Right
This isn't an AAR - I just wanted to play through a little scenario to reinforce the rules I've read. So feel free to correct me on anything I'm doing wrong or leave any general play comments and/or hints.
As I've only read half the manual at the moment, the rules I've got are all to do with infantry and weapon teams so I'm limiting the scenario to a few units on each side and no armour or arty.
There is no turn limit. Destroy the enemy is the task for both sides.
Where I show dice in a pic, red die are German rolls and white die are US rolls.
I've choosen map 16.
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Squads
Axis
Squad 1
1xLeader Cpt Weiss
2xFallschimjager 2/3/4
1x MG42 Support Weapon
Squad 2
1xLeader Lt Praun
2xFallschimjager 2/3/4
1xMG34 Support Weapon
Support Squad
1x7.92 Weapon Team
Americans
Squad 1
1xLeader Cpt McCauley
3xGlider Infantry 2/5/4
1xBAR Support Weapon
Squad 2
1xLeader Lt Clarkson
3xGlider Infantry 2/5/4
1xBAR Support Weapon
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Cpt Weiss has the DEAD EYE Leader skill card and Cpt McCauley has the Ambush Leader skill card
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As this is just a random game, I roll a 10 sided die to determine where the squads enter the map. German and American will start at opposite ends of the map and on the edge
This is the startup positions.
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TURN 1
Rally Phase
Roll for initiative sees the Germans roll 1 and the US roll 5...US has the initiative.
There is no rallying required at the moment.
Operations Phase
Impulse 1 - US
The US has the initiative and therefore has the first attempts at activation, movement and fire on each impulse this turn.
There are no spotting opportunities here. Both US squads are activated this impulse for movement.
Lt Clarkson moves his squad down the road at a cost of 1 per hex...normally allowing a movement of 4 hexes. But because he is in Good Order, the squads moving can double time and move 2 extra hexes (N4,M4,L4,K4,J5,I4) for a cost of 6MP's.
Cpt McCauley moves through the hedgerow and into the wheatfield for 1 hex of movement and a cost of 3MP's (N7). (2MPs to move into the wheatfield +1 to cross the hedgerow). Because he is in Good Order, the squads under his command can move a further 2MP's of movement - allowing another hex in the wheatfield to be navigated. They finish in hex M7)
(I'm not sure I've got the movement thing right regarding the wheatfield and hedge - feel free to correct me)
Impulse 1 - Axis
They cannot engage - so both squads are on the move. The Weapon Team is going to stay put for the moment. It has considerable range but I can't see anywhere on the map where it would be better placed.
Cpt Weiss moves his squad through the hedges and into a clear hex for a cost of 2MP's and then into a clear hex for 1MP and a total of 3MP's. He is in Good Order - so he and his squads can double time another 2MP's - allowing movement into the Light Forest in D4 and his final MP remaining allows movement into the clear hex in E4.
Lt Praun moves through 4 clear hexes for a total cost of 4MP's (B8,C8,D8,E8) and sits waiting at the hedgerow to the south. Again - as he is in Good Order, he can move a further 2MP's and moves through the hedgerow into a clear hex for a cost of 2MP's. He finishes in hex F8 and is heading for the safety of the building in hex H8!
Both sides have no units left (the Axis are not moving the Weapon Team) and so the impulse phase is over
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Administration Phase
All MOVED markers are cleared.
Question - Do I have the movement calculations right? I haven't come across anything this "detailed" before. I'm especially referring to when I was moving into the wheatfield hex through the hedge...I am correct in paying 3MP's for that?
I've just noticed my first error - not distinguishing between Hedgerows and Bocage! Bothe the Axis and US units moved through Bocage - NOT Hedgerows!
In that case am I correct in thinking it would've cost 5 MP's to move units across the Bocage into a clear hex and 6 MP's to move across the Bocage into wheatfield?
Great thread JD as I am still new to the game myself I look forward to seeing you play through like this to help get a grasp on the rules.
TURN 1
Rally Phase
Roll for initiative sees the Germans roll 1 and the US roll 5...US has the initiative. (loaded dice?)
There is no rallying required at the moment.
Operations Phase
Impulse 1 - US
There are no spotting opportunities here. Both US squads are activated this impulse for movement.
I wouldn't do this normally - but I'm going to now to try something and get your views on my interpretation of the rules.
