I was just idly browsing the internets and came across this -- I guess I didn't know it wasn't only endusers who were unhappy about Windows 8. But the sentence in bold really caught my attention:
"Several key developers in the gaming community have made it perfectly clear that they're either not seeing a reason to upgrade to Windows 8 anytime soon, or that they see the new OS as a huge catastrophe waiting to be unleashed. There's also fear that Microsoft is creating a walled garden, that it hopes to push all software exclusively through its Windows Store, shutting out platforms like Steam and Origin.
"If Microsoft decides to lock down Windows 8, it would be very, very bad for indie games and competition in general," said Minecraft creator and founder of Mojang, Markus "Notch" Persson."
Some choice quotes:
"The latest backlash against Windows 8 essentially started with Valve's CEO who called the OS a "catastrophe." Blizzard's Rob Pardo seemingly backed up the assessment, saying the new OS wasn't good for Blizzard either. id Software's John Carmack sees no benefit of upgrading to Windows 8, and Stardock's Wardell used words like "schizophrenic," "obnoxious," and "nightmare" when describing the OS earlier this year."
(And this from the usually even-keeled and understated Brad Wardell!!)
As someone who has really come to love Steam, this struck me as a tad ominous. Thoughts? Reason to worry, or tempest in a teapot?
(btw, this is not exactly news, an article form Aug. '12: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-8-Gaming-developers-Stardock-Newell,16788.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-8-Gaming-developers-Stardock-Newell,16788.html) Still, I found it interesting.)
I don't see it happening... I think the "monopoly police" would put a stop to it before it got going. At least I hope they would...
All I know is I had to buy a new rig last weekend and had no choice but to go with 8. Once I got used to it, I didn't hate it as much as I thought I would. One of the first things I did was purchase StarDrive off of Steam, and had no issues doing so.
I haven't found a single one of my games that doesn't run perfectly fine on Win8. I think this whole thing of MS creating a walled garden got started when they announced they were not going to allow M rated games on the MS App Store, and since then has been blown way out of proportion. I just don't see MS cutting their own throat my locking down any version of Windows and prevent any 3rd party software from being installed. They may continue to block games/software on the the MS app store, but who uses that anyway?
I just look at MS's past behavior. You cannot trust them to act in your interest unless they have a reason.
That's all. I hope for the best.
Yes - but Windows 8 is not the issue. Its what is going to heppen with windows 9. Windows 8 is just windows 7 with a bolt on. Likely windows 9 will be a beast all its own. I can quite easily see them going this route, just cause it seems stupid to us - doesnt mean they see it that way.
Quote from: Kushan on March 13, 2013, 02:30:17 PM
They may continue to block games/software on the the MS app store, but who uses that anyway?
And thats entirely the problem.
I don't want to give the impression that I think some conspiracy is afoot here. When you stop to think of it, it seems pretty logical that MS would, in an ideal world, want to muscle out Steam and co. to grab that territory for their own. The question is, from their standpoint, is it worth alienating customers to do so? This is a longstanding concern of MS's I'm sure -- they'd love to eliminate the Firefoxes (and Googles) of the world and see everyone happily using Explorer and Bing. They've gotten in trouble in the past for trying (litigation, anti-trust etc.) --
I think they must look at Apple's business model with envy -- it's interesting that Win 8 has a decidedly "OS X" feel to it. They must look at iTunes and think, 'god, wouldn't it be great to corner your customer base into having to use our distribution for, you know, everything.' That Steam must be in MS's gunsights isn't too surprising -- although I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Steam is headed for extinction or anything like that.
Time to move to Ubuntu ... ? :)
DYI Steamboxes. There's one on my middle distance To-Do List.
^interesting -- I wasn't aware of the Steambox idea. Looks like the PC / console convergence is moving right along...
Quote from: Kushan on March 13, 2013, 02:30:17 PM
I haven't found a single one of my games that doesn't run perfectly fine on Win8. I think this whole thing of MS creating a walled garden got started when they announced they were not going to allow M rated games on the MS App Store, and since then has been blown way out of proportion. I just don't see MS cutting their own throat my locking down any version of Windows and prevent any 3rd party software from being installed. They may continue to block games/software on the the MS app store, but who uses that anyway?
I am wondering if the gamers who stated they are having no problems with Win 8 are playing only games that have been published recently an not the older games. I also think that wargamers dont have a proper perspective on their value to Microsoft and the computor industry. Wargaming software is only a very very small part of the computor industry. The vast majority of people use their computors for business, web surfing, e-mailing ,photos, and watching vidios on line.
