Was all set to pull the trigger for Shogun and then saw Fall of the Samurai - an entirely separate game - where would you guys suggest starting. Vanilla Shogun II and working on up?
Do you mean buying or playing? You have to have Shogun 2 in order to play FOTS so buy them both if they're cheap. Also there's Rise of the Samurai set in medieval times too. Playing- probably start with vanilla Shogun. The add-ons will be more familiar to you then. It's longer than FOTS and so a little less hectic. Beware the dreaded "Realm Divide" where everybody will turn on you at once so I'd start-out on the easy level(no shame). There's also some great mods that improve the game alot.
Yeah that realm divide is a killer!
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 28, 2013, 12:15:45 PM
Do you mean buying or playing? You have to have Shogun 2 in order to play FOTS so buy them both if they're cheap. Also there's Rise of the Samurai set in medieval times too. Playing- probably start with vanilla Shogun. The add-ons will be more familiar to you then. It's longer than FOTS and so a little less hectic. Beware the dreaded "Realm Divide" where everybody will turn on you at once so I'd start-out on the easy level(no shame). There's also some great mods that improve the game alot.
Purchasing. Thanks for your advice - is it playable from the get-go, i know Empire needed the troops to be slowed down a little
FWIW Steam say FOTS is entirely stand alone and the original game is not required:-
"Notice: DOES NOT require the base game Total War: SHOGUN 2 in order to play."
With vanilla Shogun 2, Shimazu or Date are good starting clans. Since they are at the edge of the map, fewer AI enemy clans in close proximity. One takes you down the Christianity/gunpowder tech tree, the other relies on traditional units. Once you have the combat/trade/diplomacy/honor system figured out, then try a clan near the center for added challenge.
I'd recommend downloading a battlefield speed mod as the default troop speeds are still a little fast IMO.
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 28, 2013, 01:30:29 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 28, 2013, 12:15:45 PM
Do you mean buying or playing? You have to have Shogun 2 in order to play FOTS so buy them both if they're cheap. Also there's Rise of the Samurai set in medieval times too. Playing- probably start with vanilla Shogun. The add-ons will be more familiar to you then. It's longer than FOTS and so a little less hectic. Beware the dreaded "Realm Divide" where everybody will turn on you at once so I'd start-out on the easy level(no shame). There's also some great mods that improve the game alot.
Purchasing. Thanks for your advice - is it playable from the get-go, i know Empire needed the troops to be slowed down a little
FWIW Steam say FOTS is entirely stand alone and the original game is not required:-
"Notice: DOES NOT require the base game Total War: SHOGUN 2 in order to play."
You are correct:
Fall Of The Samurai is a Standalone. Think of it as the NTW to their ETW, at least in regards to CA's release habits.
Rise Of The Samurai requires the original S2TW - it's DLC. FYI. CYA. HFY.
I did not know FOTS was stand-alone. Sorry for the mis-info. I personally liked FOTS better because of the newer units and more modern setting. It's a shorter campaign and you have to be very aggressive to win. But the Realm Divide is much more on your side than Shogun. In Shogun, I always found the clans close to the Trading Ports to have an advantage. I play with the Darth mod which greatly increases the AI capabilities and makes the battles much tougher. But I like the look of the Radious mods many new units for all 3 campaigns.
thanks guys - im thinking a play thru of the vanilla campaign with a slow down mod and then ill check out the big mods
You might also want to look into one of the realm divide mods. I like the one that still gives you the big initial hit but doesn't keep hammering your relations until everyone hates you and declares war. With the mod, if you have a strong enough alliance when the realm divide hits, your allies will possibly stick with you. Makes more sense to me.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on February 28, 2013, 02:33:01 PM
I'd recommend downloading a battlefield speed mod as the default troop speeds are still a little fast IMO.
