Back in the day, I always knew my games would be out of date. Replaced by better graphics, higher resolutions, etc. However, I don't honestly see (quite literally since I wear glasses) any benefit for going higher than 1080p. I can honestly see myself playing a game like the DCS sims years from now. (Though hopefully in a few years someone will finally make a dynamic Falcon 4 style campaign engine)
From 1994 to 2000 it was quite literally night and day. However for the same time period from 2007 to 2013 I'm not seeing much. Other than lack of widescreen support, I still find many early 2000's era games still enjoyable. Others seem to agree because of the GOG.com.
This is Eve Online's 10 year anniversary. How long can a MMO last? This is all new territory.
I sit and look at my Steam collection and think "There's no way I'll be able to beat all these until I retire." My next thought is "I don't think any of these games could seriously be improved on in ways that would make me not want to play the versions I have 5 to 10 or more years from now." Then I wonder..."will I still be able to play them by then?"
Hmm..just random early Sunday morning thoughts.
Funny you mention that, but you don't touch upon a very big issue in my view; originality.
Many games these days are re-runs of old classics or try to cash in bigtime while lifting on some big Hollywood brand.
I am glad we have the indie movement gaining momentum, providing us with the more unique offering at this time.
But games like Assassin's Creed, Battlefield, Batman, etc etc etc etc are just like DVD's. You run them once, maybe twice and then they get shelved. It's quick entertainment. And I don't see these games being played in ten years still. Especially not if they have a successor every year.
Gog.com shows that the games of old still have a place in modern times, but I believe that is more a sign of the current generation of older gamers. Those who grew up in the 'Golden Age of Gaming'. We crave to get that fuzzy warm feeling back. The feeling we had in high school while we dumped homework in favour of playing the games hours on end we now regard as classics.
But our children will have a very different definition of 'classic games'.
There is one part of gaming, though, that is less saturated and more stable; simming. Be it racing, flying, tanking, whatever.
Less titles available and closely knit communities ensure longevity.
I hear you. I do, however, feel like Kickstarter is helping. FTL reminds me a lot of the games that came out in the 90's. I do wish there were more games pushing story and exploration.
I feel like games today feel like they have to fit into a genre. They have to do x and y because they are an RPG, etc. Back then, a developer just had an idea and made a game.
I don't even know how I would classify some of my favorite games.
Starflight I and II...rpgish action adventure
Space Quest...comedy adventure I suppose
K240/Fragile Allegiance...realtime strategy trading sim
Utopia, Metal Marines, P.T.O., Starfleet Academy, Transport Tycoon, Great Naval Battles, Wing Commander, all the old 'lighter' flight sims...Aces over Europe/Pacific...
Many of the older games didn't fit into a single genre, they seeped around the edges into other genres, or other ideas that don't even have genre's.
The one game I have played more than any other is Medieval 2 Total War...probably thousands of hours sunk into it. Does that qualify as modern or olde? It was released in 2006.
As it happens, MetalDog and I were talking about the TW games earlier during our Warlock MP game - like you Gus, TW Med 2 is the one that I have played the most out of all the TW series, and I played Med 1 a whole lot as well.
I have the boxed 'Gold Edition' which requires the CD to be in the drive, but I've been very tempted to get the Steam version on more than one occasion.
Some old games weren't much good but they seemed great at the time and have since been surpassed.
Others were and are great. In my opinion there are many that were great that would need to be polished
up and filled out a bit to work today but if the right people were to bring them to state of the art it would
be wonderful. I have been playing some older RPG's with enjoyment because I was never into RPG's before
and so the genre is new to me. Dated graphics etc. don't hurt so much.
One thing worth considering in this is how many BAD games were produced in the "golden age", that we now just don't remember. It's a bit like with music or films - you could pick out all your faves from, say, the 80s and think it was a golden age for music. If you actually sat and listened to the whole of the Top 40 for one week, you'd no doubt have to suffer 20 derivative tracks for each nugget of gold.
In 20 years' time we'll probably think of early 2010s as being a grand time for games - picking out five or so titles that have lasted in the memory.
FWIW I think improvements will be in the direction of more robust MP support/innovation and greater computing power allowing a greater interaction with the virtual world.
Quote from: Father Ted on January 20, 2013, 03:13:46 PM
One thing worth considering in this is how many BAD games were produced in the "golden age", that we now just don't remember. It's a bit like with music or films - you could pick out all your faves from, say, the 80s and think it was a golden age for music. If you actually sat and listened to the whole of the Top 40 for one week, you'd no doubt have to suffer 20 derivative tracks for each nugget of gold.
In 20 years' time we'll probably think of early 2010s as being a grand time for games - picking out five or so titles that have lasted in the memory.
FWIW I think improvements will be in the direction of more robust MP support/innovation and greater computing power allowing a greater interaction with the virtual world.
