Why, oh why, does the game insist on starting me right next to another race's homeworld (relatively speaking)? With only a dozen races distributed among a thousand star systems over 225 sectors (on a 15x15 map), you'd think we could be a little more evenly spread out.
Argh.
Some games thoughtfully include an option to ensure races are evenly spaced out; Space Empires 4 comes to mind and I'm fairly sure Endless Space includes the option too. But yeah, for those that don't it's a bit of an oversight, and not limited to space-based games either.
And Distant Worlds from what I recall
As a matter of fact, Distant Worlds is the game that just did this to me...which is what makes it doubly frustrating, as it's a newer release (just over 2 years old).
Games that are several years older (such as Galactic Civilizations 2 and Sword of the Stars) generally don't have this problem, and even fairly ancient 4x titles like Birth of the Federation and Spaceward Ho! IV usually do a better job of equitably distributing homeworlds' starting locations. So to see this kind of thing in DW makes me especially crazy.
I always read about how creating algorithms for reasonably-spaced starting locations are tricky in 4x titles. While I don't doubt for a second that it is indeed difficult, I don't understand why some newer games seem to have issues with this (for another example, Armada 2526 has this issue as well, as much as I love it otherwise). Oh well.
Sometimes in the universe the bugs who want to destroy humanity are in the solar system next door. And sometimes the kiadians are on a system in between.
^Those SpaceBugs wouldn't be tech-tree researching toward Guides Asteroid Strikes, now would they?
Alpha Centauri is also bad about starting players too close. Even if you choose a large or huge planet.
I'm glad Huw brought up Space Empires 4. I sometimes am sad that no game yet has come up with the "I can do anything" aspect of that game. You can create and destroy entire solar systems once your on the top of the tech tree. Its the only game that once your on the top of the tech tree you really feel like your working with technology thousands and thousands of years separated from us today. Ala the Ancients from Babylon 5 or the Protheans from Mass Effect.
I wish a 4x game would have an Anno 1404/Dawn of Discovery style resource chain. Need x and y for z, need z and a for b, etc. It would really give you a REASON to explore and hold worlds. We also need limited resources. Limited resources actually make for more fun games. But the game needs to communicate with you, like Anno. You need a grid of resources and green for surplus generation red for deficit spending, so you can see quickly "Ahh, I need more unobtainable, gotta go nuke the Navi"
Thats my rant.
Republic, that's why SE4 remains one of my all-time favourite games. You said it really well. It does mean that I rarely finish a game of course, but by god I have fun while I'm playing! I've yet to see a game with the sheer breadth of options that SE4 has. I love it.
Talk about over-correcting...
In my newest campaign I began an hour ago, the game put me on the very eastern edge of the map. The only way I could be any more on the ass-end of space would be if I'd started in a corner. *sigh*
Oh well. We'll see how it goes.
Quote from: Staggerwing on February 17, 2013, 08:30:36 AM
^Those SpaceBugs wouldn't be tech-tree researching toward Guides Asteroid Strikes, now would they?
Yeah, but it's okay. I'll just get Casper Van Dien and Michael Ironside as troop generals; they can take it from there. 8)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 17, 2013, 09:38:47 AM
Republic, that's why SE4 remains one of my all-time favourite games. You said it really well. It does mean that I rarely finish a game of course, but by god I have fun while I'm playing! I've yet to see a game with the sheer breadth of options that SE4 has. I love it.
I wanted to love SEIV, but it was too much for me. The very breadth of options you so love (and for which I can easily see the appeal, don't get me wrong) completely overwhelmed me...and that was just playing the demo!
Quote from: Martok on February 17, 2013, 09:57:09 AM
In my newest campaign I began an hour ago, the game put me on the very eastern edge of the map. The only way I could be any more on the ass-end of space would be if I'd started in a corner. *sigh*
Oh well. We'll see how it goes.
There's just no pleasing some people! ;D
QuoteI wanted to love SEIV, but it was too much for me. The very breadth of options you so love (and for which I can easily see the appeal, don't get me wrong) completely overwhelmed me...and that was just playing the demo!
Yeah it did take me a bloody long time to get into it, I must admit. Totally worth it though!
Quote from: Martok on February 17, 2013, 09:57:09 AM
Quote from: Staggerwing on February 17, 2013, 08:30:36 AM
^Those SpaceBugs wouldn't be tech-tree researching toward Guides Asteroid Strikes, now would they?
Yeah, but it's okay. I'll just get Casper Van Dien and Michael Ironside as troop generals; they can take it from there. 8)
I was also thinking of RL Current events. :D
I thought DW had an option to start close/near/far to other civs - no?
This is a pet peeve of mine with distant worlds as well. I would love an editor that would allow me to place the races. Also, a slider to reduce the availability of resources
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 17, 2013, 12:35:50 PM
I thought DW had an option to start close/near/far to other civs - no?
Yes, it does, and it works!
I think I may have played SE 3 and SE 4 more than any other space game.
I loved building training facilities and training ships and then fleets.
I have not seen any other 4X type game that does that.
You can spend money to train your guys/bugs/snails to be better warriors.
Plus you could put mines or forts on jump points and not tie up ships guarding them.
Designing your own vehicles of every kind from scouts to satellites to battleships
was cool and I do not know but this series was one of the first to allow it.
Hmm I never realized the Space Empire games were so deep. This conversation is seriously tempting me to pick up SE IV on steam for $10...
Was SE V just terrible? What MOO3 was to that series?
SE V has a braindead AI, but works pretty well as a PBEM game.
Especially with Kwok's balance mod.
I have no idea about SE 4 because I do not have it, but from what I read it has a functional AI at least and it has less features, but as a result they work a lot better than the sheer amount of stuff that is in SE V.
