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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: Grim.Reaper on March 28, 2013, 07:50:11 PM

Title: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on March 28, 2013, 07:50:11 PM
Haven't heard much chatter on this game......saw beta access starts on April 2nd for pre-order customers.....hhmm...is this another game I need to pick up:)  I guess I need to decide by next Tuesday.

http://blogs.sega.com/2013/03/28/company-of-heroes-2-closed-beta-begins-next-week/
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: FrontierCybrarian on March 28, 2013, 08:08:56 PM
GrimReaper, this game was delayed due to original company auctioned their titles off and Sega picked it up. Thanks for updating us on it's progress. I've had it pre-ordered on Amazon from the start.

It's a must buy if you enjoy WW2 rts and the Russian/German theater. The original Company of Heroes is still one of the higher rated rts titles. The graphics and game play were quite good. I did not like the superfluous patching used though.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on March 28, 2013, 09:19:49 PM
^I agree the patching process for CoH was highly annoying and inefficient -- hopefully Relic is being smarter about things this time.  I only object to the use of the past tense -- game play is still quite good -- excellent, in fact!


Day One purchase without question.  Not many games I say that about.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: FrontierCybrarian on March 28, 2013, 09:57:53 PM
sandman2575, right you are! CoH graphics and play are still outstanding...quality title that holds up well despite a couple years old. Unlike some games that age quickly or prematurely. Thanks for pointing out my "past tensing" since it could/probably gives the wrong impression. We're on the same page here for sure. CoH is dynamite and has dynamite.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on March 29, 2013, 03:38:14 PM
I will also be buying this on Day One, as long as I have played through the originals by that day.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on March 29, 2013, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 29, 2013, 03:38:14 PM
I will also be buying this on Day One, as long as I have played through the originals by that day.


Get to it!  The campaigns in both CoH original and Opposing Fronts are really hugely fun.  The game shines in sandbox mode of course, but this is one of those rare titles where campaign and sandbox are both terrific.

I particularly love the British campaign.  The bombed-out Caen map is awesome.  And you get to use my favorite CoH unit:  the Churchill.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffeatures.cgsociety.org%2Fnewgallerycrits%2Fg30%2F24430%2F24430_1226447014_large.jpg&hash=97eb24a0fca1b58d2a719352e980ad7aad52bfd3)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on March 29, 2013, 04:55:05 PM
^Whoa. You know, I didn't even know CoH had a sandbox mode.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on March 29, 2013, 06:00:25 PM
What's the major new improvements in version 2?
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on March 29, 2013, 06:19:34 PM
Sandbox is great, especially with some of the 'overhaul' mods like Normandy '44, Battle of the Bulge, and Blitzkrieg (all excellent).  Then there's MP too, if that floats your boat (I stick to sp myself).

In terms of new features, this video dev diary gives some info --

http://www.companyofheroes.com/media/videos (http://www.companyofheroes.com/media/videos)

My sense is that CoH2 isn't a total rethinking of the game, but more of an evolution of the original, which frankly I think is the right move.   If it ain't broke, don't fix it... but do add awesome new features, gfx, and RUSSIANS...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on March 29, 2013, 06:26:27 PM
Really tempted....60 dollars at little steep....but who knows
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on March 30, 2013, 03:43:06 AM
What version did you all buy, the 60 or 100 dollar version?
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 12:44:06 PM
I cannot justify getting the 100.00 version. Hell I don't know if I can justify the 60.00 version. Both prices feel unreasonably high, especially when I got the CoH and each expansion for 7.25 total.

Sounds like CoH mods are top quality. Looking forward to trying some.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on March 31, 2013, 01:10:47 PM
I'm pretty ambivalent about pre-ordering or the more recent 'buy the beta' trend.  I understand the motivation on the part of the retailers to do this.  But for me, something still doesn't 'feel' right about paying up front for a game that's not going to be released for several months -- or for a game in a 'mostly but not quite entirely finished' beta state.

So I haven't bought CoH2 yet.  $60 is indeed a lot of money to shell out -- although I'm sure once the game releases 'officially' in June, I will not be able to resist.  No way I'm paying $100 for it though.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 01:17:20 PM
It's got to be something truly special for me to jump on a beta or a pre-order these days.

Maybe if they have one for Space Hulk or the upcoming Warhammer: Total War game...but if I am not going to bite for the CoH2 beta, I probably won't bite for any beta.

I'm getting too old for this...wake me 6 months after the game has been released and it has been discounted by half and then I will merrily swoop in.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on March 31, 2013, 03:23:04 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 01:17:20 PM
It's got to be something truly special for me to jump on a beta or a pre-order these days.

Maybe if they have one for Space Hulk or the upcoming Warhammer: Total War game...but if I am not going to bite for the CoH2 beta, I probably won't bite for any beta.