Exactly. We're wired to remember the good things from the past and forget the bad. There were A LOT of crap games back in the day, and a lot of games that you played once and then tossed aside to never again be remembered.
I guess your right. There was one game I vividly remember being horrible. It was by Sierra in the mid 90's and it was one of those full motion video CDROM games. I paid $60 for the thing and it was utterly pointless. Like a video choose your own adventure...
^^ Arctic said it all for me, so I won't bother :D
Quote from: Arctic Blast on January 20, 2013, 03:29:11 PM
...There were A LOT of crap games back in the day, and a lot of games that you played once and then tossed aside to never again be remembered.
Some of those were so bad they were almost good in the way a wretched movie becomes a classic (Plan 9, anyone).
Anyone remember Battles in Time (http://www.mobygames.com/game/battles-in-time)?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.mobygames.com%2Fimages%2Fcovers%2Flarge%2F1073960571-00.jpg&hash=eef40dacbcecf5a86fa89c148b9f99a2274c29bc)
Quote from: republic on January 20, 2013, 03:32:40 PM
I guess your right. There was one game I vividly remember being horrible. It was by Sierra in the mid 90's and it was one of those full motion video CDROM games. I paid $60 for the thing and it was utterly pointless. Like a video choose your own adventure...
Oh yeah, those mid 90's games that were all about the full motion video have NOT aged well at all.
hehe, Elite and Paradroid on the ol' C64 - crap graphix but smashing games.
Quote from: republic on January 20, 2013, 03:32:40 PM
I guess your right. There was one game I vividly remember being horrible. It was by Sierra in the mid 90's and it was one of those full motion video CDROM games. I paid $60 for the thing and it was utterly pointless. Like a video choose your own adventure...
I'm guessing it was Roberta Williams
Phantasmagoria.
Just looked it up, it was The Last Dynasty. It didn't work well and I never even got to the space combat...
I think that there have been great games in all eras of gaming, but some just stand out.
1990's
Steel Panthers
Panzer General
Warcraft 2
2000's
All total War games
SOaSE
Civilisation (all)
Paradox games (with add-ons/patches)
Tin Soldiers
Field of Glory
Combat Mission
The lists are huge.
Whatever you like, gameplay and graphics keep getting better. We do forget all the rubbish from past eras, but let;s be honest, if 1000's of games are constantly produced, there will always be varying quality. It's just good to be able to choose, depending on your likes/dislikes.
The '80s were a great decade for music!! Maybe not music videos but music in general. Damn you all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Pq0xYr3L4
Quote from: Gusington on January 20, 2013, 05:26:02 PM
The '80s were a great decade for music!! Maybe not music videos but music in general. Damn you all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Pq0xYr3L4
LOL....funny how it is all subjective; movies, music, games. Musically, to me, the 80's was the lost decade....very little of memorable value.
I was going to agree. I am sure something good happened in the 1980's as far
as music and entertainment but I do not remember all that much.
There was beer..maybe that's why.
The 60's had the best music. Period. End of discussion.
I will not disagree but that ain't discussion.
Quote from: Electric_Strawberry on January 20, 2013, 06:45:03 PM
The 60's had the best music. Period. End of discussion.
Though it's funny how what we think of as the 60's seemed to have lasted until well into the 70's.
^Drugs will do that.
The 60's are still happening in many peoples minds. ACW buffs are like that.
For many of us the 19 60's never really ended just kind of faded into the Reagan years.
Then everything turned stupid like it was supposed to be after that little vacation.
In some parts of Canada, like Saskatchewan, the 60's didn't even start until about 1980.
If nothing else, the 60's were indeed "interesting times". ;D
Robin Williams said "if you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there"
Quote from: Staggerwing on January 20, 2013, 03:38:06 PM
....Anyone remember Battles in Time (http://www.mobygames.com/game/battles-in-time)?
As a matter of fact, I spotted my boxed copy of
Battles of Time sitting on a shelf today and almost installed it on my PC (I was confusing it with
Global Conquest (http://www.mobygames.com/game/global-conquest)). But I didn't and after viewing this preview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKHKQZm-14U), I'm glad I didn't. I played the original
WarCraft (http://www.mobygames.com/game/warcraft-orcs-humans) instead.
Some of my fondest PC gaming memories have been of playing games from the days when DOS was king. But I also have many games from that period that were stinkers.
I do sometimes wonder how much -- not "if", because I think it's only a matter of to what degree -- we're blinded by nostalgia. (And lest anyone make comments about pots & kettles, I say that being fully aware I'm as guilty of this as anyone else.)
I still play more older games than newer games, but not because the latter have necessarily declined in quality. I think it's more a case that these days, it's simply that fewer games are being made that personally appeal to me.
In addition, my tastes have changed somewhat in the last 10-15 years, and are now rather different than what they were when I was in my teens and early twenties.