I have had no issues with DW's spacing yet. It indeed has an option to force the game to spread Empires.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 17, 2013, 02:44:32 PM
Hmm I never realized the Space Empire games were so deep. This conversation is seriously tempting me to pick up SE IV on steam for $10...
Was SE V just terrible? What MOO3 was to that series?
SE4 is utterly brilliant, and although the graphics are rudimentary the game still looks OK today compared to other games from the same era. Just be prepared for a learning curve! There are loads of mods available for it too. You might also want to check the fan community for hacks, such as editing the ini file to increase the maximum number of systems on a map.
SE5 is fine in theory (about a million patches were released for it) however many people, myself included, cannot get it to run properly on Windows 7. That's the reason I play 4.
In the UK SE4 is slightly cheaper at Gamersgate so you might want to check there too.
Quote from: Yskonyn on February 17, 2013, 03:03:12 PM
I have no idea about SE 4 because I do not have it, but from what I read it has a functional AI at least and it has less features, but as a result they work a lot better than the sheer amount of stuff that is in SE V.
I'm struggling to think of features 5 has that 4 doesn't...?
The only thing SE5 has is realtime combat if I remember right, but I prefer turn based. I also can't get it to run properly, it runs at like 10 fps and often overheats a laptop if I play it on that. SE4 works better and I like the more abstract graphics.
I think of SE4 as a rudimentary trainer for Aurora. Though the AI can't really match a human for creative designs. I can recall many times getting the jump point creator/destroyer and bottling up my enemies while I recoup. Though you really have to watch, a single ship with that super tech can cripple your entire empire.
Quote from: Rayfer on February 17, 2013, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 17, 2013, 12:35:50 PM
I thought DW had an option to start close/near/far to other civs - no?
Yes, it does, and it works!
Sometimes...other times I get weird results like everyone. But me crammed in a corner
My problem with SEIV was that I almost always got wiped out before I really got a chance to develop. But I definitely saw the potential there. I still find a modded MOO3 to be one of the best overall space 4x game ever made.
Quote from: Yskonyn on February 17, 2013, 03:03:12 PM
SE V has a braindead AI, but works pretty well as a PBEM game.
Especially with Kwok's balance mod.
I have no idea about SE 4 because I do not have it, but from what I read it has a functional AI at least and it has less features, but as a result they work a lot better than the sheer amount of stuff that is in SE V.
I have had no issues with DW's spacing yet. It indeed has an option to force the game to spread Empires.
SE5 also had serious framerate issues running on WinVista & Win7, from what I've seen reported. The fps drops so low, it's a pain in the ass to use the interface. :-[
Yes, in my experience SE5 is unplayable on Windows 7 (a shame because it was a birthday present from my lady and I got many hours of entertainment out of it before "upgrading" to Windows 7). Some people have reported getting it to work with certain hacks, but none of them ever worked for me. But I don't mind that much because SE4 is still a fantastic game, it just looks older.
Aurora
I re-downloaded SE4 and went to the Steam page to kick around and look for add-ons. Who do I spy but this familiar face:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.youtube.com%2Fvi%2Fl8rjIhk3wTU%2F0.jpg&hash=99abf844a968f3e3ff24ced921f553feeda3c0d4)
All I can say is those are some damned scary looking aliens!
(and for anyone who doesn't know, this is our friend Son of Montfort) 8)
Grogs are everywhere!
Ah, I've seen that video! I had no idea it was Monty, although I knew it was a Grog - the vid was linked from the front page if I recall correctly.
Edit: It seems I am an idiot. It says right there (http://www.grogheads.com/vid-spaceempires.html) that it's by Monty. ;D
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 17, 2013, 10:02:07 AM
Quote from: Martok on February 17, 2013, 09:57:09 AM
In my newest campaign I began an hour ago, the game put me on the very eastern edge of the map. The only way I could be any more on the ass-end of space would be if I'd started in a corner. *sigh*
Oh well. We'll see how it goes.
There's just no pleasing some people! ;D
Yeah, I'm a whiner. :P
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 17, 2013, 02:44:32 PM
Was SE V just terrible? What MOO3 was to that series?
Looks like it. Malfador (the series developer) hasn't made a new Space Empires game since then, and no sequel has ever been announced.
Quote from: mikeck on February 17, 2013, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on February 17, 2013, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 17, 2013, 12:35:50 PM
I thought DW had an option to start close/near/far to other civs - no?
Yes, it does, and it works!
Sometimes...other times I get weird results like everyone. But me crammed in a corner
I seem to get mixed results with that option as well.
Strictly speaking, it generally works fine for *me*. However, what then often happens is that the other races start closer together (thus screwing the AI). I'd prefer
everyone's homeworld to be spaced out at least somewhat evenly. (No, it's probably not realistic, but it would be better from a gameplay perspective.)
SE5 wasn't terrible like Moo3 was, at least to me. SE5 was fun while I could play it, but once I moved to Win7 it was unplayable and not 'better enough' than SE4 to make me want to suffer through. SE4 has an almost 'cool retro' feel to it nowadays.
Moo3 was one of the only games I ever pre-ordered and paid for next day shipping...took off the day it was to arrive. It was actually a snowstorm and I had to meet the Fedex guy on the highway about a mile away to get the game. I took it home and worked on it for days before deciding there was something wrong with the game and not just that I didn't know how to play.
Love the story about meeting the FedEx guy in the snowstorm -- Jeez how spoiled are we nowadays with near insta-downloadable games??