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 13, 2013, 08:42:01 PM
I think they must look at Apple's business model with envy -- it's interesting that Win 8 has a decidedly "OS X" feel to it. They must look at iTunes and think, 'god, wouldn't it be great to corner your customer base into having to use our distribution for, you know, everything.' That Steam must be in MS's gunsights isn't too surprising -- although I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Steam is headed for extinction or anything like that.
Time to move to Ubuntu ... ? :)
Indeed.
But MS has also enjoyed far more widespread use due to being a much more open system than Apple's iron-fisted tendencies. There's more than one reason Apple's OS/computers aren't used by a majority, but a large part of it is that MS systems have been so much more open.
If MS believes they want to take on Apple at it's own over-priced locked-down proprietary tendencies, then it will only hurt them as they'd be forsaking one of their strengths.
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 13, 2013, 08:42:01 PM
Time to move to Ubuntu ... ? :)
Linux, yes. Ubuntu, no. ;)
Quote from: renobe on March 14, 2013, 12:48:51 PM
Quote from: Kushan on March 13, 2013, 02:30:17 PM
I haven't found a single one of my games that doesn't run perfectly fine on Win8. I think this whole thing of MS creating a walled garden got started when they announced they were not going to allow M rated games on the MS App Store, and since then has been blown way out of proportion. I just don't see MS cutting their own throat my locking down any version of Windows and prevent any 3rd party software from being installed. They may continue to block games/software on the the MS app store, but who uses that anyway?
I am wondering if the gamers who stated they are having no problems with Win 8 are playing only games that have been published recently an not the older games. I also think that wargamers dont have a proper perspective on their value to Microsoft and the computor industry. Wargaming software is only a very very small part of the computor industry. The vast majority of people use their computors for business, web surfing, e-mailing ,photos, and watching vidios on line.
dont forget porn :)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on March 14, 2013, 05:44:38 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 13, 2013, 08:42:01 PM
Time to move to Ubuntu ... ? :)
Linux, yes. Ubuntu, no. ;)
Why not Ubuntu? It seems much easier on the Linux n00bs than other 'distros'. Is there another that we neophytes should be checking out, assuming we are not eager to type 'sudo' more than once a week?
Heh, well, it's personal preference really. I used Ubuntu for years myself, but I found myself getting more and more put off by their philosophy and practices. Canonical are fast becoming the Apple of the Linux world. I'll go into detail if you like, but for now I'll just say that I don't agree with Canonical on pretty much anything any more. Oh, and the Unity interface is absolutely horrid.
As for distros I'd recommend to newcomers...probably Mint (http://www.linuxmint.com/), Mageia (https://www.mageia.org/en/) or OpenSUSE (http://www.opensuse.org/en/). Personally I use SolusOS (http://solusos.com/) because I like it and it's Debian-based.
Edit: Linux has come a long way. Unless you're using a particularly geeky distro like Arch or Gentoo, you don't need to use the console for anything any more. It's easier to use the console if you know what you're doing, and bash (the shell that 99% of Linux consoles use) is incredibly powerful. But there ought to be graphical tools for every one of a typical user's needs in most distros these days.
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll check those others out.
Actually, knowing so little about Linux, I would be interested in knowing more about what Canonical is up to that is at odds with where you feel Ubuntu should have been headed. Or, if you can, point me to a source that shares your viewpoint.
Thanks Huw -- you've piqued my curiosity as well. I havent thought too seriously about Linux (I always just assumed I didn't have the technical know-how to get by with it), but these different options are very intriguing.
Linux versions are called distributions and shortened to distros. Most of them have a "live CD" that allows you to trial the system on your PC without installing it. IF your bios allow for booting from a USB you can make a stick with the bootable file on it or you will have to burn a CD or DVD depending on the size of the file.
Users tend to be very opinionated on what is the best and what is the worst, just like browsers and cars and other things.
You're welcome chaps! I'm happy to answer as many questions as you'd care to throw at me. I'm no expert but I've been using it as my main OS for about 6/7 years now.
Staggerwing, there have been various things Canonical have done throughout the years. I'll give you two examples:
The first thing to piss me off was when they literally copied Apple and started doing things like moving the window buttons to the left, despite absolutely nobody asking for it and annoying vast swathes of the userbase. Then there was the first thing that absolutely enraged me, the Banshee controversy (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/shuttleworth-on-the-ubuntu-banshee-controversy-mistakes-were-made/8366). In a nutshell, Canonical altered Ubuntu's version of the Banshee music player. See, normally purchases made within it from certain Linux-friendly webstores would generate revenue for the Banshee team to fund ongoing development. Canonical instead altered the package so that revenue went to them. I think that was the point at which I ditched Ubuntu.