I'm getting too old for this...wake me 6 months after the game has been released and it has been discounted by half and then I will merrily swoop in.

Pre-order with the chance to be part of the beta, doesn't bother me at all....actually love it.  However, although I own all the original COH games, never completely got into them so that is why I am hesitant.  I am probably only fooling myself in thinking I won't pull the trigger:)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 04:52:39 PM
Didn't really get into them eh? That's one of the few dissenting opinions I have seen. What didn't you like?
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on March 31, 2013, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 04:52:39 PM
Didn't really get into them eh? That's one of the few dissenting opinions I have seen. What didn't you like?

For me in general, I struggle with rts games...this one always looked good but I found it hard to control all my troops.  Same thing with men of war series and really any rts games.  So likely not the specific fault of the game, just the genre.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 05:11:58 PM
Ah ok...there must have been a lot to like too since you're queuing up for the new one, though.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on March 31, 2013, 05:14:55 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 05:11:58 PM
Ah ok...there must have been a lot to like too since you're queuing up for the new one, though.

I am liking the eastern theatre and a couple if the new features...dynamic spotting and the snow.  Seems like they might be getting into some new territory.

I am thinking maybe I didn't give the original it's due, so will try with version 2:)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 05:18:00 PM
The Eastern Front is what makes it a lock for me too.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on March 31, 2013, 05:50:29 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 31, 2013, 04:57:10 PM
For me in general, I struggle with rts games...this one always looked good but I found it hard to control all my troops.


I definitely sympathize.  As the years go by (cue violin music), I find I'm definitely not able to cope with RTS the way I used to -- even thinking back to 2007 when I first played CoH, my reflexes just aren't the same now.  But I have to say I don't find CoH quite as frantic as some other RTS.  I pause pretty frequently to issue orders to multiple units, so sometimes it's like I'm playing it WEGO. 

I hadn't fired CoH up in a while, but this conversation got me inspired to boot it up again for a bit.  I'm just always impressed by how much fun the game is.  I have enormous patience for pretty much anything WW2 themed, but CoH really does have a special place in my gaming heart.  It's not perfect, but Relic just got a ton of stuff right.  It's not 'groggy,' sure, but it's like a really great Hollywood vision of WW2 -- 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'Band of Brothers.'  I find i'm entirely willing to 'suspend my disbelief' when I'm playing.

Anyway, this just to say, don't let the fact that CoH / CoH2 is RTS deter you.  It's not 'twitch' gaming.  I can't keep up with that either.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on March 31, 2013, 06:13:52 PM
I hate you sandman.......I just pulled the trigger on the pre-order based on your description:)  Don't let me down man!
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 06:27:53 PM
^Send him the receipt :)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on March 31, 2013, 07:47:31 PM
I'm not a betting man by nature, but I feel good about this one.  It won't be a let down.  Or if it is, I will have lost all my faith in pc gaming and retire from the pastime to take up backgammon and pinochle.  ... believe me when i say i don't want that to happen.

I guess I think of it this way.  If CoH2 is only 'as good as' the the original without really improving on things in any dramatic way, it will still be a great game.  From what i've seen in the dev diaries though, it looks better than the original.  It should be a blast.

...and man do I hope the KV-2 is in there. 



Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on March 31, 2013, 07:52:07 PM
Guys rant and rave about this KV-2...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on March 31, 2013, 08:00:49 PM
I am really hoping it turns out well...I guess I will start to know on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Greybriar on March 31, 2013, 10:16:04 PM
It's always scary for me when the rights to a game I want to play has been purchased by another company. I hope the next rendition of Company of Heroes is as good as THQ's original.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Arctic Blast on April 01, 2013, 12:06:32 AM
Quote from: Greybriar on March 31, 2013, 10:16:04 PM
It's always scary for me when the rights to a game I want to play has been purchased by another company. I hope the next rendition of Company of Heroes is as good as THQ's original.

Eh, it's still being developed by Relic so I'm not worried in the least.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Swatter on April 01, 2013, 02:48:24 AM
Watching the developers diary, I am disappointed. First off, I really liked the original CoH alot- at first. Battles between infantry forces were fun, if somewhat unrealistic. As I played more and tanks and other units were being introduced, I found the unrealism sky rocket. They really landed on the gamey side of things. Not that I thought they would change direction towards a less gamey type of combat, I just think they are focused on shallow features. The LOS system is screwy, at least at first blush. I don't have a problem with unseen units being unvisible- but blacking out the map? That is silly. It also looks like they went crazy overboard with the weather too. The harsh Russian winter caused attrition on a longer time scale than mere firefights or 10 minute battles. It looked like troops had to find a heat source during the battle. That is stupid silly, they are on planet Earth, not the harsh cold of Skyrim with a hardcore mod. Not only that, I would bet that anything smaller than a true river would probably have frozen solid or close to it, not becoming death traps under artillery fire. I have read many books on the Russian front and cannot recall an account of artillery being used to break up icey rivers or streams.

