I always enjoyed complex flight sims, however I missed both Falcon 3 and 4. I had no computer when Falcon 3.0 came out, and when I did I had forgotten about it because it was long gone from store shelves. When Falcon 4.0 came out my computer was too wimpy to run it. Most of my button mashing experience came from X-Plane, MS Flight Simulator, and various other sims that came and went.
I decided to jump back in with DCS: Blackshark...and was overwhelmed. Refusing to play the game on "Game" I just gave up.
Then I purchased DCS: A10 on sale the other day. I have a fresh attitude now. I'm playing on full flight realism, but on game avionics. I figure its better to learn what I need to learn first, then learn it...if that makes sense. The list of key commands are so exhaustive, I first want to know what the important things to learn are...then I can move on to realistic avionics.
I took the A10 up just for a 'check ride' and it was great fun. Having buttons clearly marked in English helps quite a bit. I tried for hours and hours to figure out the trim mechanic on Blackshark...but never could stay in the air for long. The traditional fixed wing A10 is what I know.
So I'm going to give it a try, I'll try to update as time goes on. I hope to get Flaming Cliffs 3 when it is released, so I can have some carrier ops.
However...I can't help but think of how amazing a Vietnam campaign would be with DCS's realism. Thuds down Route Pak 6....wow...
I find BMS Falcon FAR easier to play than DCS-A10. Now, I have a ton of years invested in Falcon 4 so I'm sure that helps, but the F-16 is just far more intuitive than the A-10 IMHO.
You should consider it now, before the graphics in DCS spoil you.
I'm up against a similar wall with Black Shark. I can't wait to dive in and play but there's so much reading to be done first, and I have less time now than I did when Falcon 4 came out. I'm determined to do it though; I even went and found my stick, and cleared enough space on my desk to use it! Now that's determination!
The only way to master the Blackshark is to figure out the trim system. Like you can manually trim it, or there's a button you can press that auto-trims the controls to hold whatever position they're in the moment you hit the button. You have to figure out how to make that work for you or the helo is impossible to fly.
I never could quite get the hang of it, and I really tried.
Quote from: republic on January 01, 2013, 10:28:11 AM
I decided to jump back in with DCS: Blackshark...and was overwhelmed. Refusing to play the game on "Game" I just gave up.
Then I purchased DCS: A10 on sale the other day. I have a fresh attitude now. I'm playing on full flight realism, but on game avionics. ..
That's how you need to fly DCS Black Shark, too. At least, I believe the avionics is the one to lower. Mainly because a number of people (myself included) just can't get the screwy computer-assisted "trim" (aka auto-leveller) to adjust from one setting to another properly without it tossing the helo all over the place. I've tried doing it numerous times, using all the pro tips I could find, but I just can't get the damn thing to be keep the proper setting past the first one. I'm still not sure what causes the damn thing to leap to some
other setting than where I let off, every damn time, but it makes me wonder if it's something to do with my joystick drivers.. I have no idea. *shrug*
So after I nullified that damn annoying thing, it was great fun. Well.. other than the collective 'sticking' a bit too much to the neutral position, and having to be jammed a little further to get it to move, but that's a small price to pay. I'd still rather not have the easier collective controls at the same time, but at least the computer Trimmer is automated now so that I don't have to jockey the collective, and hold the joystick perfectly still, for long trips.
Big leap in enjoyment after avoiding the 'realistic' trimmer! After you get past the screwy "Auto-Timmer" issue, the only big button-pushing series you need to learn is your weapon systems arming & use, and the start-up procedures only if you want to do those. Oh.. and how to work the flare dispenser, which isn't a big deal.
Nefaro, it sounds like you need to remove the deadzone in your controller settings. I'm sure I read that on the Eagle Dynamics website somewhere.
Yeah, I've heard nasty things about the trim, but if you can get it to work properly it does sound a lot better than the trims I'm used to, i.e. twiddling a knob, waiting for the aircraft to respond, easing off a bit of pressure on the stick, twiddling the knob again, and so on until it's trimmed. I hate doing that.
