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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 09:53:29 AM

Title: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 09:53:29 AM
Anytime I load up a wargame to play I always run down a list of units/weapon systems that I dread confronting.  I then find myself obsessed with locating and then destroying that unit/weapon. 

The German 88mm is my most dreaded weapon.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fww2total.com%2FWW2%2FWeapons%2FArtillery%2FGuns%2FGerman%2FFlak-36%2Fimages%2FAcht-Acht-Pak_Russian-mud-px800.jpg&hash=095c11af4e278bff7cb23bd0e0f1aa3852180a08)

This weapon system is a beast to face.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: ArizonaTank on March 24, 2013, 10:08:31 AM
Put it into an armored turret and it is even more deadly.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 10:46:59 AM
I also fear the StuG III, Ausf. G

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wwiivehicles.com%2Fgermany%2Fself-propelled%2Fsturmgeschutz-self-propelled-gun%2Fstug-iii-ausf-e%2Fstug-iii-ausf-e-01.png&hash=5dac2249cd1185092117d27b415fe13a495feb38)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: bbmike on March 24, 2013, 11:19:28 AM
Gandhi's nukes in Civilization III.  8)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: LongBlade on March 24, 2013, 11:21:20 AM
The 88 is the biggest problem the Allies had up to the end of the war.

Very late in the war the Soviets produced some armor that it couldn't penetrate, but without question 88's are a high priority in any game.

Playing as the Germans, the biggest problem is the volume of Allied armor. The priority there is to take out as many tanks as possible - Fireflies first if they're on the map.

Also to be watched - flamethrowers of any side.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: son_of_montfort on March 24, 2013, 11:46:25 AM
The Blackrock Sword in Ultima 7 & 7 pt. 2. Closely followed by the Hoe of Destruction.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: undercovergeek on March 24, 2013, 11:53:01 AM
Great topic - on the table dreadnoughts and terminator armour, of chaos warriors on horseback

As the IJ forces in witp - corsairs and devastators

As the germans in cmbn - us paratroopers - tough as nails!!

As the allies in cmbn - tigers and panthers

In fm2010 - wayne rooney or robin van persie

And in eu/ckII the HRE or ottomans
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 11:58:59 AM
Quote from: Bison on March 24, 2013, 10:46:59 AM
I also fear the StuG III, Ausf. G

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wwiivehicles.com%2Fgermany%2Fself-propelled%2Fsturmgeschutz-self-propelled-gun%2Fstug-iii-ausf-e%2Fstug-iii-ausf-e-01.png&hash=5dac2249cd1185092117d27b415fe13a495feb38)

That's actually a StuG III Ausf A or B, (or possibly a C or D) with the short L24 75mm, originally intended for infantry support. It did carry some AP rounds but was primarily meant for HE delivery.

This is the G (in Finnish colors):

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F9a%2FStuG_III_Ausf._G.jpg&hash=95fd2308d78edf5a2e0968d09c5062e9a96527a0)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 12:33:06 PM
Yes.  But it's the coolest StuG photo I saw. 
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 12:34:26 PM
True, it is cool.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Longdan on March 24, 2013, 12:41:18 PM
Allied soldiers were obsessed with the "88" and tended to blame everything on them.
For good reason I spose.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 12:42:41 PM
Yeah.   They killed a lot of tanks and men.

The point here boys is to talk about weapon systems/units you fear too when you see them in a wargame.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Longdan on March 24, 2013, 12:59:35 PM
Same thing.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: besilarius on March 24, 2013, 01:24:30 PM
Japanese Type 24 torpedoes, Long Lance.
They were way over engineered with far too much range built in.  The only time that turned out to be useful was at Java Sea where they faced a disorganized Allied command which had no time for working up.  Other long range attacks were invariably a waste of time.
At close range and in the dark, they were killers.
Samuel Morrison in his history put it nicely, "It was as if a group of big game hunters, carrying long range elephant rifles were ambushed in an alley by a gang carrying blackjacks."
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 01:25:42 PM
What game Besilarius?
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 01:26:49 PM
Having said that I should had that the 88s in CMBN and Battle Academy are particularly deadly.

