Saw this mentioned in Bismarck's thread and I know next to nothing about it. A lot of youse seem to love it so I ask you: why?
I am a dread[nought]head and I would love a game with a campaign set during WWI. Post your impressions, complaints, etc...and allow me to pick your brains. Thanks all.
Because it's a decent representation of WWI naval battles, and it's UI is exceptionally easy to get along with compared to other naval wargames. It probably resembles Harpoon Classic the most, regarding looks, but it's much easier to use than that or (for example) Jutland.
It only has a serial code activation (no phone-home DRM or extra client software).
^Quickest response ever. Exceptionally easy to get into, really?
Quote from: Gusington on February 16, 2013, 04:44:38 PM
^Quickest response ever. Exceptionally easy to get into, really?
I'm sure you'll want to read up a bit on some of the finer details, but I found the interface quite intuitive in a simple point & click way that was easy to pick up on. Game mechanics-wise, you'll still want to investigate what does what. It's just easy to put your strategy into action via the interface.
Demo exists...easy way to try and see if you like.
http://forums.navalwarfare.net/showthread.php?2328-******-INFORMATION-AND-DOWNLOADS-THREAD-******
^Thanks guys. I have to admit that just a cursory look at the game and it looks like work. Should I just get over that initial reaction?
Quote from: Gusington on February 16, 2013, 04:54:42 PM
^Thanks guys. I have to admit that just a cursory look at the game and it looks like work. Should I just get over that initial reaction?
Every wargame is "work", if you think about it. :P
True but I mean work like what I get paid to do during the day. I haven't seen any shots of Steam and Iron that don't look like a spreadsheet. How does this game draw you in?
Quote from: Gusington on February 16, 2013, 04:59:44 PM
True but I mean work like what I get paid to do during the day. I haven't seen any shots of Steam and Iron that don't look like a spreadsheet. How does this game draw you in?
You've gotta be into the whole big-gunned naval battle thing, obviously. It
does have some minimal eye candy, in the form of a ship view window, at the bottom left, which was added in an update at some point. So you click on a ship and see a top down view of where it's guns are pointing and get an idea whether any of them have been knocked out (on enemy ships) or take a quick look at your own.
Still.. most of it is lines of dots on a map, with optional name labels over them, and pop-up status windows available for each. You'll just be telling squadron/division leaders where to steer and at what speed, along with a few general engagement orders. That's something that helps make it easy.. course & speed.. the rest is cheese.
I dunno what scenarios are in the demo, but try a smaller one with just a couple divisions. All you gotta do is maneuver into an optimal gun range (hopefully you have the advantage and speed enough to keep them at your preferred range) and broadside them. Each ship's pop-up window has a Gunnery Modifiers button you can hit to see what bonuses/penalties your gunfire, against the current target, has. Things such as firing down wind into your own smoke stack exhaust and (IIRC) firing towards a target backlit by the sun at dawn/dusk give you extra environmental penalties/bonuses, Sea State, Target/Firer Speed, etc will show on that modifier list. But there are only a relative few factors if you compare them to a land-based wargame, so that mixed with the L/R-click windows style interface made it easy (for me, anyway).
In comparison, if you play Harpoon Classic (which this most
looks like) or H3, there is far more to know regarding weapon systems & their employment, and the interfaces of those games can be rather annoying (especially H3/ANW IMO). With S&I, it's just a matter of getting into an advantageous gun range and maneuvering to keep it while you blast away with the big guns.
^Thanks...sounds 'simple yet elegant' as the kids say. In reading up on it I see that players can also set up ship to ship engagements, which sounds fun.
Another good thing about S&I - it has most of the vessels from the whole war available for use. Whereas Jutland only has a specific set that were available in the North Sea for a specific one year period, and you gotta buy rather expensive DLC to expand your stable.
Don't get me wrong, Jutland is a great game for many reasons. But it's just more difficult to issue orders via it's UI, and you tend to be pushed into using it's 2D map for such things anyway. The actual orders pop-up can be quite confusing, too. However, if you want some extra 3D eye candy, you'll want to go the Jutland route. Otherwise, if you can't get into the whole thing without seeing big explosions in 3D, then you'll have problems getting into S&I. Jutland's 3D graphics aren't anything amazing at all, but it does have them.