What I would love right now is a space 4x that let's you take a leisurely pace to empire building -- almost more 'builder' than 4x' perhaps. Not sure what's wrong with me, but even with all the excellent titles out there, nothing is clicking with me at the moment --
-SotS2 -- excellent, deep, hard game that I love, but kinda OD'd on it for the time being
-Sins -- again, fantastic game, but heavily tilted toward combat that I find increasingly stressful rather than fun to handle...
-Endless Space -- slick game, but kinda shallow and doesn't really hold my interest, hate the repetitive combat
GalCiv2 -- Probably fits the bill of what I'm looking for, but slightly cartoony in a way I'm not in the mood for
Armada 2526 -- can't get into it...
Distant Worlds -- maybe this is the ticket, but the 2D presentation doesn't thrill me, and I find the pirates really, really annoying
Star Ruler -- Intrigues me -- in some ways feels like a cross of DW and Sins -- but seems to require a huge time commitment to master the steep learning curve, and I hate the blocky ships and slightly 'unfinished' feel of the game as a whole...
AI War -- not my cup of tea...
Anyway, just some musings... But if anyone has a 'you should really try x' suggestion, happy to hear it. Still pondering SE4 but Jarhead's warning that he gets wiped out before he can get established is actually exactly what I'm not looking for.
Quote from: republic on February 18, 2013, 07:32:45 AM
SE5 wasn't terrible like Moo3 was, at least to me. SE5 was fun while I could play it, but once I moved to Win7 it was unplayable and not 'better enough' than SE4 to make me want to suffer through.
Not sure if this comment was directed at me. Even if not, though, I'd like to clarify I agree SEV didn't seem to be as bad as MOO3, only that it was also apparently a "franchise-killer".
Quote from: republic on February 18, 2013, 07:32:45 AM
SE4 has an almost 'cool retro' feel to it nowadays.
Heck, SEIV had a bit of a retro look/feeling even back then. ;) Not that I'm complaining either way; it was part of its charm.
Quote from: republic on February 18, 2013, 07:32:45 AM
Moo3 was one of the only games I ever pre-ordered and paid for next day shipping...took off the day it was to arrive. It was actually a snowstorm and I had to meet the Fedex guy on the highway about a mile away to get the game. I took it home and worked on it for days before deciding there was something wrong with the game and not just that I didn't know how to play.
I didn't pre-order, but I did run to my nearest brick-and-mortar store (remember when we still had those?) to pick up a copy of MOO3 on release day. Took me the better part of a month before I finally realized I just wasn't having fun with it.
I keep thinking I really just need to toss it out. It seems like every time I'm finally ready to do so, however,
Anguille or
Jarhead start singing the praises of the chocolate/strawberry mods... Grr!
lol I understand Martok, I've read AARs about Moo3 and think "is this the same game? Maybe I should try it now!" but then I remember spending days trying to figure out why I had hundreds of troop transports but no warships.
I think the best analog for Moo3 in my mind would be Sword of the Stars 2. Some people can overlook the shortcomings and find a gem...but unfortunately I'm not one of them.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 18, 2013, 09:18:29 AM
GalCiv2 -- Probably fits the bill of what I'm looking for, but slightly cartoony in a way I'm not in the mood for
For me, it wasn't the cartoonish look exactly, but the "wink-and-nod" sense of humor the game had. I *did* find it amusing, don't get me wrong, but it also detracted from the immersion factor.
Unless you're playing a silly beer-and-pretzels title like
Spaceward Ho!, you generally want a serious tone in your space 4x games. And
GalCiv2's in-games jokes about it being...a game really hurt my willing suspension of disbelief.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 18, 2013, 09:18:29 AM
Armada 2526 -- can't get into it...
Can I ask what it was that kept you from getting into it? Gameplay? Aesthetics? Something else?
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 18, 2013, 09:18:29 AM
Distant Worlds -- maybe this is the ticket, but the 2D presentation doesn't thrill me, and I find the pirates really, really annoying
Well you can always set the pirates to "Low" or even "None" in the game's settings (same with space monsters, if that also isn't your thing). Or is it the way they're implemented that bothers you?
I can understand the 2D issue not being everyone's cup of tea, though. It personally doesn't bother me, but I can certainly see how that might to be a turn-off to some folks.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 18, 2013, 09:18:29 AM
Still pondering SE4 but Jarhead's warning that he gets wiped out before he can get established is actually exactly what I'm not looking for.
If it makes you feel any better, that's never happened to me. Besides, there's a stupidly large number of options to start the game with. Hell, you can play on the biggest map with only one opponent and just build your way to half the galaxy. By the time you meet your opponent you'll have the game out of your system anyway! ;)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 18, 2013, 09:51:31 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 18, 2013, 09:18:29 AM
Still pondering SE4 but Jarhead's warning that he gets wiped out before he can get established is actually exactly what I'm not looking for.
If it makes you feel any better, that's never happened to me. Besides, there's a stupidly large number of options to start the game with. Hell, you can play on the biggest map with only one opponent and just build your way to half the galaxy. By the time you meet your opponent you'll have the game out of your system anyway! ;)
I would be remiss if I did not mention the simple possibility that this happens to me just because I suck.
I picked up Star Ruler over the holidays when it was on sale for some blue coins at Gamersgate. I just got around to learning it recently and once I figured out how to actually build ships I'm having a good time with it. I turned pirates off for now, and set the opponents on easy while I work my kinks out. I enjoy colonization just as any space 4x, but it does pressure you to keep expanding at a break neck speed in order to keep up with your opponents. There is enough technology and possible combos of armaments for ships that I feel it will take me awhile to explore all the alternatives, which should be fun.