In Command Ops, I cringe when I see a StuG unit prowling around on the field.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Longdan on March 24, 2013, 01:31:00 PM
Quote from: besilarius on March 24, 2013, 01:24:30 PM
Japanese Type 24 torpedoes, Long Lance.
They were way over engineered with far too much range built in.  The only time that turned out to be useful was at Java Sea where they faced a disorganized Allied command which had no time for working up.  Other long range attacks were invariably a waste of time.
At close range and in the dark, they were killers.
Samuel Morrison in his history put it nicely, "It was as if a group of big game hunters, carrying long range elephant rifles were ambushed in an alley by a gang carrying blackjacks."

Savo Island?
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Herman Hum on March 24, 2013, 01:57:55 PM
Tu-22M Backfire bombers armed with AA-9 Amos air-to-air missiles.  :)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Martok on March 24, 2013, 04:19:18 PM
In Medieval Total War/Viking Invasion, I've always dreaded having to face off against Huscarles, especially those from the Viking factions.  They have SCARY good stats; their only drawbacks are cost and slower foot speed. 


In vanilla (un-modded) Birth of the Federation, I always made a point of gunning down the Klingons' K'Vort-class heavy cruiser (Bird-of-Prey) and the Federation's Defiant-class heavy escort on the rare occasions I ran into one.  Jesus H those two ships were overpowered. 

Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Nefaro on March 24, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
Quote from: Herman Hum on March 24, 2013, 01:57:55 PM
Tu-22M Backfire bombers armed with AA-9 Amos air-to-air missiles.  :)

A buttload of Kitchens, from a swarm of those Backfires, also lend pucker factor on their own accord.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 04:36:16 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 24, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
Quote from: Herman Hum on March 24, 2013, 01:57:55 PM
Tu-22M Backfire bombers armed with AA-9 Amos air-to-air missiles.  :)

A buttload of Kitchens, from a swarm of those Backfires, also lend pucker factor on their own accord.

I have no idea what you just said Nefaro.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Sparhawk on March 24, 2013, 04:39:51 PM
Speaking of cool pictures of stugs, I recall my favorite years ago possibly posted on Wargamer, where they dug one out of the mud. If I recall properly it was painted in winter camo.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: TheCommandTent on March 24, 2013, 04:46:49 PM
Always fear the Creeper in Minecraft.... trust me on this.


Also the MG42 always makes me a bit nervous, especially if I have infantry that must cross open ground.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: jomni on March 24, 2013, 05:32:39 PM
The Creeper in Minecraft. Hehehe.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: Bison on March 24, 2013, 04:36:16 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 24, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
Quote from: Herman Hum on March 24, 2013, 01:57:55 PM
Tu-22M Backfire bombers armed with AA-9 Amos air-to-air missiles.  :)

A buttload of Kitchens, from a swarm of those Backfires, also lend pucker factor on their own accord.

I have no idea what you just said Nefaro.

Kh-22 Raduga NATO codename- 'Kitchen' Standoff Cruise missile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-22

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F9%2F95%2FRaduga_Kh-22.jpg%2F800px-Raduga_Kh-22.jpg&hash=1c8ca7c1b30074fd3453218e4281b0ca9a9540ac)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: LongBlade on March 24, 2013, 05:41:54 PM
Quote from: Bison on March 24, 2013, 01:26:49 PM
Having said that I should had that the 88s in CMBN and Battle Academy are particularly deadly.

In Command Ops, I cringe when I see a StuG unit prowling around on the field.

88's are great in Steel Panthers, too. Stugs as well.

