All of a sudden everyone (especially at wargamer) seems to be playing Dominions 3...what's the big deal? What I mean is, is there something about this game that makes it different? Did a new mod or something come out? Wiki says its 2006 so why is everyone playing all of a sudden?
I'm looking to pick up and learn a new game and I love complexity so I'm curious if this is it. I know it's fantasy based but how deep is it?
It is an incredibly deep fantasy empire building game with a gigantic number of factions, ability to summon creatures and cast spells, and create (pre-made) artifacts. The downsides are the low-tech graphics and the brain-dead AI. But even with the brain-dead AI you can have a lot of fun and then go on to MP.
One of the strengths of Dom 3 are the insane number of creatures, army units, Gods, summoned spirits, undead, and underwater denizens that you can put in your army. They all have various different stats and special skills or abilities that differentiate one another. Even though you don't control battles directly, setting up the order of the army and their general actions, while thinking about unit composition and combined powers is hugely fun. So, like real battles, many are won in the planning stage before the actual battle (although any plan can go awry).
For example, let's say you have a huge group of naked barbarians that are fast, strong, do a lot of damage with an ax, but have no armor whatsoever. You are facing an enemy with strong archers and slow, armored swordsmen - so your barbarians will get shredded by arrows and not have the armor to go toe-to-toe with the swordsmen. Your God/wizard has air magic, so you set him to cast a ward to block arrows - one problem down. You might then hire a druid you found in a nearby special forest grove special site you found a few turns before and put him in your army to cast Stoneskin or Barkskin - which give immunities to hits and raise armor. Now you have fast barbarians who can close the distance without getting skewered, then bash the swordsmen with their superior attack while surviving the swordsmen's blades.
The game is full of this sort of thing - Giant ice giants that will melt if they fight in the desert (so they need some protection from heat); weak-but-able-to-fly birdmen that can cross the battlefield instantly but are as durable as paper; mind-stealing giant fish that can't go on land without the proper spell or item. Dealing with the strengths and limitations of your faction makes the game really. And every faction as three sub-factions broken by eras, so it takes you forever to play all of them!
+ 100
and its always been £60 with a further 20-30 to import it to the UK - now its on Desura for £18.99 for digital download
edit:- are you really really new? as in too new to join the MP game?
Quote from: mikeck on March 16, 2013, 12:07:24 PM
All of a sudden everyone (especially at wargamer) seems to be playing Dominions 3...what's the big deal? What I mean is, is there something about this game that makes it different? Did a new mod or something come out? Wiki says its 2006 so why is everyone playing all of a sudden?
I'm looking to pick up and learn a new game and I love complexity so I'm curious if this is it. I know it's fantasy based but how deep is it?
Ilwinter (the devs) finally expanded distribution to other retailers, and lowered the price a good deal. While I probably would've picked it up long ago, at the 50-60 dollar Shrapnel Games price if I had known it was so jam-packed with awesome-ry, it's now a much more palatable $30 at Gamersgate and Desura.
I hadn't really been exposed to Ilwinter's fantasy strategy designs until I grabbed Conquest of Elysium 3 not too long ago, for ten bucks. Even though COE3 has a quite simple system (unlike Dominions 3), it's very easy to fall in love with the huge plethora of mythical units & backgrounds of the many nations. It made me run (not walk) to purchase Dom3 and it has been an immensely deep learning experience. There are soooo many units & strategies in Dom 3 due to the massive amount of "stuff" in it.
These are the kinds of quantities of "stuff" we often want to see in games that have potential, but a large majority of them just don't deliver enough:
QuoteThere are more than 60 different nations, 1500 different units, 600 spells and 300 magic items in the game.
And these aren't just possible random combinations created in a generator. Those numbers may not look like much compared to the promo numbers that some ARPGs put out, regarding their random item generators, but these are each hand-crafted and not just some random mix of a handful of values. Each of the units are based on literature and mythological creatures from history, and the 50 or so playable nations each have their own historical & mythological counterpart(s). Not only was there a huge amount of time put into all the game content, there are many different strategies (and counter-strategies) available in the game.