I'm still into the strategy genre, for example, but I'm now far more an adherent to grand strategy titles such as the Total War and Paradox games than I am to real-time click-fests such as
Earth 2150 or
Command & Conquer (which I used to play a lot of). I still enjoy the occasional romp in
Red Alert 2, but generally would much rather be playing
Armada 2526 or
Crusader Kings 2 in my (relative) dotage.
Quote from: junk2drive on January 20, 2013, 11:29:42 PM
Robin Williams said "if you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there"
Heh!
No doubt there was also clunkers for me back in the day, but I do think it was different times and it made it feel different. Back then money was tight so I had to be much more selective and because I bought less, I put more time into a game before giving up. Nowadays I can reasonably afford what I want so I typically give a game only a small chance and then move on.
I also hate to say it but I think the Internet, forums, and patches have also played a role in this. Back then, there wasn't as prevelant of places to read about and discuss games like forums like there is today. Therefore back then, I didn't really notice bugs nor did I know how the game could be made better. I just played for fun. Nowadays I spend more time reading about games and all their flaws which leads me to moving on quickly. Same thing with patches. Back then, patches were rare (from what I can remember) where now they are expected. Back then I would play the game for what it was, but now I get disappointed in games for what they could be:)
So bottom line for me is that past games had a longer shelf life for other reasons besides the game itself but still no doubt there were some bad games back then just as there are now. But today there are so many games available that it will certainly feel like modern games have less longevity.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 21, 2013, 07:05:32 AM
I also hate to say it but I think the Internet, forums, and patches have also played a role in this. Back then, there wasn't as prevelant of places to read about and discuss games like forums like there is today. Therefore back then, I didn't really notice bugs nor did I know how the game could be made better. I just played for fun. Nowadays I spend more time reading about games and all their flaws which leads me to moving on quickly. Same thing with patches. Back then, patches were rare (from what I can remember) where now they are expected. Back then I would play the game for what it was, but now I get disappointed in games for what they could be:)
I was talking about this just last night. I've been playing Planetside 2 with a mate and he was asking me if I'd read the game's forums. I realised that I haven't and that I'm just enjoying having a bit of a bash at the game, without reading about what other people say is wrong about it and that then colouring my own view.
I just have to add, though, that Grogheads and the like are a bit different to dedicated forums because there is much less of the entrenched axe-grinding. We're not entirely without it here, but it's not like the shitstorm that blew up when the CloD and RoF communities found themselves thrust together by the 1C/777 merger.
To go back to PS2, I just play it. After I while I'll start to recognise the faults and bugs and repetitive game-play, but until then I'll have some fun. Of course it helps that it's free. I might not be so relaxed if I'd shelled out £30...
Quote from: Gusington on January 20, 2013, 05:26:02 PM
The '80s were a great decade for music!! Maybe not music videos but music in general. Damn you all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Pq0xYr3L4
We had another name for that band, "Flock of A@@$^les"
lol.. one of the few bands that I purposedly avoided when they were backing up a headliner..
Another one we repeatedly avoided was Eddie Money (He used to backup Santana all the time), we used to stay out in the parking lot and have a few more beers during the opening act..
Why? I love both Eddie Money and Flock of Seagulls.
There is a lot to be said about the brandy snifter quality of a game. Can I sit with it and just chill for a while? Case in point: last night I just sat and chilled with Skyrim, basking in the afterglow of beating Dawnguard. While basking I explored two new areas, a cave and a fort, and got some phat loot. On my way to the next mission waypoint I stopped at a few cities to empty out what I had found and lighten my load and make some good coin.
It only took an hour to do this but it was very satisfying. A snifter full of brandy would have been the only thing to make it better.
I disagree with the basic premise of the thread. I think the golden age of gaming is now - and that it will continue to improve.
Why? Internet distribution.
Designers now have the ability to raise enough capital to start game projects via Kickstarter and the relatively inexpensive design tools available. The internet makes it possible for game designers to keep more of the total price of the game. The internet also makes it possible to gain sales internationally at very low distribution costs via direct download.
We have seen in the past six years or so very interesting niche wargame releases - many of which are vast improvements over previous decades. The flury of WW1 strategy games are a good example. Other examples are Spiderweb Software RPGs, Faster than Light, and Legend of Grimrock. Panzer Korps, John Tiller, etc.......
The only real threat that I see to all of this is theft of product which robs developers of enough return to make a living. That is a real threat to the business model.
The only area that has seen less development and fewer offerings are single player RPGs with very high graphics standards. If you must have excellent graphics to enjoy a game - then wargame, strategy game, and RPGs are few and far between for single player types.
Lets face it - many of the games grogheads enjoy playing are niche markets. Wargames, detailed strategy games, RPGs that are more than click-fest twitch games. These are simply not a big mainstream market.
