I know there are multiple threads on Dominions but I wanted to start one where the community could discuss the gameplay instead of the sale or how good it is. I know many here and at the Wargamer (same crowd mostly) just picked it up including me.
I started my first game in the middle age as a human race. 5 other AI on a 96 Provence Aran map. I set the other AIs to easy as it is my first game.
Ok, so my first question is: other than supply restrictions, is there a reason why I shouldn't use all of my resources each turn buying troops?? I have about 4000 gold and over about 250 resources per turn in my main province. I have two small armies and there doesn't seem to be any reason why I shouldn't recruit all sorts of powerful troops as nauseous...is there a "maintenance cost". My supply level is 345 and my use is at 25 so I have no issue there.
there is upkeep. resources do not accrue so use them or lose them. the tutorial even tells you to buy troops every turn. my only issues so far are the magic spells. just so many and i have no idea what kind of combos to make. the tutorial once again gives a 3 spell combo as an example but after that i am lost!
Ok, is there some place where I can see what my "upkeep" cost is?
Also, if anyone knows, how do in cast those world spells...the ones that affect other players outside of battle? Are they learned like others?
top right corner is a box that shows your name, how many of each gem you have etc.. also has upkeep cost. any of your heroes that use magic can cast spells as long as they are the correct level and have the gems if a spell requires any. when you look at the boxes on the left of your screen each one at the very bottom should say research, defend etc... just click on that word and will give you many other options for that hero. one of those options is cast ritual spell. as far as i know those have to be researched just like any of the others.
Ok, thanks
Just a reminder, the Grogheads Middle Age Dom3 game is still open for players: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5408.0
Spells are researched in categories roughly approximating their use in game. A "ritual" is any spell at all that isn't cast during battle, so it isn't a specific category. Global spells (affecting the whole world) are only one kind of "ritual", and they aren't all in one category either.
You can see what spells are theoretically available, by going to magic, then research, then clicking on the name of the particular school: all spells which fall under that school will be listed, and if they're already available (thanks to research or if no research is needed) they'll be fully colored in. The skill of the mage in various schools of magic (water, air, blood, etc.) will be shown on the right. The in-game description of the spell will be given if the spell itself is clicked on.
I have this game but haven't tried it yet. From what I've been reading am I right that there is no diplomacy in single player games? You are always at war with everyone else?
Great idea for a thread. Was thinking of starting one myself. I will contribute later as I have some ideas to share with you all but first...
Does anyone know how to take a screenshot in Dominions 3? I tried searching the hotkey list by pressing 'g' in game but nothing there. I also tried 'Print Screen' key but that didn't work either, unless I did something wrong.
Yes, there is no in-game diplomacy single-player.
Not really in multiplayer either, although we can gift each other things. (That's true for single-player, too.) This makes diplomacy in mp... careful. :)
Of course, human players might decide on their own initiative to form a shared victory alliance, with each declaring both to be joint-winners once everyone outside the alliance has been dealt with. But the game engine doesn't recognize such things at all. Leading to the occasional peace-fracturing mishap.
W8, drop a line to Undergeek and ask him how he's snapshotting the screens for the AAR he's doing down in the Digital AAR section. (He's playing against me and several other Grogs in that game. Let me know if he's winning yet, btw. ;D ) I should have thought PrintScreen would do the trick; but you may have to play it in a window and use a drag-snap tool of some sort.
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 04, 2013, 12:32:41 PM
...
W8, drop a line to Undergeek and ask him how he's snapshotting the screens for the AAR he's doing down in the Digital AAR section. (He's playing against me and several other Grogs in that game. Let me know if he's winning yet, btw. ;D ) I should have thought PrintScreen would do the trick; but you may have to play it in a window and use a drag-snap tool of some sort.
I think you're right. I'll have to drop into windowed mode and use the Snipping Tool. Will give this a try tonight!
Geek uses Fraps.
Is construction magic worth it? My god has 4 in earth magic so he can craft some good stuff but how well does that work. IDE hate to send in my infantry wearing magical plate armor just so some Mage can turn them into sausage
Well, you should know that you can't craft stuff for your basic troops. Only those units that have inventory slots on their info pages can equip items. As for whether it's worth it, I'll leave that to the experts, but the couple of AARs I've read featured crafted items prominently.
Yeah, it would be for my sacred Avalon knights. Thanks
Next stupid question:
Does terrain factor into combat? For example, if I am defending in a mountain province with soldiers who are "mountain survivors", do I get a bonus? What about river crossings? I ask because on one of the "lets play" videos, Das referenced a river and said "that's a tough barrier... No one is crossing that without a big fight".