The AI will give you a challenge while you're learning the game, but it reportedly gets too predictable/exploitable after you know what you're doing. Cool thing is.. this game takes awhile to dig into the nooks & crannies to figure it all out (which is probably what I enjoy doing most - exploring the system & trying things out). I've been playing Dom3 for a couple months now (?) and I still don't have it all down, nor have I played even 1/4 of the nations available (and they're all unique with their own units & strengths). The 'new car smell' lasts quite awhile on this thing! 8)
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 16, 2013, 12:32:21 PM
edit:- are you really really new? as in too new to join the MP game?
Are you guys having trouble filling the "long game"?
I've never been very interested in fantasy tbs to be honest but might try one out. Should I try dominion 3 first or something like Fallen Enchantress?
Quote from: mikeck on March 16, 2013, 12:52:26 PM
I've never been very interested in fantasy tbs to be honest but might try one out. Should I try dominion 3 first or something like Fallen Enchantress?
Dominions 3 has really low production values. The graphics are really bad, but the gameplay makes up for it. Depending on your need for visual polish, it may or may not be the best starter game.
It depends on your skill. Dom3 is incredibly deep and I personally would not recommend it for newcomers to the genre. However if you're an old hand you'll have no problems. Fallen Enchantress would be a good starting point for someone with little experience, or Age of Wonder: Shadow Magic.
Quote from: Nefaro on March 16, 2013, 12:52:13 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 16, 2013, 12:32:21 PM
edit:- are you really really new? as in too new to join the MP game?
Are you guys having trouble filling the "long game"?
lol no, were on 10, its enough - i just wouldnt want miceck to buy it now for instance and then in 3 days time say 'this is AWESOME where do i find MP?'
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 16, 2013, 01:28:10 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 16, 2013, 12:52:13 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 16, 2013, 12:32:21 PM
edit:- are you really really new? as in too new to join the MP game?
Are you guys having trouble filling the "long game"?
lol no, were on 10, its enough - i just wouldnt want miceck to buy it now for instance and then in 3 days time say 'this is AWESOME where do i find MP?'
Ahhh. Well.. if you guys need more warm bodies in the 2-day game, I offered. Otherwise, I'll wait for a later one to start.
2 day is still open if you want in - Yskonyn is away for a few days - it doesnt kick off til his return
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 16, 2013, 01:32:28 PM
2 day is still open if you want in - Yskonyn is away for a few days - it doesnt kick off til his return
Cool. I'll query you in the thread then. ;D
Yay, another victim! Nice one, Nef!
Quote from: Huw the Poo on March 16, 2013, 12:57:02 PM
It depends on your skill. Dom3 is incredibly deep and I personally would not recommend it for newcomers to the genre. However if you're an old hand you'll have no problems. Fallen Enchantress would be a good starting point for someone with little experience, or Age of Wonder: Shadow Magic.
This. Dom 3 is the "grognard wargame" of Fantasy TBS. It isn't War in the Pacific, but it can get close. Best to do what Huw suggests and start with a bit of lighter fare. Fallen Enchantress has yet to "grab" me, but I can see some potential there.
Well, I'm new to this particular genre but having learns Aurora and WiP I don't have a problem with complexity. Graphics are important I guess...in the way that I love CK2 graphics or AGEOD maps...it doesn't have to be Total war
Quote from: mikeck on March 16, 2013, 02:08:47 PM
Well, I'm new to this particular genre but having learns Aurora and WiP I don't have a problem with complexity. Graphics are important I guess...in the way that I love CK2 graphics or AGEOD maps...it doesn't have to be Total war
yeah, youre coming down a tier or two from CKII and AGEOD
Yeah, saw some screenies...I mean, aurora has no graphics really...not sure though. Anyways, thanks for the info guys
Huh. I thought there used to be a demo of Dominions 3 on Shrapnel's website, but when I went there to check I couldn't even see the game for sale. Looks like Illwinter has moved on.
Quote from: LongBlade on March 16, 2013, 03:42:32 PM
Huh. I thought there used to be a demo of Dominions 3 on Shrapnel's website, but when I went there to check I couldn't even see the game for sale. Looks like Illwinter has moved on.
Demo here
http://illwinter.com/dom3/index.html
Good thread. I've been looking at the game as I enjoy the fantasy genre and find the depth intriguing but I just can't get past the graphics. (I know I'm shallow) The game also seems very heavy on magic. Is this the case?
Well I went and bought it anyway...cause that's what I do...buy games that I may never play.
