not to say I can't learn I just need some people to point me in the right direction instead of lynching me for my ignorance. :)
**runs and hides
...
It's ok until a year ago I never read a book or played a game in either universe either.
But then I did. And the rest is awesome.
Check out the, "What are we reading", thread in the Books section.
+1 with Gus. No worries, Tent. You'll catch up pretty fast if you want to. Let us know if you have any questions. The fluff around the games can be pretty tough to wade through if you've never been schooled in it. Especially the sci-fi stuff. I strongly recommend that you chat with us before buying any WH40K book off the shelf. There are only a few good entry-level books, and the rest will leave you in the dust.
So there is Warhammer 40K which is sci-fi and Warhammer Fantasy Battle which is obviously fantasy, I've got that much. This games is going to be fantasy correct?
If so where should I start beyond just a google search for Warhammer?
http://www.lexicanum.com/
Let's hope this doesn't turn out to be another typical RTS. Are they gonna use the TW2 engine for it?
The fluff is rich and deep. First pick a genre - fantasy or scifi.
Do you want to know general info about a faction or want some reading recommendations? Or do you want to try a minis game?
erm....what's the difference between Warhammer and 40k?
I've always been a litle lost when it comes to the warhammer series - I guess because I wasn't onboard from the start
There's a medieval versions and space 40k version of Warhammer. THQ games are based on the Space universe. Total War will most likely be Medieval but a lot are hoping it's the space one.
Summed up beautifully - ta.
I don't understand why I didn't pick these up in the sale on Steam??
Anyway - I will next time I see them. I believe I bought Warhammer and Winter Assault a long time ago...that's where you capture points on the map and build things from what I recall...though as I understand it Warhammer 40k has dropped building and capturing points on a map and has moved to smaller actions (4 squads I blieve?).
From what I remember I quite liked Winter Assault...though it could get frenetic.
So everyone is thinking it'll be using the Total War engine? Is that a definite that we know of? Because isn't one of the latest upcoming CA titles something with a new engine?
I like the Warhammer universe but most of the games over the last decade or more have been simpleton RTS games and action-shooters. >:( I'm hoping it at least has some Total War depth to it.
Wow Nefaro is thinking out of the box. I now remember CA making a Greek Mythology hack and slash called Spartan.
^I have to say I'm starting to fear this as well.
Plus, THQ for now is the one doing 40K games (Dawn of war series, Space Marine, etc...).
Quote from: JudgeDredd on December 07, 2012, 02:44:19 AM
erm....what's the difference between Warhammer and 40k?
I've always been a litle lost when it comes to the warhammer series - I guess because I wasn't onboard from the start
You, sir, should be ashamed to call yourself an Englishman.
^ I am
Because I'm a Scotsman :P
Quote from: LongBlade on December 07, 2012, 12:30:51 AM
The fluff is rich and deep. First pick a genre - fantasy or scifi.
Do you want to know general info about a faction or want some reading recommendations? Or do you want to try a minis game?
Mostly likely the fantasy genre to start with. Reading recommendations would be good. Is it something one can just jump into and learn as they go or is there some kind of "beginning" that you need to start from to help you understand everything?
Quote from: TheCommandTent on December 07, 2012, 08:27:31 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on December 07, 2012, 12:30:51 AM
The fluff is rich and deep. First pick a genre - fantasy or scifi.
Do you want to know general info about a faction or want some reading recommendations? Or do you want to try a minis game?
Mostly likely the fantasy genre to start with. Reading recommendations would be good. Is it something one can just jump into and learn as they go or is there some kind of "beginning" that you need to start from to help you understand everything?
To me the fantasy novels are far more accessible than the 40K ones. Far less esoteric context to understand, and frankly, I think better writing on the whole.
Three immediately come to mind: the Ulrika the Vampire series, the Brunnor anthology, and the Gotrek & Felix series. Here are some links:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1844168255/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1844168255&linkCode=as2&tag=grogheads-20
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1844168670/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1844168670&linkCode=as2&tag=grogheads-20
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1844163741/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1844163741&linkCode=as2&tag=grogheads-20
There are others, but I can't say that I've read every fantasy novel out there. The Vampire Wars is OK. At times it gets really interesting. At times it's dry like a history book (which it seems to almost have been written to lay the foundation of the race in the minis game). And sometimes just when it gets good the author ensures the vampires do what they're supposed to do: be evil undead. So the book sometimes shifts from anti-hero to outright bad guys, which for me cemented the authenticity of the story, but also partially soured my reading. I like good guys. However, I stuck with the book and on the whole liked it. It would not, however, be my first recommendation for a n00b to the genre.
I am basically a noob here but had no trouble jumping into the Space Wolves omnibus or the couple of Warhammer fantasy books I have read. I love Warhammer books...the dark fantasy stuff is great. Can't wait to see what Creative Assembly come up with. Vampiric factions would be so uber!