There is a demo (locked) version of Jutland, if you've not tried that either. You gotta install the StormPowered client and then you can just tell it to install. I'd say give them both a try and see, if you want to see big guns go BOOM.
^I can live without the big explosions and the client. But I still want to hear more about what makes each vessel different in S&I, etc. Jutland is off the table for me so it's really S&I or nothing.
Quote from: Gusington on February 16, 2013, 04:59:44 PM
I haven't seen any shots of Steam and Iron that don't look like a spreadsheet. How does this game draw you in?
Try these out:
Other Wargames: Steam and Iron (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC0B7E1E012583E22)
Thanks.
I played them both and RJW was just about right for the engine. Jutland was just too big to handle everything going on at once in the large fleet battles. SAI allows you to fight any large naval battle from WWI easily. The AI controls a large part of your fleet and you give it specific division orders and you just drive the ships directly under your control. It works very well. A huge battle like Jutland is easily playable and you can concentrate on getting into favorable shooting position against the enemy, withdrawing, or whatever. The system is easy to learn and time can be compressed to turn that hour long close on the enemy into a few seconds. Plus virtually every ship pre or post dreadnaught is included. Battles go from 1912-1919 and include mining ops, shore bombardments, subs, merchants etc. If these guys get the campaign done right, this one will be a classic. The ideal game would be the look of Jutland along with the ease of use of SAI.
I had forgot that Herman had made some video AARs. 8)
There has been more updates since the versions he ran in those, but there are few noticeable features added since most of it was under the hood (and the campaign beta).
Gus, just play what you have, bro. ::)
^Never! What is the ETA for the campaign?
If you only get one game of WWI naval combat, there's no question in my mind that it should be Steam & Iron - and this is from a guy that was up until 2AM this morning playing Jutland.
I'll second the comments about the easy-to-use UI. In fact, I found it so simple to use that initially I thought the game lacked depth. To me, it *isn't* work to play this game at all, at least not in terms of dealing with the UI. It can be "work" in that it nicely models some of the C3 issues a WWI admiral would have had to deal with, but that's part of the appeal of the game for me.
I've yet to play a really large engagement in Jutland, but I'd agree with Nefaro that the UI in that game doesn't lend itself nearly as well to giving division orders as SAI does. Herman's videos are actually quite nice at illustrating the differences in the various levels of command, too (his Harpoon tutorials are great as well, if you want to pick up that game).
I guess the best thing I can say about SAI is that if you want to fight a WWI dreadnought battle and concentrate on the battle, SAI is the gold standard. There are also a huge number of scenarios, many, many ships, and it looks like the campaign is just going to be icing on the cake.
One thing I really am enjoying if fighting an engagement in SAI and then doing the same in Jutland. Really helps in understanding what went on. Off to do exactly this for Coronel right now...
^Thanks panzerde.
ETA For the campaign is Feb. or March. I hope Feb.
I've posted an AAR of the Steam and Iron Coronel scenario at my blog. Hopefully it shows a bit about what makes this game such a gem.
https://cryhavoc.squarespace.com/blog/2013/2/17/coronel-aar-1-steam-and-iron (https://cryhavoc.squarespace.com/blog/2013/2/17/coronel-aar-1-steam-and-iron)
Quote from: panzerde on February 17, 2013, 01:38:53 PM
It can be "work" in that it nicely models some of the C3 issues a WWI admiral would have had to deal with, but that's part of the appeal of the game for me.
It is a real shame that there is not MP for SaI. It would be great to play Jutland co-operatively as either Jellicoe or Beatty and have another player be the other Admiral. Jutland is not too difficult (even in Admiral mode) if you can still control the actions of the BC squadron as well as the Grand Fleet.