Apparently with the Black Shark's trim you get 0.5 seconds from commanding the trim in which to centre your stick, and it should "just work". That doesn't sound like long enough to me, and sure enough, there's an .ini file you can edit to lengthen that a bit. It does come with caveats though, but...well, I'll wait and see how it is.
I got the Blackshark trim figured out after a few weeks of frustration but I could never get all the systems to work together at once. If I wanted to use the ShkVar missile thingie, I had to do it from a dead hover or I'd never get the stupid wire sight to acquire properly before the target drifted out of view.
If I stayed in a hover, even concealed and at a good stand off range, I still ended up getting shot down. If I tried to keep moving, I couldn't fly and target at the same time and I'd end up crashing into something or missing my shot.
I ended up giving up on the sim.
I've had A-10 on my PC for months now and never, ever even boot it up.
Maybe someday but I doubt it. I just don't have the patience that I once did to take the time to learn a new sim.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on January 01, 2013, 02:35:19 PM
Nefaro, it sounds like you need to remove the deadzone in your controller settings. I'm sure I read that on the Eagle Dynamics website somewhere.
Perhaps that's the problem, then. My cheapie joystick, even though I don't need to put
much dead space in it. Mostly so I can keep my hand on the stick without having to worry about tiny accidental movements.
Sounds more like they didn't account for dead zone in the Trim programming. :-[
On Blackshark, I can get the trim to cooperate about 1 time in 10. I think that trim mechanism is the point to where realism intrudes too much on fun, at least for me. I'll try it with the avionics backed off a bit, once I get going with A10.
My main reason for getting A10 was to get my feel for DCS so that once Flaming Cliffs 3 is released, I'll be able to play with other folks online.
@Toonces
I've tried BMS once but didn't stick with it. I need to give it another try. Falcon has that amazing campaign that has yet to be matched.
Quote from: republic on January 01, 2013, 03:07:42 PM
Falcon has that amazing campaign that has yet to be matched.
That's the reason it's taken me so long to finally buy another sim; going from Falcon's amazing dynamic campaign to chained missions is going to feel like a massive step backwards. :(
I seem to get registered at BMS. First my normal forum name of "Republic" is blacklisted, and after picking a new one I've been waiting on my confirmation email for about 5 hours. :\
Do you have the original Falcon 4.0 disk? You need that to install BMS.
Less mission variety in A10. I stopped playing it already. Looking to go back to falcon.
I used to have the falcon.exe, I'll have to look it up again. I tried BMS a long time ago, but it was summertime and I didn't have the time to devote to it and forgot all about it. Still haven't gotten my confirmation email :\
Edit: Actually they sent my confirmation mail right away. It was my stupid nested email address chain. I have dummy accounts that feed to actual accounts, that all forward back to my main email account. The confirmation email made it through one account but got bogged down in the middle. Maybe I'm overprotecting myself :)
I've nothing to add other than to compliment you on the thread title.
lol thank you tgb, I have very eclectic tastes...and it seemed fitting. :)
just more proof that the Apache is the better helo.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 01, 2013, 11:40:08 PM
just more proof that the Apache is the better helo.
Certainly.
As SDR mentioned, it's a pain in the ass getting a target lock with the purely visual targeting system on the Black Shark when moving. Despite the helmet-mounted sight to assist, you still have to attempt targeting something that's moving through your view and
then fine-tune your acquisition brackets even after that. With an Apache you can just pop on the radar and choose your target - much faster & easier. ;D The apache also has a proper turret for it's gun, and a bit wider range of armaments available.
But I don't mind slumming it with lower-tech Russian equipment; got it's own charm. I still can't make high speed missile attacks, either, but have to find cover and do pop-up or sideslip attacks in the Black Shark.
I've not fired up BS in awhile because I think it was prompting me to update to the new 'world' software that DCS has integrated everything into. I was suspicious about it turning into a pain in the ass (and/or borking one of my activation licenses) in the process so have put it off.
I need to stop reading this thread; it's putting me off trying Black Shark! :(
Quote from: Huw the Poo on January 02, 2013, 04:21:21 PM
I need to stop reading this thread; it's putting me off trying Black Shark! :(
It can be challenging but still very fun.