Once we reach a certain threshold for graphics quality, this will be a good thing for the games industry. It will force them to find new types of games to develop, rather than your generic first person shooter, real time strategy, or <insert popular game name> clone.
Gus I love Flock of Seagulls too and that album of theirs was one of the first music purchases of my life. In fact Chaka Khan was the first 12" single I bought.
I'm also surprise no one mentioned that the fighters in the screenie of Battles in Time are a direct rip off of Buck Rogers, the '80s version.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.universalhartland.com%2Fmedium%2Fbuckr0_thunder01.jpg&hash=ac7855fb928683aed640b292b4c257879a92f455)
Quote from: Martok on January 21, 2013, 06:49:50 AM
I do sometimes wonder how much -- not "if", because I think it's only a matter of to what degree -- we're blinded by nostalgia. (And lest anyone make comments about pots & kettles, I say that being fully aware I'm as guilty of this as anyone else.)
FEMALE KLINGON BOOBSblinded by nostalgia
Hating Flock of Seagulls is inconceivable if you grew up in the 1980s, like guitar rock, or play GTA Vice City...or any combination of those three things.
I wish I 'd never mentioned 80s music...My point was that I did grow up in the 80s, and thought I pretty much hated nearly all the music of the time, at the time. A small amount of contemporary stuff I did like, and if that was 80s music, then I like 80s music, and I could probably do the same for every decade.
I'm not going to say what it was I liked or didn't coz that's not the point of my argument
Quote from: Gusington on January 23, 2013, 01:39:41 PM
Hating Flock of Seagulls is inconceivable if you grew up in the 1980s, like guitar rock, or play GTA Vice City...or any combination of those three things.
I grew up in the 80's, I like guitar rock and I enjoyed Vice City. And I despise Flock of Seagulls.
Quote from: Father Ted on January 23, 2013, 03:35:57 PM
I wish I 'd never mentioned 80s music...My point was that I did grow up in the 80s, and thought I pretty much hated nearly all the music of the time, at the time. A small amount of contemporary stuff I did like, and if that was 80s music, then I like 80s music, and I could probably do the same for every decade.
I'm not going to say what it was I liked or didn't coz that's not the point of my argument
I definitely get your point however be prepared to get all your threads hijacked off topic with the group of boys we've got here. :)
Sheeesh. I never even heard of Flock of Seagulls until a couple of years ago.
I was an adult when the first bare female boob was on TV (on purpose). The first band I saw in
concert was The Turtles they had a guy with a tambourine! I was a co-owner
of a 1962 Ford Falcon. I bought a "45" of some Beachboys song with my allowance
(used because I couldn't afford a new one) around 1963 or so. Some sh*t happened in
the 80's. Some was good some was not.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on January 23, 2013, 03:38:48 PM
Quote from: Gusington on January 23, 2013, 01:39:41 PM
Hating Flock of Seagulls is inconceivable if you grew up in the 1980s, like guitar rock, or play GTA Vice City...or any combination of those three things.
I grew up in the 80's, I like guitar rock and I enjoyed Vice City. And I despise Flock of Seagulls.
Quoted for truth AND accuracy times a MILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whatevs, Pop, whatevs.
Quote from: republic on January 20, 2013, 09:02:21 AM
Back in the day, I always knew my games would be out of date. Replaced by better graphics, higher resolutions, etc.
I think games still have their peak moments and begin to fade. For example, ARMAII vanilla online was great for a couple of months in the summer of 2010 and then it got cleaned up.
TW Medieval II for me at least, peaked about 3 years ago as well.
On the other hand, IL-2 1946, 4.11.1m seems like a great moment for a pretty old game. I've been launching torpedo salvos at ships off
Cytheria happily for days now.
But plenty of games are fading fast: Harpoon in all its incarnations, WWII online. There's just so many games out there, you don't notice as much when they fade out.
Quote from: Father Ted on January 23, 2013, 03:35:57 PM
I wish I 'd never mentioned 80s music...My point was that I did grow up in the 80s, and thought I pretty much hated nearly all the music of the time, at the time. A small amount of contemporary stuff I did like, and if that was 80s music, then I like 80s music, and I could probably do the same for every decade.
I'm not going to say what it was I liked or didn't coz that's not the point of my argument
I'm not terribly enamored with 80s synth music, either. Used to drive me nuts, how much they played that crap on the radio over & over & over back then. It wasn't all bad, but much of it I didn't enjoy.
I think I didn't say what I was wanting to say. I wasn't meaning games of yor were better. What I meant was, old games are still fun today but they often look dated mainly because resolutions grew from 320x240 to 1920x1080 today.
It is much less of a visual jump to go from 1080p of today's games to future even higher resolutions, so today's games will be playable even longer. That is, in 20 years I could possibly still be playing the games I'm playing today...and that is pretty cool