Quote from: Gusington on December 07, 2012, 09:49:47 AM
I am basically a noob here but had no trouble jumping into the Space Wolves omnibus or the couple of Warhammer fantasy books I have read. I love Warhammer books...the dark fantasy stuff is great. Can't wait to see what Creative Assembly come up with. Vampiric factions would be so uber!
The Space Wolves and Ultramarines books are the two that might be easiest to get into. At least for the Astartes.
Henry Zou's Imperial Guard might be even more accessible, and Abnett has some 2nd Tanith that probably could work, too.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on December 07, 2012, 07:15:30 AM
^ I am
Because I'm a Scotsman :P
Same crap to us over here across the pond...except you wear skirts.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2012, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on December 07, 2012, 07:15:30 AM
^ I am
Because I'm a Scotsman :P
Same crap to us over here across the pond...except you wear skirts.
tea and snot all over my face - thank god theres just me here!!
bravo JH
Quote from: TheCommandTent on December 06, 2012, 10:10:44 PM
Ok now before you get your pitch forks and torches and perma-ban me from the forum please know that I was sheltered as a child....
I know I am taking my life into my hands here but here goes.
I know almost nothing about Warhammer or 40k for that matter........
Thats not to say I can't learn I just need some people to point me in the right direction instead of lynching me for my ignorance. :)
**runs and hides
Don't feel bad, I'm a Warhammer virgin too.
The only reason I have even the miniscule knowledge of it that I do is from hanging around these yahoos...
Quote from: Martok on December 07, 2012, 04:10:39 PM
Don't feel bad, I'm a Warhammer virgin too.
Prepare to be Warhammer 40K gang raped, my friend.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-d_dJpmP4PW8%2FTsn_U-n3ZiI%2FAAAAAAAAAFA%2FULSkoNKFrvw%2Fs1600%2FNoise%252BMarine%252BCodex%252BV3.jpg&hash=7ed815fb88e3ea3647a7144214b2b35fab31f36d)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.moddb.com%2Fimages%2Fgroups%2F1%2F3%2F2055%2FWarhammer-Peace.jpg&hash=588551a9c363cff2b876668bea93fb12bd4173aa)
Quote from: jomni on December 07, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
Wow Nefaro is thinking out of the box. I now remember CA making a Greek Mythology hack and slash called Spartan.
I've had this long-held belief that there is a curse upon digital Warhammer games. They all seem to be stuck in Dumbed-Down Hell.
Considering the whole universe came from tabletop games, I'd expect a thinking man's strategy PC game to arrive sometime but all I keep seeing is typical ADD and console-style titles. Perhaps Games Workshop is forcing the lowest common denominator, mass-market, 'Play & Throw Away' games on digital developers, but I'm hoping it's just a plain 'ole curse. :o Hopefully they don't screw up and cook up yet another RTS clone with an extra bell or whistle because I want.. nay,
demand.. a deep cerebral Warhammer strategy game! The last decent thinker I played in that universe was
Chaos Gate. :'(
^^Nice picture W8, although I still like the MK6 'Corvus' armour more than the MK7 'Eagle' armour.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 07, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
Quote from: jomni on December 07, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
Wow Nefaro is thinking out of the box. I now remember CA making a Greek Mythology hack and slash called Spartan.
I've had this long-held belief that there is a curse upon digital Warhammer games. They all seem to be stuck in Dumbed-Down Hell.
Considering the whole universe came from tabletop games, I'd expect a thinking man's strategy PC game to arrive sometime but all I keep seeing is typical ADD and console-style titles. Perhaps Games Workshop is forcing the lowest common denominator, mass-market, 'Play & Throw Away' games on digital developers, but I'm hoping it's just a plain 'ole curse. :o Hopefully they don't screw up and cook up yet another RTS clone with an extra bell or whistle because I want.. nay, demand.. a deep cerebral Warhammer strategy game! The last decent thinker I played in that universe was Chaos Gate. :'(
Yeah but Warhammer and 40K pretty much "dumbed down" the whole miniatures scene so why would you expect any difference on PC?
Quote from: Nefaro on December 07, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
Quote from: jomni on December 07, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
Wow Nefaro is thinking out of the box. I now remember CA making a Greek Mythology hack and slash called Spartan.
I've had this long-held belief that there is a curse upon digital Warhammer games. They all seem to be stuck in Dumbed-Down Hell.
Considering the whole universe came from tabletop games, I'd expect a thinking man's strategy PC game to arrive sometime but all I keep seeing is typical ADD and console-style titles. Perhaps Games Workshop is forcing the lowest common denominator, mass-market, 'Play & Throw Away' games on digital developers, but I'm hoping it's just a plain 'ole curse. :o Hopefully they don't screw up and cook up yet another RTS clone with an extra bell or whistle because I want.. nay, demand.. a deep cerebral Warhammer strategy game! The last decent thinker I played in that universe was Chaos Gate. :'(
Shadows of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen were pretty awesome back in the day.