Quote from: mikeck on April 04, 2013, 03:50:21 PM
Yeah, it would be for my sacred Avalon knights. Thanks
yup - i use fraps, dead easy and then imageshack to host the pics - also dead easy
Martok - as long as your knights are commanders or special troops youre good - run of the mill fodder - no matter how sexy the name or how much they cost wont be able to be buffed up
All spells have awesome power, but also a counter to it - a sure fire(!) way to beat the AI is to go for flaming arrows, in MP - youd get away with it a few times til someone cast rain, or storm. Super dooper armoured troops are great until you run into sooper dooper troops with armour ignoring weapons, or a mage casting spells that smash your armour to bits - dont wear armour? cast protection, or wooden warriors, or marble warriors, or barkskin - until some one comes and sets you on fire for been made out of wood - and were back to fire again - the AI probably wont respond to your awesome things - a human will
Quote from: mikeck on April 04, 2013, 05:11:15 PM
Next stupid question:
Does terrain factor into combat? For example, if I am defending in a mountain province with soldiers who are "mountain survivors", do I get a bonus? What about river crossings? I ask because on one of the "lets play" videos, Das referenced a river and said "that's a tough barrier... No one is crossing that without a big fight".
to the best of my knowledge - no. it effects the income of the province, it determines the kind of fort and therefore its cost and defensive value that can be built there, and it effects magic site probability and movement - but in general fighting in mountains will not incur a bonus or a penalty on the attacker/defender
the barrier the river may have caused is the fact its uncrossable - and you have to go round the river and fight your way to your intended target
Some rivers on maps are uncrossable (except by flying units and/or magic) by the expedient of the provinces across from each other simply not being linked. No way to tell until you're in the game and right click on a river province to see if arrows reach across it (assuming the "neighbors" map filter is on). Same is true for mountain art and a few other things.
Portals (and mundane ports for that matter, and tunnels) link distant provinces to one another as "neighbors". A good map designer will show hints about this on his map. The random map in-game generator will do this, too, I think.
Anyway, the terrain doesn't affect troop combat, unless the terrain is underwater. I have however seen a minor effect based on tactical battle maps linked to hilly terrain types when the attackers start downhill -- although I can't tell yet if that effect is only imaginary on my part. (Were the troops really having trouble shooting up hill and the other guys had better range thereby? Or was that due to other factors?)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 04, 2013, 03:35:49 PM
Well, you should know that you can't craft stuff for your basic troops. Only those units that have inventory slots on their info pages can equip items. As for whether it's worth it, I'll leave that to the experts, but the couple of AARs I've read featured crafted items prominently.
Some items act like permanently active spells affecting non-commmander/non-hero troops, however. So in that sense you can craft items for basic troops.
Item crafting can be wildly exploited but it takes quite a bit of experience (or reading around the internet for experiences of others) and/or genius to figure out how to best combine items and inherent properties/weaknesses.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1336.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo648%2FW8taminute%2FDom3Main_zps4e005f25.jpg&hash=572b1c5192bc6ed48c45d46a35d428c9cbcac603)
Figure 1: Main world screen display
1. Nation summary (Your faction leader name, total treasury, total national income, total unit upkeep, magic stone inventory)
2. Province summary (further details to be furnished upon completion of guide)
3. List of leaders present in currently selected province
4. List of buildings present in currently selected province
I will be working on assembling more screenshots with detailed explanations. These images will contain basic information. The target audience is total newcomers to the game. Detailed theories and strategy suggestions are not my intention. The manual lacks a basic breakdown in simple language of what the meaning of the individual components are for each screen.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1336.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo648%2FW8taminute%2FNationOverview_zps6aae86d9.jpg&hash=b549c946c2981257c1ae96d8720987bef0456f41)
Figure 2: Nation Overview textbox (item 1 of Figure 1)
1. Your leaders name. Click on name to center map on his current location
2. Total gold in national treasury and total national income per turn in gold
3. Total cost in gold for unit upkeep per turn
4. List of magic stone items your nation posses. Hover mouse over any stone for details on how many you gain per turn.
5. Hover mouse over this icon to list the season and year of the current game turn.
Note that a popup textbox appears at the bottom of the main screen (see Figure 1) with the details of the item currently being hovered over. Some magic stone items will not show a quantity gained per turn. This means you are not collecting this stone type in any of your provinces.
What is the upkeep? Is that number the gold per turn or supply or what?
Also, if I have a commander that can sneak, can all the troops he command automatically do so as well or do I need to recruit troops with a sneak ability if I want to sneak a small raiding force behind the lines?
Upkeep is strictly gold per turn for all units owned. (I don't recall if that counts mercs; you may pay for their supply up front.)