@Martok -- my reactions to Armada 2526 are admittedly of the knee-jerk variety. Based on little more than my firing it up a few times, going through the tutorial, and just not feeling drawn into it. The 2D combat was definitely a turn off.
I know you are a big proponent of this game --I'm sure there is a ton that I am missing out on. But just seems to lack that spark of magic that makes me want to spend more time with it.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 18, 2013, 09:56:35 AM
I would be remiss if I did not mention the simple possibility that this happens to me just because I suck.
ah, but this is how I usually handicap myself as a strategy gamer, so there's a high probability of my having the same experience ...
What are some of the "must have" SEIV mods?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 18, 2013, 05:36:32 PM
What are some of the "must have" SEIV mods?
Yeah. Thanks JH I was trying to think of that. There are a bazillion mods for SE V but I do not know if any make it work right.
SE IV was made very moddable but I have no talent there.
Two of the best sites for SE4 mods. Captain Kwok'stuff is highly regarded.
http://www.spaceempires.net/
http://www.captainkwok.net/mods.php
I've heard of a Star Trek TOS mod, but not sure which version it applies to.
Well there are several threads on the Star Trek mods. I had it installed a few years ago, but I cannot remember all the details. Although spaceempires.net looks like it's an abandoned site; it's not. Sign up and ask a question and I bet it's answered in the next 24 hours.
Well, you could try "aurora". I haven't played in two years as I got fed up with the game when it goes into an almost endless loop when a ship was in combat somewhere (occasionally. They said this was fixed but I could never avoid it). Anyway, it has a huge learning curve and basically no graphics so Ymmv.
Funny, all the talk about Space Empires V got me thinking. I had the lag problems with SEV on Windows 7 and never really played it. So I now have Windows 8 and after reading this thread thought I would try it on that. Well, turns out it runs just fine! I also tried Call To Power and Call To Power 2 and both of those now run fine under Windows 8 (they wouldn't under Windows 7)!
I also tried to install Space Empires IV Deluxe but I can't see to find my serial key. :-[
DW is good, but it needs a lot of UI and game play improvements.
UI Improvements - DW suffers like most 4x type games, the UI works well in the beginning and middle games but doesnt scale at all in the later game. Some other issues is the ship design screen, having to open a screen for all ships (civilian and military) just to filter the military ships out.
Game improvements;
Economy or lack thereof. I know there is an economy, but is all behind the scenes. I have no feel for making my empire grow in the regard. I agree with Republic and I would love to see a Victoria type of economy where your population needed certain items and you felt the impact of both shortages and overages.
Blob combat. There are no ship formations, ships just jump in among enemy ships and start fighting. Eventually, there is no need to build smaller ships as there is no point. This is one thing that MOO3 did well, in forcing you to have to build escorts and picket ships for your capital ships.
I feel DW is more of military game and a true 4x at this point. I know there is a lot that you can do to turn off automation, but it just doesn't have an indepth feel for me.
BTW, DW:Shadows is coming out before too much longer, and its supposed to have the option to start before you have hyper capabilities, thus you deveop your own solar system first.
Quote from: bbmike on February 18, 2013, 08:13:18 PM
I also tried Call To Power and Call To Power 2 and both of those now run fine under Windows 8 (they wouldn't under Windows 7)!
I never had much trouble getting CTP2 to run on Windows 7. Infact, I posted this over on the Apolyton forums a few years ago. OH, how I wish someone would make a new version of CTP. In my opinion it kicks Civ's arse.
Quote from: mikeck on February 18, 2013, 07:20:26 PM
Well, you could try "aurora". I haven't played in two years as I got fed up with the game when it goes into an almost endless loop when a ship was in combat somewhere (occasionally. They said this was fixed but I could never avoid it). Anyway, it has a huge learning curve and basically no graphics so Ymmv.
its been updated and the graphics are old school Harpoonish but its a lot of fun.
I would like to add my two cents to this discussion. I think SEIII is better than SEIV. The primary reason is because the AI an SEIV is very passive while in SEIII the AI goes head hunting. The drawback of SEIII is the more primitive graghics and the concept of the Mega Evil Empire which causes all the empires in the game to declare war on you if your empire becomes to strong. This also exist in SEIV but can be modded out.
As far as Distant Worlds. I have had problems with this game frequently crashing to the desktop It has been on two different computers of mine . One a XP the other a Win 7. I also have Armada 2526. But for some reason have never felt comfordable with it.
I agree on SE3, but it doesn't play nice on 64bit systems nor do I believe you can still get a full copy of the game.
Going to start an "aurora" game again. Unfortunately, it's been so long I have to do the tutorials again. Damn you 4x thread!
Quote from: Bison on February 19, 2013, 05:40:38 PM
I agree on SE3, but it doesn't play nice on 64bit systems nor do I believe you can still get a full copy of the game.
Malfador Machination told me to copy the folder from a XP or Win 7 32 bit machine, than past it to the hard drive of a 64 bit Win 7 machine. It seems to work. I believe you can still order the full version at http://www.malfador.com/
I really wish you could up the Empire management screen on SEIV to 1920x1080. I think the battle screens do expand, but not the others. I also really wish SEV had not been such a train wreck. The SE games were the best 4X Space sims, but Malfador got overwhelmed or dropped the ball at the end.
while Ive never played it, Im sure there are graphic mods that let you have whatever res you want. google is your friend.
SEV is a very functional game with Captain Kwok's balance mod, at least in PBEM or Multiplayer.
I would be interested in starting a Grogheads PBEM for it here.
The AI is just braindead, though. Kwok's work makes it better and puts it somewhere in the realm of Dominions 3's AI performance, but the game is much better played MP alone.
