"On Monday February 27th, 2012, WikiLeaks began publishing The Global Intelligence Files, over five million e-mails from the Texas headquartered "global intelligence" company Stratfor. The e-mails date between July 2004 and late December 2011. They reveal the inner workings of a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations, such as Bhopal's Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the US Department of Homeland Security, the US Marines and the US Defence Intelligence Agency. The emails show Stratfor's web of informers, pay-off structure, payment laundering techniques and psychological methods."
http://wikileaks.org/
The peoples intelligence agency has a load more stuff out today ;D
Gloat much?
I must confess that I have mixed feelings about this kind of thing. In days of yore responsible editors and reporters would
try to strike a balance between the public's need to know about corporate and governmental misdeeds and the need for
temporary or long term silence for the public good. Now that mainstream news is just a commodity and a form of bread
and circuses and the only way these misdeeds get into the light is by this kind of data carpet bombing that frequently
descends into nothing more than information hooliganism. I miss the Edward R Murrows and the Ben Bradleys. They've
all been replaced by Game Show producers and Jerry Springer.
"information hooliganism" love it, i may have to steal that for future conversations
I just don't get it...do you even realize what you're all excited about? And if you do, why are you so flippin' happy about it?
Yes, Stratfor is a publisher and analyzer of global geopolitical information, ie. intelligence, and its clients include government agencies, military officials and corporations, most of which are using the information to protect themselves from and/or combat global terrorists, like the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and your friends in Iran. SO I ask you again, why is this such a great thing?
The leaked information was stolen from Stratfor by the "loose-knit hacker group Anonymous" who also stole credit card information and other confidential personal information of subscribers. I presume you also support this kind of criminal activity, Okult?
...or are you once again, really just a disinterested casual observer looking to share information, like you were when you mistakenly supported the notion that Iran should be armed with nuclear weapons?
I knew it wouldn't take long for you to get under my skin here.
Its a current event ? but yes I love wikileaks and Anonymous (Anonymous is not a group rather an idea).
Both a big collective NO to our corprate merged state, data harvesting,war mongering, banker run, corrupt version of society. Iran is not even trying to make a bomb and even if it did so what, they dont try stop anyone else having them, hell every one should have atomic weapons. I see things not in a nationalist way, i.e is my country against your country. More in as the OWS people would say 99% vs 1%. Iran does not threaten me or tax me then tax what i buy or tax me to own a TV, it does not keep me under surveillance or monitor my communications. To me it is the west pushing for war i guess to get out of the economic deppresion. No dought when tentions are high enough there will be some flase flag to kick it of like a military ship being sunk or the like.
Dont mean to get under yer skin JH its just my humble opinion, and im just a peasant after all, my indvidual opinion counts for nowt in the grand games that are played =).
Quote from: 0kult13 on February 27, 2012, 08:09:05 AMIran is not even trying to make a bomb
by their own admission, they are trying to build one.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 27, 2012, 10:12:14 AM
Quote from: 0kult13 on February 27, 2012, 08:09:05 AMIran is not even trying to make a bomb
by their own admission, they are trying to build one.
According to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta "Are they [the Iranians] trying to develop a nuclear weapon? No. But we know that they're trying to develop a nuclear capability. And that's what concerns us."
But even if they did so what, even if they had 10, nada not against western powers who have 100's not to mention sat based weapons. Their best weapon is oil and not using the dollar or euro. That said im sure there will be a war with a few nukes for good meausre, but thats a bisons bs corner type thread =).
QuoteThe leaked information was stolen from Stratfor by the "loose-knit hacker group Anonymous" who also stole credit card information and other confidential personal information of subscribers.
This is all I needed to know to form a negative opinion of the action.
Anonymous was sorta a fun and games group until they started to get malicious for the sake of malice.
To my eyes they are rapidly descending into a bunch of anarchists with no other goal than to watch themselves in the headlines.
Lately a number of their moves have moved them from grey hat hackers to black hat, and at that point they become problems for our collective security.
You love Wikileaks eh? Yeah it's great how they put tens of thousands of lives in danger every time they do something like this.
Okult if you're looking to form a fan club here it's not working.
At least I got a shiny new sig line from this thread though.
Quote from: Gusington on February 27, 2012, 02:46:09 PM
You love Wikileaks eh? Yeah it's great how they put tens of thousands of lives in danger every time they do something like this.
Okult if you're looking to form a fan club here it's not working.
At least I got a shiny new sig line from this thread though.
I dont know about that Gusington, So far we have 2 admins and 3 mods in on this thread covering some very controversial topics and everyone is putting their views down in a civil manner. Im sure i could having you guys wearing V masks given enough time :o
Congrats, you're the first and only guy out of 100+ on my list 'to watch' list.
Quote from: LongBlade on February 27, 2012, 01:07:44 PM
Anonymous was sorta a fun and games group until they started to get malicious for the sake of malice.
When they hit Monsanto, Monsanto gets irritated, fixes the problem and moves on. When they hit the CC and personal info of regular individuals - that causes irreparable damage and cheapens their image as advocates of free information flow.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 27, 2012, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on February 27, 2012, 01:07:44 PM
Anonymous was sorta a fun and games group until they started to get malicious for the sake of malice.
When they hit Monsanto, Monsanto gets irritated, fixes the problem and moves on.
