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IRL (In Real Life) => General Discussion => Topic started by: DicedT on February 08, 2013, 01:44:28 PM

Title: Drone-Proof City
Post by: DicedT on February 08, 2013, 01:44:28 PM
As you can see, I'm not planning to move here. http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2013/02/08/the-city-designed-to-keep-drones-out/

Michael
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: LongBlade on February 08, 2013, 01:57:53 PM
I need a drone to monitor all the drones.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: Longdan on February 08, 2013, 02:08:09 PM
Al Quaeda's 42nd number 2 guy's last words...."Hey Ali!  What's that droning noise outside?"
[opens door. drone is there.] "Shit." [drone blows up.]
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: bayonetbrant on February 08, 2013, 02:38:09 PM
At NTC, one of the the visual cues for the OPFOR when hunting BLUFOR leadership are the antennas on the HMMWVs.  When you see a 4-post HMMWV, you know it's someone important with a lot of radios on board.

Back in 1997, there was a tank battalion from Ft Riley that came out there supporting the 101st guys that were training at NTC (don't ask why a light unit was training at Ft Irwin... long, dumb story).  This tank battalion took all their spare antennas and bolted them on to every HMMWV, so that they all had 3-4 antennas - many of them not wired into a damn thing.

I always come back to that story whenever people talk about trying to hide/disguise themselves in an environment to avoid detection.  Maybe you need to look at ways to manipulate the environment to avoid detection.  There are plenty of ways to flood the 'sensors' with information that they may have a hard time filtering through:
Coded phrases broadcast to Nazi-occupied Europe ("John has a long moustache")
Zebras
The guys in bowler hats in the final gallery scene in the Pierce Brosnan "Thomas Crown Affair"

Overwhelm the detectors with noise and you force them to work that much harder parsing out the meaningful signals.  Much of the same could be done with drones, if you understand their surveillance processes.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: bayonetbrant on February 08, 2013, 02:39:26 PM
the article also doesn't discuss at all how to retrofit existing cities to be drone-proof.  No one is abandoning Kirkuk for some brand new build somewhere just to avoid drones.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: DicedT on February 08, 2013, 02:55:08 PM
Good point, Brant. Hadn't thought about rebuilding existing cities to be drone-proof. I figure the chances of that are about as great as Shura City being built.

As for the antennae, wasn't there a story that a Vietnam platoon commander got tired of the VC always shooting his radioman first? So he had every guy in the platoon wear a fake antenna. The VC wiped out the entire platoon.

Michael
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: LongBlade on February 08, 2013, 04:25:43 PM
I still want a UAV to watch the UAVs watching me.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: DicedT on February 08, 2013, 05:23:30 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on February 08, 2013, 04:25:43 PM
I still want a UAV to watch the UAVs watching me.

That should be a Latin phrase. "Who watches the drones?" Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Michael
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: Longdan on February 08, 2013, 05:37:48 PM
Quis custodiet ipsos drones?  Quis drones custodiet ipsos drones?  How about  Quis automata fellator custodeit ipsos drones!
I have no Latin.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: bob48 on February 08, 2013, 05:59:27 PM
^Looks just like my doctors prescriptions  ;)
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: MikeGER on February 09, 2013, 04:19:47 AM
hmmm, let me think ... arab low-tech drone defence?

give every kid in the city - that are 50% of the city population-  an Muhamad favored colored (green) laserpointer and let them play catch that strange bird in the sky which makes those unnerving low humming sounds   ;)

German drone defence
track the 'warm' exhaust fumes with an IR telescope and slave an 30 (60; 100; x) kW laser to the optical tracking resolution    8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ut51GwYESLc%2FUNC9VcoMLnI%2FAAAAAAAAAog%2FbTN_txPs73o%2Fs1600%2F2012-12-18_Rheinmetall-50kW-Laser_DSC2883_a.jpg&hash=4125ca259d91dab6125713f0ae034e4c6cc65de7)
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: pawelj on February 12, 2013, 08:52:55 AM
Still would not be carpet bombing proof.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: GDS_Starfury on February 14, 2013, 02:56:36 AM
I wasnt aware of any other country, other then the US, that had bombers capable of carpet bombing.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: undercovergeek on February 14, 2013, 03:19:45 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 14, 2013, 02:56:36 AM
I wasnt aware of any other country, other then the US, that had bombers capable of carpet bombing.

only the US can carpet bomb?

did not know that - is that because of the number of munitions, or airplanes required, or tech?
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: Staggerwing on February 14, 2013, 06:45:58 AM
He is probably referring to the number and type of aircraft required. The US has a number (80, 90?)of B-52s (carrying up to 70,000 pounds of iron bombs) and roughly 15-20 B-2 Spirits (carrying up to 50,000 pounds) which could be used to saturate a large area with ordinence. The only other country with operational heavy bombers that comes to mind is Russia with it's Tu-160 (80,000lbs), of which it has about a dozen and are probably configured for cruise missiles at the moment.


I suppose you could try to carpet bomb with tactical bombers but that would require an awful lot of sorties. Precision bombing is a better use of their abilities.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: undercovergeek on February 14, 2013, 07:18:09 AM
Quote from: Staggerwing on February 14, 2013, 06:45:58 AM
He is probably referring to the number and type of aircraft required. The US has a number (80, 90?)of B-52s (carrying up to 70,000 pounds of iron bombs) and roughly 15-20 B-2 Spirits (carrying up to 50,000 pounds) which could be used to saturate a large area with ordinence. The only other country with operational heavy bombers that comes to mind is Russia with it's Tu-160 (80,000lbs), of which it has about a dozen and are probably configured for cruise missiles at the moment.


I suppose you could try to carpet bomb with tactical bombers but that would require an awful lot of sorties. Precision bombing is a better use of their abilities.

is it even still used? did you guys use it in the Afghan mountains or was that precision
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: bayonetbrant on February 14, 2013, 07:37:03 AM
Depends on what you're trying to do.  If you just want to erase a few grid squares, there's something to be said for carpet bombing.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: Longdan on February 14, 2013, 11:37:30 AM
It works real good if you don't care who gets killed or what gets broken.
Carpet bombing in WW2 had mixed results:

Carpet bombs wrecked Panzer Lehr,
They also snuffed General McNair.
The city of Caen was blown full of holes
But so were a lot of Canadians and Poles.
Title: Re: Drone-Proof City
Post by: besilarius on February 14, 2013, 08:13:10 PM
In a sense, you don't need a lot of planes for a localised carpet bombing, three B52s do fine.  You need good intel to effectively do it, though.
In a Vietnam Arc Light strike, the lead flew down the designated line, and the other two were offset to port and starboard.  (I think RED CROWN, Air Ops, coordinated the intel and the events.  Required very fast reactions for the strike to catch Charlie in the open and deployed.)
It was really scary if you were not expecting it, and were only a mile away.  The experienced guys quickly sat down, while the newbies tried to stand, as the earth trembled.
I think there was an Arc Light strike NATO called on a Serbian battalion that was attacking.  A buddy told me that they were caught out in the open, and were just decimated worse than Panzer Lehr.