I'm currently reading Dan Hampton's "Viper Pilot: The Autobiography of One of America's Most Decorated Combat Pilots" and its really making me want to learn Falcon BMS...
Well I got BMS up and running and took my check ride in the F-16..and I quickly realized the keyboard layout map located in the BMS folder was not accurate. So I've found a friendlier keymap, printed it out, and placed it in my Study Flight Sim Cheat Folder (SFSCF). It seems fitting to give my materials complicated acronyms. SFSCF version 1.0 section 1 pages 1 & 2 (henceforth known as SFSCF 1.0.1.1-2) are my keymaps for BMS Falcon.
SFSCF 1.0.2.1-2 will have my DCS keymaps.
SFSCF 1.0.3+ is Tango Uniform and ETA is TBD
I applaud your seriousness in learning these sims.
I played a lot of Falcon 3.0 and 4.0 in my day, but I'm a prop head at heart, and my small brain can only handle so much complexity. That's why Rise of Flight is perfect for me.
Republic,
I don't know what HOTAS you are using, but if you have the CH stick/throttle/pedals there is an excellent profile by Rogue that I use. Let me know if you need more guidance or a link...
Toonces I'm using a Saitek X52, that really needs to be replaced. The dual trigger button has a broke button, so it is now a single trigger, and I lost the lower pinky button to my failed attempt to repair the trigger button. :)
I keep considering a CH set...but I don't really have the room to leave the equipment out for extended periods so I prefer a twisty rudder. I'll probably save up for another Saitek HOTAS this year.
Quote from: Nefaro on January 02, 2013, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: Huw the Poo on January 02, 2013, 04:21:21 PM
I need to stop reading this thread; it's putting me off trying Black Shark! :(
It can be challenging but still very fun.
I'll second that. I'd even go so far as to call Blackshark the most fun I've ever had with a sim.
A couple of tips for increasing your 'pilot' life expectancy and enjoyment
-head tracker = MUST
-I recommend mapping the
trimmer reset button to your HOTAS, but only use in emergencies
-staying out of range of enemy weapons should be
priority #1Learning the trimming system puts a real load on the brain, adding to the challenge of mastering other systems. The armaments aren't all that difficult to employ one you get past fighting with the avionics. Now that I'm comfortable with working the trim I have few problems with coming to a hover.
I'm having some trouble with the A-10, I can't get the Maverick to power up. I've followed the directions (I think). It says "Not SOI" and when I press and hold the coolie as the manual says...nothing happens. I can set SOI on the laser pod and it works fine, but not the Maverick. Any ideas?
Did you turn on the maverick on the MAV page?
Instructions are in page 566 of the manual.
Thanks Jomni, I wasn't giving the missile long enough to align. I'm finding A-10 much easier to get into than Blackshark. Once I get the A-10 down, I plan to try BMS Falcon.
Yeah I usually turn on the Maverick after takeoff and not before the attack. There's no side effects in turning it on early.
Can anyone recommend a good DCS server to fly on? I find I learn games best playing against/with other humans. I've joined a couple. I had some computer issues so I never got off the ground in the first few. Nothing more irritating that losing your internet connection right after the start up procedure...3 times in a row.
I finally got aloft tonight, but the server was hardcore and I got lost. Even following the waypoints I saw nothing to shoot. I eventually started flight towards the RWR hits I was getting...even saw some contrails of high fliers but...never got any action. I alt tabbed to check the manual for something and it disconnected me.
I joined another game that had it where you could see everything on the map, which is handy for a newbie. I alt tabbed during startup to read my email...and discovered that I guess DCS doesn't like you to do that...and I was booted again.
Quote from: jomni on January 06, 2013, 09:22:41 PM
Yeah I usually turn on the Maverick after takeoff and not before the attack. There's no side effects in turning it on early.
Not in the sim (yet), no. But in real life the seeker head may overheat if turned on too long. :)
Ah you're right. But not implemented in the game as you said.
I had a great sortie last night. I forget which server I was on, but I took off a little behind a strike group, I couldn't get my loadout setup the way i wanted it. Anyhow I arrived late so waypoints 1 and 2 were already clear of hostiles. I got to waypoint 3, was lined up for a good drop and then 'plink'. I took a golden BB to the computer. I dropped blind and missed, and then limped home.