I'm going to Assault Move Lt Clarkson and his squads and Double Time (+2MP's) into the LoS of Cpt Weiss. In Assault Move they can move for 1/2 their modified MP's - giving 3MP's. So I move them to I3, H3 at a cost of 2MP's.
They now come into LoS of Cpt Weiss and because they are in Clear terrain, they are automatically spotted...right?
I'm hoping my interpretation of the rules is correct in that because Lt Clarkson is Assault Moving, he can Op Fire on the Axis hex which is performing Op Fire...correct?
Anyway - that's how I'm playing it out.
The Axis squads in E4 Op Fire on Lt Clarkson and his mob. As the US are moving, there is a +1 modifier to the Op Fire die roll.
So the Axis units will fire with an FP of +6FP (+2*2 for the squads) and +2 for the SW MG42. They will also get +1 for the Leader and +1 for the moving US unit. There is no degrading terrain between the Axis and the US units. A roll of 6 resulting in 12. The defender die roll is 3. As the Axis die roll is greater than the defenders die roll, the attack is successful. I then have to roll a 1d6 to determine the attack value, adding the difference between the attack die roll and defender die roll (which was 9 (12-3)). I roll a 1 giving a difference of 10. I then check the Direct Fire Table (DFT) for each unit. For each Good Order MMC in the US hex, the 10 is greater than their morale but less than 2* their morale - and therefore they are shaken. As there is a Good Order leader in the US hex, I can use his leadership value to reduce the DFT value - alas it's not enough (only reducing it to 9) and as the morale value of each of the squads is 6 the attack and hit stands. Each US squad in the hex is reduced to SHAKEN. (NOTE I cannot use the Leadership value to help the leader) - and therefore 10 is still greater than 7 and he suffers a hit...
The Axis unit is now marked as FIRED
(This is very complex to me!)
Now - as the US units were Assault Moving - it means they can return fire (Op Fire) before the hits affect their units. So the US unit opens up on the Axis units. They are in range and in open terrain - AND the fact they fired means they are spotted.
The US troops fire - and roll a 6. With an FP of 7 (+2*3 for the squads and +1 for the BAR) and a +1 from their Good Order leader, that's a +8 which = 14FP total. A defender roll of 4 gives a difference of 10. That is less than 2*the morale value of the units but greater than 1* the morale value - and therefore each of the Axis units takes a hit
It's unclear to me whether the Leader can influence attack and defence values during Op Fire - even so it wouldn't make a difference here - but there may be an occasion when it does!
Anyway - each of the Axis units are also shaken.
WoW - is that how this plays out? If so - that's going to take getting used to. If not - I can only think it's more complicated!
Comments and help than welcome!
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I think I need to read the rules again!
The Axis would Op fire first, as you did(as long as they aren't already under a moved, fired, or ops complete marker). Any assault movers they shook or damaged would not get to turn around and fire back, as they were shook/wounded before they could. The shaken/wounded assault movers would have to stop in that hex and their activation would be over. I believe an Ops complete
Also the shooting unit/stack rolls once, and adds modifiers, then the defender does the same. If the attackers total is greater, the defending units must EACH take a damage check against their morale of one die plus the difference. You roll for any leaders first. If they pass, their leadership can be used as a bonus to each other units damage check (as long as the leader hasn't already used his leadership for something else that turn)
^^Yep, after the defending stack comes up short in the 'roll off' with the attacking stack, each unit in that stack individually rolls a damage check as Uber said.
And yes, that initial move made by the McCauley stack was through bocage. So basically their entire move would have been through it to the wheatfield.
Ok - so I should have rolled a damage check against EACH US unit
Yeah - obviously I spotted the bocage. Am I correct in the cost though? So I am going to spend 2 MPs to move into the Wheatfield and there's a +4MP to move through the Bocage so a total MP cost of 6?
What about what Uber said about return Op Fire and the US should take the damage before they can return fire? I thought no damage was taken until both sides damage was resolved? Particularly as they were Assault Moving?
I'm sure if they were just moving then the units hit would stop. All other units could continue moving or stop. If they stopped could they go under an Ops Complete marker and Op Fire on a different impulse?
This is all very complicated to me...but I'm sure will become clear. The whole point of this little exercise is was to make sure I was getting things right and show things I wasn't understanding.