Thanks for the input guys. I'll have to see if the local library has any these books, if not I can use gift cards from Christmas.
Quote from: Tpek on December 07, 2012, 04:44:56 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 07, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
Quote from: jomni on December 07, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
Wow Nefaro is thinking out of the box. I now remember CA making a Greek Mythology hack and slash called Spartan.
I've had this long-held belief that there is a curse upon digital Warhammer games. They all seem to be stuck in Dumbed-Down Hell.
Considering the whole universe came from tabletop games, I'd expect a thinking man's strategy PC game to arrive sometime but all I keep seeing is typical ADD and console-style titles. Perhaps Games Workshop is forcing the lowest common denominator, mass-market, 'Play & Throw Away' games on digital developers, but I'm hoping it's just a plain 'ole curse. :o Hopefully they don't screw up and cook up yet another RTS clone with an extra bell or whistle because I want.. nay, demand.. a deep cerebral Warhammer strategy game! The last decent thinker I played in that universe was Chaos Gate. :'(
Shadows of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen were pretty awesome back in the day.
I owned Shadows of the Horned Rat for my PS2. I was VERY bad at it. :-(
Quote from: Tpek on December 07, 2012, 04:44:56 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 07, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
Quote from: jomni on December 07, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
Wow Nefaro is thinking out of the box. I now remember CA making a Greek Mythology hack and slash called Spartan.
I've had this long-held belief that there is a curse upon digital Warhammer games. They all seem to be stuck in Dumbed-Down Hell.
Considering the whole universe came from tabletop games, I'd expect a thinking man's strategy PC game to arrive sometime but all I keep seeing is typical ADD and console-style titles. Perhaps Games Workshop is forcing the lowest common denominator, mass-market, 'Play & Throw Away' games on digital developers, but I'm hoping it's just a plain 'ole curse. :o Hopefully they don't screw up and cook up yet another RTS clone with an extra bell or whistle because I want.. nay, demand.. a deep cerebral Warhammer strategy game! The last decent thinker I played in that universe was Chaos Gate. :'(
Shadows of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen were pretty awesome back in the day.
Those were even older than Chaos Gate. Extremely linear too. :(
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on December 07, 2012, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 07, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
Quote from: jomni on December 07, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
Wow Nefaro is thinking out of the box. I now remember CA making a Greek Mythology hack and slash called Spartan.
I've had this long-held belief that there is a curse upon digital Warhammer games. They all seem to be stuck in Dumbed-Down Hell.
Considering the whole universe came from tabletop games, I'd expect a thinking man's strategy PC game to arrive sometime but all I keep seeing is typical ADD and console-style titles. Perhaps Games Workshop is forcing the lowest common denominator, mass-market, 'Play & Throw Away' games on digital developers, but I'm hoping it's just a plain 'ole curse. :o Hopefully they don't screw up and cook up yet another RTS clone with an extra bell or whistle because I want.. nay, demand.. a deep cerebral Warhammer strategy game! The last decent thinker I played in that universe was Chaos Gate. :'(
Yeah but Warhammer and 40K pretty much "dumbed down" the whole miniatures scene so why would you expect any difference on PC?
I'm not asking for Warhammer WitE or something. Hence my hopes that they use the Total War system. It's not groggy but has enough to keep the thinking man happy for a bit, and a bit of a sandbox element in the campaign. Warhammer tabletop may not be the most detailed but neither is the Total War engine. I just hope it doesn't end up being another Command & Conquer offshoot. ::)
Quote from: TheCommandTent on December 07, 2012, 06:46:50 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I'll have to see if the local library has any these books, if not I can use gift cards from Christmas.
going 40K then i recommend ravenor omnibus, eisenhorn omnibus, ultramarines 1st and 2nd omnibus, gaunts ghosts. only read two warhammer novels and that was Brunner the bounty hunter and matthias thulmann witch hunter
This thread has been very interesting.
I have like 6 Warhammer games in my steam library that I never installed. I'm installing one right now due to this thread, I think it's the Winter Storm one. I have one called Dark Crusade, too, that sounds interesting.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2012, 04:19:56 PM
Quote from: Martok on December 07, 2012, 04:10:39 PM
Don't feel bad, I'm a Warhammer virgin too.
Prepare to be Warhammer 40K gang raped, my friend.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-d_dJpmP4PW8%2FTsn_U-n3ZiI%2FAAAAAAAAAFA%2FULSkoNKFrvw%2Fs1600%2FNoise%252BMarine%252BCodex%252BV3.jpg&hash=7ed815fb88e3ea3647a7144214b2b35fab31f36d)
Yikes! I'm guessing he won't want to be my friend.
I have the whole Dawn of War II series waiting to be played as well.