It was fun though, especially navigating by the map and terrain. I should have gotten on voice coms, next time I will. If for anything to help with ATC. I nearly got ran over twice by a couple of F-15 drivers. :)
They've been doing some amazing stuff over at BMS. I'm going to try to get the ole HOTAS hooked up again to night and break it out. I'll post some pictures.
I had a good time last night flying over at Eno's Firehouse server. They use SimHQ's Teamspeak server. I managed to bag 2 "red" A-10's. One was an assist, the other I got him with my last sidewinder and wounded him, then sliced his wing off with the gun. BRRRRRRRRRRT!
I attacked a convoy with Mavericks and took out most of the supply trucks and a BTR-80 that was escorting
I need to start recording video with fraps, because the action is way too intense to grab screenshots. :\ That plus I'm writing down as I fly what I need to map to my HOTAS and where lol
Quote from: republic on January 09, 2013, 08:01:08 AM
That plus I'm writing down as I fly what I need to map to my HOTAS and where lol
Remapping keys, and then getting them memorized, is one of the big headaches that keeps me from playing flight sims more often. I feel like I'm tweaking the key & joy settings more than playing the game, for quite some time. :-[
Really a big headache. Especially in Flaming Cliffs. That's why I learn how to manipulate the on-screen cockpit as much as possible. So far, Falcon has better default mapping.
Even simple sims like IL 2 and ROF can have complicated key mappings.
Doesn't DCS A-10 record your mission automatically. There's an option to view it after a mission. (But I think it does not record everything. )
You know it occurs to me that a touch screen monitor would be great for a DCS sim. Just reach up and press what I need.
However, I have decided to start saving my pennies for a TrackIR. It has become a necessity. I need that hat switch for additional functions rather than having to use it to look around.
Yes. There's an iPad app that does it but I can't seem to figure it out.
Android too... the App I think is called Air Display.. then you install TouchBuddy on your PC. .and display it on your tablet... if you search for it on Youtube you'll find it...
Sounds great. I already have air display used with FSX. Runs great with dockable windows. Let me tinker with touch buddy.
Finally downloaded BMS. Controls are an unintuitive mess compared to Falcon 4 AF. Gonna spend a lot of time figuring this out.
I'm having the same trouble Jomni. DCS is complex but I can wrap my head around it. BMS is rough...and on top of that there are areas where the age of the underlying engine really show.
Falcon AF keys mapping is petty much straight forward and practically zero config in my case. Now I wonder how I'll replicate that in BMS (since ive been flying AF for years). I'm thinking a lot of people have those full-blown HOTAS that is similar to the real thing. Must be a necessity for full enjoyment. But I have a simple HOTAS. Same story in DCS. :(
Ahhhh....I see. I have the full CH HOTAS set up. I didn't even notice a change in keys because I have a key file that I load that overrides the stock BMS keyfile.
I don't know how you play these games without a HOTAS. I wouldn't even bother. I'd stick to IL-2 or RoF, or other games that have a lot less button pushing.
I fly with the thrustmaster hotas x
Quote from: Toonces on January 11, 2013, 10:43:18 PM
I don't know how you play these games without a HOTAS.
All I've ever had is my trusty Saitek Cyborg Evo:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tomshardware.com%2Fus%2F2003%2F10%2F24%2Fannual_review%2Fsaitekevo1.jpg&hash=57bd1ee9c83d1c0372c239b78ae2e797640e0326)
I don't know why it even exists. It's unsuitable for arcade games but nowhere near good enough for flight sims. I've made do with it though. The worst thing about it is having the throttle at the base, which means my left hand has to move from the mouse or keyboard to the throttle every time I need to change it. Also, during intense flying actions the base frequently tips up off the table while I'm thrashing the stick around. It's a miracle I'm ever able to fly at all!
I used that one before. Good enough for old school titles.
Actually, to be fair it's perfect for space sims which are generally halfway between frenetic arcade games and the much more sedate modern flight sim.
