Strategic Command WWI The Great War or Commander - The Great War? Or Tiller's France '14, for something a bit more operational? All of this playing SAI and Jutland and reading Castles of Steel has me jonesing for some WWI land warfare, too.
Good question. I'm doing an omnibus review of WW I strategic games starting with Guns of August.
Quote from: Bismarck on February 21, 2013, 11:29:49 PM
Good question. I'm doing an omnibus review of WW I strategic games starting with Guns of August.
I looked at that one, too. I've seen a couple of mentions of it, but the look of it turns me off. How's the game play compare?
I thought Guns of August was good but Commander The Great War is more accessible for me.
Quote from: Gusington on February 22, 2013, 08:58:19 AM
I thought Guns of August was good but Commander The Great War is more accessible for me.
CTGW is definitely the easiest to get into of the lot.
I'm still very partial to WWI Gold but it's kinda sluggish. SC:WWI is a nice middle ground if you want to brave the DRM, high price, and limited download amount.
Just tried-out the demo to SC WWI. I like it. But it's not that easy to learn even after reading the manual. Some strange political set-ups at the start-Syria & Palestine start in 1914 as neutral minors so I guess if the Ottomans want to attack the Suez they have to invade them. There maybe some decision event that changes this but as there is no save feature with the demo, I can only get 1 or 2 turns in before I quit the game. The decision events are very nice, the naval warfare is kind of beyond my understanding and the whole game seems designed to throw you into a stalemate situation no matter what you do in 1914 anyway. The AI seems very good & there are many strategic considerations & possibilities. Graphics-fair, sounds-terrible.
Sound? What is the sound like?
Just generic feet-tromping, horse-tromping, and vehicle-driving sounds when you move a unit also some gunfire and explosions during combat. And some basic marshall music all of which can be turned off. It's not that bad but annoying after a while. Alot of units in the game which may make it too big for some but the campaigns have a nice variety and size, ie. corps, division, and brigade level.
You've piqued my interest. Now my wallet hates you.
Tell your wallet, the demo is FREE.
My wallet chimes in that nothing is really free. I told him to STFU.
Quote from: panzerde on February 21, 2013, 11:18:00 PM
Strategic Command WWI The Great War or Commander - The Great War? Or Tiller's France '14, for something a bit more operational? All of this playing SAI and Jutland and reading Castles of Steel has me jonesing for some WWI land warfare, too.
I had fun with France '14. I got all the mods. The heavy artillery is a lot of fun and there's a fair amount of cavalry action.
I tried a few things such as -- What if Von Kluck held the First Army back as ordered? If I remember correctly, this didn't even work as well as
doing what he did -- driving right on trying to envelope the BEF and the French 5th Army. The Germans pretty much have to pull back in either case when the French deploy a fresh army out of Paris.
Still, it was a massive and rather slow game. It did clarify a lot of what happened, though. For me anyway.
Quote from: Gusington on February 22, 2013, 11:53:13 AM
My wallet chimes in that nothing is really free. I told him to STFU.
Gus, your wallet and mine seem to have gone to the same school. I'm trying my best to ignore what mine says, depending on how the demo of SC:WWI plays. Right now that seems like the most appealing to me, though I do have a weakness for games using the Tiller engine these days.
Thanks all, for the great feedback and suggestions.
Actually, none of the games mentioned are bad although, as mentioned, GoA's interface is quirky.
I've been happy with SC:WWI & Breakthrough package. Despite the terrible download policies & DRM at Battlefront, I had some extra spending cash and did it last month.
From what I've seen thus far, the AI can put up a decent fight. It looks for your weakened units and does it's best to eliminate them and advance into the hole.
The game is easier to learn than WWI Gold was.
I thought the sounds were just fine - not overdone but a fair bit better than something from a Tiller game. I actually kinda like pixel art graphics, if done well, and the unit art is pretty good in this regard. It's the map graphics that look like shit - that, coupled with squares (vice hexes), kinda makes the map look poor despite the actual pixel terrain on it looking okay. The plains are just a flat single color but at least it's an earthy one and not some bright-ass neon mess.