The inability to instantaneous share a situation map would be marvelous as both groups would be pretty much out of contact with one another. :)
One thing that has always bothered me about Jutland's mechanics, despite being quite deep with a lot of modelling under the hood, is that they pretty much make Light Cruiser vs Light Cruiser battles ineffective. Claiming that CLs didn't have the capability to penetrate the armor of other CLs, and modelling it so, always rubs me the wrong way especially since there are cases of WWI CLs causing heavy damage against others of their like, in the historical record. As modelled in-game, they just shoot away at each other with HE shells and do practically nothing until they're out of ammo. ::)
I could complain a bit about how S&I has a bit too much German-centric crew quality rankings in it's scenarios when their fleet's advantageous differences lie elsewhere (faster straddling due to their fire control and some damage control advantages). It just strikes me as wrong that they're given a universal crew quality advantage over the Brits when the German battle fleet sat in harbor, and sailed much less, than the British one. I'd expect crew quality to be purely crew experience & training so not being out on the sea surely restricted both of those. I'm not sure how much Jutland suffers from this but it obviously has the poor British shells and powder handling factored in (and somewhat adjustable) although I believe their powder handling penalty for catastrophic hits were kinda skewed towards the exceptionally high rate of the British Battlecruiser magazine explosions as opposed to the fleet as a whole (and it is applied to the fleet as a whole, unfortunately). So.. there are things I'd like to make adjustments to on both, I suppose.
I'm still not clear on something: Does SAI have any sort of "grand campaign" and/or sandbox-style map? Or is it mostly a number of missions/battles?
Quote from: Martok on February 18, 2013, 05:52:16 AM
I'm still not clear on something: Does SAI have any sort of "grand campaign" and/or sandbox-style map? Or is it mostly a number of missions/battles?
To my knowledge, campaign is in beta mode but will be released this month or march.
Quote from: Martok on February 18, 2013, 05:52:16 AM
I'm still not clear on something: Does SAI have any sort of "grand campaign" and/or sandbox-style map? Or is it mostly a number of missions/battles?
It currently has historical scenarios, a random battle generator, editors for both ships and scenarios, and a late beta stage campaign covering the Russian and German sparring in the Baltic (free with the original game purchase). The North Sea campaign will soon be released as an expansion for $15 (?).
From what I've seen of the campaign beta, you will be given regular objectives to accomplish and you can commit whatever units you want to each one, which becomes a scenario you play out in the normal game mode. Another big advantage of having the rather spartan-looking 2D look is being able to cover a huge amount of space and ships so you can pretty much run all your vessels in the Baltic/North Sea/whatevah at one time since it's quite zoom-friendly. After the scenario is done, I think you get some points for repairs, purchases, etc and you proceed through the next time period & operation. One extra advantage of their campaign system is that the missions are varied, but have a purpose at any one time, and you get to make purchasing decisions regarding your command. It's essentially a scenario generator with a lot of input and continuity.
I forgot to add - another thing S&I does better than the rest: Fog of War. It's very important for naval battles and they did a good job with it, especially regarding low visibility situations and some command & control limits.
Nefaro, with your interest in the dreadnaught era, you would very likely enjoy Norman Friedman's book, Naval Firepower
http://www.amazon.com/Naval-Firepower-Battleship-Gunnery-Dreadnaught/dp/1591145554
He has done some very deep research that is very well presented. In particular, he has found an instruction from Jellicoe from after Jutland which outlines why the BCs were prone to explosions. Contrary to regulations, they were storing up to five rounds within the turret. In this way, they had a faster rate of firepower and hoped this would get them the first hit.
Of course, the problem was that if you had a turret penetration, the stored shells and propellant resulted in a secondary explosion that was more powerful than the shell that penetrated. This secondary explosion overcame the flashback safeguards, and resulted in the magazine explosions we are so aware of.
This could be used as a game device, wherein the historical BCs might have a higher rate of fire, but greater chance of magazine explosion, or you could choose to follow regulations and have a slower rate of fire, but a much smaller chance of a magazine explosion.
^I just watched a documentary on Jutland yesterday. The British also left all of their safety doors open between compartments during the battle, which also resulted in the three battecruisers exploding, which would have otherwise not have happened if hit. I did not know how sloppy the British were during Jutland.