I would not have bought the game anyway, not unless they had some really innovative features. Alas, the features I have seen would only make the game even more gamey and create an even more unrealitic caricature of the Russian front than they did in Normandy. I love the setting, but the game is probably in DOA in my mind.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on April 01, 2013, 04:37:29 AM
Quote from: Greybriar on March 31, 2013, 10:16:04 PM
It's always scary for me when the rights to a game I want to play has been purchased by another company. I hope the next rendition of Company of Heroes is as good as THQ's original.

I am guessing a majority of the game was already completed before the transition since they were s far along.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Greybriar on April 01, 2013, 06:02:32 AM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on April 01, 2013, 12:06:32 AM
Quote from: Greybriar on March 31, 2013, 10:16:04 PM
It's always scary for me when the rights to a game I want to play has been purchased by another company. I hope the next rendition of Company of Heroes is as good as THQ's original.

Eh, it's still being developed by Relic so I'm not worried in the least.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on April 01, 2013, 04:37:29 AM

I am guessing a majority of the game was already completed before the transition since they were s far along.

Powerhouse (http://www.mobygames.com/game/win3x/powerhouse) was a game by Impressions that was released after Impressions was bought out by Sierra Entertainment. It was released too early, unfinished and full of bugs. I've been leery ever since.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: undercovergeek on April 01, 2013, 06:47:29 AM
Quote from: Swatter on April 01, 2013, 02:48:24 AM
Watching the developers diary, I am disappointed. First off, I really liked the original CoH alot- at first. Battles between infantry forces were fun, if somewhat unrealistic. As I played more and tanks and other units were being introduced, I found the unrealism sky rocket.

this bit

loved COH, but for its infantry battles, i could suspend belief and play it as the game it was but as soon as tanks became involved i lost all interest. A Tiger and a Sherman stood 10 feet apart blasting away at each other doesnt do it for me, i jumped on the first infantry only mod i could find. And as a big ass part of the Eastern Front is the thanks, and as a big ass part of the game is shooting only what you can see on screen (no long range, off screen shots) i see only more of the blasting each other at point blank range happening

From the recent gameplay vids ive seen, to me, and ill admit it may be just me, its COH with snow

pass
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on April 01, 2013, 09:34:31 AM
Quote from: Swatter on April 01, 2013, 02:48:24 AM
It also looks like they went crazy overboard with the weather too. The harsh Russian winter caused attrition on a longer time scale than mere firefights or 10 minute battles. It looked like troops had to find a heat source during the battle. That is stupid silly, they are on planet Earth, not the harsh cold of Skyrim with a hardcore mod.

The new "cold tech" thing raises a red flag (no pun intended) for me as well.  I agree that the idea that soldiers have to find shelter and warmth within minutes or die is fairly silly.  Russia is cold, but it's not Hoth. 

Still, it's hard to judge from the videos just how much cold will be a factor.  It sounds like in blizzard conditions it is a factor, but otherwise I'm not sure it will dictate gameplay too severely?  All speculation on my part of course.

That said, if 'cold tech' winds up being a sore spot for players, I have absolutely no doubt that it will quickly be modded, either nerfed or removed entirely.  I suppose it could be hardcoded and un-moddable, but I'm going to give the dev's the benefit of the doubt and guess that it is moddable.  It would be dumb to introduce a mechanic that's sure to be controversial that simply can't be altered by the gaming community.  The chorus of "game breaking!" would be overwhelming.  I don't think Relic is unaware of that.

Anyway, I remain very optimistic.  I can't argue with those who say CoH is unrealistic.  It is.  But if I want more groggy ww2 rts I'll go play Achtung Panzer or Combat Mission.  CoH is Hollywood WW2.  But it isn't dumbed down per se.  It's like the difference between "Saving Private Ryan" and "Patton" (the latter being one of my favorite war movies of all time, so not to knock it).  "SPR" introduced a fidelity to historical detail that was unprecedented in WW2 movies.  In "Patton" you have M60's standing in for panzers. Talk about having to suspend your disbelief.  But CoH follows "SPR's" lead in paying attention to the details, while still presenting a version of combat that is flashy and not terribly realistic.  It's still incredibly gripping to watch though, imo. 
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on April 01, 2013, 06:37:07 PM
Well, at this point I am all in thanks to Sandman!  So I have to keep the faith this will be good.  I guess I'll know in 24 hours or so after trying the beta....although if the download is huge, might not be until Wednesday because of my slow connection.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on April 01, 2013, 09:52:50 PM

man, i'm not going to be able to show my face around here anymore if this game bombs...