My big hang-up in purchasing the thing was the limited download window, for one. I think I can manage okay with some various back-ups but there's always the odd chance that something will get lost, a house fire, media damage, etc could eventually take it's toll - so that makes me rather paranoid when it comes to companies' that strictly tell you they won't help you get the installer ever again after the first year or a specified amount of downloads. The other was my concern regarding the limited activation DRM, despite easing up on the amount allowed and how often they 'refresh'. I gave in when I found out I could have multiple installs at once, so I could have yet another turn-based strategy game on the notebook. These are some serious purchasing considerations, for any product, in my mind.
If you're worried about all those things, get a free 2GB Dropbox account.
Quote from: Bismarck on February 22, 2013, 08:30:19 PM
If you're worried about all those things, get a free 2GB Dropbox account.
Wouldn't that be distributing the licensed game to someone else? Penalty: Death!! :P
Quote from: Bismarck on February 21, 2013, 11:29:49 PM
Good question. I'm doing an omnibus review of WW I strategic games starting with Guns of August.
Cool. I'll definitely read it before I make any purchasing decision.
I've been learning toward
Commander: The Great War as it's apparently the most accessible out of all of them, but I've heard good stuff about most of the other ones as well (especially SC: WW1, but the others have their points too).
I'm definitely interested in Bismark's review as well. After downloading and playing demos last night and reading AARs, I bought the SC:WWI bundle this morning. It seemed to be best suited for my level of understanding of the era at this point. CTGW seems just a bit too abstract (though very tempting!) and WWI Gold seems just a bit too detailed.
I have discovered that SC:WWI looks much, much better on lower display resolutions. I tried the demo at 1920X1080 and almost couldn't stand to look at it.
Now, for some nice, quiet war. A nice break after fielding a stressed call from a client early this morning that "all of our servers are down!!!" (They weren't ::))
Well, hell. Amazon had WWI Gold for $14.99 with unlimited re-installs, so I got that too. This is what the wife gets for leaving me to my own devices.
Quote from: panzerde on February 23, 2013, 04:51:23 PM
Well, hell. Amazon had WWI Gold for $14.99 with unlimited re-installs, so I got that too. This is what the wife gets for leaving me to my own devices.
Hello guys!
WW1 Gold just got a new patch a few days ago. It has some significant performance improvements, as well as bug fixes and AI tweaking:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?28476-New-official-patch-1-08Q
Assuming that the Amazon DD isn't one patch before that, improvements are huge compared to it, so you shouldn't try before patching. :)
It is kind of sad that WW1 Gold doesn't always appear as alternative between SC and Commander. I have all 3, and actually they are all fun, and different takes on the conflict.
WW1G is clearly the hardest to grasp - there is a monster boardgame under the hood. IIRC, the boardgame -which I have and love- had 1 rulebook of basic rules, one for advanced, separate booklet for diplomacy, and separate sheets for each major countries with special rules and production tables. Despite frequent tooltips, you just can't shove that in the players face via mouse pop-ups. And the interface can be a bit rough on the newcomers, altough it becomes smooth with a little practice.
But the details it simulates cannot even compare to the other two. Rules on research, diplomacy, wartime production settings, politics, national will, warplans, interceptions, unit nationalities, events, colonies, navies etc., and they all come together to a whole.
For example, brief AAR of a game I just started as Central Powers with the new patch (using "strictly turn based" mode, which is the literal take of the boardgame activation and movement rules instead of the classic AGEOD move-style).
I was thinking of going with normal War Plans, but after unpausing the AI to let it choose first, I got not one, but two warnings (certain warplans are detected by the enemy pre-war so you get a warning): France chose Plan XIX (IIRC), which was still an attack in Alsace-Lorianne, but allowed more freedom in where to attack and with what armies, in exchange of somewhat lower National Will (NW is the cornerstone of the whole game. You win by destroying the enemies, which leads to mutiny, revolutions, different regime changes etc). More importantly, Russia decided on an anti-Berlin plan. Instead of having the bulk of her forces against Austria-Hungary, they were deployed on the German border.
So, I decided to shuffle around my plans too:
-Germany would go with the Moltke Plan, which is the Russia First strategy. 1st to 3rd armies would deploy on the Russian border, with the 4th to 6th to defend against France. Belgium would remain neutral, so later on I made some heavy diplomatic influences on GB, delaying their entry
-Germans would use their "Diplomatic Poker" option, which gives a good chance for Italy joining the war on their side at the beginning, due to them waiting around for treaty clauses to take effect. Side effects are plenty, including the removal of Russian combat penalties in August (which normally represent the haphazard throw of semi-mobilized Russians into combat), as all the loitering around gave the Russians time to finish mobilization before hostilities started.