In the PTO with Steel Panthers my go-to gun in the 3" naval gun for the USMC. Never leave home without it. Three or four are even better. With it the USMC pounds the Hell out of the Japanese. It's awesome!
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: undercovergeek on March 24, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
thargoids
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: sandman2575 on March 24, 2013, 06:04:26 PM
Quote from: Bison on March 24, 2013, 09:53:29 AM

The German 88mm is my most dreaded weapon.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fww2total.com%2FWW2%2FWeapons%2FArtillery%2FGuns%2FGerman%2FFlak-36%2Fimages%2FAcht-Acht-Pak_Russian-mud-px800.jpg&hash=095c11af4e278bff7cb23bd0e0f1aa3852180a08)



is that an 88?  It looks more like the 150mm sFH ...?
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: bob48 on March 24, 2013, 06:08:38 PM
No, its the PAK version of the 88.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: MetalDog on March 24, 2013, 06:12:12 PM
The stack of DOOM in Civ IV.  Especially if you aren't ready for it.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 06:20:23 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 24, 2013, 06:04:26 PM
It looks more like the 150mm sFH ...?

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forgottenhistory.co.uk%2Fimages%2FContent%2FPhotos%2FBielefeld%2FLauter_Catterick%2FArtillerypiece.jpg&hash=a107a4f2de1aeec3ac656ad527f08f8b1c859bfa)

They do look pretty similar and no I am not going to pretend to be an expert on every variant of WW2 weapon system, because I am not.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 06:52:28 PM
Howitzers don't (usually, anyway) require gunshields. For an AT gun, they're pretty common. Pesky infantry and coax MGs...
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 06:56:54 PM
Not a wargame but the witches in Left 4 Dead 2 freak me the hell out.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 06:58:05 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 06:56:54 PM
Not a wargame but the witches in Left 4 Dead 2 freak me the hell out.

Surprisingly I never heard you scream.  Maybe that's why you went radio silent.


The 88 was a flak gun.   Anti-aircraft and anti-tank.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 06:58:37 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 06:56:54 PM
Not a wargame but the witches in Left 4 Dead 2 freak me the hell out.

You do realize the this thread was started by 'Not a Wargame' Bison, right?  :D
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 07:00:41 PM
Well I was going to say something about Tent's mine craft, but I held back.  :D
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 07:01:04 PM
^Of course :)

I am no expert either but the German 88 was used in almost every combat role imaginable for 60+ years, no?
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 07:02:57 PM
Yeah it was a beast of a weapon system.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 07:05:32 PM
Quote from: Bison on March 24, 2013, 06:58:05 PM

The 88 was a flak gun.   Anti-aircraft and anti-tank.

The original concept for the 88 was as a DP Flak/AT which was why the crews had a few AT rounds with them during the Battle of France. Later on there was a dedicated Antitank (PaK43) version which could not engage air targets. That is the version with the wheels and sloped shield. The earlier DP Flak43 was mounted on a cruciform pedestal from which the wheels were removed when deployed.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 07:07:24 PM
So we are in agreement.  The 88 was both an anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapon system.  8)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 07:10:09 PM
... and then there was the KwK36, which was mounted in the Tiger, just to muddy things up.  :D
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 07:10:18 PM
Doesn't the 88 pre-date WWII and was in service in one form or another from the 1890s on?
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 07:14:31 PM
The gun caliber (88mm) was, IIRC, introduced in late WW1. The actual guns are all somewhat different designs, much like all 75mm guns are also not the same (both the Sherman and Panther mounted a 75mm gun but they were very different from  each other).
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 07:24:42 PM
Their origin is a little murky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_88

"The 88s were first produced in 1928. These early models, the Flak 18, used a single-piece barrel with a length of 56 calibres, leading to the commonly-seen designation L/56.e 88s were first produced in 1928."
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 07:25:54 PM
The first such German gun was introduced in 1917, and it used caliber 88 mm, common in the Kaiserliche Marine German navy

From you wiki link.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 07:27:46 PM
Also this:

"Initially, anti-aircraft artillery guns of World War I were adaptations of existing medium-calibre weapons, mounted to allow fire at higher angles. By 1915, the German command realized that these are useless for anything beyond deterrence, even against the vulnerable balloons and slow-moving aircraft."