One could consider hitting a company as a grey hat hacker approach. They should have told them privately they had security holes (white hat), but instead they made it public. Not nice, but it did indeed cause them to fix the problem (grey hat).
When they get destructive, then it's malicious and wrong.
QuoteWhen they get destructive, then it's malicious and wrong.
One could say the same thing about Monsanto... ;)
What I mean was, they shouldn't claim to be like Robin Hood, but then mug the rich AND the poor. That just makes them like hoods.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.abovetopsecret.com%2Ffiles%2Fimg%2Fye4ee95646.jpg&hash=4945064a7096a286ae43c98cabbe4d3c5d7ca94c)
^ here's your difference:
Assange: exposes stolen private information that was gathered by hackers illegally breaking into accounts
Zuckerberg: exposes information you have authorized to provide in return for a service for which you pay no money
One is legal, one is not.
One is a villain because he broke the law.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 28, 2012, 07:04:41 AM
^ here's your difference:
Assange: exposes stolen private information that was gathered by hackers illegally breaking into accounts
Don't forget, he also exposes classified information obtained through acts of high treason.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 28, 2012, 07:04:41 AM
One is a villain because he broke the law.
...and through his criminal activities, he risks the lives of thousands.
A crime exposed either legally or illegally is still a crime exposed, i believe the goldman sachs files are next. ;D
Of course classified information is exposed , would not be much of a leak site if it was not. Wikileaks are given data to leak they dont get it themselfs.
And what of the crimes exposed in the leaks why are they not investigated. A good example is climategate, where the scientist where caught falsifying data to back the need for a green tax and all the other nonsense elements of the governments where up to with global warming, or climate change as they call it now.
List the crimes exposed. Cite the specific act, the specific law they broke, and the specific person (by name!) who broke the law.
Not a law you *think* should be a law.
Not poor judgment.
Not some random "guys in ___ unit."
List the person's name, the act they took, and the law it broke.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 28, 2012, 08:24:09 AM
List the crimes exposed. Cite the specific act, the specific law they broke, and the specific person (by name!) who broke the law.
Not a law you *think* should be a law.
Not poor judgment.
Not some random "guys in ___ unit."
List the person's name, the act they took, and the law it broke.
Its stratfor dont think they organise in units as such, but i will look around for lists but they only leaked yesterday.
Quote from: 0kult13 on February 28, 2012, 08:38:07 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 28, 2012, 08:24:09 AM
List the crimes exposed. Cite the specific act, the specific law they broke, and the specific person (by name!) who broke the law.
Not a law you *think* should be a law.
Not poor judgment.
Not some random "guys in ___ unit."
List the person's name, the act they took, and the law it broke.
Its stratfor dont think they organise in units as such, but i will look around for lists but they only leaked yesterday.
Please do.
Not some random "guys in ___ unit."
ahh you mean from the iraq leak ages ago, well i can name one who was part of that, still to be convicted mind..
bradly maning 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division ;)
... still waiting ...
Its a tricky one, some of the examples googled dont fall into your rather stringent criteria and citing any of them here i think would be akin to a chicken floating into a samurai bar on a helium balloon. Short lived and messy.
Well, if by "stringent criteria" you mean "actually breaking the law" then I guess we're all on the same page.
You said both
Quote from: 0kult13 on February 28, 2012, 07:42:24 AMA crime exposed either legally or illegally is still a crime exposed
and
Quote from: 0kult13 on February 28, 2012, 07:42:24 AMAnd what of the crimes exposed in the leaks why are they not investigated.
I am challenging you to list the crimes exposed.
If there is a crime, it is because a specific law was broken.
Name the law, and name the person that broke the law.
If you cannot definitively say that "x" law was broken, by "v" person then you shouldn't be talking about crimes being exposed.
Assange published stolen classified information. That is a crime. There is some speculation that he paid for some of what he published. That is also a crime.
Zuckerberg did not steal information, and has not (AFAWK) committed any crimes. Neither did Stratfor. But I think we're all pretty sure Anonymous did in stealing private information from Stratfor.
So unless you're prepared to go to bat with the crimes you think were exposed, then spouting off-the-cuff quasi-radical talking points like "A crime exposed either legally or illegally is still a crime exposed" characterize you as someone with a lot of hot-air rhetoric, and very little grounding in reality with which to back it up.
^Okult's problem is that he is talking about corporate crime. He doesn't really care about the lives that have been jeopardize by the theft of classified government and military information.
Unfortunately for him, capitalism = corporate crime...so, in his world, anytime someone profits, it is at the detriment of somebody else and therefore, a crime has been committed. "Crime" is defined very loosely by Okult and his ilk, because they don't really care about, understand or abide by the actual "law."
"And what of the crimes exposed in the leaks why are they not investigated." granted worded wrong :-[ , exchange crimes for greedy corruption. I'm sure the shady goings on in stratfor will take time for a picture to emerge but it is the goldman sachs ones i look forward to.
"Unfortunately for him, capitalism = corporate crime...so, in his world, anytime someone profits it is at the detriment of somebody else and therefore, a crime has been committed." not true, i do share trade (hot tip energi oil) I love the ideal of capitalism.
But its the evil spread from fractional reserve banking, the twisted corrupt, to big to fail white shoe boys of global banking which buys the people who decide the actual law, that create wars to control whole populations through debt. The banksters who really do profit at the detriment of everybody else are the "crimes" i mean.
:o