Quote from: jomni on January 10, 2013, 09:59:23 PM
Sounds great. I already have air display used with FSX. Runs great with dockable windows. Let me tinker with touch buddy.
Let me know how it is, I've been tempted but haven't taken the plunge..
What do you do with FSX, open a panel and move it to your tablet?
Huw, there's no way something like that would work for Falcon, or DCS:A-10. Sure you can probably get away with it, but there is so much sensor management that you need to do, properly at your fingertips, that a stick like that just doesn't cut it.
IMO of course. KA-50 and maybe FC2 have a little less HOTAS demand.
Quote from: Toonces on January 12, 2013, 01:41:05 PM
Huw, there's no way something like that would work for Falcon, or DCS:A-10.
Oh, I can play Falcon with it. It's undoubtedly a lot more difficult than it would otherwise be, but it's possible. I maximise the use of keyboard shortcuts!
Quote from: Tuna on January 12, 2013, 09:14:54 AM
Quote from: jomni on January 10, 2013, 09:59:23 PM
Sounds great. I already have air display used with FSX. Runs great with dockable windows. Let me tinker with touch buddy.
Let me know how it is, I've been tempted but haven't taken the plunge..
What do you do with FSX, open a panel and move it to your tablet?
Yeah. That's exactly what you do. Open an FSX panel. Undock the window. Then drag to your tablet. Update: I can't seem to connect successfully anymore after the update. :(
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Lp1tP_76vlQ/T92gWDgCb4I/AAAAAAAADII/ev5FSostpj8/s1127/12+-+1)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9z5oWMttWnI/T92gWGT23iI/AAAAAAAADIQ/kd683m4qomk/s845/12+-+2)
And you can see my sucky HOTAS in the background. I'll probably stick with Falcon AF until I get a real F-16 HOTAS then move on to BMS.
Is Falcon Allied Force easier to learn than BMS? I'm having a heck of a time... DCS: A-10 has actually been pretty straightforward.
AF is a bit easier. Automated SOI switiching and radio tuning. But graphics is very dated.
The A-10 is still a pretty simple aircraft as it does not have radar.
Well, guess what? I dug around and found the original Falcon 4 key config in the BMS install. It's all a matter of just loading it.
Well my A-10 journey is going well. I can do pretty much everything I need to do. Things that were once Greek are becoming routine. I'm hoping to try the Blackshark next. Tonight I watched a skilled pilot in a Blackshark take out an armored column that stopped me in my tracks several times.
The oddest thing has been my experience with the study sim community. Not always the friendliest and most welcoming of folks...
Yes there are die hard fanatics, armchair "experts", realism freaks... Not really different with wargamers.
Quote from: republic on January 17, 2013, 09:56:15 PM
The oddest thing has been my experience with the study sim community. Not always the friendliest and most welcoming of folks...
Lol, you're right here. Often the next dude who has ever taken control of a Cessna thinks he is knowing-all about flightsimming, it's flaws in relation to real life flying and yes.. weapons systems being modelled.
It makes for some exhausting discussions sometimes, but on the other hand, it also shows the passion people have for their hobby. While often not very correct, they do add a lot of interesting topics to the boards. :)
Just don't let yourself get de-motivated to enjoy your own journey in the combat flightsim world.
Other than that it's pretty common forum fare; haters, trolls, peacekeepers, you all find them there as much as on any gaming forums/site.
It is strange, for a hobby that I can't imagine is growing significantly...we should all stick together. If your at the point where you can operate the A-10 or Blackshark...you've got to be somewhat dedicated to the hobby already and should get some sort of 'this guy might be alright'.
I've experienced downright rudeness on Teamspeak. I'm too old for this "lets pick on the new guy" attitude. I had one encounter where they didn't realize I was on the TS server...
I've found some nice folks too, but unfortunately for every "Howdy neighbor" I'm finding two "Get off my lawn!"s
I do recognise this 'elitism' and I detest it myself.
You're right, as the community already is rather small and on top of that serious sims have a steep learning curve, people should welcome each new member with open arms.