Further mucks up the 88's origin...
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: LongBlade on March 24, 2013, 07:40:51 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 06:52:28 PM
Howitzers don't (usually, anyway) require gunshields. For an AT gun, they're pretty common. Pesky infantry and coax MGs...

That was going to be my observation when I got to the end of the thread and if I hadn't seen it. :)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: sandman2575 on March 24, 2013, 07:43:09 PM
well, I learned something new about the 88 today. 

All this talk has me kinda itching to fire up ToW Kursk '43.  Too bad the 88 doesn't appear in the Achtung Panzer games, although the leFH 105 does, and is pretty cool. 

Although not too many games feature it (I hope it will show up in the new Company of Heroes), for my money the most "oh s**t" weapon I can think of in the WW2 context is the KV-2.  It's like the Frankenstein's Monster of tanks.  There's a fun scenario in Conflict of Heroes where you have to take one of these out, using only your pitiful array of Pz II's and III's. 

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F94%2FKW-2_1940.jpg&hash=7b7fe43e932c61d1a46947db86f50b4e863ef317)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: LongBlade on March 24, 2013, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 07:10:09 PM
... and then there was the KwK36, which was mounted in the Tiger, just to muddy things up.  :D

IIRC the "36" in the KwK36 refers to the year of introduction, no?
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: LongBlade on March 24, 2013, 07:45:04 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 24, 2013, 07:43:09 PM
well, I learned something new about the 88 today. 

All this talk has me kinda itching to fire up ToW Kursk '43.  Too bad the 88 doesn't appear in the Achtung Panzer games, although the leFH 105 does, and is pretty cool. 

Although not too many games feature it (I hope it will show up in the new Company of Heroes), for my money the most "oh s**t" weapon I can think of in the WW2 context is the KV-2.  It's like the Frankenstein's Monster of tanks.  There's a fun scenario in Conflict of Heroes where you have to take one of these out, using only your pitiful array of Pz II's and III's. 

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F94%2FKW-2_1940.jpg&hash=7b7fe43e932c61d1a46947db86f50b4e863ef317)

In the Rock-Paper-Scissors of tactical wargaming, that's where I'd either reach for an 88 or a Stuka. Or some hearty Finns with Molotovs...
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on March 24, 2013, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on March 24, 2013, 07:10:09 PM
... and then there was the KwK36, which was mounted in the Tiger, just to muddy things up.  :D

IIRC the "36" in the KwK36 refers to the year of introduction, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_KwK_36
I believe it might refer to the year of development, but I could be wrong. It seems to be known as both the KwK36 and KwK43.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 07:55:02 PM
I thought I saw something like that in my last game of Battle Academy.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Al on March 24, 2013, 07:57:03 PM
The KV-2 was impressive looking if not the most effective.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 07:58:59 PM
Panzer Campaigns.  Excellent series Al.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 08:02:40 PM
That KV-2 is crazy looking. It looks like a toll booth with a bad attitude and treads.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Bison on March 24, 2013, 08:03:17 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 08:02:40 PM
That KV-2 is crazy looking. It looks like a toll booth with a bad attitude and treads.

LMAFO!
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: LongBlade on March 24, 2013, 08:06:19 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 08:02:40 PM
That KV-2 is crazy looking. It looks like a toll booth with a bad attitude and treads.

Soviet-era art. Go figure.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: TheCommandTent on March 24, 2013, 08:21:20 PM
Quote from: Bison on March 24, 2013, 07:00:41 PM
Well I was going to say something about Tent's mine craft, but I held back.  :D

Hey I threw in a wargame weapon in that post as well.   :P
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: FrontierCybrarian on March 25, 2013, 03:42:31 AM
The most fantastic book I bought this past year for weapon comparison is:

Weapons of World War II: Compared & Contrasted, by Michael E. Haskew, published 2012
http://www.booksamillion.com/p/Weapons-World-War-II/Michael-E-Haskew/9780785829256?id=5534974291409

It's a large 9"x12", 224pp full color book comparing Air Power, Armoured Fighting Vehicles, Artillery & Missiles, Naval Power, and Small Arms. Such areas as top speed, armament, caliber, rate of fire, distance, etc. are covered.