For those of you having problems with SEV and Win7:
Make sure you select DirectX HAL T&L as renderer and always start as Administrator.
Enabling compatibility mode for XP SP3 helps too.
The flashing is caused by other programs with popups. Asus AI Suite is an example. Close it.
Task manager running in Windows causes flashing as well.
Furthermore:
You have a NVIDIA card? There are a few advanced settings you can set in the NVIDIA control panel that really make a difference with SE5 - you can set them just for se5.exe so they don't mess up your other games, too!
Maximum pre-rendered frames: Set this to the minimum of 1; anything more just abuses the GPU since SE5 is so inefficient. I think the default is 3.
Power management mode: Set this to "prefer maximum performance". The default "adaptive" mode seems to think that SE5 isn't using that much GPU power, so it throttles it, but that kills the game's performance.
Vertical sync: Set this to "on" or "adaptive" to improve the framerate slightly.
Triple buffering: Set this to "on" to improve the framerate slightly above that of plain old vertical sync.
SEIV does have graphics mods, but not to up the res of the menus.
This is over on the Matrix Forums and it sounds very promising improvement for DW
QuoteThe messaging and information regarding resource shortages is also greatly improved and planets now consume resources for their own growth needs whether they are building something or not.
Regards,
- Erik
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 17, 2013, 08:27:53 PM
Aurora
I've just installed 6.21. Never got started on it before, but I'm going to give it a real go this time.
take some advice and dont try a 1000 system game. in fact dont ever do that. in Aurora a 300 system game is big enough.
Quote from: OJsDad on February 22, 2013, 04:56:31 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 17, 2013, 08:27:53 PM
Aurora
I've just installed 6.21. Never got started on it before, but I'm going to give it a real go this time.
Yep, I installed it the other day and am going back through the tutorials. Haven't played in 2 years so I'm a little rusty. It is "spread sheet action" but you can't beat the realism of the combat and the ability to build anything...including stuff that ultimately, doesn't work
theres ultimately no super ship design so dont bother trying. mission specific designs do a lot better.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 22, 2013, 07:39:20 PM
theres ultimately no super ship design so dont bother trying. mission specific designs do a lot better.
That's one thing I love about this game. That's another thing that turns me off at some point in most 4x games is the super ships. While DW doesn't have formations, and not a huge reason to have smaller ships at some point, it does allow the smaller classes to grow as the game goes on. So an escort class ship may be bigger than an early game destroy by the end of the game. This kind of mirrors the Honor Harrington books.
todays US Navy destroyers are Cold War crusiers that would have been WW2 battle crusiers by weight.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 17, 2013, 08:27:53 PM
Aurora
That one still scares me, although I love the concept. Simply reading about it makes me feel completely overwhelmed. Where the heck does one even begin?
Quote from: OJsDad on February 21, 2013, 09:53:22 PM
This is over on the Matrix Forums and it sounds very promising improvement for DW
QuoteThe messaging and information regarding resource shortages is also greatly improved and planets now consume resources for their own growth needs whether they are building something or not.
Regards,
- Erik
I read that as well. Hopefully it'll help.
Quote from: OJsDad on February 22, 2013, 10:36:58 PM
That's another thing that turns me off at some point in most 4x games is the super ships.
I think that's one of the reasons why I still enjoy games like
Birth of the Federation and
Armada 2526 that lack ship design, and instead have predefined ship types -- there's a role for most vessels to play. Granted, you still need to balance them properly (and both games I just mentioned do have issues with this), but when done right, it's not only viable but almost essential to maintain a mixed fleet...which is as it should be IMO, if only for reasons of fun/gameplay.
Quote from: OJsDad on February 22, 2013, 10:36:58 PM
While DW doesn't have formations, and not a huge reason to have smaller ships at some point, it does allow the smaller classes to grow as the game goes on. So an escort class ship may be bigger than an early game destroy by the end of the game. This kind of mirrors the Honor Harrington books.
Heh, I've that exact same thought (how
Distant Worlds mirrors the HH books in that ship classes gradually become larger).
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 22, 2013, 11:28:23 PM
todays US Navy destroyers are Cold War crusiers that would have been WW2 battle crusiers by weight.
Damn, really? I had no idea.
battle crusiers might be an overstatement. but our destroyers are still crusier weight.
Martok, go to the aurora forum, "tutorial" sub forum and start with tutorial #1. That simple...1-13. Use the Aurora wiki to fill in the details once you get the basics. It's a great game if you have an imagination to go along with it
Thanks
mikeck. I'll check it out.
Quote from: mikeck on February 23, 2013, 05:37:30 PM
It's a great game if you have an imagination to go along with it
Indeed, that's part of why it appeals to me.
The best part is the challenge of designing something that works. In other games, you design ships by just adding components which always work. Add a laser? It will fire and hit. Want more missiles? Add a missle pack, etc
In aurora, you research and design everything. To fire a missile and hit a target you have to research and design an active sensor, a missile fire control system, the missile engine, the launcher and the missile itself (which includes picking a warhead, agility, fuel, and ECM). Then, when you install it on a ship, you have to link the fire control to the missile launcher. You could do all this and find out it doesn't work. You find out that while your active sensor can see 10 million kms, your fire control has a resolution too large to see the small ships your enemy uses until they are within 50,000 kms. Or hour enemy is using ECM and your 1million km rnge missiles are useless outside of 50k...It's a trip.
The concept of the game is very interesting, but I need at least some rudimentary form of graphics or throw at immersion from the game.
The 'visual basic' menus of the game just make me feel I am looking at a very advanced spreadsheet.
I have tried several times, but just can't get over that. :D
Still, a cool concept no less!