But there sometimes seems to be some kind of elitist feeling around that is tied to spitting on the sim-crowd by people who have experience with real aircraft, however limited that experience may be. Hence my remark above, but you know what? This attitude is far more common in the general parts of the community like open or general purpose forums and on open servers.
The more dedicated locations (those hosted by serious/mature wings for example) are generally a much more friendly place, let alone much more mature and especially helpful towards new members.
I think I've got the A-10 pretty well under control. I have also gotten to the point where I can fly and fight in the Ka-50 Black Shark...though I need to learn the avionics.
Still looking for a friendly place to fly though...
DCS MiG-21 preview.
http://youtu.be/HCnBIf9Gt44
I think I'd pay $100 if they'd make a dynamic campaign module for DCS... I find myself mainly playing multiplayer because each session is like a mini dynamic campaign.
ED has stated several times that something like a Dynamic Campaign module is going to have to be a 3rd party effort. They have no ambition to make such a thing themselves.
Instead they want to broaden the scope of the mission editor and improve user friendlyness and scripting functions.
ED believes a good heavily scripted mission gives a better experience than a dynamicly generated one.
They rather see a branching campaign (several scripted missions tied together into a campaign where the next mission is dependant on the outcome of the previous one; already possible).
That's the reason why I still play Falcon. :)
The branching campaign is good and less frustrating. Because if you fail, you can just replay the mission. Most of the time, the front line does not move after a failed mission in DCS... Sometimes it might revert to a previous mission's state.
But nothing beats the feeling of being involved in a full dynamic air war. ;D
Both methods have their merits.
I agree.
The way Falcon has its campaign is pretty awesome, however flawed it may be (the ground war still has many issues for example, even in BMS). To be really fair, I think its more the impression of a fully developing war that Falcon manages to pull off so well.
The facts are that a lot of things in its dynamic campaign really don't work that well. ;)
Still I agree that the experience is pretty awesome no less.
But in theory, you should be able to create a very believable experience in DCS as well.
In one of the later builds they have added a very interesting feature; warehouses.
For every airbase you will be able to define an inventory (not functional yet, though the menu is in already) and you will be able to define a hub an spoke system of supply lines.
FOB's are in as well and ground forces can now 'capture' airbases and territory (by means of area boxes in case of territory).
It's not clear wether the inventory of airbases can be restocked by means of flights automatically, but sure thing you can make a script tied to a flight that triggers this.
Once the system works, you would be able to create huge missions with dynamically moving frontlines.
Place that on a DS and you have a multiplayer system not unlike that of Falcon's campaign.
It will be a crapload of work for the mission creators, but it is possible.
But, so far with all things ED; the ambition is there, but the time they need to push things out the door is what holds people back.
If they would allow some kind of in mission save, a huge dynamic "mission" would be exactly what I'd want.
So last night I discovered I've been flying the Blackshark completely wrong for the past 2 years. Wow...I feel like a dunce. I didn't realize the trim was like an autopilot, you have to press the trim button to change direction and speed, then release trim to maintain. I had originally thought that trim just...trimmed.
:o
I decided to finally try and tackle A-10C in sim mode but I'm already stymied. I cannot get the game to recognize the mini-stick on my CH throttle at all. I want to use the thing for the slew controls on the MFDs but no matter how I try to set up a profile in-game or via the CH control manager, I cannot get it to recognize the mini-stick.
Isnt the ministick an Axis?
If so you need to assign it in the Axis Controls menu, not the normal keypresses one. Use the dropdown filter in the topleft of the menu.
Yes, it should be an axis but I can't get the game to recognize it. I've tried setting the mini stick as a seperate device with the CH control manager but I still can't get the game to see it. There is a list of dozens of acronyms in the axis assignment tab but the meanings aren't clear. ARX-JOY or FRX-JOY or any of the other choices may indeed be the mini stick axis but I have no idea which one it might be.
You might have to assign the ministick axis directions to key presses in the CH software, then maps the keys in DCS. That is how you have to do the X52 ministick anyhow.
Thanks. I got it sorted. It's weird but you have to open up the CH Control Manager, then open up DCS while control manager is still running. Then you can get DCS to respond and once you've mapped everything, you can save it to a config file.