...seriously though, it's gonna rock
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on April 02, 2013, 04:39:08 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 01, 2013, 09:52:50 PM

man, i'm not going to be able to show my face around here anymore if this game bombs...

...seriously though, it's gonna rock

At least you will have to June until the game officially comes out since you can claim any current issues are just beta issues:)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: DeathTouchWilly on April 02, 2013, 03:04:37 PM
I'm pretty excited as well. Frankly I haven't been following the game that closely but it would be a tall order to screw up a game as good as CoH. Thanks for the heads up about the beta... I'll have to check it out.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on April 02, 2013, 05:28:45 PM
Although I know this is a closed beta, kind of strange how this can be enforced when released to such a large audience.  Over at their forums, seems like a lot of threats for removing people from the beta and possible legal actions if the game is discussed anywhere outside of their official beta forums, which don't appear to be open yet.  Good luck to them in trying to contain all the people, can't see it happening.  To the best of my knowledge, I did not sign any kind of NDA with them, so somehow must be implied by simply making the pre-order and downloading the beta.

Strange...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on April 02, 2013, 05:45:24 PM
From what I have now read, seems like you agree to the beta NDA when you first start the game...mine is still downloading so that is why I didn't see it.  I still wonder how they think they'll control all the talk across all web forums....but oh well, it is what it is.....guess I can't publically scold the Sandman about my purchase since it would give away if I thought the game was good or not:)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: DeathTouchWilly on April 03, 2013, 07:44:55 AM
Non-disclosure is a silly policy for a wide-run closed beta. If you want to keep a lid on things don't publicize the way you did and you better sure as hell vet your testers first. Isn't a part of the point of a beta to have fans spread the word for you? Coming from PR it's every marketer's wet dream to have your customers do all your work for you...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on April 03, 2013, 11:24:28 AM
Unless the feedback is less than positive ...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 15, 2013, 03:46:06 PM
Just curious, has anybody been actively playing this throughout the beta?  Liking it?  I had it and tried it several times.....as I feared, struggling to get into it.  Actually thinking of returning it while still in pre order status.  Just so fast and hectic for me.  Paying $60 and having it be shelf-ware is not ideal to me.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 15, 2013, 04:31:50 PM
I pre-ordered it but have not tried the beta. You should have used Green Man Gaming and you would have got it for 45.00!
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 15, 2013, 04:34:29 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 15, 2013, 04:31:50 PM
I pre-ordered it but have not tried the beta. You should have used Green Man Gaming and you would have got it for 45.00!

Not sure it would have been even worth $45 to me based on what I have seen so far:(
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 15, 2013, 07:36:19 PM
What?? Oh dear. Please elaborate!
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 15, 2013, 07:47:32 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 15, 2013, 07:36:19 PM
What?? Oh dear. Please elaborate!

Sorry didn't meant to give people a heart attack:)  I just mean for my personal tastes, I can not keep up with the speed of this game where I find it impossible to control all my troops across the map.  Likely just me.  I am sure people who enjoyed prior versions and were good at it would find this enjoyable.  It really does look graphically nice and I wish I could comprehend it.  I had the same issue with prior versions so no big surprise.  Pretty sure I will be seeking a refund and maybe pick it up later during the xmas sale when only a few bucks:)

Maybe with my money back I will pick up Kerbals and DW: Shadows...and I would still have $30 to spare:)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 15, 2013, 07:58:09 PM
Crap.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 15, 2013, 08:06:57 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 15, 2013, 07:58:09 PM
Crap.

If you played the prior versions and liked them, I think you would also like this too.....I was never able to enjoy the other versions either.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 15, 2013, 08:10:31 PM
I haven't. I wanted to before trying out the new game just didn't have the time. I have them loaded on my machine right now. Well at least it is still an Eastern Front game...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 15, 2013, 08:22:49 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 15, 2013, 08:10:31 PM
I haven't. I wanted to before trying out the new game just didn't have the time. I have them loaded on my machine right now. Well at least it is still an Eastern Front game...

One thing I do really not like about the game is the fact how close the enemy soldiers get with each other without killing each other.  A lot of times they are footsteps away, blasting machine guns without hitting anything.  I have enemy troops running up to my tanks and standing next to them exchanging gun fire.

I think people that enjoy RTS and not looking for a lot of historical accuracy would enjoy....I don't think it ever pretended to be anything else.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 16, 2013, 07:24:08 PM
I did decide to submit for a refund, never have done before on a steam game so hopefully they grant it.  I have read they do it for pre-orders so I am thinking I should be good.

Just didn't turn out to be something I liked.....maybe in a future sale I will try again.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 16, 2013, 07:54:41 PM
I would not be happy if I wanted to get a refund to a preorder and did not get it.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 16, 2013, 08:05:27 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 16, 2013, 07:54:41 PM
I would not be happy if I wanted to get a refund to a preorder and did not get it.