I could make Italian entry pretty much guaranteed by combining this option with the Austria option of giving up on Trentin, but that is quite a blow to A-H's Nationa Will, so I decided not to
-Austria-Hungary was to go with the Anti-Serbia plan, hopeing to finish them off while Russia is busy with the big meetup with Germany.
I got lucky and Italy did join, which is not just a nice distraction for France, but also frees up the 7th and 8th Austrian armies.
It is now October, and maybe I was too cautios, but the Eastern Front didn't go anywhere. The German 1st Army has opened a gap at Eastern Prussia, plan is to shove the 8th Army through it into the Baltic States, while the 1st goes south toward Warsaw, which should end the deadlock (or imminnent Russian offensive, hard to tell) in Poland.
The French started the war with a vengeance. I just could not hold Metz and the fortified space north to it (Thionville?). Both spaces so very bloody major battles (major battles are when stacks are big enough to perform to parallel tactical battles), but the Germans had to retreat, this was back in August.
Since then, Germany suffered horrendous losses in my attempts at desperate counter-offensives to liberate the under-siege forts of Metz and Thionville. All these attempts have failed so far, Thion surrendered, but Metz holds out, even repelling a French assault attempt. Such heavy fighting is also taking a toll on France, especially since they failed to dislodge the German 6th and 7th armies from the mountainous terrain of the southern half of the front.
I finally managed to mass the Italian armies on the French border in September, capturing Nice. They might still prove a decisive factor.
Serbia is crumbling under pressure, as now 4 A-H armies pushing south. Not 5, because the 8th Army had to be sent from the Italian border to the Russian, as hitting a brick wall in Poland prompted the Russian AI to try its luck against A-H.
Great Britain is still neutral thanks to my diplomatic efforts, but not for long, and a result of my efforts, I am not really close to drawing anybody else in the war yet.
So you see, that kind of narrative and wide range of possibilities when you fire up a new game is missing from the other games, in my opinion.
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 22, 2013, 10:42:45 AM
Just tried-out the demo to SC WWI. I like it. But it's not that easy to learn even after reading the manual. Some strange political set-ups at the start-Syria & Palestine start in 1914 as neutral minors so I guess if the Ottomans want to attack the Suez they have to invade them.
Hi Sir Slash
What happens when the Ottomans enter the war is that Syria, Palestine, Mesopotamia and Arabia will all become activated, under Ottoman control and with Ottoman forces in them.
In terms of learning the game, I created a thread on the forum which contains a lot of useful information on playing the game.
It seems to have helped quite a few others, and I am happy to add any other things to it that aren't included in the Manual or Strategy Guides, please let me know:
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=107356
I am currently preparing something to add to the thread, to provide advice on using unrestricted naval warfare, and whether or not to send the Zimmermann Telegram.
We also have quite a few AAR on the go, and these should help anyone wanting to learn the game, or decide if it is for them or not.
The AARs cover the main
1914 Call to Arms campaign, the
Russian Civil War, von Lettow-Vorbeck's campaign in
German East Africa, and a couple of divisional level campaigns: the
German invasion of France in 1914, and the
1918 Ludendorff Offensive. You can find them all here:
http://www.battlefront.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=123
Bill
Quote from: Martok on February 23, 2013, 07:05:00 AM
I've been learning toward Commander: The Great War as it's apparently the most accessible out of all of them, but I've heard good stuff about most of the other ones as well (especially SC: WW1, but the others have their points too).
I have been enjoying CTGW...easy to learn, difficult to master and the AI is a credible opponent.
Quote from: Tamas on February 24, 2013, 08:13:28 AM
Quote from: panzerde on February 23, 2013, 04:51:23 PM
Well, hell. Amazon had WWI Gold for $14.99 with unlimited re-installs, so I got that too. This is what the wife gets for leaving me to my own devices.
Hello guys!
WW1 Gold just got a new patch a few days ago. It has some significant performance improvements, as well as bug fixes and AI tweaking:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?28476-New-official-patch-1-08Q
Assuming that the Amazon DD isn't one patch before that, improvements are huge compared to it, so you shouldn't try before patching. :)
It is kind of sad that WW1 Gold doesn't always appear as alternative between SC and Commander. I have all 3, and actually they are all fun, and different takes on the conflict.
