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History, Reference, Research, and GrogTalk => Organizations and Equipment => Topic started by: Shelldrake on February 11, 2013, 05:09:44 PM

Title: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Shelldrake on February 11, 2013, 05:09:44 PM
Sea King replacements are far behind schedule and some question whether Sikorsky will ever deliver.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/02/11/ns-sea-king-cyclone-alternatives.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/02/11/ns-sea-king-cyclone-alternatives.html)

At this rate we will have new patrol frigates before these choppers appear!  >:(
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: LongBlade on February 11, 2013, 05:55:44 PM
For some reason I thought this was about D&D, not DND.
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Longdan on February 11, 2013, 06:07:08 PM
They share a similar relationship to reality.
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: MIGMaster on February 12, 2013, 07:47:53 AM
http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/681877-maritime-choppers-may-not-land-until-2015

In the paper today.......
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Martok on February 13, 2013, 05:25:35 AM
Quote from: Shelldrake on February 11, 2013, 05:09:44 PM

At this rate we will have new patrol frigates before these choppers appear!  >:(
Sadly, it would appear your comment may not be that far-fetched. 

Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Shelldrake on February 14, 2013, 09:47:27 AM
Now it appears that Sikorsky could cancel the deal since Sikorsky is taking a heavy loss on the current contract even without penalties.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/685662-helicopter-deal-on-shaky-ground (http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/685662-helicopter-deal-on-shaky-ground)
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Centurion40 on February 14, 2013, 09:49:27 AM
And who would blame them?
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Longdan on February 14, 2013, 12:39:16 PM
So this is a lose/lose deal for everybody.  Oh, Canada! 
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Centurion40 on February 14, 2013, 02:28:46 PM
In other words, fairly typical, big ticket military procurement for Canada.
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: eyebiter on February 14, 2013, 02:53:03 PM
And to think if they had just bought the LH101 in the first place, this whole fiasco could have been avoided.

I'd like to see how much the contract changed since 2004.. Fly by wire controls, a new GE engine, and who knows what else. Sikorsky can whine all they want, AFTER they soaked Canada for a decade SUDDENLY they don't want to deliver on the contract? 

Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Longdan on February 14, 2013, 03:57:26 PM
How much has this deal cost so far with no freaking helis?
Watching a Sea King firing up on the ramp with the crew chief standing by with a fire extinguisher
is certainly amusing, especially when you are rewarded by a huge puff of black smoke and a flurry
of frenzied fire fighting...but I don't think that is supposed the happen to "the one that runs".
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on February 15, 2013, 01:01:07 AM
we love you to death.  why do you really need a funtioning military?  really.
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on February 15, 2013, 01:02:16 AM
it comes down to that 'no ones messing with my little brother' thing.
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Centurion40 on February 15, 2013, 09:44:18 AM
It's lose-lose for us.  We stop trying to have a military, and then Southern Big Brother says "carry some of your own gd weight, and stop relying on us to carry it all."
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Longdan on February 15, 2013, 11:26:42 AM
The only plausible military threat to Canada has been the USA.  Thanks for not invading.
Since you haven't tried to come over for about a hundred years we thought we might
use the money for something else.  Like buying votes in Quebec.  Or hospital bills.
Your patronizing attitude is okay, we are used to it.  :P
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on February 18, 2013, 11:32:32 PM
you just should have bought whatever version of Blackhawk you needed.
the same way we should have just bought the Tanker-X that boeing offered up.
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: MIGMaster on February 19, 2013, 10:17:49 AM
Problem is (they say) the Black/Sea Hawk isn't big enough to fill the role - they want it to do everything!!! - The Cyclone carries 22 troops and has a range of 450 KM while the Hawk has around 365 and carries 11 troops. I suspect the Blackhawk, NH-90 (personally I think the 90 is half-baked) or EH-101 woulda been a logical choice, but therein lies the problem - logic should play no role in Gov't procurement  ;)
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Longdan on February 19, 2013, 12:28:22 PM
They bought the B412 for the same reason.  They wanted it to do everything and mostly it does nothing very well.
They can fly.  I know this because I see them around sometimes.  They can fly at night because they used to go around
scaring farmers and cows nearby.  I do not know if they can do anything else.  Oh yeah, they break down.
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Centurion40 on February 19, 2013, 03:43:03 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 18, 2013, 11:32:32 PM
you just should have bought whatever version of Blackhawk you needed.
the same way we should have just bought the Tanker-X that boeing offered up.

No shit.
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Centurion40 on February 19, 2013, 03:44:25 PM
Quote from: MIGMaster on February 19, 2013, 10:17:49 AM
Problem is (they say) the Black/Sea Hawk isn't big enough to fill the role - they want it to do everything!!! - The Cyclone carries 22 troops and has a range of 450 KM while the Hawk has around 365 and carries 11 troops. I suspect the Blackhawk, NH-90 (personally I think the 90 is half-baked) or EH-101 woulda been a logical choice, but therein lies the problem - logic should play no role in Gov't procurement  ;)

I heard that the 101 was too big to fit inside the helo sheds on the frigates.
Title: Re: Cyclone Helicopter Deal - Worst Procurement in DND History?
Post by: Longdan on February 19, 2013, 06:35:00 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on February 19, 2013, 03:44:25 PM
Quote from: MIGMaster on February 19, 2013, 10:17:49 AM
Problem is (they say) the Black/Sea Hawk isn't big enough to fill the role - they want it to do everything!!! - The Cyclone carries 22 troops and has a range of 450 KM while the Hawk has around 365 and carries 11 troops. I suspect the Blackhawk, NH-90 (personally I think the 90 is half-baked) or EH-101 woulda been a logical choice, but therein lies the problem - logic should play no role in Gov't procurement  ;)

I heard that the 101 was too big to fit inside the helo sheds on the frigates.

That should have guaranteed immediate purchase.  What went wrong?  The 101 spoke French what else did it need except a glaring defect?