Quote from: besilarius on February 18, 2013, 02:23:30 PM
Nefaro, with your interest in the dreadnaught era, you would very likely enjoy Norman Friedman's book, Naval Firepower
http://www.amazon.com/Naval-Firepower-Battleship-Gunnery-Dreadnaught/dp/1591145554
He has done some very deep research that is very well presented. In particular, he has found an instruction from Jellicoe from after Jutland which outlines why the BCs were prone to explosions. Contrary to regulations, they were storing up to five rounds within the turret. In this way, they had a faster rate of firepower and hoped this would get them the first hit.
Of course, the problem was that if you had a turret penetration, the stored shells and propellant resulted in a secondary explosion that was more powerful than the shell that penetrated. This secondary explosion overcame the flashback safeguards, and resulted in the magazine explosions we are so aware of.
This could be used as a game device, wherein the historical BCs might have a higher rate of fire, but greater chance of magazine explosion, or you could choose to follow regulations and have a slower rate of fire, but a much smaller chance of a magazine explosion.
Oh, yes, I know of the ammo storage problem with the British BCs and the gun crew training that promoted such catastrophic explosions. Both of these WWI naval games just blanket the whole British navy with the same very high rate of quick insta-kill critical hits on turrets when it should only be that high for the BC force IMO. When I play scenarios in Jutland and S&I, I often see Battleships and notably Armored Cruisers just exploding within a very short period of time and with nasty regularity even in smaller scenarios. It shouldn't be quite that high for the rest of the fleet. :-\ Mix that super-explody rate with the similarly nationwide blanketed crew quality advantages to the German side, and it's blown a bit out of proportion overall. I suppose it's often justified due balancing reasons regarding the British superiority in numbers. ::)
Did you guys get the download or the physical copy? How is the printed manual?
<- Download. I was an early adoptee.
The PDF manuals have been updated at least once after updates, and a new one created regarding the Campaign. I'm not too worried about printed manuals anymore as I got a Kindle Fire last year and that's about all I use it for - masses of PDF manuals and a few books.
I found the manual to be informative but it still isn't terribly huge as some wargames. Straight to the point of what does what, although I don't recall it having listed all the specifics going on under the hood (like an exhaustive list of fire modifiers, for example). But it does a good job of telling you how to play.
I think the manuals can be downloaded by anyone, on the NWS forum, if you want to check it out.
Hmm let's check. Either way, when available I still like the option of a disk.
I think the size of the game install file was something like 3-5mb....very tiny. You can easily download and put on cd if needed. I don't believe the physical cd version comes with anything special like printed manuals.
^Ah ok. Kinda disappointing.
Quote from: Gusington on February 18, 2013, 08:36:01 PM
^Ah ok. Kinda disappointing.
Don't let the size fool you. It's a good game, but very non-graphics oriented. Instead you should kick back and enjoy the show as these behemoths blast each other out of the water.
Hey Gus. When you think you're really good, try playing the HMCS Rainbow vs the Leipzig. I went 0 for 4 against her.
@Gus,
If you want to know everything that went wrong at Jutland for the Brits, read Rules of the Game[/i ]by Andrew Gordon.
Quote from: Bismarck on February 19, 2013, 12:00:47 PM
@Gus,
If you want to know everything that went wrong at Jutland for the Brits, read Rules of the Game[/i ]by Andrew Gordon.
Found it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1591143365/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1591143365&linkCode=as2&tag=grogheads-20
Thanks Bismarck, LB and Slash. I really fell for the propaganda and thought Jutland was a clear Brit victory...before I started to look more closely and found out about the battlecruisers. Turns out I knew next to nothing!
I marvel at Jellicoe's comb AWAY from the German torpedoes.
Quote from: Gusington on February 19, 2013, 01:35:14 PM
Thanks Bismarck, LB and Slash. I really fell for the propaganda and thought Jutland was a clear Brit victory...before I started to look more closely and found out about the battlecruisers. Turns out I knew next to nothing!
Clearly the RN lost since they didn't annihilate the High Seas Fleet when it presented itself in a pretty suicidal way. The book
the
Rules of the Game describes the suicidal moves of the HSF and the blunders the RN made. Basically Beatty (not Jellico)
fouled up his handling of the 5th BS thanks to not understanding Evan-Thomas (and vs versa). Beatty then led the HSF into
a horrific trap which Jellico sprang as well as it could have been sprung given the overall aims of the Grand Fleet. But the author concludes in a strangely
surreal and strangely moving paragraph that it was still a battle that served the purposes of Great Britian. He says something like,
"All of the blunders and flaws of the RN don't cancel the fact that after Jutland, the Grand Fleet could have substituted giant cardboard
cut-outs for warships and the Germans still would have run for their lives."