[snip]
Welcome to Grogheads,
Tamas!
WW1 Gold is the other title I've kept half an eye on. However, you're right in that CTGW and SC: WW1 are better known, so I appreciate you talking about it.
Quote from: Shelldrake on February 24, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Martok on February 23, 2013, 07:05:00 AM
I've been learning toward Commander: The Great War as it's apparently the most accessible out of all of them, but I've heard good stuff about most of the other ones as well (especially SC: WW1, but the others have their points too).
I have been enjoying CTGW...easy to learn, difficult to master and the AI is a credible opponent.
Thanks
Shelldrake. That's been my impression as well, but it's good to hear you confirm it.
Quote from: Tamas on February 24, 2013, 08:13:28 AM
WW1 Gold just got a new patch a few days ago. It has some significant performance improvements, as well as bug fixes and AI tweaking:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?28476-New-official-patch-1-08Q
Assuming that the Amazon DD isn't one patch before that, improvements are huge compared to it, so you shouldn't try before patching. :)
Thanks for the head's up, patch downloaded.
Quote from: Bill101 on February 24, 2013, 09:06:34 AM
In terms of learning the game, I created a thread on the forum which contains a lot of useful information on playing the game.
It seems to have helped quite a few others, and I am happy to add any other things to it that aren't included in the Manual or Strategy Guides, please let me know:
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=107356
Thanks Bill, this was really useful. I'm really enjoying playing the game!
Thanks Bill. That really does help make sense of alot.
I have had WW I Gold for a long time but never has a tutorial so thoroughly pissed me off
in my 30 some years of PC gaming. What an abomination. I really wanted to like that game
and some day I will give it another go.
Quote from: Longdan on February 24, 2013, 08:31:40 PM
I have had WW I Gold for a long time but never has a tutorial so thoroughly pissed me off
in my 30 some years of PC gaming. What an abomination. I really wanted to like that game
and some day I will give it another go.
Exactly! I tried to get through it and couldn't so it was on to the next thing.
The old man shouting "Charge"in WW1 gold drives me nuts.
Anyway, of all WW1 strategic games, GoA is the one I have finished several times already. I started dabbling in WW1 gold and never finished even a year of it. It's quite tedious since you also play the battle phase and the game is sometimes unstable.
Great write up, Tamas
WWI Gold is still the hardest strategy game I've ever tried to learn. Part of what makes it so hard is that every country has specific conditions / limitations unique to itself, in effect a separate rule set for each country. And then, there's a *major* change in rules when you move from movement to trench warfare and then another change in 1917-18. It's a helluva lot to keep track of.
The clunky interface doesn't help matters. The tutorial is indeed frustrating, as is the 'learner' Tannenburg scenario, which I played many, many times and only pulled off what Ludendorff did IRL a couple of times (although I guess that's why it's such a famous battle -- the game shows you it was hard to pull off what L. did.)
All that said -- I think this is a game that requires a huge investment of time learning, but once you get the gist of it, it's pretty amazing. It's very deep, very challenging grand strategy that requires a lot of advance planning -- about as far from casual beer & pretzels as you can get.
It's by far my favorite AGEOD title. Tons and tons of atmosphere and character. And I especially love the fact that the battles are interactive, unlike other AGEOD games. The battle 'mini-game' is a lot of fun just in itself.
Also, I think nefaro did a sound mod that eliminates 'Charge!' And other annoying sounds. worth getting for anyone who wants to play.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 25, 2013, 08:45:30 AM
Great write up, Tamas
WWI Gold is still the hardest strategy game I've ever tried to learn. Part of what makes it so hard is that every country has specific conditions / limitations unique to itself, in effect a separate rule set for each country. And then, there's a *major* change in rules when you move from movement to trench warfare and then another change in 1917-18. It's a helluva lot to keep track of.
The clunky interface doesn't help matters. The tutorial is indeed frustrating, as is the 'learner' Tannenburg scenario, which I played many, many times and only pulled off what Ludendorff did IRL a couple of times (although I guess that's why it's such a famous battle -- the game shows you it was hard to pull off what L. did.)
All that said -- I think this is a game that requires a huge investment of time learning, but once you get the gist of it, it's pretty amazing. It's very deep, very challenging grand strategy that requires a lot of advance planning -- about as far from casual beer & pretzels as you can get.