It never occurred to me to look for one of these. This is probably the single biggest reason I haven't sunk much time into Shogun2. Everything moves just too damn fast! Trying to keep tabs on everything moving so quickly, I wind up panicking even before my troops do. This could be just the thing I need.
Shameful Display!!
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on February 28, 2013, 04:33:23 PM
You might also want to look into one of the realm divide mods. I like the one that still gives you the big initial hit but doesn't keep hammering your relations until everyone hates you and declares war. With the mod, if you have a strong enough alliance when the realm divide hits, your allies will possibly stick with you. Makes more sense to me.
Same here. One that's a bit easier on the continual drop after the event.
I know they slowed down the unit movement in one of the S2TW updates, but they may still be olympic sprinters in full gear. That is something that always bothered me about ETW & NTW too. So a movement decreasing mod was always a nice way to keep the battles from being too click-festy.
I've not played it in awhile, but some of the battle voice-overs would fire wayyy too damn much. As in you'd hear some dude yelling the same phrase over & over - often overlapping instances of it. There was an old Proper Japanese Language mod that fixed that, shortly after the game came out, but it may not be compatible anymore. :-\ Shamefur Dispray! Shamefur Dispray!
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on February 28, 2013, 04:33:23 PM
You might also want to look into one of the realm divide mods. I like the one that still gives you the big initial hit but doesn't keep hammering your relations until everyone hates you and declares war. With the mod, if you have a strong enough alliance when the realm divide hits, your allies will possibly stick with you. Makes more sense to me.
do you have linkys?
You should able to find almost anything you need mod wise over at Total War Center...www.twcenter.net.
Quote from: Gusington on February 28, 2013, 06:32:24 PM
You should able to find almost anything you need mod wise over at Total War Center...www.twcenter.net.
That place can be looking for a needle in a haystack at times, though. :(
Realm Divide mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?436082-Realm-Divide-Mod-v2-0-%28UPDATED-FOR-FotS%29 (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?436082-Realm-Divide-Mod-v2-0-%28UPDATED-FOR-FotS%29)
Speed mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?429413-Movement-Speed-Reduction-NEW-v2-0&highlight=speed+reduction+mod (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?429413-Movement-Speed-Reduction-NEW-v2-0&highlight=speed+reduction+mod)
Thanks SDR!
You're a good man sdr
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on February 28, 2013, 07:16:12 PM
Realm Divide mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?436082-Realm-Divide-Mod-v2-0-%28UPDATED-FOR-FotS%29 (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?436082-Realm-Divide-Mod-v2-0-%28UPDATED-FOR-FotS%29)
Speed mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?429413-Movement-Speed-Reduction-NEW-v2-0&highlight=speed+reduction+mod (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?429413-Movement-Speed-Reduction-NEW-v2-0&highlight=speed+reduction+mod)
Thanks
SDR! Bookmarking for when the Gold Edition comes out.
i see its on GG and Steam - im a lover of both sites, does the Steam version stop mods or have they sorted all that out?
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 01, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
i see its on GG and Steam - im a lover of both sites, does the Steam version stop mods or have they sorted all that out?
You're probably okay as long as the game isn't patched. I don't think they're updating S2TW anymore (?) but I have no idea about FotS (I don't own it).
Considering some settings in the Steam client are just plain broken, and the "Do Not Update This Game" option had been notorious for not working properly in the past, you could possibly end up having to delete mods and do a file check to repair it if an update gets through. One good thing about the newer Total War titles is that it has some built-in modding support so these smaller basic mods are unpacked over the vanilla files every time you start the game, and many of the mods packed in the highest priority format package so you don't usually have to edit any text files to tell it to do so. To revert back to vanilla, in these cases (IIRC they're called "Movie Packs") all you have to do is delete these Pack files if you want to revert to vanilla or remove them.
So CA has made it easier for the smaller mods. It's the big ones that change quite a bit which still need their own Mod Enabling software.
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 01, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
i see its on GG and Steam - im a lover of both sites, does the Steam version stop mods or have they sorted all that out?