Quote from: bob48 on December 07, 2012, 04:38:22 PM
^^Nice picture W8, although I still like the MK6 'Corvus' armour more than the MK7 'Eagle' armour.
I can see why. The MK6 Corvus armour helmet does have a medieval style to it.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 07, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
Quote from: jomni on December 07, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
Wow Nefaro is thinking out of the box. I now remember CA making a Greek Mythology hack and slash called Spartan.
I've had this long-held belief that there is a curse upon digital Warhammer games. They all seem to be stuck in Dumbed-Down Hell.
Considering the whole universe came from tabletop games, I'd expect a thinking man's strategy PC game to arrive sometime but all I keep seeing is typical ADD and console-style titles. Perhaps Games Workshop is forcing the lowest common denominator, mass-market, 'Play & Throw Away' games on digital developers, but I'm hoping it's just a plain 'ole curse. :o Hopefully they don't screw up and cook up yet another RTS clone with an extra bell or whistle because I want.. nay, demand.. a deep cerebral Warhammer strategy game! The last decent thinker I played in that universe was Chaos Gate. :'(
+1
I agree, we need a nice deep thinking mans game set in the Warhammer or 40K universe.
I'm not all that worried about this turning in to something completely out of left field. CA are known for Total War. I see no other reason for GW to sign with them except that they specifically wanted a Total War type game in the Warhammer universe. Now, there will probably be more of a focus on uber Hero type characters, but that also fits the world...and they need to do SOMETHING different, otherwise it just becomes 'Vanilla Fantasy Total War'.
[quote-Martok]Yikes! I'm guessing he won't want to be my friend.[/quote]
On the contrary! Followers of Slaanesh seek nothing more than experiencing the spreading of pain. He'd LOVE to enjoy your torment. And since that looks like a Noise Marine, he'll be filling your head with such loud, horrifying, demonic noise that you scream and eventually melt or something like that. So...enjoy? ;D
Quote from: Arctic Blast on December 08, 2012, 05:11:34 PM
QuoteYikes! I'm guessing he won't want to be my friend.
On the contrary! Followers of Slaanesh seek nothing more than experiencing the spreading of pain. He'd LOVE to enjoy your torment. And since that looks like a Noise Marine, he'll be filling your head with such loud, horrifying, demonic noise that you scream and eventually melt or something like that. So...enjoy? ;D
Slaan uses pop music as a weapon? :o
Quote from: Nefaro on December 08, 2012, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on December 08, 2012, 05:11:34 PM
QuoteYikes! I'm guessing he won't want to be my friend.
On the contrary! Followers of Slaanesh seek nothing more than experiencing the spreading of pain. He'd LOVE to enjoy your torment. And since that looks like a Noise Marine, he'll be filling your head with such loud, horrifying, demonic noise that you scream and eventually melt or something like that. So...enjoy? ;D
Slaan uses pop music as a weapon? :o
Only Noise Marines. ;D
Quote from: Toonces on December 08, 2012, 12:38:49 AM
This thread has been very interesting.
I have like 6 Warhammer games in my steam library that I never installed. I'm installing one right now due to this thread, I think it's the Winter Storm one. I have one called Dark Crusade, too, that sounds interesting.
Not much point installing anything less than
Dark Crusade, except for the campaigns in the previous two (which to some degree are like very extended tutorials for the skirmish/mp games. But they have neat stories and some gameplay mechanics not found in the 'regular' version of the game.)
While there are two more factions in
Soulstorm, general consensus is that they're rather buggy and broken, along with its campaign. Still, they're interesting and worth playing in skirm or mp when patched up (or modded with something like DowPRO. Although the latest version of that disabled the Sisters of Battle indefinitely until the modder could get around to polishing them better which is probably never going to happen now.)
Quote from: TheCommandTent on December 06, 2012, 10:10:44 PM
Ok now before you get your pitch forks and torches and perma-ban me from the forum please know that I was sheltered as a child....
I know I am taking my life into my hands here but here goes.
I know almost nothing about Warhammer or 40k for that matter........
Thats not to say I can't learn I just need some people to point me in the right direction instead of lynching me for my ignorance. :)
**runs and hides
I'm far from being up on fantasy Warhammer fluff, but here's a quick primer for 40K, in rough chronological order.
Necrons: Many millions of years ago, a fairly advanced ancient race learned their sun would go supernova and, not being a starfaring race yet, they needed to find some way to survive, so they made a deal with Lovecraftian Elder Gods to help transfer their consciousnesses into androids, with a promise to serve them afterward. The processes rendered them largely mindless, however, with a few exceptions. The gods used them to wipe out all life in the galaxy, after which the Necrons went into hibernation. Having been disturbed from their slumber, they're progressively awakening to repeat the genocide again. The units have an Egyptian undead flavor, and the lowest level combat troops are basically T800 model terminators. Very tough faction but expensive and slow to get going. In Dawn of War they only use energy, not the other vague "resource" (although they still capture points for various reasons).