Oh, battlecruisers -- well the RN battlecruisers did their jobs, found the main body of the HSF and led it into a trap.
The German scouting force (battlecruisers) let the RN battlecruisers (and cruisers) spot the main body of the HSF and then let the main body of the HSF steam right into the massed broadsides of the Grand Fleet. The RN lost 2 old BCs (Inflexible and Invincible) and one very fine BC the Queen Mary. The Germans lost the very fine Lutzow and almost lost the Seydlitz (damaged about as much as a ship could be and still make a very near-by port). if Beatty had been more careful keeping control of the 5th BS then probably some of that could have been avoided, but as things were the RN BCs did a good scouting job and the German BCs did not.
You know, you guys and your recommendations don't help my budget at all. Not only have I added more games in the past week I don't have time to play, now you having me adding books to my stack I don't have time to read. ;D
Took a stab at Dogger Bank last night at Admiral difficulty. Things got very confused, very quickly. I did manage to pound one German BC into scrap, but still hadn't sunk her by the time I had to give it up for the night.
You gave up for the night? man, they're not making gamers the way they used to. ;)
Quote from: Bismarck on February 19, 2013, 07:49:50 PM
You gave up for the night? man, they're not making gamers the way they used to. ;)
I'm an old man now, can't play until dawn like I used to! Having said that it was after midnight, and I had been up until nearly 2AM both nights before...
I can tell I still have some of the old addiction though when I finish up a game of Jutland around 12, and say to myself "Yeah, I have time to get through a Harpoon tutorial or two before I go to bed!"
Quote from: panzerde on February 19, 2013, 07:45:55 PM
Took a stab at Dogger Bank last night at Admiral difficulty. Things got very confused, very quickly. I did manage to pound one German BC into scrap, but still hadn't sunk her by the time I had to give it up for the night.
I dunno how many times I've beat some German ship to death and couldn't sink or cripple them before running out of ammo, even well outgunning them. >:( My last game was the two British BCs against the two German CAs at the Battle of the Falklands and after both were out of ammo I had only managed to score Medium damage on them and they were still making speed just fine. I'm convinced that the German damage control teams consisted of highly advanced aliens who could get any stricken turret back up and running in eight minutes or less and repair engine damage in their sleep. :P
Can orders be given to ram enemy ships?
Quote from: Gusington on February 20, 2013, 08:32:29 AM
Can orders be given to ram enemy ships?
Ramming? Gus, you're truly old school. How about boarding parties or cutting a dreadnaught out of Wilhelmshaven?
Ah, Gus, you would enjoy one of the great characters of the Royal Navy, E.R.G.R. Evans.
One of the survivors of disastrous Scott expedition to Antarctica, he was sent back because he came down with scurvy, thus saving his life.
During World War I, he commanded HMS Broke (you remember him, the chap that captured USS Chesapeake in the War of 1812 - James Lawrence crying "Don't give up the ship." and all.) during the battle of the Dover Straits. He torpedoed two german destroyers, and then rammed one.
Stuck into the rammed ship, he actually had his crew break out boarding cutlasses to fight off the germans. However, his crew came up with the expedient of throwing steaming hot mugs of cocoa at the Huns to drive them back.
Got into quite a bit of trouble over this, a clear violation of the Geneva Convention.
No orders to ram, no orders to strike your colors or abondon ship that I've seen. Ships also won't collide with each other of the same side, perhaps with enemy ships you can. If one of your ships sinks, you can detail a ship to pick-up survivors. I also don't believe there are any reefs or any way to run aground in the game but can't remember for sure. The game's been patched a bunch since it came out and alots been added. Also when one of your BC's blows-up, you have to scream "Mother F#@*ER!!!" at the screen your self as there are no keyboard commands for this.
Oh, those wacky Brits!