Quote from: mikeck on March 16, 2013, 02:08:47 PM
Well, I'm new to this particular genre but having learns Aurora and WiP I don't have a problem with complexity. Graphics are important I guess...in the way that I love CK2 graphics or AGEOD maps...it doesn't have to be Total war
You'll be fine on the learning curve, then.
The graphics still aren't up to par with the fluff in AGEOD and CK2, but the content and gameplay is more than enough to make up for it.
Quote from: Nefaro on March 16, 2013, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: mikeck on March 16, 2013, 02:08:47 PM
Well, I'm new to this particular genre but having learns Aurora and WiP I don't have a problem with complexity. Graphics are important I guess...in the way that I love CK2 graphics or AGEOD maps...it doesn't have to be Total war
You'll be fine on the learning curve, then.
The graphics still aren't up to par with the fluff in AGEOD and CK2, but the content and gameplay is more than enough to make up for it.
+1 You're right that the graphics are dire, but the game is just so deep.
I'm assuming there aren't any mods that generally improve the graphics the?
I played the demo a while back and I just drowned in the deepness.
Besides the mod recommendations you can make, is there a particular forum that is more active than others?
Quote from: mikeck on March 16, 2013, 06:51:37 PM
I'm assuming there aren't any mods that generally improve the graphics the?
There are a couple that everyone here has been using to spice up some of the pixel art in the game. I really do enjoy well-done fantasy pixel art, myself. But there are just
so many different unit pix in the game and the current mods have only updated a pretty small portion of those. Some of the originals are passable, IMO, but there are also some that still look a bit too smudged & indistinct. Part of the problem is that there don't seem to be a lot of pixel artists out there who are ready to devote the time to redo'ing the whole set - because it's huge and would take a lot of time. Most of the art doesn't bother me at all and I find it pretty cool because the unit variety is so great anyway.
Another cool thing is that modders have created whole new Nation sets, with brand new unit art to go with them. There are even some Warhammer Fantasy sets!
Well I thought I knew how to play Dominions3 kindof, but you should see this guys tutorials
http://www.youtube.com/user/Das24680?feature=watch
Maps
http://www.llamaserver.net/mapModBrowser.cgi
a nice list of maps with images, so you can see just how much your getting of a game your getting.
It wont just be your fav fantasy game, or your fav stategy game, it will be your fav game of all time.
Q:
When you set a mage to "Search For Magic Sites" in a province, doesn't he automatically do so? There isn't a success roll to see if it worked, is there?
Because I've been seeing some orders not happening during turn resolution, in my AI game. I'm pretty sure there's been one or two times my recruitment didn't dump any of my purchased troops into my home province, too. ???
At first I thought my Site Searches were being interrupted by AI attacks on the same location, and that perhaps the battle interrupted my search. But I just saw one place I had definitely set a mage to Site Search in, and the thing was never attacked - yet still wasn't searched that turn either. The mage came back up on the 'Defend' default order the next turn as if he had (or it didn't work for some reason?). :'(
I dont know Im still noob, but I think the magic level of the Mage has to be higher than what has already been searched, and Main Fortress I think is already searched pre game start. I know Im not much help, but Im learning, so If your more experienced please forgive my noob answers :)
Quote from: Nefaro on March 17, 2013, 02:47:24 AM
Q:
When you set a mage to "Search For Magic Sites" in a province, doesn't he automatically do so? There isn't a success roll to see if it worked, is there?
Because I've been seeing some orders not happening during turn resolution, in my AI game. I'm pretty sure there's been one or two times my recruitment didn't dump any of my purchased troops into my home province, too. ???
At first I thought my Site Searches were being interrupted by AI attacks on the same location, and that perhaps the battle interrupted my search. But I just saw one place I had definitely set a mage to Site Search in, and the thing was never attacked - yet still wasn't searched that turn either. The mage came back up on the 'Defend' default order the next turn as if he had (or it didn't work for some reason?). :'(
Maybe you were disturbed by a hidden army or scout, I find Dom3 has reasons, even if its not to clear, but Im still a noob, so forgive noob answers
The nations overview is an excellent tool to search for magic sites. It will show, at a glance, which searches have already been performed and which mages are present in those provinces now. The coloured numbers with filled backgrounds show the level of search per school you've already done; the ones without the filled backgrounds show what's available.
The same info is also available per-province on the info bar at the top when you have that province selected.
a good walkthrough
http://lparchive.org/Dominions-3/
Quote from: mikeck on March 16, 2013, 05:47:55 PM
Well I went and bought it anyway...cause that's what I do...buy games that I may never play.