Tyrannids: roughly based on the Xenomorphs from the Alien media properties, and the basis for Starcraft's Zerg faction. Possibly even older than the Necrons. They're an extra-galactic aggressively "evolutionary" menace that sweeps into a galaxy and finds new genetic material to incorporate for improving the overall horde. The most bestial faction in DoW (and introduced only in the DoW2 games, or with extensive modding of DoW1), although in official WH40K canon they have highly intelligent units also capable of using psychic magic and infiltrating a species by a process of progressive genetic modification. (These "genestealers" are also the main enemy in the
Space Hulk games.)
Eldar: the elves, duh. ;) One of the relatively 'good' factions. The most developed race long after the Necron genocide, who with a lot of justification regarded themselves as the undisputed masters of the galaxy. They invested heavily in developing pyschic technology and lived in a luxurious and decadent fashion; but some of them got into demon worship and in effect started creating the WH40K demons from primal Chaos. This resulted in the destruction of the Eldar homeworld and a progressive irruption of corrupting chaos into the universe. The surviving Eldar renounced their decadent ways and dedicated themselves to slowing down the unstoppable spread of chaos, but are still heavily invested in the same psychic powers that caused the problem to start with. (Their attitude of superiority hasn't changed much either, which hampers other races from working with them.) Now that the Necrons have started to waken, they feel like they've got to do something about this, too. The Eldar are dying off (partly because they gave up sex as being too much of a temptation to embrace chaos), and can't see any way to win, but they're determined to go down fighting. They're a very shooty, fast-moving, magic-y faction, with some impressive high technology. Elves in space. All DoW games feature them.
Dark Eldar: dark elves, dark duh. ;D Naturally have been around as long as the Eldar. These are descendants of the elves who decided that signing up with the chaos demons was a better idea than resisting them. Didn't work out so well for the Dark Eldar or anyone else. ;) They aren't a numerous faction, and act as space pirates. Again, a very shooty fast-moving magic faction (with even less melee power than the Eldar), with different "magic" mechanics in DoW compared to other factions, so they do play rather different. Only available so far in
Soulstorm.
The Imperium of Man, which is probably the second largest faction in the galaxy (after the Orks, not counting the extra-galactic Tyrannids), was formed after mankind started running across all the horrible threats in the galaxy, especially magical. The Emperor is the greatest "psyker" in human history, and lives immortally by having a thousand other human psychics sacrificed to him every day, so is worshiped like a god. He provides a lot of needed benefits for humanity to survive, but the result is a xenophobic threat to everyone else while humanity lives in a dictatorship. Consequently, the Imperium is rather like "What if the anti-Christ figured out a way to take over the Catholic Church and Imperial Rome?"--they're neutrals who think of themselves as the only good guys, and run by a highly opportunistic villain.
Mankind makes up three rather different playable factions in DoW.
Imperial Guard: mostly (lots and lots of) mere humans with mere laser rifles. Plus very good armored units like tanks and artillery, and static defenses. (And a smattering of Ogres and psychics.) In "real" WH40K they're far more diverse, but the DoW games do a good job of reducing them down to their essential inspiration: Russia in WW2. Affectionately teased by fans for being wimpy underdogs who manage to hold their own against monsters, demons and supermen by sheer refusal to give up. Introduced in
DoW: Winter Assault.
Space Marines: space-knights
very loosely based on the Space Marines from
Aliens, but with metric tons of upgrades. These are the elite troops of humanity, quite distinct from the Imperial Guard. Good at just about everything. Every other faction in DoW operates according to variations or alterations from their basic groundrules, so learning how to play them is usually the first thing to do. The Marines are genetically cloned supermen descended from original elite troops of the Emperor. In "real" WH40K they're very expensive and overpowered: the Imperial Guard may be the army, but each Marine
is an army! They're still expensive but not quite as overpowered in DoW.
Sisters of Battle: normal (although tough) human women (mostly, with a few men in support), not genetically cloned superwomen (probably because their testicles can't be harvested for growing new soldiers after they die. :o ) They make up for this by being just as heavily armored and armed as the Space Marines and twice as zealous in serving the Emperor. And by "zealous" I mean "they like to burn everyone and everything with fire", and they're only too ready to include Marine chapters at the faintest whiff of heresy. Militant space nuns. Only included so far in
Soulstorm.
Chaos Space Marines: demonic crazy evil space knights. Descended from Marine chapters who rebelled against the Emperor and swore allegiance to one of the chaos demons (although they have some normal human support troops, too). Somewhat more "magical" than the regular SMs, in that they can summon demons to help them; the chaotic nature of their corrupted armaments and armor make them a bit more brittle, too.