Me too:)  But from what I have read, seems like it should go through without an issue.....we'll see.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 17, 2013, 04:19:24 AM
Happy to report that steam agreed to refund without any issues.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 17, 2013, 07:24:17 AM
Cool. I am hoping you made a mistake and wind up buying it again :)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: son_of_montfort on June 17, 2013, 08:58:24 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 17, 2013, 04:19:24 AM
Happy to report that steam agreed to refund without any issues.

Steam usually refunds preorders, but it absolutely won't refund post-release orders without some sort of major reasoning.

I played the Beta again last night and I am starting to like it pretty well. Only two problems. First, I am complete crap at playing the game. I mean totally terrible. I'll roll out a German scout wagon and suddenly the Soviets will pull up with two heavily armored vehicles. Yeah, that's not going to fly. Second, like Reaper said, sometimes you get "dancing units" where they get way to close to fire at one another. I've had tanks battling at point blank range, which just looks weird. Mostly this has to do with me only playing on smaller maps, it would be less of a problem in larger maps.

I think it will be a worthy successor. Clearly they are gearing this for the MP crowd and it has a Battlefield like progression and customization aspect to it. They did open up one of the campaign missions, and I have to say that they are pretty cool and cinematic.

One thing I need to do is learn the hotkeys. Holy cow, that might help.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 17, 2013, 01:24:17 PM
Sucking at something has never stopped me from carrying on with it! (Insert Gus joke here)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Bison on June 17, 2013, 01:36:10 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 17, 2013, 01:24:17 PM
Sucking at something has never stopped me from carrying on with it! (Insert Gus joke here)

OMG STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where to begin...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 17, 2013, 02:18:06 PM
Don't you have a cream soda or something to drink?
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Bison on June 17, 2013, 04:04:28 PM
Water.  No iced.  Neither shaken nor stirred.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 17, 2013, 06:34:06 PM
That's what I thought.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 17, 2013, 07:09:50 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 17, 2013, 07:24:17 AM
Cool. I am hoping you made a mistake and wind up buying it again :)

I wouldn't rule it out at some point, but likely will be playing it for under $10 in some future sale:). No regrets returning it but I do hope it turns out well for those that can enjoy it.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: eyebiter on June 18, 2013, 07:22:50 AM
Tried the multiplayer on Steam last week.  German side seems to be more difficult, since it takes time to research armor buildings.  Had good luck with a MG42 heavy defense inside structures, while other units cap victory points.  Build a few mortars and engineers with flame throwers to take out light vehicles.. Then research AT gun structure and prepare for the first wave of T-34 tanks. 

With the Soviets found it much easier.  There is one commander that allows 120mm mortar spam every minute.  Build conscripts to cap victory points while getting ready for tanks.  Once the T34 appears you will be able to advance rapidly just keep aware of German AT guns.  Bit of micromanagement required to have engineers repair vehicles when damaged rather than fight until destroyed.

Blizzard can be an opportunity to infiltrate enemy areas. Use a half track to bring transport troops to cap resource nodes or recover enemy hardware. If you find unattended AT gun, HMG, or mortar then capture it.. PITA to have a previously secure area suddenly light up with enemy infantry attacks.  Without a mobile reserve often the enemy will have captured the point and moved on by the time your infantry get there. 
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 21, 2013, 01:49:55 PM
Rock Paper Shotgun likes it verily, except for the menu screen:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/21/wot-i-think-company-of-heroes-2-single-player/#more-157162
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 21, 2013, 05:47:13 PM
"Company of Heroes 2 is a deceptively noisy and violent game that is actually designed for those with slow hands, quick wits and flexible thought processes."

Encouraging review -- especially the bolded part, for someone with slowly deteriorating RTS reflexes like myself...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 21, 2013, 10:07:16 PM
^Yeah that's one of the points I first noticed...sounds pretty damned good.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 21, 2013, 11:49:26 PM
The $60 price-tag makes me choke a bit...  But I guess this is the 'new normal' for the AAA titles.  Dropping $120 on this and Rome 2 -- as seems inevitable -- ...that ain't cheap.

Still, there's just no way I can't not buy CoH2 on Day 1.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 22, 2013, 06:02:52 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on June 21, 2013, 05:47:13 PM
"Company of Heroes 2 is a deceptively noisy and violent game that is actually designed for those with slow hands, quick wits and flexible thought processes."

Encouraging review -- especially the bolded part, for someone with slowly deteriorating RTS reflexes like myself...

I would love to know what they meant by slow hand......where they trying to imply the game had a slower more controlled feel?  It could be just me, but when playing the beta still seemed very fast and chaotic.  Looking at threads in other forums where people played it, the comments were pretty consistent of it being fast.  But maybe I am just misunderstanding what is meant by the quote.  Either way, I think if you were a fan of the prior games in the series, you'll for sure like it. 