It's by far my favorite AGEOD title. Tons and tons of atmosphere and character. And I especially love the fact that the battles are interactive, unlike other AGEOD games. The battle 'mini-game' is a lot of fun just in itself.
Also, I think nefaro did a sound mod that eliminates 'Charge!' And other annoying sounds. worth getting for anyone who wants to play.
I agree with everything Sandman said. Easily the most complex WWI game, but also the most rewarding. Found the easiest way to learn to play was to watch videos on YOUTUBE.
Posting so I can quickly find this later. Need to digest Tamas' take on WW1G when I have more free time today.
But I did like the old man yelling "Charge" as well as the train sound effects in the game.
Strategic Command WW1 & Breakthrough are wonderful games - except for Naval warfare. You can mod it pretty easily. There are a huge number of strategic options that play out over the course of the game. It also comes with an excellent WW2 simulation and a noteworthy simulation of the Russian Civil War.
The manual is excellent. There are play guides for most of the major campaigns. There are a lot of AARs out there (I did one for the Central Powers that ran on the Battlefront site & the wargamer site). AI is pretty good. The game comes with a very friendly PBEM - so you won't be dependent on some independent server that may, or may not exist in years to come.
I did not have the download issues since I bought the things on disk. My installation and verification ran without any real difficulty.
I've not played the other games - but I invested a lot of time learning this one. I highly recommend it.
I'm finding I can take maybe about an hour of WWI Gold before the "sometimes you can drag a unit there, other times you can't" interface has me gritting my teeth in frustration and I have to go play something else for the rest of the evening. Very atmospheric and seemingly very deep, but it's starting to feel to me like it isn't much more playable than Decisive Action. I really want to like this game and I can see the potential, but it feels like work. Also, while the manual is huge, I can tell it's a translation. I'm finding it heavy going.
SC:WWI is definitely easier to play and I'm generally having more fun with it. Agreed that naval warfare isn't the strongest part of the game, and I find the HQ to Corps relationship too abstract, but overall very playable and immersive.
I started a scenario of France 14 last night. Obviously a completely different scale of game, but I found it polished and engaging. It's different enough from both the Tiller Napoleonics and Panzer Campaigns to present some novel game play.
Quote from: jomni on February 25, 2013, 06:45:15 AM
The old man shouting "Charge"in WW1 gold drives me nuts.
I made a sound mod for WWI Gold that got rid of those bad voice-over ones, and a couple other annoying sound files too. It also shortens some of the background sounds when you click on a hex, that would be up to like 20 seconds long in vanilla, and the abusingly loud telephone ring that would fire if you clicked on a few specific ones in the Turkish area.
It's in the AGEOD mod section for it.
Quote from: panzerde on February 25, 2013, 09:46:49 PM
I started a scenario of France 14 last night. Obviously a completely different scale of game, but I found it polished and engaging. It's different enough from both the Tiller Napoleonics and Panzer Campaigns to present some novel game play.
Yep. France 14 is a gem. I've played a lot of games in the TillerUniverse and France 14 is one of the best.
As promised, I've updated our guide for new players with an in-depth look at US mobilization, the use of unrestricted naval warfare against the UK, and the infamous Zimmermann Telegram:
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?p=1424547#post1424547
Nothing to add, just registering so I'll know when the omnibus review from Bismarck is ready.
Quote from: Nefaro on February 25, 2013, 10:53:42 PM
I made a sound mod for WWI Gold that got rid of those bad voice-over ones, and a couple other annoying sound files too. It also shortens some of the background sounds when you click on a hex, that would be up to like 20 seconds long in vanilla, and the abusingly loud telephone ring that would fire if you clicked on a few specific ones in the Turkish area.
It's in the AGEOD mod section for it.
Thank you for this. I played about twenty minutes of the game after I bought it and immediately went looking for something like this. I hadn't realized until this discussion that it was your mod.
Quote from: MengJiao on February 26, 2013, 11:09:31 AM
Quote from: panzerde on February 25, 2013, 09:46:49 PM
I started a scenario of France 14 last night. Obviously a completely different scale of game, but I found it polished and engaging. It's different enough from both the Tiller Napoleonics and Panzer Campaigns to present some novel game play.
Yep. France 14 is a gem. I've played a lot of games in the TillerUniverse and France 14 is one of the best.
+1. The system is well suited to simulating WW1 at that scale.