I scream at my monitor all the time. The option to ram would be keen...really show the opposing side who's boss. A hot cocoa raid would be even better. Maybe the option to tickle the other side with feathers too.
Quote from: besilarius on February 20, 2013, 10:17:27 AM
Ah, Gus, you would enjoy one of the great characters of the Royal Navy, E.R.G.R. Evans.
One of the survivors of disastrous Scott expedition to Antarctica, he was sent back because he came down with scurvy, thus saving his life.
During World War I, he commanded HMS Broke (you remember him, the chap that captured USS Chesapeake in the War of 1812 - James Lawrence crying "Don't give up the ship." and all.) during the battle of the Dover Straits. He torpedoed two german destroyers, and then rammed one.
Stuck into the rammed ship, he actually had his crew break out boarding cutlasses to fight off the germans. However, his crew came up with the expedient of throwing steaming hot mugs of cocoa at the Huns to drive them back.
Got into quite a bit of trouble over this, a clear violation of the Geneva Convention.
Ah, the old hot cocoa trick.
I tried this once with Rice Crispy Treats but got different results.
Quote from: Gusington on February 20, 2013, 08:32:29 AM
Can orders be given to ram enemy ships?
I don't think you can deliberately ram. However, I seem to recall a number of reported collisions.
Hmm ok then I'll just say I did it on purpose :)
The RN is trained to brew extra-strength assault cocoa for when things get rough, and often wade into a boarding action with specially sharpened ships-biscuits.
I thought everyone knew that.
Quote from: Herman Hum on February 20, 2013, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: Gusington on February 20, 2013, 08:32:29 AM
Can orders be given to ram enemy ships?
I don't think you can deliberately ram. However, I seem to recall a number of reported collisions.
+1
Ramming usually resulted in me being rammed. I can't recall it being a good tactic - for me.
Quote from: Nefaro on February 19, 2013, 11:25:07 PM
I dunno how many times I've beat some German ship to death and couldn't sink or cripple them before running out of ammo, even well outgunning them. >:( My last game was the two British BCs against the two German CAs at the Battle of the Falklands and after both were out of ammo I had only managed to score Medium damage on them and they were still making speed just fine. I'm convinced that the German damage control teams consisted of highly advanced aliens who could get any stricken turret back up and running in eight minutes or less and repair engine damage in their sleep. :P
This, in spades. Clearly the German ships are made of adamantium. To be fair, I had to actually circle HMS Glasgow with both German CAs and a CL and shell her steadily for about 20 minutes even after I'd knocked he speed down to 5 knots in the Coronel scenario. I nearly ran both CAs out of ammo sinking three ships. But yes, German damage control seems almost supernatural.
OTOH I can't even seem to get the RN to hit the German ships most of the time when playing Jutland. It's also a bit head-scratch inducing to be told in the scenario status update, before even my scout forces have engaged, that my best course of action is to preserve my force and withdraw. This in a theoretically balanced scenario between a DD, a CL, and two BBs on each side.
Still, both games are great fun, despite some occasional WTF moments.
Gus, since you are so interested in ramming, you should look up the Battle of Lissa.
Outnumbered by the Italians, the Austrians adopted the ramming tactic, and actually did catch one enemy ironclad. Of course, they were in the middle of changing course, and fighting a fire, so they were a bit distracted.
The navy that got the most out of ramming was the Royal Navy. They sank more of their own ships than anybody else did. The most famous example was in the Mediterranean, when Victoria and Camperdown ran into each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_ram
^Gotcha covered...I am currently reading this
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1847244165/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It is simply an amazing title, and Lissa is included. Note the price asked. I got my copy for $7.59 :)
I also have the 1750-1850 book. Both are incredible.
Wow...that is insane cost of a book...you got an awesome deal!
The books are about twice the size of a standard coffee table book. They probably weigh about 30 pounds each. And are packed with the most beautiful naval themed paintings and photos I've ever seen...museum quality. My daughters actually like looking through them with me too...they are special books.