Aurora is great, but I never really feel like I know what I should be doing. I wish it were multiplayer so you could try out crazy designs with a friend. Course with the turn system there's no way it could work multiplayer.
However, as rudimentary as the game is, I should think it could work hosted on a webserver and run at a set speed, then allow players to log in and play when they could. Wish he'd do a kickstarter, I imagine he'd get the funds to do that, add some art, etc.
hes working on a new version of the game.
Maybe I will take another run at it soon. I got bogged down in a hurry but I am a game flirt.
I have so many I just move from one to another.
Quote from: mikeck on February 23, 2013, 08:11:12 PM
The best part is the challenge of designing something that works. In other games, you design ships by just adding components which always work. Add a laser? It will fire and hit. Want more missiles? Add a missle pack, etc
In aurora, you research and design everything. To fire a missile and hit a target you have to research and design an active sensor, a missile fire control system, the missile engine, the launcher and the missile itself (which includes picking a warhead, agility, fuel, and ECM). Then, when you install it on a ship, you have to link the fire control to the missile launcher. You could do all this and find out it doesn't work. You find out that while your active sensor can see 10 million kms, your fire control has a resolution too large to see the small ships your enemy uses until they are within 50,000 kms. Or hour enemy is using ECM and your 1million km rnge missiles are useless outside of 50k...It's a trip.
I think this is the one concept I still need to wrap my head around. It's not so much any single part, i.e. the missile fire control system you design will work. It's just whether or not it works for your situation or not. Is that correct.
Quote from: Yskonyn on February 24, 2013, 04:22:30 AM
The concept of the game is very interesting, but I need at least some rudimentary form of graphics or throw at immersion from the game.
The 'visual basic' menus of the game just make me feel I am looking at a very advanced spreadsheet.
I have tried several times, but just can't get over that. :D
Still, a cool concept no less!
All empire building games are speadsheets with some kind of graphics on top. Aurora is just more bland than most.
designing components isnt that hard after youve done it once or twice.
for anti ship missiles make sure the fire control has a resolution of 50
for point defence make the resolution 1
search systems should have a resolution of 500
resolution directly relates to range and size. I like to have a dedicated AWAC ship that sees everything and has massive sensors.
Quote from: OJsDad on February 24, 2013, 12:17:40 PM
Quote from: Yskonyn on February 24, 2013, 04:22:30 AM
The concept of the game is very interesting, but I need at least some rudimentary form of graphics or throw at immersion from the game.
The 'visual basic' menus of the game just make me feel I am looking at a very advanced spreadsheet.
I have tried several times, but just can't get over that. :D
Still, a cool concept no less!
All empire building games are speadsheets with some kind of graphics on top. Aurora is just more bland than most.
Well you could say every game is a spreadsheet in some form or another, but I do need a bit more on the visual Side of things to get comfortable.
Not much, though, I very much liked Dwarf Fortress, but Aurora in its current form is presented a bit too technical.
I agree, it has about the same amount of graphics as harpoon. I just watch the f3 system screen and go from there
Space Empires IV is on Steam right now for $2.49.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/1610/?snr=1_4_4__106_3 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/1610/?snr=1_4_4__106_3)
Quote from: republic on February 26, 2013, 12:33:59 PM
Space Empires IV is on Steam right now for $2.49.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/1610/?snr=1_4_4__106_3 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/1610/?snr=1_4_4__106_3)
Buy buy buy now now now!!!
Yes, that's a very good price for SEIV. You can also get both SEIV and SEV for $4.99!
Quote from: bbmike on February 26, 2013, 08:35:25 PM
Yes, that's a very good price for SEIV. You can also get both SEIV and SEV for $4.99!
It sounds though from everyone's comments here, plus taking a look at the Steam SEV forum, that SEV just isn't playable on any reasonably up to date pc.
I guess I have no choice but to pick up SEIV at this give-away price. Man, these constant sales are a sinister form of bleeding your wallet dry drop by drop...
Yeah I don't know where all the 'booha' about SEV being unplayable on Win7 64bit comes from.
It runs perfectly fine on my Win7 64bit OS in windowed or fullscreen mode.
You just have to make sure that you do several things as detailed here: Tips to get SEV running on Win7 (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4811.msg113325#msg113325) and here: More tips (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4859.0).
Pay special attention to setting up the correct resolution.
Quote from: republic on February 26, 2013, 12:33:59 PM
Space Empires IV is on Steam right now for $2.49.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/1610/?snr=1_4_4__106_3 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/1610/?snr=1_4_4__106_3)
Well shit. Even I can't resist at that price.
Martok do yourself a favour and go for the bundle for 1 buck extra. :)
Both run without any problems on Windows 8 for me. I could never get SEV to run on Windows 7.
I have spent Soooo many hours on SE IV. At that price it is an incredible steal. Get both, fix SE V when you feel like it.
I picked up the SE IV and V combo and am looking forward to playing. I also picked up Fallen Enchantress so have been quite distracted.
Quote from: Yskonyn on February 27, 2013, 05:22:02 AM
Yeah I don't know where all the 'booha' about SEV being unplayable on Win7 64bit comes from.
Er, the fact that it's unplayable on Win7-64? :P
QuoteIt runs perfectly fine on my Win7 64bit OS in windowed or fullscreen mode.
You just have to make sure that you do several things as detailed here: Tips to get SEV running on Win7 (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4811.msg113325#msg113325) and here: More tips (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4859.0).
Pay special attention to setting up the correct resolution.
I've tried all sorts of stuff over the last couple of years. Like all things PC, it just depends on your specific configuration. The tweaks work for some people, they don't work for others. Simple as that.
Still, that makes the game unplayable for some, but not everyone.