As mentioned before, possibly for the right price during a future sale, I'll pick it up again...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 22, 2013, 11:11:49 AM
Sandman: get both Rome II and CoH II at Green Man Gaming for 25% off (45.00) with pre-order voucher codes. I admit that 45.00 still aint so great but its better than 60.00 (25% better :))
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 22, 2013, 07:55:46 PM
Thanks for the heads-up -- I've actually never bought from Green Man Gaming before.  I'll take it on the strength of your recommendation that it's a reputable outfit.  8)   Although I seem to have missed some discount b/c Rome2 and CoH2 are still showing up for $59.99 a piece --
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 22, 2013, 08:22:05 PM
I bought both Rome II and CoH II from them, they provide you with a Steam key. You need to get the pre-purchase voucher code...scroll down on the main landing page.   
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 22, 2013, 08:34:29 PM
Ah -- K.  I see the 20% Off code.  (Maybe 25% off was a 'limited time offer'?) -- no matter.  $48 for CoH2 is better than $60 any day of the week.

There are some nice deals under this weekend's "War Deals" promo.  Anyone interested in Theatre of War 2 -- IMO an underrated series -- should check these out.  I"m seriously tempted by Iron Front Liberation '44 at $6.79, although I understand the single-player is lack-luster, and I'm not really an online player --
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 22, 2013, 08:43:00 PM
^Cool glad you found it.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 24, 2013, 07:09:07 PM
Pre-loading now...anyone else?
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 24, 2013, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 24, 2013, 07:09:07 PM
Pre-loading now...anyone else?

I look forward to your impressions of it once you get it to see how it compares to mine.....here is a mini-review from Quarter to Three that is less than favorable....

http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2013/06/24/company-of-heroes-2-is-a-real-snow-job/
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 24, 2013, 08:28:58 PM
Less than favorable indeed!

"Company of Heroes 2 might be the steepest tumble from game design genius to crassly missing the point that I've ever seen."

Yikes.  That's rather worrying.  One positive review, one very negative review (1 Star!).

Folks that have played the Beta -- what are your reactions to Quarter to Three's assessment?
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 24, 2013, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on June 24, 2013, 08:28:58 PM
Less than favorable indeed!

"Company of Heroes 2 might be the steepest tumble from game design genius to crassly missing the point that I've ever seen."

Yikes.  That's rather worrying.  One positive review, one very negative review (1 Star!).

Folks that have played the Beta -- what are your reactions to Quarter to Three's assessment?

I already made my voice known, largely from the fact the pace is still too hectic for me, but the review doesn't mention that.  I do agree with a couple things.

1)  I was not an expert in version 1, but from what I remember, it seemed roughly the same, except in the east.  I am sure there are subtle differences, but game had the same feel.

2)  Snow and Fires - I agree 100% on this item....why in the world do I want to micro manage my soldiers to the degree I have to move them to houses/fire during snow storms?  Sure it is logical if in the real world, but in a game that already is hectic and demands a lot of attention, why would I think this is fun too manage?
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: son_of_montfort on June 24, 2013, 10:26:08 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 24, 2013, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 24, 2013, 07:09:07 PM
Pre-loading now...anyone else?

I look forward to your impressions of it once you get it to see how it compares to mine.....here is a mini-review from Quarter to Three that is less than favorable....

http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2013/06/24/company-of-heroes-2-is-a-real-snow-job/

Tom Chick also panned Distant Worlds and is a well known gaming curmudgeon. I trust his reviews as much as I trust Gus's assessment of being tall.  ;)

RPS was much more positive about CoH2. I'm skeptical that Tom Chick played enough to actually review this (unless he is reviewing from Beta, which is usually a no-no). No other news outlet has released a review, as far as I can see, so it would be odd for Chick to "get the scoop."

I am biased, however, I once had a shouting match with Chick and found him to be vulgar, acerbic, overly-critical, and not particularly civil.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: son_of_montfort on June 24, 2013, 10:32:30 PM
I misspoke. Kotaku had a much more balanced review and they found CoH2 to be "more of the same, but that is a good thing." They were disappointed in the solo play missions, however, which featured a bit too much bad writing. Still, they give it a "Yes, you should play this game" rating.

http://kotaku.com/company-of-heroes-2-the-kotaku-review-552317781
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 25, 2013, 07:50:46 AM
My assessment of being tall is that it must be better than not being tall.

Last night half way through my preload my power went out and stayed out for two hours...delaying me diving in to this. This morning after getitng power back I downloaded the rest of it.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 25, 2013, 11:03:41 AM
Thanks for putting the Quarter to Three review in perspective.  As someone who regards the original CoH as easily one of the most fun and engrossing games I've ever played (and played the hell out of), I very much want to believe CoH2 will be a worthy successor.  But it's a high bar to clear.  I suppose it's bound to disappoint in some respects.  I do agree with Chick's assessment of how well original CoH holds up today.  It is still a fantastic game, especially modded.