Quote from: panzerde on February 26, 2013, 06:07:30 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on February 25, 2013, 10:53:42 PM
I made a sound mod for WWI Gold that got rid of those bad voice-over ones, and a couple other annoying sound files too. It also shortens some of the background sounds when you click on a hex, that would be up to like 20 seconds long in vanilla, and the abusingly loud telephone ring that would fire if you clicked on a few specific ones in the Turkish area.
It's in the AGEOD mod section for it.
Thank you for this. I played about twenty minutes of the game after I bought it and immediately went looking for something like this. I hadn't realized until this discussion that it was your mod.
Thanks.
I'm not sure if it will work as well in the latest update, but I also used JMass' map mod. He had lightened all the map files, so they weren't so dark, and changed the file types to something other than the massive Bitmaps they were before. Made it much easier to see (vanilla map was pretty dark) and may have increased the load speeds a bit. I don't know if these adjustments were made official lately, but the patch notes say the performance was improved so something must've been changed with the map graphic situation.
Quote from: Nefaro on February 28, 2013, 05:15:37 AM
I'm not sure if it will work as well in the latest update, but I also used JMass' map mod. He had lightened all the map files, so they weren't so dark, and changed the file types to something other than the massive Bitmaps they were before. Made it much easier to see (vanilla map was pretty dark) and may have increased the load speeds a bit. I don't know if these adjustments were made official lately, but the patch notes say the performance was improved so something must've been changed with the map graphic situation.
I've looked at that and may give it a try. With the latest patch the game is running really well on my system so far, though I've yet to try the Grand Campaign.
Land combat "clicked" for me the other night, and I was able to win both Tannenberg and the Serbian scenarios . I starting to see why people who like this game like it so much - there's a surprising amount of depth here and the mechanics, while complicated, allow you to play out WWI at a level no other strategic games do. It's growing on me, to be sure.
Not strategic scale but John Tillers Squad Battles First World War is also a gem. Rarely do you get to play out WW1 at squad level. You get to see the evolution of infantry tactics from mass formations to smaller squads and fire teams. It's a nice history lesson.
Quote from: Nefaro on February 25, 2013, 10:53:42 PM
Quote from: jomni on February 25, 2013, 06:45:15 AM
The old man shouting "Charge"in WW1 gold drives me nuts.
I made a sound mod for WWI Gold that got rid of those bad voice-over ones, and a couple other annoying sound files too. It also shortens some of the background sounds when you click on a hex, that would be up to like 20 seconds long in vanilla, and the abusingly loud telephone ring that would fire if you clicked on a few specific ones in the Turkish area.
It's in the AGEOD mod section for it.
I've got the game, but haven't installed it. I'll look for your mod when I fire WW1G up. Thanks verymuch. :)
I've just finished an excellent book," Home Before The Leaves Fall", a new history of the 1914 French campaign centering around the German right wing armies. The could've, would've and should've's of who did what and why. Lots of good stuff in there. I can't recommend it enough if your at all interested in that time period.
^Thanks for the recommendation Sir Slash. Sounds similar to Barbara Tuchman's Guns of August.
Unlike Tuchman, Ian Senior only does the Western Front and gets tactical. HBtLF would be a good source to make a Tiller WW I scenario.
Agreed. I thought WWI was a boring war but this book has given me a different opinion. I really felt bad for the poor grunts on both sides that were sent straight into battle after an all day forced march, and then the generals often gave-away their gains by ordering a retreat after nightfall. A great study in differing command styles too, Joffre vs Molkte.
I can recommend Hew Strachan's "The First World War" for a good strategic level understanding. Quite readable too, it was the basis for the TV Documentary Series http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jabberjawjapan/The_First_World_War_(TV_series)
Here is a link to the first in the series on youtube - you can get the other links there. If you like it I recommend you get the DVD for your collection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfehNhgytHg
Quote from: Sir Slash on March 01, 2013, 10:19:18 AM
I've just finished an excellent book," Home Before The Leaves Fall", a new history of the 1914 French campaign centering around the German right wing armies. The could've, would've and should've's of who did what and why. Lots of good stuff in there. I can't recommend it enough if your at all interested in that time period.
Thanks much for the recommendation. Added to my wish list, I'll pick it up after I finish
Castles of Steel.