I paid twice the price as the link shown above and I still feel like I got a bargain. It's a downright beautiful and awesome book.

As to my vote for the most feared weapon it would have to be the Super Rail Gun 80cm Schwerer Gustav (1329 tons). A quote from page 127 of the book mentions, "At 800mm (31.5in), the type was the largest-caliber weapon in history to actually participate in combat and fired armour-piercing shells weighing 7100kg (15,653lb.)"

Unfortunately, right off I can't think of a true WW2 wargame having this particular railgun. Some member, smarter than I, can indicate which game(s) have railguns in them (not the sci-fi electromagnetic ones).
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Staggerwing on March 25, 2013, 05:41:15 AM
Something that covers the siege of Sevastipol might include the Gustav.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 06:58:13 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 24, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
Quote from: Herman Hum on March 24, 2013, 01:57:55 PM
Tu-22M Backfire bombers armed with AA-9 Amos air-to-air missiles.  :)

A buttload of Kitchens, from a swarm of those Backfires, also lend pucker factor on their own accord.
Kitchens? No - I find the Kingfish loadout worse being harder to intercept too. Just one of those buggers will trash any ship in Harpoon. :( Playing Harpoon I have survived Kitchens, but Kingfish are just... nasty.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: bob48 on March 25, 2013, 06:59:28 AM
There are KV2's in CoH (Board game version).
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Herman Hum on March 25, 2013, 07:01:49 AM
Quote from: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 06:58:13 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 24, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
Quote from: Herman Hum on March 24, 2013, 01:57:55 PM
Tu-22M Backfire bombers armed with AA-9 Amos air-to-air missiles.  :)

A buttload of Kitchens, from a swarm of those Backfires, also lend pucker factor on their own accord.
Kitchens? No - I find the Kingfish loadout worse being harder to intercept too. Just one of those buggers will trash any ship in Harpoon. :( Playing Harpoon I have survived Kitchens, but Kingfish are just... nasty.
Have you ever been under attack from the AS-16 Kickback?  The Backfires can carry 10 of these nasty buggers.  The warheads are smaller, but they are super-fast!
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 07:04:38 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on March 24, 2013, 07:45:04 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 24, 2013, 07:43:09 PM
well, I learned something new about the 88 today. 

All this talk has me kinda itching to fire up ToW Kursk '43.  Too bad the 88 doesn't appear in the Achtung Panzer games, although the leFH 105 does, and is pretty cool. 

Although not too many games feature it (I hope it will show up in the new Company of Heroes), for my money the most "oh s**t" weapon I can think of in the WW2 context is the KV-2.  It's like the Frankenstein's Monster of tanks.  There's a fun scenario in Conflict of Heroes where you have to take one of these out, using only your pitiful array of Pz II's and III's. 

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F94%2FKW-2_1940.jpg&hash=7b7fe43e932c61d1a46947db86f50b4e863ef317)

In the Rock-Paper-Scissors of tactical wargaming, that's where I'd either reach for an 88 or a Stuka. Or some hearty Finns with Molotovs...
Hearty Finns... :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M8_hS0gqU8&feature=related
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 07:06:33 AM
Quote from: Herman Hum on March 25, 2013, 07:01:49 AM
Quote from: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 06:58:13 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 24, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
Quote from: Herman Hum on March 24, 2013, 01:57:55 PM
Tu-22M Backfire bombers armed with AA-9 Amos air-to-air missiles.  :)