The thing about blizzards and fires -- I have to believe this will be one of the first things modded out (assuming it can be modded out... I hope Relic wasn't stupid enough to make this non-moddable).  Having to light campfires in the middle of combat is just idiotic on every level.  There is nothing about CoH that encourages an "all quiet on the front -- let's hunker down and wait things out" style of play.  The gameplay is always fast-paced, sometimes relentlessly so.  The idea that soldiers are going to have time to light fires -- just dumb, dumb, dumb.  It's hard to fathom why this idea ever got past the initial brainstorming phase.  "Hey, what if soldiers have to light fires to keep warm!"  "No, um, that's a terrible idea."  That's how the conversation should have proceeded.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Jarhead0331 on June 25, 2013, 11:20:10 AM
^The funny thing is, you do not even need to be a combat veteran to know that this is completely implausible and unrealistic.  In an effort to add some authenticity to the game by including weather effects on a battlefield that was known for harsh climate, they managed to destroy their good intentions by including a completely unauthentic gimmick.  Bad decision, indeed.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Tinkershuffle on June 25, 2013, 01:25:46 PM
I used to love CoH. In fact CoH was the game that made my medieval/fantasy enthusiasm turn into WW2 enthusiasm. But I think the magic is gone what comes to the sequal. Basically not much have changed compared to the first one but that's the problem. Games like APOS and W:ALB have set new standards to historical RTS gaming. That's why recon vehicles that can push infantry out of cover, a camera view that allows you to see two trees and a house at a time, and tanks that are shooting each other 5 meters apart without a kill shot don't do the trick anymore. I'm sure I'll buy the game at some point when it hits the sales but 50€ is just too much at the moment considering what novelties it has (not) to offer.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 25, 2013, 07:56:12 PM
Finished the first campaign mission. It's intense but there is room for some thought...the game makes you think. If you blindly throw your troops into fire you will lose everyone. Some of the audio cues do get a little repetitive.

Mind you I have not really gamed WWII in the modern PC era, so a lot of what some grogs may see as gimmicky I thought was great. There are many other units besides your own fighting around you for the same objectives, lending that 'part of a bigger picture' feel. Men that are hit scream in pain, some panic and run...without giving away too much there is a scene of commissars at work. It is clear to me that the Eastern Front was researched as it should have been for this. The things I saw and took part in felt authentic.

This first mission was for the railroad station in Stalingrad and was broken down into three objectives. I got to use infantry tactics, grenades, smoke and captured German artillery. Stalingrad exploded all around me. And I loved every minute of it.

That said it...it does not appear that the campaign is in chronological order. This first mission was in September 1942 while the next one will be set in September 1941. It seems to be based on one man's life, so hopefully things will become clearer as I advance. But I will definitely be coming back...CoH II may be my entry point game for modern WWII PC gaming.

And for reference I am going to pick these titles to expand my background...I have been waiting to buy these two books until the release of CoH 2 today:

http://www.amazon.com/Ostkrieg-Hitlers-War-Extermination-East/dp/0813134161/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372207996&sr=1-1&keywords=ostkrieg+hitler%27s+war+of+extermination+in+the+east

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1849087903/ref=gno_cart_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Overall I am impressed, even if I am pretty much a newb in the WWII genre. Looking forward to the next mission.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 25, 2013, 08:09:42 PM
Glad your enjoying Gus, your a better man than me with this game:)  Still could end up picking up during xmas sale, we'll see...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 25, 2013, 08:18:10 PM
I may be biased because of my limited exposure to more modern WWII PC games...but I do think CoH 2 has a lot to offer all of us.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: son_of_montfort on June 25, 2013, 08:19:47 PM
My problem is that I suck at it (so far). I was really kicking ass in the first Theater of War campaign, when suddenly the Russians pull in with some tanks and basically mash my base. I did not even see the option for me to build tanks, so I guess they want me to pull it off with no anti-armor! Better invest in some mortar squads!
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 25, 2013, 08:22:32 PM
Is Theater of War like the tutorial campaign? Skirmish? Neither? Both?

I really didn't know what I was doing when I started but I just decided to relax and let the Eastern Front pour into me :)

Playing on ''Captian" [normal] difficulty, btw.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 25, 2013, 09:22:21 PM
So I am a complete sucker and bought the absurdly priced $99 "Digital Collector's Edition"...  Just... could not... resist....

So far I've only fiddled around with some skirmishes and the basic tutorial battle.  Initial impressions are certainly positive.  Gameplay, interface, commands are indeed very close if not identical to the original CoH.  For me that's a good thing.