This particular move (Lt CLarkson and his units) was to try this Op Fire and make sure I understood it. I particularly made him Assault Move so I could show I was going to return fire and make sure I was doing that correct.
Thanks for your input
Off the top of my head, the 6 cost for that move sounds right. Take a look at a terrain sheet to double check the numbers, though.
Yes, Uber is correct. The German unit gets the first chance to fire since they're op firing. Think about it this way :
The American unit moved aggressively forward with the intent to fire on anyone they encountered
BUT, before they could do so, they were fired upon by Germans coming up the road.
Then you'd resolve Attacker vs. Defender as you did, then do damage for each US unit in that stack. If any of them are still able to fire after that, they would do so next. Otherwise, that unit's turn is done.
There's no simultaneous fire in LnL.
If you want to give the Americans a chance to fire you can try to give the Germans a dilemma. Try splitting the assault movers stack into two groups. On the American impulse, assault move 1 or more units towards the Germans. If they fire at you, they've taken their shot for the turn. If they don't, go ahead and fire at them at the end of your impulse, after you're done moving. You can also go ahead and fire if the Germans take a shot and fail to shake/wound. In a later impulse, assuming the Germans already took their shot, the remaining units can assault move as well.
Also remember, assault movers have to take their shot at the end of their move. If they don't, they can still op fire later, but this would have to be triggered by enemy movement. They can't just fire at something because it happens to be sitting there.
I was mistaken. Assault movers do not have to take their shot immediately after they stop moving. They can go ahead and shoot at any point you choose (as one of your impulses). Just don't forget the penalty to your die roll for them being under an assault move marker.
AB has very helpfully (because he's just like that) provided a few links to video tutorials.
Reading the manual has done all it could do with several re-reads. I've read a playthrough - and that's helped also. I've downloaded and taken on board as much as I could "cheat sheets"
I now have to watch these videos and see if that seals the deal for me.
Sorry JD, not sure how I missed this until now. I have some comments on your play.
Firstly:
QuoteOperations Phase
Impulse 1 - US
The US has the initiative and therefore has the first attempts at activation, movement and fire on each impulse this turn.
There are no spotting opportunities here. Both US squads are activated this impulse for movement.
Lt Clarkson moves his squad down the road at a cost of 1 per hex...normally allowing a movement of 4 hexes. But because he is in Good Order, the squads moving can double time and move 2 extra hexes (N4,M4,L4,K4,J5,I4) for a cost of 6MP's.
Cpt McCauley moves through the hedgerow and into the wheatfield for 1 hex of movement and a cost of 3MP's (N7). (2MPs to move into the wheatfield +1 to cross the hedgerow). Because he is in Good Order, the squads under his command can move a further 2MP's of movement - allowing another hex in the wheatfield to be navigated. They finish in hex M7)
(I'm not sure I've got the movement thing right regarding the wheatfield and hedge - feel free to correct me)
The impulse system is played like this:
The US has the initiative so they get the FIRST IMPULSE. This means they can ACTIVATE the units in ONE hex only. Now the units in the activated hex can move or shoot or spot.
If you have only 1 squad in the activated hex you can do one of those things.
If you have 2 squads in that hex you could move one or both and shoot with one or both and spot with one or both. But if you shoot with both they must shoot at the same target when shooting in the same impulse. If you move with both they must move together to teh same end point if moving in the same impulse.
If you have 3 squads in the hex then thes same as above only in combinations of the 3 squads.
Once the US is finished with the actions of the ACTIVATED hex, it is then the German's turn to ACTIVATE a hex and do his impulse.
Instead of taking any actions in an impulse a side can PASS. It they goes back to the other side fir his next impulse.
The impulses go back and forth like this until all units have activated and the turn ends.
OR if there are 3 passes in a row - ie. If side 1 passes, then side 2 passes and side 1 passes again the turn ends.
So the play goes back an forth bewteen the two sides during a turn, not side 1 does all his stuff then side 2 goes.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 08, 2013, 03:20:08 PM
I've just noticed my first error - not distinguishing between Hedgerows and Bocage! Bothe the Axis and US units moved through Bocage - NOT Hedgerows!
In that case am I correct in thinking it would've cost 5 MP's to move units across the Bocage into a clear hex and 6 MP's to move across the Bocage into wheatfield?