Quote from: Sir Slash on March 01, 2013, 10:19:18 AM
I've just finished an excellent book," Home Before The Leaves Fall", a new history of the 1914 French campaign centering around the German right wing armies. The could've, would've and should've's of who did what and why. Lots of good stuff in there. I can't recommend it enough if your at all interested in that time period.
You've raised my interest in this too, as it sounds better than just another account of the 1914 campaign.
WWI boring? I can't even look at you.
And now I have to send you the receipt for Home Before the Leaves Fall too.
Damn your eyes Slash. Damn them!
You won't be damning either of my eyes when you get the book. Or if you'd rather drive down here to Fla. you can have my copy. You don't have to look at me if you don't want to.
WWI boring. Dude...DUDE!
I mark up the "boring" tag to the Anglo-American fixation on the Western Front trenches. Movies, plays etc find that narrow topic easy because of low-budget sets. People wring their hands over the Somme but few mention the division that used novel tactics and made their objective with acceptable casualties.
HA cheap sets...I never thought of it that way.
It was all the silly-looking helmets I couldn't get past--and the trenches. I'd read about the French '14 campaign and the Battle of the Marne before but never really the how's and why's of how it all came about. This early period of manuver warfare is now a must read for me.
Boggit,
That doc is one of my favorites. Shared it with my parents, too; Mom was especially impressed with it. I knew a little more about WW1 than Mom or Dad, but we all learned a ton from that documentary.
It has its shortfalls--almost nothing about tanks, airpower or subs--but its concentration is on the strategic and political aspects. I have another doc called World War I that I haven't watched yet, which (from the episode description) goes into a lot more detail about the nuts and bolts of the war. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't have rich color film footage from French army correspondents! (That and the color photos kind of blew our minds, too. My eventual collection of several dozen silent films can be traced at least in part to my appreciation for this doc.)
Quote from: Bismarck on March 02, 2013, 05:47:25 PM
I mark up the "boring" tag to the Anglo-American fixation on the Western Front trenches. Movies, plays etc find that narrow topic easy because of low-budget sets. People wring their hands over the Somme but few mention the division that used novel tactics and made their objective with acceptable casualties.
For me, at least, I confess this was indeed the case.
It wasn't til I started hanging around you yahoos that I began to have a greater and deeper understanding/appreciation of what went on outside of battles like Verdun and the Somme. (In fact, it's only because of you guys that I started to get interested in WW1 games like CTGW.)
^Shameful display!
Well they always say the first step is admitting you have a problem.
True.
Quote from: Martok on March 03, 2013, 02:15:28 PM
Quote from: Bismarck on March 02, 2013, 05:47:25 PM
I mark up the "boring" tag to the Anglo-American fixation on the Western Front trenches. Movies, plays etc find that narrow topic easy because of low-budget sets. People wring their hands over the Somme but few mention the division that used novel tactics and made their objective with acceptable casualties.
For me, at least, I confess this was indeed the case.
It wasn't til I started hanging around you yahoos that I began to have a greater and deeper understanding/appreciation of what went on outside of battles like Verdun and the Somme. (In fact, it's only because of you guys that I started to get interested in WW1 games like CTGW.)
I find it most satisfying that we we're able to help.
I'm just as glad to have been enlightened. :)
Quote from: Sir Slash on March 02, 2013, 11:33:36 PM
It was all infiltration oking helmets I couldn't get past--and the trenches. I'd read about the French '14 campaign and the Battle of the Marne before but never really the how's and why's of how it all came about. This early period of manuver warfare is now a must read for me.
Dont underestimate the trenches. It actually led to the evolution of squad tacticss and infiltration. You won't see that in a strategic scale.
Very true but try telling that to an audience in the 20s and 30s.
Quote from: Bismarck on March 03, 2013, 08:24:36 PM
Very true but try telling that to an audience in the 20s and 30s.
Insufficient "pew-pew" for the younger set, I suspect.
All of this has reminded me about a lot I'd forgotten about WWI, and prompted me to learn more about the strategic and political aspects of the war. On the tactical front, it's fascinating to try and grapple with what are essentially Napoleonic armies at the start equipped with technologies nearly a century beyond that thinking. It's what you could see starting to happen during the American Civil War, writ large.
^Good post, and that in a nutshell explains my interest in it.
What I meant was the fervent, anti-militaristic mind set. I like Sasooon's an Owen's poetry but will not set policy by them. Some people did.
great thread! just wanted to say thank you!!
chem!