Orks: Orrrrcs innnn spaaaaace! The gung-ho goofy comic relief faction, lots of (ostensibly) tough cannon fodder. They're a relatively recent race, having been bred by genetically combining a plant (or fungus perhaps, I forget the details) with a primate species to try to create a perfect warrior. They're so numerous now as to give the Tyrannids a run for their money, but unlike the Tyrs they don't cooperate well with one another. So despite their large numbers they don't pose more than a normal danger of wiping out all other life in the galaxy. ;) Low-tech purveyors and cobblers from other species (mostly from humans, who are the most numerous 'regular' race in the galaxy--Tyrannids don't have tech per se). Surprisingly shooty, although more well known for chopping up opponents at close range. Not much magic, although their close relation to chaos grants them some inherent rough abilities (plus Ork shamen).
Tau: tall skinny hairless shooty mystical space dwarves. i.e. what if the dwarves were actually elves? ;D Far more invested in armor than the Eldar, but not as inherently fast. The Tau are a young up and coming faction and one of the more-or-less 'good guys' of WH40K. Although by 'good' I mean they like to socially brainwash people in Orwellian fashions into accepting a secular ethical contract of "for the common good"--far from a bad thing in itself, but all the factions have warts and this is the skeevy downside of the Tau. :P Still, they're big on teamwork and on selling the benefits of cooperation to other races, of whom they've picked up some notable but previously minor team members like the Kroog (who contribute strong melee skills). Expensive, and unlike the Space Marines their units aren't multi-purpose good at everything, but nicely effective. The Tau were introduced to DoW in
Dark Crusade.
whatever happened to dwarves and the Skaven?
does the lore explain where they went?
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 10, 2012, 01:32:03 PM
whatever happened to dwarves and the Skaven?
does the lore explain where they went?
Not sure. Maybe some later stuff in the Warhammer Fantasy canon gets in to where the Skaven and Vampires (though there ARE the Blood Angels...) and other races went.
Just a few corrections to the nerdness above :
Tau : The KrooT are basically their warrior caste, though there are numerous Tau warriors as well. Think Klingons, with an entire species essentially existing to prove their mettle in war, and you have the Kroot. Many humans are also part of the Tau collective.
Eldar/Dark Eldar : In fact, certain factions of the Eldar became so depraved and self obsessed that they created the 4th Chaos God, Slaanesh. His birth also opened rifts between the universe and the Warp, most notable the Eye of Terror, which serve as causeways between the Warp and normal space. Any ship traveling across the galaxy travels through the Warp, and psykers (think Psions/Psychic Warriors from different RPG systems) draw power from it to cast 'magic'. It is also the home of the Chaos demons. Somewhere within it resides what passes for a home for the Tyranids, though that has never been found. The Eldar actually have large portions of the Warp mapped out, which is why they've been able to travel it as efficiently as they can. And the Dark Eldar live within it as well.
The Eldar absolutely despise Chaos in all forms. They no longer breed, and are no longer the galaxy controlling force that they once were. Their goal now is to crush as much of the influence of Chaos as possible. The Dark Eldar began as the ones so depraved that they manifested Slaanesh. They serve another demon, bringing it souls to feed upon. In turn, it protects their location from Chaos, who would like to stomp them out of existence.
Space Marines : One other thing to note is that every single chapter of Marines is different from one another. When a recruit passes training, they're given the gene seed of the Chapter. Every Chapter's gene seed is different, so every Chapter is different. They all develop the same basic superhuman abilities (increased size and strength, improved vision, etc.), but they have differences. The Ultramarines are the most 'vanilla', and typically serve as the prime example of what a typical Space Marine 'should be'. The Space Wolves couldn't be more different if they tried. They have an incredibly accurate sense of smell and hearing, and can call on their 'inner wolf' to make them even stronger in melee combat (though it can take over and drive them in to being mindless berserkers if they allow it). Most Chapters are also based on historical forces. For example, the White Scars are pretty much a futuristic take on the Mongols.
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 10, 2012, 01:32:03 PM
whatever happened to dwarves and the Skaven?
does the lore explain where they went?
40K isn't a "sequel" to Fantasy. If anything, Fantasy just takes places on a primitive planet in the 40K universe.
Anyway, there were the Squats, who were Space-Dwarves. But Games Workshop took them out of the universe long time ago.
They also had the Slanns (kinda like the Slann from the Fantasy's lizardmen), and they're gone as well.
im not positive but im sure some stuff ive read from the 40k universe references FB stuff, particularly the Empire - could be wrong
but then again 40k is based around the emporer on Terra near the moon and mars, whereas the FB world definitely isnt earth
^^^Excellent job elucidating the nuances of the Warhammer universe Arctic. I'm still a noob but you helped fill in a lot of the gaps I had about the galaxy.
Quote from: W8taminute on December 10, 2012, 04:05:13 PM
^^^Excellent job elucidating the nuances of the Warhammer universe Arctic. I'm still a noob but you helped fill in a lot of the gaps I had about the galaxy.