Many are shouting SEV just isn't playable on Win 7. That is only partially correct then and might give the wrong feedback to people on which system it does run, like mine.
This will limit the amound of players even more, because they probably won't even try. Which is a shame, especially because the game already has quite a small following.
Instead of placing a caution that it might not work, because it doesn't on their system, people just claim it doesn't run period.
So because of this thread, and the impending expansion, I've returned to Distant Worlds. I think I'd pay for the game and expansions all over again if they'd make it multiplayer.
Welcome back to the habit fold, republic. 8)
I always forget how much I like it :)
^ I know the feeling, trust me. ;)
Incidentally, I strongly suspect we'll have to wait for Distant Worlds 2 before we see multiplayer. From the few comments Elliot has made regarding the subject, I get the feeling it would be prohibitively difficult (and not worthwhile) to add MP to the existing game.
I'd donate to a Distant Worlds 2 Kickstarter. It would be nice if they'd use a 3d engine for smoother scrolling and better multicore support so epic battles wouldn't slow down even a fast system. The maps are huge, but I'd like to see even larger sizes with additional superpowers scattered about. Give us massively overpowered MOO2 style guardian systems for us to hurl our lategame selves into.
Maybe some sort of pocket dimension space ala Warlock/Minecraft. Once we've mastered the current universe we use those resources to start anew.
I kinda like not having the extra interface hassle of wrestling with a 3D camera, actually.
Am I the oddball in that?
I don't mean full 3D like Homeworld, just a better graphic engine. Something that can use a video card instead of relying on the CPU. Like what the AI War developer did. Distant World's is very cpu bound.
Doesn't AI Wars use sprites too? Or are they sprites in a 3D engine? Never noticed, but DW is indeed CPU heavy and not much GPU at all.
I would also like to see a somewhat more restrictive ship building system. SotS, for example, uses slots on their ships. Certain slots can only hold certain modules.
The whole 'just flick on modules and see if it fits size-wise' in DW doesn't really appeal to me. It makes ships come across as some random rubble of components where the same sprite may in fact have a very different component configuration.
In SotS you actually see your modules on the model in the battles.
But DW would need a (3D) graphics upgrade indeed for that.
Quote from: Yskonyn on March 03, 2013, 03:41:39 PM
Doesn't AI Wars use sprites too? Or are they sprites in a 3D engine? Never noticed, but DW is indeed CPU heavy and not much GPU at all.
AI War is all 2D. I could be wrong but aren't the ships/facilities in AI War all hand drawn pics?
I must be the only one who doesn't want them to go to a 3D engine. One of the best things about the game is how easy you can add new ship styles to the game. Google search some images, drop them into a folder, then load that theme when you start the game. No having to do a 3D model, rendering, or textures.
Quote from: republic on March 03, 2013, 01:03:17 PM
Maybe some sort of pocket dimension space ala Warlock/Minecraft. Once we've mastered the current universe we use those resources to start anew.
That would be a little to fantasy for me.
Quote from: Yskonyn on March 03, 2013, 03:41:39 PM
I would also like to see a somewhat more restrictive ship building system. SotS, for example, uses slots on their ships. Certain slots can only hold certain modules.
The whole 'just flick on modules and see if it fits size-wise' in DW doesn't really appeal to me. It makes ships come across as some random rubble of components where the same sprite may in fact have a very different component configuration.
If they did something like that I would like to see firing arcs added in.
Quote from: Yskonyn on March 03, 2013, 03:41:39 PM
I would also like to see a somewhat more restrictive ship building system. SotS, for example, uses slots on their ships. Certain slots can only hold certain modules.
The whole 'just flick on modules and see if it fits size-wise' in DW doesn't really appeal to me. It makes ships come across as some random rubble of components where the same sprite may in fact have a very different component configuration.
In SotS you actually see your modules on the model in the battles.
But DW would need a (3D) graphics upgrade indeed for that.
If we could get a ship-building and tactical combat engine closer to Starsector (http://fractalsoftworks.com/ (http://fractalsoftworks.com/)) or Gratuitous Space Battles I'd be fine with that. It doesn't have to be as sophisticated as SOTS (which I love) - the SOTS approach might not work as well with the larger DW universe, but I'd like something a big more sophisticated than the current approach, to be sure.
I also think Distant Worlds is a wonderful game. There is no need to go 3D. It works great and looks good 2D. My two recommendations for the game are a scalable UI so you can actually read the text and see the icons, and better optimization to take advantage of the processing power of at least dual cores.
I agree top down 2d is the best way to go. I was referring to an engine that uses a GPU to render the sprites rather than the CPU. AI War had an engine update a year or so ago that did that. Same old images, but drawn much faster with the GPU.
Keep the sprites (they look good and are so easy to mod) just let the GPU do the work instead of the CPU.
Quote from: Kushan on March 03, 2013, 06:59:18 PM
I must be the only one who doesn't want them to go to a 3D engine.
You're not alone. I often enjoy a well-done 2D game. 3D camera interfaces can just be a damn hassle, and the textures are often less appealing in low-budget indie games.
I would've liked to see ship customization, and maybe even battles, like that in
Gratuitious Space Battles. Ship building is pretty damn cool in that one, and the ship combat mechanics are sensible, if not perfectly balanced in a few cases. The campaign expansion for it was billed as a 4X expansion, but I don't think it's pretty damn shallow. The whole Rock-Paper-Scissors thing, so prevalent in strategy games these days, just tends to annoy me. Must be time for the leap into
Aurora. :-\
After watching a couple of LPs of DW Legends I am going to break down and purchase the game. From all appearances, this is one of those games that will fill me need far beyond my other 4x titles. The big draw here is all the customization, character interaction, races, etc.... The UI seems functional but not stellar. I believe I enjoyed watching the LPs as much as they were playing them..... like CK2, a novel evolved as the game played through.