I don't like Mark Shuttleworth any more, I don't like the Canonical leadership, I don't like the way they fostered the ghastly Unity interface on everyone. The latest genius idea they've had is to send your dash search results to Amazon! (http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/09/ubuntu-bakes-amazon-search-results-into-os-to-raise-cash/) You couldn't make it up. A major distribution of Linux - one of the last bastions of freedom in the tech world - thinks it's fine to send your desktop search results (not web, but desktop!) to a third party in the hope of generating more cash! No thanks.
So anyway. As good as Ubuntu used to be, it's now (in my opinion) completely unrecognisable as the distro "for Human beings", the distro that used to mail free copies to anyone who asked for it, the distro whose leader was once absolutely passionate about freedom of choice and free software. Screw 'em.
By the way, with regard to the previous question about distros, if I had to pick one of them that would be absolutely fool-proof for a beginner, it'd be Mint. It already comes with great software pre-installed as well as all the popular codecs so that watching videos etc doesn't require the slightest effort. At least, that's how it was the last time I tried it.
One of the many great things about Linux is that virtually all distros can be booted directly from optical media or even USB, so you don't have to touch your hard drive in order to test them out. Just boot from the disc and have a play! 8)
Thanks for all the info, Huw. I'll have to try Mint on one of my older rigs and see if Steam for Linux functions acceptably. I also want to be able to use my DYI Steambox for watching Hulu (the computer-only licensed content, that is).
At the moment Steam is only officially supported by Ubuntu (apparently Valve still think Ubuntu is the most-used distro). If you're going to install it on any other distro you might have to look up a tutorial first. Of course, Desura (http://www.desura.com) is perfectly distro-agnostic. ;)
I plan to try installing Steam on SolusOS at some point. I'll let you know how it goes.
I'm a fan of Desura as well. They have a few free games and demos if you want to try it out without buying anything.
I couldn't vote to greenlight a game on Steam without buying something first. Not impressed with Steam.
Most everyone I hear from sing the praises of Ubuntu Linux, too. Is Huw the odd man out?
It's actually pretty user friendly right now. I see his point about the direction it is taking though. His concern is that it is following the Chrome model with it's built in data mining. The bit about stealing redirecting the click-through revenue generated by the music app sounds a bit ominous as well.
Some people love the Unity popout menu and some people hate it. Some haters stick with it for a while and change their minds. I didn't mind using it but you will have to use the keyboard or spend too much time with the mouse.
There was an outcry over the amazon issue and then there was an update with an opt out choice.
Ubuntu is the easiest for new users to install and add new software IMO. Very Mac/Windows like.
Quote from: Nefaro on March 16, 2013, 01:03:16 PM
Most everyone I hear from sing the praises of Ubuntu Linux, too. Is Huw the odd man out?
People left Ubuntu in droves when the Amazon thing happened. It's still very popular, I can't deny that, but that its userbase significantly dwindled lately is absolutely beyond doubt. In fact, Ubuntu is no longer top of the Distro Watch (http://distrowatch.com/) chart which it so confidently straddled for a long time.
Interesting article on windows 8.
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Windows8ProductivityWhoMovedMyCheeseOhThereItIs.aspx
Quote from: renobe on March 14, 2013, 12:48:51 PM
Quote from: Kushan on March 13, 2013, 02:30:17 PM
I haven't found a single one of my games that doesn't run perfectly fine on Win8. I think this whole thing of MS creating a walled garden got started when they announced they were not going to allow M rated games on the MS App Store, and since then has been blown way out of proportion. I just don't see MS cutting their own throat my locking down any version of Windows and prevent any 3rd party software from being installed. They may continue to block games/software on the the MS app store, but who uses that anyway?
I am wondering if the gamers who stated they are having no problems with Win 8 are playing only games that have been published recently an not the older games. I also think that wargamers dont have a proper perspective on their value to Microsoft and the computor industry. Wargaming software is only a very very small part of the computor industry. The vast majority of people use their computors for business, web surfing, e-mailing ,photos, and watching vidios on line.
I have Win8 running on a laptop that I bought about three months ago. Not all my games run on it...and quite a few need some fiddling to get them to work. To be fair, the laptop uses AMD Vision for graphics, so that may the problem for some games...but for any given game, I can't tell if the problem is Win8 or AMD Vision. I bought a desktop two months ago, and went back to Win7 for the desktop because of all the trouble I have had with 8. Win7 is such a relief.