Hell, I just added a little to what Jason already put up. Thank him. ;D
Yeah - nice stuff guys. Thanks.
Talking about Dwarves though, in an earlier iteration of 40K, I actually had a Dwarf Imperial Guard regiment, mainly plastic figs, but some nice metal Hearth Guard figs as well. As I remember, they we actually called 'Abhumans' rather than dwarfs, being from high-grav planets, and thus known as 'Stunties'.
Not very PC in this day and age I guess :)
Quote from: bob48 on December 10, 2012, 05:19:23 PM
Yeah - nice stuff guys. Thanks.
Talking about Dwarves though, in an earlier iteration of 40K, I actually had a Dwarf Imperial Guard regiment, mainly plastic figs, but some nice metal Hearth Guard figs as well. As I remember, they we actually called 'Abhumans' rather than dwarfs, being from high-grav planets, and thus known as 'Stunties'.
Not very PC in this day and age I guess :)
They were called "Squats."
^Yep. JH you are right of course. I had forgotten that - the old memory aint what it used to be.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee62%2Ftallarn_bucket%2Fother%2Fsquat2_lg.jpg&hash=2b85e013986a2f964d4cde99899c9d8440599b4f)
Excellent! - brings back memories of some good 40K games. Thanks for posting that JH.
Thanks for all the great info guys. I've got lots of reading and learning to do.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on December 10, 2012, 02:05:27 PM
Just a few corrections to the nerdness above :
Well, not so much corrections as fleshing out details. :) Thanks though!
While it's true that in "real" WH40K the different Space Marine chapters have different characteristics, that isn't true in DoW1 (aside from special "realism" mods). Not sure about DoW2, but my impression is that there isn't a lot of variation there, either.
But yes, I ought to have mentioned that as a key difference between DoW (and most if not all WH40K games, of which there are surprisingly several ) and real WH40K.
As others mentioned, 40K isn't a sequel to Fantasy Warhammer but rather a reimagining. I'm honestly surprised Skaven (the ratmen) haven't been included somehow, but the Tyrannids aren't included in FWH, so eh.
The Skaven and Vampire factions are however included in
Blood Bowl, which is a whole other flavor of Warhammer awesomeness, the computer version of which is well worth investing in even when it's not on sale (although it usually is).
Wow, JH! I'd love to see THQ build a DoW faction out of those guys, even if they aren't active in contemporary WH40K canon anymore.
(Maybe they're who dig the tunnels between Imperial Guard bases? ;D After all, the Impys have always had Ogryn in DoW.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 10, 2012, 08:31:59 PM
The Skaven and Vampire factions are however included in Blood Bowl, which is a whole other flavor of Warhammer awesomeness, the computer version of which is well worth investing in even when it's not on sale (although it usually is).
Blood Bowl is based on Warhammer Fantasy races IIRC.
And what is the best DOW2 title(s) to own? I'm not much for typical RTS style so I've never picked up the first DOW series, and the second seems to be rather limited & linear in the single-player department. Is there a DOW2 setup that has
some pseudo-sandbox in it?
Quote from: Arctic Blast on December 10, 2012, 04:14:43 PM
Quote from: W8taminute on December 10, 2012, 04:05:13 PM
^^^Excellent job elucidating the nuances of the Warhammer universe Arctic. I'm still a noob but you helped fill in a lot of the gaps I had about the galaxy.
Hell, I just added a little to what Jason already put up. Thank him. ;D
Whoa! How could I have missed that? Jason you're the man. Nice summary. Copy pasted your guide plus Arctic's. Got some reading to do now. Thanks!
Oh, and one more thing:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwh40k.lexicanum.com%2Fmediawiki%2Fimages%2F2%2F28%2F1ksons.jpg&hash=71ef55d685c68e5c2438cf03e2bc8f723dbe0e08)
Quote from: Nefaro on December 10, 2012, 10:21:14 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 10, 2012, 08:31:59 PM
The Skaven and Vampire factions are however included in Blood Bowl, which is a whole other flavor of Warhammer awesomeness, the computer version of which is well worth investing in even when it's not on sale (although it usually is).
Blood Bowl is based on Warhammer Fantasy races IIRC.
Yes, but it plays very differently to WHFant and has its own fluff. In fact, I can't think of any good WHFant computer games since PS1 days (with Shadow of the Horned Rat and its sequel, although those were better on the PC--and even those were arguable considering their very clunky interface),
except for Blood Bowl, which isn't exactly the same thing.
(
Mark of Chaos tried to be a Warhammer Total War, but failed; I was rarely so disappointed in a game received as a birthday present. At least I didn't spend any of my own money on it... :-\ )
Quote from: Nefaro on December 10, 2012, 10:21:14 PMAnd what is the best DOW2 title(s) to own? I'm not much for typical RTS style so I've never picked up the first DOW series, and the second seems to be rather limited & linear in the single-player department. Is there a DOW2 setup that has some pseudo-sandbox in it?