Ha! No doubt. I can't count the numbers of games I've bought just in case...
@Nefaro :)
I found some good mods and revamped (excuse the pun ::) ;D) artwork through these links...
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page
Quote from: gameleaper on March 17, 2013, 03:10:36 AM
I dont know Im still noob, but I think the magic level of the Mage has to be higher than what has already been searched, and Main Fortress I think is already searched pre game start. I know Im not much help, but Im learning, so If your more experienced please forgive my noob answers :)
Yeah, it was a fresh province and hadn't been searched at all.
I read somewhere that some scales may give you a failure rate on your searches..? Not really sure, but Misfortune or Drain may give you a fail chance. There's so much stuff rolled up & hidden in each zone's scales.. I don't have them memorized. I hope this is what was happening, and there weren't bugs in that game.
Quote from: Boggit on March 17, 2013, 10:09:07 AM
@Nefaro :)
I found some good mods and revamped (excuse the pun ::) ;D) artwork through these links...
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page
thats a great info site.
Quote from: gameleaper on March 17, 2013, 09:52:25 AM
a good walkthrough
http://lparchive.org/Dominions-3/
This AAR makes me want to buy the game.
Quote from: gameleaper on March 18, 2013, 02:51:34 AM
Quote from: Boggit on March 17, 2013, 10:09:07 AM
@Nefaro :)
I found some good mods and revamped (excuse the pun ::) ;D) artwork through these links...
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page
thats a great info site.
That's the wiki I've been using. Good resource.
It still needs some things filled out, like some unit traits/abilities (for ex.), but it's the best wiki I've seen on it.
There's also 'The Thread' that has tips on each Nation's strengths here:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38122
Quote from: Nefaro on March 18, 2013, 03:08:46 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on March 18, 2013, 02:51:34 AM
Quote from: Boggit on March 17, 2013, 10:09:07 AM
@Nefaro :)
I found some good mods and revamped (excuse the pun ::) ;D) artwork through these links...
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page
thats a great info site.
That's the wiki I've been using. Good resource.
It still needs some things filled out, like some unit traits/abilities (for ex.), but it's the best wiki I've seen on it.
There's also 'The Thread' that has tips on each Nation's strengths here:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38122
thanks Ive added it to my fav links.
Quote from: Nefaro on March 17, 2013, 02:47:24 AM
Q:
When you set a mage to "Search For Magic Sites" in a province, doesn't he automatically do so? There isn't a success roll to see if it worked, is there?
Because I've been seeing some orders not happening during turn resolution, in my AI game. I'm pretty sure there's been one or two times my recruitment didn't dump any of my purchased troops into my home province, too. ???
At first I thought my Site Searches were being interrupted by AI attacks on the same location, and that perhaps the battle interrupted my search. But I just saw one place I had definitely set a mage to Site Search in, and the thing was never attacked - yet still wasn't searched that turn either. The mage came back up on the 'Defend' default order the next turn as if he had (or it didn't work for some reason?). :'(
Nefaro:
If you set a mage to search for sites they do so unless attacked prior to the search. This is very unlikely early in the game.
There is a order in which actions take place in the game. Look at the manual because there are a bunch of things which can happen.
Just because you searched does not mean that there is a magic site present or that the site could be discovered by your mage. If you have a level 1 nature mage search and the site is a level 3 site - then your mage would not discover the site even though they searched.
You can tell if a search occured, and the level of the search, by clicking on the province. At the bottom of the province information you should see a bunch of different colors with a number in each color bar. This represents the type of search which took place (color coded) and the level of search (the number inside the color coded bar).
I've never had a problem searching sites when playing against the AI. But you do need to set the unit to search every time. It is not automatic and must be ordered.
Quote from: airboy on March 18, 2013, 08:52:20 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 17, 2013, 02:47:24 AM
Q:
When you set a mage to "Search For Magic Sites" in a province, doesn't he automatically do so? There isn't a success roll to see if it worked, is there?
Because I've been seeing some orders not happening during turn resolution, in my AI game. I'm pretty sure there's been one or two times my recruitment didn't dump any of my purchased troops into my home province, too. ???