Quote from: panzerde on February 20, 2013, 07:39:44 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on February 19, 2013, 11:25:07 PM
I dunno how many times I've beat some German ship to death and couldn't sink or cripple them before running out of ammo, even well outgunning them. >:( My last game was the two British BCs against the two German CAs at the Battle of the Falklands and after both were out of ammo I had only managed to score Medium damage on them and they were still making speed just fine. I'm convinced that the German damage control teams consisted of highly advanced aliens who could get any stricken turret back up and running in eight minutes or less and repair engine damage in their sleep. :P
This, in spades. Clearly the German ships are made of adamantium. To be fair, I had to actually circle HMS Glasgow with both German CAs and a CL and shell her steadily for about 20 minutes even after I'd knocked he speed down to 5 knots in the Coronel scenario. I nearly ran both CAs out of ammo sinking three ships. But yes, German damage control seems almost supernatural.
OTOH I can't even seem to get the RN to hit the German ships most of the time when playing Jutland. It's also a bit head-scratch inducing to be told in the scenario status update, before even my scout forces have engaged, that my best course of action is to preserve my force and withdraw. This in a theoretically balanced scenario between a DD, a CL, and two BBs on each side.
Still, both games are great fun, despite some occasional WTF moments.
The
Glasgow resilience was likely due to the crew quality being higher than the rest, in that scenario. It's the same effect the whole German navy gets due to their blanket-bonus to crew quality.
So, basically, it sounds like higher crew quality makes a little
too much damage recovery possible. Check each ship's damage logs after the battle, you'll see that ze German vessels typically repair criticals pretty damn quickly. :-\
I'm pretty sure Jutland has a similar effect but maybe just not as pronounced.
Quote from: Gusington on February 20, 2013, 09:40:41 PM
The books are about twice the size of a standard coffee table book. They probably weigh about 30 pounds each. And are packed with the most beautiful naval themed paintings and photos I've ever seen...museum quality. My daughters actually like looking through them with me too...they are special books.
Price makes sense then...how did you only pay $7? Must have been in the right place at the right time.
I am a skilled Amazon lurker :)
Quote from: Gusington on February 20, 2013, 09:59:45 PM
I am a skilled Amazon lurker :)
*cough* special favors *cough*
Way to drag this clean thread into the gutter of your mind.
Quote from: Gusington on February 20, 2013, 10:41:27 PM
Way to drag this clean thread into the gutter of your mind.
Just trying to make you feel at home, in the mind-gutter. ;)
Now I'll never be able to cruise Amazon again without feeling like you're watching me. Amazon does have some really great deals. When O'Reiily's book, "Killing Lincoln" came-out, I got it 50% off at Amazon- brand new.
I'm watching you even when you're not on Amazon and your online behavior is just astounding.
Sorry. Didn't know you could see that.
It's when you don't think that I'm watching that you are at your most interesting.
Eepycray-o-meter now at 110%
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQjeqL5S-yiDNnXPiR3xlRID29JObVtUq6cvkrNCrPtINRIQiXeLw&hash=29daa21fbdde44613b17aff24b7202ddbd221a32)
How many fingers am I holding-up?
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 21, 2013, 10:49:33 PM
How many fingers am I holding-up?
The answer is obviously exhibit A)
The Shocker(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bored383.com%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2FRandom%2Fthe_shocker.jpg&hash=bfc167b5c7e7fcb082664bb9c0f8669d32abdb17)
Quote from: Nefaro on February 21, 2013, 11:05:05 PM
The answer is obviously exhibit A) The Shocker
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bored383.com%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2FRandom%2Fthe_shocker.jpg&hash=bfc167b5c7e7fcb082664bb9c0f8669d32abdb17)
Aaaaannnnd...Nefaro wins the internets for the day. :o
HAHA that is so disturbingly great.
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 21, 2013, 10:49:33 PM
How many fingers am I holding-up?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhalfwaytoconcord.worldview.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2Fits_a_trap_star_wars.jpg&hash=fb57b123bbd6984018f07d420c7663004ee3a4e5)
Don't pull it, Gus!
Damn! You're right. Amazing! You can only see me when I'm on the computer, right?
Nope.
You should work for the government hunting terrorists. Or.... maybe you already do. :o
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 22, 2013, 11:06:38 AM
You should work for the government hunting terrorists. Or.... maybe you already do. :o
There's better money chasing gamers. More of them, too.
Working on it...got the government part down. :)