I've been playing alot of Phantom Leader on my iPad and now Thunderbolt/Apache Leader on the my game table so I'm in a real modern air combat gaming mode.
Toonces and LB mentioned War Over Vietnam and War Over Middle East in another thread.
What are owner's opinions of these games? Do they scratch the air combat itch? Are they exciting/intersting scenarios or is it a dry academic approach?
I'm not looking for a flight sim as I no longer have the patients to learn how to fly, but these game look like they might be "automated" version of the same kind of play as the Leader series.
I didn't play Vietnam. I have played Mideast.
It took some digging but I managed to find my review of it on WG: http://www.wargamer.com/article/2638/pc-game-review-war-over-the-mideast
Quote from: LongBlade on January 23, 2013, 03:01:38 PM
I didn't play Vietnam. I have played Mideast.
It took some digging but I managed to find my review of it on WG: http://www.wargamer.com/article/2638/pc-game-review-war-over-the-mideast
Thanks LB.
Too little content, no cohesive campaign.
You play this because you want to study weapons and tactics.... not to get entertained.
This is a mission planning / ATO simulation. No detailed tactics involved. If you know the Air War in Harpoon, then this is similar but a bit more detailed.
I Should probably use the editor more.
Sorry for the negative summary.
If you read the description of the game at the HPS website you'll see that it is derived from a simulation used to train Air Force officers so you're not going to see explosions, missiles firing and jets zooming across the sky. LB's review does a good job describing it.
I messed around with it and War Over Vietnam but that's been a while ago. There was supposed to be another installment covering a possible NATO-WP conflict but that information is 2 or 3 years old.
I never played the ME version, but I heard that it was the better of the two games.
I'm going to sort of second what Jomni said. I'm sure there is a good game in WoV, but it will take a lot of work to get it out and frankly I've never really tried.
The game ships with a bunch of single missions. The missions have all the waypoints set up and the game starts close to the target. It's real time and things happen pretty quickly, although you can pause the game and change orders.
The graphics are not very good.
The thing is, the single missions aren't that fun because you start on top of the target. In order to create a custom mission, you have to start from complete and utter scratch, as in blank map with nothing on it and hand place all the units/targets/jets/etc. or edit one of the already created missions. Neither is a user-friendly way to create a mission.
It's like he designed a neat simulation, but then forgot to put anything resembling a game on top of it.
It's probably worth looking at if you can find it cheap, and you're really interested in the subject. Frankly, a better simulation would be to solo Downtown on Vassal using the solo rules.
Ultimately the game is a big sandbox. You get all the tools, and the sand, but the heavy lifting is all up to you. Not a glowing endorsement...maybe I'm being too harsh.
Quote from: Toonces on January 23, 2013, 10:51:28 PM
I never played the ME version, but I heard that it was the better of the two games.
I'm going to sort of second what Jomni said. I'm sure there is a good game in WoV, but it will take a lot of work to get it out and frankly I've never really tried.
The game ships with a bunch of single missions. The missions have all the waypoints set up and the game starts close to the target. It's real time and things happen pretty quickly, although you can pause the game and change orders.
The graphics are not very good.
The thing is, the single missions aren't that fun because you start on top of the target. In order to create a custom mission, you have to start from complete and utter scratch, as in blank map with nothing on it and hand place all the units/targets/jets/etc. or edit one of the already created missions. Neither is a user-friendly way to create a mission.
It's like he designed a neat simulation, but then forgot to put anything resembling a game on top of it.
It's probably worth looking at if you can find it cheap, and you're really interested in the subject. Frankly, a better simulation would be to solo Downtown on Vassal using the solo rules.
Ultimately the game is a big sandbox. You get all the tools, and the sand, but the heavy lifting is all up to you. Not a glowing endorsement...maybe I'm being too harsh.
I have both - and the critisism of WoV was that it was essentially just a series of canned missions that the dice had already been rolled for. From what I recall the Mid East game was much more involved as they added a whole load of base / rearm / refuel etc stuff so some of the scenarios are much more campaigns. they retro fitted all that to the WoV game but no new scenarios to take advantage of that.
Personally I think they are both good games with a lot of detail as is usual from tiller.
the only thing I found a bit uneasy was the whole manual firing of missiles thing. Seems it introduced a bit of arcadey stuff in a game that should have the AI fire missiles when appropriate. In big scenarios it can become quite a handfull. I think thats it - been a while since I looked at it. Always thought it would make a excellent engine for a battle of britain game.
Thanks guys for all the info. 8)
Quote...the only thing I found a bit uneasy was the whole manual firing of missiles thing. Seems it introduced a bit of arcadey stuff in a game that should have the AI fire missiles when appropriate...
I agree. Wondered about that myself.
If you're really, really into air warfare stuff this is a game to get - and War over the ME is the better of the two.
I really like ME, the game has a great deal of variety in the missions. From hectic mid-air knife fights, to long well planned air strikes. Just wish there was a campaign game.
Dug up my old review at:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/war-over-the-mideast-pc-game-review.htm
Quote from: ArizonaTank on January 24, 2013, 10:13:17 AM
I really like ME, the game has a great deal of variety in the missions. From hectic mid-air knife fights, to long well planned air strikes. Just wish there was a campaign game.
Dug up my old review at:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/war-over-the-mideast-pc-game-review.htm
Thanks 'Tank. Nice write up.
Quote from: Barthheart on January 24, 2013, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: ArizonaTank on January 24, 2013, 10:13:17 AM
I really like ME, the game has a great deal of variety in the missions. From hectic mid-air knife fights, to long well planned air strikes. Just wish there was a campaign game.
Dug up my old review at:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/war-over-the-mideast-pc-game-review.htm
Thanks 'Tank. Nice write up.
+1 Nice review.