Yes this is correct.
Brilliant - thanks Barthheart. I just noticed the other day when re-reading the rules that you can activate ONE hex in an impulse - the exception being if the hex being activated contains a good order leader in which case he can activate units in adjacent hexes also
On movement - I get the "if you are moving ALL unit's in a hex in the same impulse they must move together" and "if they fire they must fire together and at the same target (exception Weapon Teams?)".
QUESTION - what if the stack in the hex has differing movement values? Are the ones with more MPs allowed to move that extra hex or two? Or is the move performed based on the unit with the lowest MP's?
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 08, 2013, 04:35:20 PM
TURN 1
Rally Phase
Roll for initiative sees the Germans roll 1 and the US roll 5...US has the initiative. (loaded dice?)
There is no rallying required at the moment.
Operations Phase
Impulse 1 - US
There are no spotting opportunities here. Both US squads are activated this impulse for movement.
I wouldn't do this normally - but I'm going to now to try something and get your views on my interpretation of the rules.
I'm going to Assault Move Lt Clarkson and his squads and Double Time (+2MP's) into the LoS of Cpt Weiss. In Assault Move they can move for 1/2 their modified MP's - giving 3MP's. So I move them to I3, H3 at a cost of 2MP's.
They now come into LoS of Cpt Weiss and because they are in Clear terrain, they are automatically spotted...right?
Yes this is correct.
Quote
I'm hoping my interpretation of the rules is correct in that because Lt Clarkson is Assault Moving, he can Op Fire on the Axis hex which is performing Op Fire...correct?
No, the enemy always gets the choice to OP fire first. If he choose not to fire then yes the Assault Moving (AM) troops could fire. Also just firing dos not draw Op Fire.
Quote
Anyway - that's how I'm playing it out.
The Axis squads in E4 Op Fire on Lt Clarkson and his mob. As the US are moving, there is a +1 modifier to the Op Fire die roll.
So the Axis units will fire with an FP of +6FP (+2*2 for the squads) and +2 for the SW MG42. They will also get +1 for the Leader and +1 for the moving US unit. There is no degrading terrain between the Axis and the US units.
Almost. You get the "first" squads full FP and each additional squad adds 1/2 their FP rounded up. You get to choose whoe is the "first" squad. SO you would have:
2FP (1st squad) + 1 FP (2nd squad) +2 FP for MG +1 Leadership +1 moving leg target = +7
You roll a 6 so your attack is 6+7 = 13.
Quote
A roll of 6 resulting in 12. The defender die roll is 3. As the Axis die roll is greater than the defenders die roll, the attack is successful. I then have to roll a 1d6 to determine the attack value, adding the difference between the attack die roll and defender die roll (which was 9 (12-3)). I roll a 1 giving a difference of 10. I then check the Direct Fire Table (DFT) for each unit. For each Good Order MMC in the US hex, the 10 is greater than their morale but less than 2* their morale - and therefore they are shaken. As there is a Good Order leader in the US hex, I can use his leadership value to reduce the DFT value - alas it's not enough (only reducing it to 9) and as the morale value of each of the squads is 6 the attack and hit stands. Each US squad in the hex is reduced to SHAKEN. (NOTE I cannot use the Leadership value to help the leader) - and therefore 10 is still greater than 7 and he suffers a hit...
Almost. You would roll on the DFT for each unit separately starting with the leader. His leadership can not help him. Since 9 is greater than 7 he his shaken. Since he is shaken he can't reduce the DFT result so each squad would face the full 9 result, shaking each of them.
Quote
The Axis unit is now marked as FIRED
(This is very complex to me!)
Now - as the US units were Assault Moving - it means they can return fire (Op Fire) before the hits affect their units. So the US unit opens up on the Axis units. They are in range and in open terrain - AND the fact they fired means they are spotted.
The US troops fire - and roll a 6. With an FP of 7 (+2*3 for the squads and +1 for the BAR) and a +1 from their Good Order leader, that's a +8 which = 14FP total. A defender roll of 4 gives a difference of 10. That is less than 2*the morale value of the units but greater than 1* the morale value - and therefore each of the Axis units takes a hit
It's unclear to me whether the Leader can influence attack and defence values during Op Fire - even so it wouldn't make a difference here - but there may be an occasion when it does!