A buttload of Kitchens, from a swarm of those Backfires, also lend pucker factor on their own accord.
Kitchens? No - I find the Kingfish loadout worse being harder to intercept too. Just one of those buggers will trash any ship in Harpoon. :( Playing Harpoon I have survived Kitchens, but Kingfish are just... nasty.
Have you ever been under attack from the AS-16 Kickback?  The Backfires can carry 10 of these nasty buggers.  The warheads are smaller, but they are super-fast!
No. They sound like they'd ruin my day.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: MIGMaster on March 25, 2013, 07:20:35 AM
Any SP scenario based in Korea where I'm trying to stop NK T-34's with howitzers and bazookas.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 07:25:11 AM
Quote from: MIGMaster on March 25, 2013, 07:20:35 AM
Any SP scenario based in Korea where I'm trying to stop NK T-34's with howitzers and bazookas.
Like TF Smith. It's pretty one sided. Same in real life. :(
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: MIGMaster on March 25, 2013, 07:57:55 AM
I could never win that scenario - I still wake up in the middle of the night screaming!!
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: sandman2575 on March 25, 2013, 08:38:10 AM
Quote from: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 07:04:38 AM
Hearty Finns... :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M8_hS0gqU8&feature=related

nice clip!
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: MengJiao on March 25, 2013, 08:40:34 AM
Quote from: Bison on March 24, 2013, 09:53:29 AM
Anytime I load up a wargame to play I always run down a list of units/weapon systems that I dread confronting.  I then find myself obsessed with locating and then destroying that unit/weapon. 

The German 88mm is my most dreaded weapon.

The 88 is nasty, but when you catch it with the Punjab Penal Recon Patrol loaded in the desert at night: BOOM!  No more 88s.  Many happy Punjabis!

Plus in WWII online, getting a knife kill on a 88 was quite satisfying.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: W8taminute on March 25, 2013, 08:56:35 AM
Not really a wargame but it is a game about war.  My most feared weapon is the torque bow in Gears of War.  The image below sums up the reason why nicely.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m42lmk2mEg1r45x2yo1_1280.png&hash=85dd3d18c1afbcb52c5d2e5658bc3b5543946414)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: bboyer66 on March 25, 2013, 09:05:38 AM
My FOCH 155 in World of Tanks.

155mm gun with a 3 round autoloader, lets me take out almost any tank in the game in about 12 seconds.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.mmo-vault.net%2Fsites%2Fall%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fgallery%2Famx_40_foch_155a.jpg&hash=3de73061fe09b5202c5cb27bb6d0c3c6d40c38b3)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: MengJiao on March 25, 2013, 09:41:03 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on March 24, 2013, 08:06:19 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 24, 2013, 08:02:40 PM
That KV-2 is crazy looking. It looks like a toll booth with a bad attitude and treads.

Soviet-era art. Go figure.

Well, I've been playing ARMAIII so I don't know what I fear exactly.  Pretty much anything that goes bang! and makes me jump and get back from the screen while the AI dudes yell or grunt and die and I have no idea what's going on.

I must be enjoying ARMAIII quite a lot.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Sir Slash on March 25, 2013, 10:05:41 AM
I can remember an old CMBB user-made scenario with a KV-2 in it. Playing Germans you had PZ KW3 & 4's, 50mm AT guns and 47mm Panzerjagers. I knew the 47mm & 50mm's wouldn't do squat against the KV's tough hide but thought for sure the Mk 4's 75mm could knock it out at close range. No way. The German tanks would scatter any time it showed it's ugly face but even when inside 100 meters the AP shots just pinked against the turret armor and the MK 4's never would fire at the hull. The only thing that saved my armor was it took about 30 min. for the damned thing to load and fire. Finally taken-out by a German infantry unit with a grenade bundle that disabled it and the crew abonded it. What a monster. I remember in RTW the first time my legionaries faced a unit of War Elephants, that scared the crap out of me but they weren't that tough in the end. Do the Dragons in Baldur's Gate 2 count?
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: LongBlade on March 25, 2013, 10:12:45 AM
Quote from: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 07:04:38 AM
Hearty Finns... :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M8_hS0gqU8&feature=related

Nice find :)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: FrontierCybrarian on March 25, 2013, 11:59:22 AM
The most fantastic book I bought this past year for weapon comparison is:

Weapons of World War II: Compared & Contrasted, by Michael E. Haskew, published 2012
http://www.booksamillion.com/p/Weapons-World-War-II/Michael-E-Haskew/9780785829256?id=5534974291409

It's a large 9"x12", 224pp full color book comparing Air Power, Armoured Fighting Vehicles, Artillery & Missiles, Naval Power, and Small Arms. Such areas as top speed, armament, caliber, rate of fire, distance, etc. are covered.