At first I thought my Site Searches were being interrupted by AI attacks on the same location, and that perhaps the battle interrupted my search. But I just saw one place I had definitely set a mage to Site Search in, and the thing was never attacked - yet still wasn't searched that turn either. The mage came back up on the 'Defend' default order the next turn as if he had (or it didn't work for some reason?). :'(
Nefaro:
If you set a mage to search for sites they do so unless attacked prior to the search. This is very unlikely early in the game.
There is a order in which actions take place in the game. Look at the manual because there are a bunch of things which can happen.
Just because you searched does not mean that there is a magic site present or that the site could be discovered by your mage. If you have a level 1 nature mage search and the site is a level 3 site - then your mage would not discover the site even though they searched.
You can tell if a search occured, and the level of the search, by clicking on the province. At the bottom of the province information you should see a bunch of different colors with a number in each color bar. This represents the type of search which took place (color coded) and the level of search (the number inside the color coded bar).
I've never had a problem searching sites when playing against the AI. But you do need to set the unit to search every time. It is not automatic and must be ordered.
Yeah... I knew all this stuff. I suspect I was attacked (random indie army?) and just didn't notice the crossed swords symbol there. It certainly didn't have the colored-in box & number of having been searched so something must've interrupted me.
Also.. from what I've read .. you only need rank 4 in a type of magic to find all sites in that location for that specific one. For example, searching a location with a Fire-4 mage will reveal
all Fire locations there (you don't need 9 in it). This is what I read on a guide or wiki recently. Can anyone confirm??
Admittedly.. a commander with level 4 in magic is pretty rare until later in the game with high-level summons, boosters, etc (except your Pretender of course).
I don't know if there are sites higher than level 4. There are a number of nations with recruitable L4 mages in a single area. Ermor and Abysia immediately come to mind.
Most of the time I'm finding that searches are done by either L1 or L2 mage paths or by remote searching by ritual spell which is always a level 9 search.
Incidentally, Undercovergeek has begun reporting on our first local Groghead multiplayer game in a while, here:
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5134.0
He's lagging his AAR about 6 turns behind where we actually are, to help protect himself from our scouting him, but he writes good reports so it's a great way to get an introduction to the game while also being able to ask questions in progress. (The rest of us players are allowed to comment on his thread, too.)
Btw, the only thing worse than the graphics in this game are the sfx. Heh. Unique if limited musical soundtrack, though. (Traditional Christian (and maybe also pagan) Scandanavian hymns.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 18, 2013, 10:28:30 PM
Btw, the only thing worse than the graphics in this game are the sfx. Heh. Unique if limited musical soundtrack, though. (Traditional Christian (and maybe also pagan) Scandanavian hymns.)
Yeah, I like the soundtrack but it's very repetitive. I wonder if there's a way to replace it.
The sounds are definitely lacking. Hell.. I keep thinking that my Skele-spam is someone sucking down the last noisy bit of a fountain drink.
I had considered tracking down some sound file replacements to edit and pop in but that's a lot of legwork.. I'd rather just suffer the weird digitally-created screams at the moment.
Note for anyone who recently bought Dom3 through Desera and/or Gamersgate: the Grogheads Middle Age multiplayer game for newbies has now opened up for players (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5408.new#new).
Dominions 3 has finally been Greenlit on Steam!
(Just before the launch of Dominions 4...)
Arrghhh..... still need to play and learn
PE
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 28, 2013, 12:26:16 PM
Dominions 3 has finally been Greenlit on Steam!
(Just before the launch of Dominions 4...)
MY LACK OF SURPRISE! --
IT PALPITATES!!(I'm actually very happy for them, but I did think that if anything got Steam to Greenlight the game it would be Dom4's coming release.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 28, 2013, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 28, 2013, 12:26:16 PM
Dominions 3 has finally been Greenlit on Steam!
(Just before the launch of Dominions 4...)
MY LACK OF SURPRISE! -- IT PALPITATES!!
(I'm actually very happy for them, but I did think that if anything got Steam to Greenlight the game it would be Dom4's coming release.)
Since any new customers they get on Steam will be impulse buyers who likely haven't been exposed to Dominions 3, it may be a better idea to just mark down Dom3 and sell it cheaper for awhile, first.
Lower price point = more impulse buyers. Then the ones who get hooked will feel compelled to get Dom4 before long. Hit a range of pricepoints and all that.
^^ Very much agree. Sort of the Eador strategy.