The game requires Steam. If you buy from GG, you just get a game code that you activate through Steam.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on March 01, 2013, 05:17:33 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 01, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
i see its on GG and Steam - im a lover of both sites, does the Steam version stop mods or have they sorted all that out?
The game requires Steam. If you buy from GG, you just get a game code that you activate through Steam.
all i needed to know thanks SDR
And yes the option on Steam for 'do not update this game' is very broken so beware. My game did break (DLC did not show up) SEGA support was useless and I had to rely on SDR for tech support. If that's not a tragedy I don't know what is.
It's how we lost grandma....
I know! Tragic!
Quote from: Gusington on March 02, 2013, 12:21:31 PM
And yes the option on Steam for 'do not update this game' is very broken so beware. My game did break (DLC did not show up) SEGA support was useless and I had to rely on SDR for tech support. If that's not a tragedy I don't know what is.
Out of curiosity.. how did you force Steam to reinstall your broken DLC?
Sometimes I wonder if some of my DLC stuff is even working, on a couple Steam games I have. ???
See, this is how bad things have gotten.
I'm reading this thread and I'm thinking, "I know I own Shogun 2, and I'm pretty sure I bought FotS. But I don't remember hearing about Rise of the Samurai, which is much more what I'm looking for in a game. I'm way more into the whole medieval setting than the modern setting."
Thinking thusly, I go onto my Steam library and then search for the Rise DLC, only to find that I already own it.
I have so many unplayed games in my library that I'm forgetting which ones I even own anymore. That's pretty damn sad.
^Or awesome if you're you :)
I too am feeling the draw of Rise of the Samurai as have it and have not tried it yet. I am on the verge of being destroyed in my current Fall of the Samurai campaign...fighting for the Shogun is almost impossible. I am turtling in my one remaining province, building up what is left of my army, surrounding my fortress with special agents sharpening my blades. If they're going to take me, it's going to hurt them.
Nefaro I had to go into the files on my computer and manually swap some out. If you look in Tech Talk you will see the thread with the issue and the solution in detail.
The Rise of the Samurai campaign is much tougher than the Fall of the Samurai, Gus. Prepare for a thrashing.
Oh good. Looks like my current thrashing will have prepared me well. In general I am better at games with melee combat and have more difficulty with ranged.
The difficulty comes more on the strategic map than in the tactical battles. I guess it depends on your playing style. I tend to turtle in my fortifications and keep my units somewhat dispersed between provinces and then use interior roads to concentrate a large force and strike. That's much more difficult in ROTS as most provinces don't start with a castle. On the tactical map, your defence is on a hilltop with a few buildings with some fences but no walls so there's no real advantage to the defenders.
The roads between each province start as unimproved dirt tracks so armies move very slowly. There is also a lot more forest cover so ambushes are more frequent. Add in small economies so you never have enough money and the return of the dreaded Realm Divide and it's a whole new ball game.
The strategic map, at least for me playing for the Shogun in Fall of the Samurai, is key for me losing this campaign as well. From the very beginning the Emperor had an advantage in numbers and I was surrounded by enemies. I think I only had 10 turns or so when I was not in a constant state of war. I hold my own defensively but never could mount an effective offense against 4-5 enemy clans at a time. Then I got angry and started looting the few provinces I could take for a cool 20k-30k, but that would lower my rep and everyone who hated me despised me even more. There was no winning.
So now I am down to one heavily defended province. The last few turns will be like a Japanese steampunk version of the movie Downfall. Just need Bruno Ganz to lose his mind and I'll be set :/
SDR's right about ROTS. Armies move so slowly that if you let an enemy get past you, you're screwed. Moving by ship is faster, but if you don't have naval superiority, you're screwed. The very limited type of ships means naval battles are all about numbers and if you don't start early enough you have to play catch-up which can get very expensive and with a limited economy can suck-up all your funds. Better keep some old save games just in case.