Well, there are only three.
Retribution is the latest, and since THQ is now releasing "Complete" sets of DoW2 packaged similarly to their (truly) "Complete" set of DoW1, I'm guessing they're done with major expansions. There's a fairly linear campaign for all six factions but it's the same campaign for everyone with minor deviations. (To be fair that's true of
Dark Crusade and
Soulstorm, too, except their campaigns aren't nearly so linear. The first two DoW2 games have strong story-based campaigns like the original DoW1 and the first expansion
Winter Assault.) The skirmish/mp mode by all accounts still doesn't really play with base-building and expansions like DoW1 (I own the first two DoW2 games but have never been able to feasibly play them--which I expect to soon change now that my new Falcon is on the way. So I'm going by hearsay here.)
But none of the games have ever been about sandboxing really. The campaigns in DC and SS come closest, and despite lacking two interesting factions the DC game is overall more polished than SS (which was farmed out to a third party developer).
So I'd recommend Dark Crusade for the closest to a polished sandbox experience, but the real meat of any of the DoW1 games is their skirmish and multiplayer (despite interesting story campaigns for DoW1 and WH) and for that I guess I recommend Soulstorm, maybe with the latest DowPRO mod if you can find it. (Or a couple of iterations back before the mod dev disabled the Sisters of Battle until he could polish them better, which is probably never going to happen now.)
DoW1 is one of the games I would gift to someone who wants to learn RTS but needs easing into it, along with Battle for Middle Earth and Kohan2, all three of which were released at about the same time, are nicely polished with bling, and feature details making management and operation easier. (That's true about Kohan1, too, but it doesn't look as nice. Also it quickly gets punishingly hard.)
Blood Bowl is set in the Warhammer universe??
Quote from: Gusington on December 11, 2012, 11:25:56 AM
Blood Bowl is set in the Warhammer universe??
aw c'mon Gus!!!!! ::)
:P :P
I've openly admittedly my n00bile ways in Warhammer!
Talking of Blood Bowl, Geek.....(nudge, nudge) :)
youre right sir - how you fixed this weekend?
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 11, 2012, 08:53:39 AM
Well, there are only three. Retribution is the latest, and since THQ is now releasing "Complete" sets of DoW2 packaged similarly to their (truly) "Complete" set of DoW1, I'm guessing they're done with major expansions. There's a fairly linear campaign for all six factions but it's the same campaign for everyone with minor deviations. (To be fair that's true of Dark Crusade and Soulstorm, too, except their campaigns aren't nearly so linear. The first two DoW2 games have strong story-based campaigns like the original DoW1 and the first expansion Winter Assault.) The skirmish/mp mode by all accounts still doesn't really play with base-building and expansions like DoW1 (I own the first two DoW2 games but have never been able to feasibly play them--which I expect to soon change now that my new Falcon is on the way. So I'm going by hearsay here.)
But none of the games have ever been about sandboxing really. The campaigns in DC and SS come closest, and despite lacking two interesting factions the DC game is overall more polished than SS (which was farmed out to a third party developer).
So I'd recommend Dark Crusade for the closest to a polished sandbox experience, but the real meat of any of the DoW1 games is their skirmish and multiplayer (despite interesting story campaigns for DoW1 and WH) and for that I guess I recommend Soulstorm, maybe with the latest DowPRO mod if you can find it. (Or a couple of iterations back before the mod dev disabled the Sisters of Battle until he could polish them better, which is probably never going to happen now.)
DoW1 is one of the games I would gift to someone who wants to learn RTS but needs easing into it, along with Battle for Middle Earth and Kohan2, all three of which were released at about the same time, are nicely polished with bling, and feature details making management and operation easier. (That's true about Kohan1, too, but it doesn't look as nice. Also it quickly gets punishingly hard.)
Thanks for the rundown on the
Dawn Of War series. I suppose that I'd probably ease into it with some of the first ones, although it'd probably just be a short foray with Dark Crusade, if I do at all. I'd much rather see the Total War style thing happen but I may get an itch, despite my general avoidance of the "classic" RTS gameplay. I've not played WH40K since about 1999-2000 so I may give in.
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 11, 2012, 07:13:28 PM
youre right sir - how you fixed this weekend?
I may be able to fit you in somewhere with my Warlock schedule. :D
I need to make sure MetalDog keeps the creatures from the underworld running wild - in other words, away from me (great job so far MD!)
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 11, 2012, 07:13:28 PM
youre right sir - how you fixed this weekend?
I may be able to fit you in somewhere with my Warlock schedule. :D
I need to make sure MetalDog keeps the creatures from the underworld running wild - in other words, away from me (great job so far MD!)
Thanks, bob. I'll keep doing my best.
Sorry - I double posted there. Twitchy mouse finger!