Anyway - each of the Axis units are also shaken.
WoW - is that how this plays out? If so - that's going to take getting used to. If not - I can only think it's more complicated!
Comments and help than welcome!
[/quote}
Combat is not simultanious in BoH. Since all the US troops are shaken they are finished for this turn. They can not fire when shaken.
It would now be the German's impulse to activate a hex.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 15, 2013, 08:04:09 AM
Brilliant - thanks Barthheart. I just noticed the other day when re-reading the rules that you can activate ONE hex in an impulse - the exception being if the hex being activated contains a good order leader in which case he can activate units in adjacent hexes also
On movement - I get the "if you are moving ALL unit's in a hex in the same impulse they must move together" and "if they fire they must fire together and at the same target (exception Weapon Teams?)".
Correct except weapon teams.
Quote
QUESTION - what if the stack in the hex has differing movement values? Are the ones with more MPs allowed to move that extra hex or two? Or is the move performed based on the unit with the lowest MP's?
No the faster units could only move as fast as the slowest unit.... if moving together in the same impulse. You could choose to move the faster, or slower, unit later in a separate impulse.
^ yep - so a unit with a MP of 4 stacked with a unit with MP2 can leave the MP2 unit behind this impulse and use it's 4 MP's to move or move WITH the MP2 unit and move only 2 MP's
Ta
I am getting there - but there are alot more rules to this game than I have seen in others that I thought were complicated enough.
I also just noticed that you move the MG42 in it's assembled mode. If you flip the counter you'll see it have a disassembled mode, it not clear I agree. The US MG also has an disassembled flip side. These represent large MG that can't move when fully assembled. The MG42 has the advantage that it can still fire at reduced FP when disassembled while the US .30 cal could not.
Also you probably picked the worst board to start on. ;) Hedgerows are very complicated terrain.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 15, 2013, 08:16:38 AM
^ yep - so a unit with a MP of 4 stacked with a unit with MP2 can leave the MP2 unit behind this impulse and use it's 4 MP's to move or move WITH the MP2 unit and move only 2 MP's
Ta
I am getting there - but there are alot more rules to this game than I have seen in others that I thought were complicated enough.
Yes.
What other games are you comparing this with? Just curious to see where you are coming from. To me, this game is fairly simple where as ASL is complex. But I also play lots of games that have 30+ page rulebooks...
I found that this game will suddenly "click" and you almost never have to read the rulebook again. In fact I almost never use the DFT as there are so few results that it gets easy to remember them.
Well - from OLD -
TSR - Red Storm Rising
TSR - Hunt for Red October
DVG - Leader games
Academy Games - Conflict of Heroes
That's about it. Nothing too complicated in there.
I have also recently bought LnL Blood and Bridges which I was keen to get into - but I got side tracked with a small scale squad sized tactical game (LnL BoH)
I'm starting to treat my boardgames like my computer games - buy them with every intention of playing them to death and getting sidetracked. Thankfully they aren't as plentiful as computer games...
OK. I still have my copy of Red Storm Rising. Fun game.
I would rank BoH only slightly above CoH in overall complexity. BUt the rule book does throw a lot of people off.
Playing and watching other people play makes things gel much quicker.
I too seem to gather more board games again. Took about a 20 yeear break from board gaming when computers came out - C64 was my first gaming rig.
Keep at BoH, it will "click". And ask away. I'll try to answer more timely. 8)
Thanks Barthheart - it is definitely clicking. I just need to keep checking rules and watching a few vids here and there.
Already today a video Arctic Blast linked to helped with a couple of points I was unsure of.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 15, 2013, 11:11:58 AM
Thanks Barthheart - it is definitely clicking. I just need to keep checking rules and watching a few vids here and there.
Already today a video Arctic Blast linked to helped with a couple of points I was unsure of.
Cool! That second video is me teaching Charles to play. 8)
Quote from: Barthheart on March 15, 2013, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 15, 2013, 11:11:58 AM
Thanks Barthheart - it is definitely clicking. I just need to keep checking rules and watching a few vids here and there.
Already today a video Arctic Blast linked to helped with a couple of points I was unsure of.
Cool! That second video is me teaching Charles to play. 8)
LOL. You know, I kind of wondered briefly when I saw the text about thanking Vance for the help. "No, it must be a completely different guy..." ;D