The battles are mayhem though, just as the original was.  Still, I like it.  I know it's not 'realistic' to say the least.  But for slower pace and more realism, there's always Achtung Panzer Op Star or Combat Mission.  This is definitely Hollywood-ized 'Saving Private Ryan' style combat. And it's fun.


EDIT -- Anyone else getting CTDs?  I've now had 2 crashes -- just happens mid-battle (on Skirmish).  A little worrying.  I don't think I ever had a single CTD with CoH, with God knows how many hours of play.  Game was a solid as a rock.  Hmmm...
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 26, 2013, 06:57:09 AM
No I didn't have any CTDs. Where are the tutorials? I just jumped right into the campaign.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: W8taminute on June 26, 2013, 08:26:29 AM
Thanks for the feedback Gus.  Those books you picked out for researching the time period seem good.  I might have to get those also!

For some reason though I'm still on the fence with this game.  I enjoyed the CoH series and always wanted an Eastern Front version of it.  Now that it is finally here I'm skeptical.   :-\
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 26, 2013, 08:58:48 AM
Quote from: Gusington on June 26, 2013, 06:57:09 AM
No I didn't have any CTDs. Where are the tutorials? I just jumped right into the campaign.

There's a fairly pointless "tutorial battle" that you can play -- I think if you go to the "Tactics" subscreen?  Where the video tutorials are.  No need to play through it though.  It's just like a 10 minute walk through in which little of use is actually presented.

These CTDs really have me down.  No idea what is causing them.  Appears other folks on the Steam forums are having similar problems. Kinda sucks to have just dropped $100 on a game that is this unstable.  (...still asking myself why I had to buy the more expensive version!)
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 26, 2013, 09:51:09 AM
Driver issue?
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 26, 2013, 10:17:55 AM
I doubt it.  I've read stuff on the forums about needing to update Windows, etc.  But my Windows is completely up to date, and I'm using a recent Nvidia driver (not the most current, but the one right before that -- I can't imagine that the only way to play CoH2 is to have the very latest Nvidia driver installed -- and I hate installing a new driver - with all the other headaches that can lead to - when the current one seems to work fine for everything else.)

Seems a lot of the folks getting crashes are AMD / Radeon users.  I have an i7 and GTX 680, so no luck there.  I wonder if maybe some weird graphics setting is screwing things up.  Will have to tweak with those a bit later tonight.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 26, 2013, 12:53:43 PM
That is quite the pain in the keister, I agree. I also got a message that W7 had to be updated but I ignored it.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: son_of_montfort on June 26, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
No CTDs with my nVidia card. So the only crashes, thus far, are my tactical abilities. I seriously suck at this game! I have yet to pull out a win against the Russian AI in the Crimea Theater of War battle. I tried rushing to Stug's before they sent tanks at me, to go and hammer their base, but I failed miserably.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: sandman2575 on June 26, 2013, 11:17:36 PM
Crashes are still periodic for me -- although I did just manage to play a tactical battle -- fairly long one -- with no crashes (hooray) -- and also tried out the Crimea Theater of War scenario -- also got through it with no ctds -- not sure if it's progress or luck, but i'll take it.

I really like the Theater of War concept.  It's definitely something new over the original CoH.  I'm a coward though and played Crimea on Easy.  I didn't find it terribly easy!  Although I did win.  I have a feeling I would not have won on Normal.  The game is fast-paced and relentless, but then, so was the original.

...is it just me, or do the vehicles have a somewhat more 'cartoony' look to them than original CoH?  Can't quite put my finger on it -- but something about the vehicles feels off -- somehow inauthentic, in a way they never did in original CoH.  I've been playing on pretty high graphics settings, so I don't think that's what's causing the impression. 

On the plus side, the sound effects are fantastic.  They were in the original too, but there's a lot of very pleasing 'oomph' behind those tank rounds.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Jarhead0331 on June 27, 2013, 06:03:57 AM
I really hate, and am very destracted by the arm patch on German soldiers. It is ridiculous beyond belief, and makes me feel like I'm fighting the evil forces of Cobra, rather than the wehrmacht.  I get it, they didn't want to use the swastika. Ok. But this stupid thing? Nevermind the fact that german soldiers didn't rush into battle wearing a big red swastika on their arm anyway.

Aside from this niggling detail, I am moderately enjoying the campaign. Don't kid yourself though. Other than the general idea that it was cold, that the russians had infinite manpower that wasa casually tossed into the meat grinder, and that the germans were the invaders, there is nothing authentic about this game.
Title: Re: Company of Heroes 2: Closed Beta Starts April 2nd for Pre-Orders
Post by: Gusington on June 27, 2013, 07:04:20 AM
I noticed that patch too, my guess is that someone will mod it out. The balance between fun and realsm is working for me so far.