In the end, I don't see anything that is currently developed or being developed that approaches the options and features DW does.
PE
you won't regret the purchase. it's a gem of a game. (and i've never even played the expansions, just the original, which is excellent in itself.)
Edit:
"In the end, I don't see anything that is currently developed or being developed that approaches the options and features DW does.
PE"
Arguably, Star Ruler is comparable in terms of depth and customizability.
I wonder, and no evidence to support it, if Shadows will, maybe one other expansion, will be the last and we will see DW2 then, with a lot of lessons learned.
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 04, 2013, 04:05:50 PM
Arguably, Star Ruler is comparable in terms of depth and customizability.
Hmmmmmm...not sure I can agree with this. Economy, trade, diplomacy, espionage, heroes, culture, special events, etc. All this stuff and more favors DW as the deeper, more complex game. On top of this, DW has soul. I found SR to be more or less a shell of game. I suppose the elements are there, but for some reason it just feels hollow, even after the long drawn out patching process.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 04, 2013, 07:02:34 PM
Hmmmmmm...not sure I can agree with this. Economy, trade, diplomacy, espionage, heroes, culture, special events, etc. All this stuff and more favors DW as the deeper, more complex game. On top of this, DW has soul. I found SR to be more or less a shell of game. I suppose the elements are there, but for some reason it just feels hollow, even after the long drawn out patching process.
Valid points all -- hard to argue against this, particularly since I've only played original DW and am sure the features you mention have only gotten deeper with the expansions. No question that the "living economy" of DW is unique, and SR can't touch it.
The perception that "SR lacks soul" point is clearly widespread, and I see where it's coming from. It seems to me that it wouldn't take too much to give it that soul -- the "Galactic Armory" mod does a lot to add flavor and interest and complexity (...it's already pretty complex in vanilla). May sound simplistic, but I think that the lack of good sfx really hurts SR. Even something like giving the ships engine sounds a la Sins of a Solar Empire would be a big boost for immersion. (I know there's no sound in space. But the sci fi convention of space sound effects is by now so well established, it seems perverse for the dev's to leave it out 'in the name of realism.')
I picked up Star Ruler for a good price over the holidays and spent quite a few hours with it and actually enjoy creating ships in this game and pitting them against the AI. At a certain point the AI starts spamming colony ships colonizing any and every rock in the galaxy including sub par planets in your own systems. I've become turned off of the game because of this.
Yeah, the ability in SR to colonize any planet type seems wrong to me. DW is definitely deeper in this respect -- although I do like that in both DW and SR the planets actually revolve around the star (...do they in SotS2? maybe very slowly -- it doesn't seem like they move).
Haven't gotten deep enough into 'Galactic Armory' to see if it improves on the vanilla SR in this respect.
The heart of SR is the amazing variety of ship design possibilities, no doubt.
Quote from: Martok on February 17, 2013, 08:00:10 AM
Spaceward Ho! IV
Sounds like a pretty racy game about making a 25th century porn film... ;) or is it just my smutty mind? 8) :P ;D
Quote from: Boggit on March 05, 2013, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: Martok on February 17, 2013, 08:00:10 AM
Spaceward Ho! IV
Sounds like a pretty racy game about making a 25th century porn film... ;) or is it just my smutty mind? 8) :P ;D
Now THAT sounds like a game I'd be interested in. We need more intergalactic pimping simulations!
Quote from: PanzersEast on March 04, 2013, 01:23:43 PM
After watching a couple of LPs of DW Legends I am going to break down and purchase the game. From all appearances, this is one of those games that will fill me need far beyond my other 4x titles.
Woot! Good to hear you're
joining our cult picking up the game,
PE. I think you'll be glad you did. :)
Quote from: PanzersEast on March 04, 2013, 01:23:43 PM
The big draw here is all the customization, character interaction, races, etc.... The UI seems functional but not stellar. I believe I enjoyed watching the LPs as much as they were playing them..... like CK2, a novel evolved as the game played through.
I second all of this (including the part about the UI being okay but not great). It was watching some LP's and reading a few AAR's that helped get me back into the game; it really does double as a storytelling device!
Quote from: PanzersEast on March 04, 2013, 01:23:43 PM
In the end, I don't see anything that is currently developed or being developed that approaches the options and features DW does.
PE
Indeed. With the obvious exception of
Aurora (and that game is mostly spreadsheet-based, with few of the sounds/visuals I feel are often essential to atmosphere/immersion), I don't think there's another space 4x title out there that's as deep or feature-rich as Distant Worlds. There's obviously still a lot more that could added/improved; but for now, at least, DW is where it's at if you desire options, complexity, and/or replayability.
Quote from: Boggit on March 05, 2013, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: Martok on February 17, 2013, 08:00:10 AM
Spaceward Ho! IV
Sounds like a pretty racy game about making a 25th century porn film... ;) or is it just my smutty mind? 8) :P ;D
Heh. :P
I do enjoy the game's "Western" theme: All colonized planets wear hats -- your own worlds wear a white cowboy hat (representing you being the "hero"), while other player's worlds wear a hat and a bandana over the planet's "face" (representing them being the "villains" who oppose you).
The minimal voice-overs get in on the act as well: Any time you send a ship/fleet to another planet, a man's voice says "yahh!" (as if telling a horse to "giddayup"); likewise, if you then decide to retract a movement order, the same guy says "whoa!" (as if telling the horse to stop). It's pretty funny; I still chuckle at it. :D