I paid twice the price as the link shown above and I still feel like I got a bargain. It's a downright beautiful and awesome book.

As to my vote for the most feared weapon it would have to be the Super Rail Gun 80cm Schwerer Gustav (1329 tons). A quote from page 127 of the book mentions, "At 800mm (31.5in), the type was the largest-caliber weapon in history to actually participate in combat and fired armour-piercing shells weighing 7100kg (15,653lb.)"

Unfortunately, right off I can't think of a true WW2 wargame having this particular railgun. Some member, smarter than I, can indicate which game(s) have railguns in them (not the sci-fi electromagnetic ones).

Quote from: Staggerwing on March 25, 2013, 05:41:15 AM
Something that covers the siege of Sevastipol might include the Gustav.

Staggerwing, you know your history. It is claimed that after 48 rounds the Gustav barrel was ruined. Maybe so much power and unwieldy size wasn't worth the effort in research, development, deployment, and manning.

Perhaps the hardcore wargame, Railroad Tycoon WW2 edition, Ukraine expansion would have the mighty Gustav railgun. Now, if only I can find a copy for the pc.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: LongBlade on March 25, 2013, 12:06:37 PM
Thanks, Frontier.

I don't see that book on Amazon. Looks like a winner, though :)
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: FrontierCybrarian on March 25, 2013, 12:21:38 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on March 25, 2013, 12:06:37 PM
Thanks, Frontier.

I don't see that book on Amazon. Looks like a winner, though :)

Longblade, Yesterday Amazon had a poor pathetic listing (very little description, no photo) for it at around $24. But today it appears someone put in a better reference to it at great prices. It may be interested members lucky day. This book should be in every Groghead member's library.

http://www.amazon.com/Weapons-World-War-Compared-Contrasted/dp/0785829253/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364231792&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=weapons+of+wwii+haskew

If I purchased this again I'd go with any of the used $8.70 to $8.97 (plus $3.99 s/h) copies. I've dealt with the sellers before and often their copies are "like new" at great prices. The delivery times were prompt, also.

Two reviews are provided and I definitely lean more towards the 5/5 rating while the second reviewer has very nit-picky criticism. A book of such magnitude can't cover all variants of aircraft, weapons, and features. For 224pp. the famous military author, Michael E. Haskew, has done a fantastic job.
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: LongBlade on March 25, 2013, 02:04:36 PM
Thanks, Frontier.

Here's the GH's Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785829253/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0785829253&linkCode=as2&tag=grogheads-20

I'm thinking with your endorsement, this is a must-have!
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Windigo on March 25, 2013, 02:48:21 PM
Quote from: bboyer66 on March 25, 2013, 09:05:38 AM
My FOCH 155 in World of Tanks.

155mm gun with a 3 round autoloader, lets me take out almost any tank in the game in about 12 seconds.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.mmo-vault.net%2Fsites%2Fall%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fgallery%2Famx_40_foch_155a.jpg&hash=3de73061fe09b5202c5cb27bb6d0c3c6d40c38b3)

"I hate you... and your FOCH!"
-- signed, ex-Maus driver
Title: Re: Most Feared Weapon System or Unit in Wargames
Post by: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 05:08:22 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 25, 2013, 08:38:10 AM
Quote from: Boggit on March 25, 2013, 07:04:38 AM
Hearty Finns... :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M8_hS0gqU8&feature=related

nice clip!
You're welcome. It's from "Talvisota" (Winter War) I have it on a double DVD with "Ambush 41" about the Finnish Continuation War. Both the films are based on novels by author Antii Tuuri.

Another good one is Tali-Ihantala 1944. I've seen the full film and it's on my to get list. It focuses on vignettes of the wider battle that caused the Russians to decide on a peace offer with Finland in 1944.
I hope you enjoy the taster clip -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbOLHzMA78g&feature=related