Some troops use supply, some don't, and some give supply back; that's tracked on a province by province basis, and is listed in the summary window for each province as "supply usage". In the screenshot above, troops in the province are currently using 20 supplies per turn, out of a stock of currently around 232. Supply is re-supplied (so to speak) at a variable rate (based on a bunch of factors) every turn, but can be eventually used up or otherwise eliminated. After that, troops in the province will start suffering afflictions, hits to morale (I think), maybe desertion. They may also start battles with fatigue, or with higher encumbrance rates (not sure but seems likely).
One class of troop that doesn't use supply is the garrison. Every level of garrison requires gold equal to the level of garrison being arrived at, so 1 gold to bring it to level 1, then 2 gold, then 3, and so on additively. (Sometimes local governors or mayors will increase garrison by 10 randomly, too.) Garrison never goes away and will always be reset next turn assuming the province doesn't fall to the enemy: once they're paid for, they are a permanent fixture like a fortification.
As for sneaking, all units under command must be stealthy as well, or the commander moves normally and will attack rather than hiding. Making the units invisible might help with sneaking, or may only affect combat--my guess would be the former but I don't know for sure. (That a commander doesn't automatically confer sneak however is guidebook info.)
Quote from: mikeck on April 04, 2013, 03:31:57 PM
Is construction magic worth it? My god has 4 in earth magic so he can craft some good stuff but how well does that work. IDE hate to send in my infantry wearing magical plate armor just so some Mage can turn them into sausage
Construction magic is definitely worth it. I'm pretty sure most people learn it in order to create nice magic items to trick out some of their leader units into tailor-made killing machines that can murderize lots of stuff once fully equipped. It also helps with creating Research Point bonus items for your researchers and there's at least one item/enchantment that produces extra (green?) gems, which are all quite helpful.
More about upkeep: pretenders and prophets require no upkeep, nor do some other regular units, nor do most summoned units. They do however require supply (usually, unless they provide supply instead or have special abilities related to supply perhaps). Even many summoned units require supply.
Normal upkeep = purchase cost / 15. Sacred units are ascetic or more willing to work for your pretender and so cost purchase / 30 per turn. (But they also tend to cost a lot on the front end!)
Well I just got my ass kicked on easy level. While I was busy running around in all directions with small armies (didn't realize they were small), my enemy to the south built one huge army of giants and steamrolled me. Once I thought I stopped him, I was attacked from the other direction. By a smaller army of giants which ripped through my outposts.
I spent too much magic research on cool destruction spells that don't do much. I need to look more at buffing type spells
Giants, hah! -- what are they good for? Absolutely anything, huh, say it again!
Giants have some big weaknesses which can be offset with planning. I don't want to say much more than that because I'm having to deal with some giants in multiplayer and I'm hoping my opponent hasn't realized how he's crippled his giant faction, or that he hasn't adjusted for it sufficiently somehow. ;)
Still, losing to giants isn't a dishonorable way to go.
Jason my friend, it wouldn't have mattered what type of soldiers they were. I had 4 armies of about 55 guys spread out monkey-stomping the independents. His army (jutenheim...or something) numbered over 200. I thought my armies were "big"
200 giants is going to beat anything except (maybe) 400 archers early in the game: big, scary (which is important because an army only has to be annoyed out of fighting), soak damage, dish damage, move surprisingly fast on the field. A seriously systematic plan of tactical magic can overcome that, but most giant factions are no slouches in the magic department themselves.
But yeah, keeping a large army on reserve along your threat axis while you expand elsewhere is important. Once a killer stack (of any kind not only giants) is on the move, it takes too long to consolidate and they defeat you piecemeal.
(Also important: getting rid of giant factions before they become steamrollers early in the game. Or attacking giant factions when other factions have bloodied them down a bit, grabbing farmland, keeping their gold income down.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 05, 2013, 12:53:07 PM
(Also important: getting rid of giant factions before they become steamrollers early in the game. Or attacking giant factions when other factions have bloodied them down a bit, grabbing farmland, keeping their gold income down.)
Well, pick on the giants in our LA game instead of me then! I've spectacularly gimped myself in that game anyway!
I don't think it's a spoiler anymore than my first target in the EA game is Niefelheim since they're right next door. ;)
Also, being a slut for attention, I want to see myself in Under'geek's AAR as soon as possible.
LA Ermor is pretty dang recoverable if they're left alone long enough, so.... it's probably just as well for you that I'm busy elsewhere and not in contact with you anyway. ;D
(I look at gimping the Necrons as "giving everyone else a chance to win"... 8) )
Oi!!!
Good chance I got to watch a few of your last battles!
Bring it on
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 05, 2013, 01:00:17 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 05, 2013, 12:53:07 PM
(Also important: getting rid of giant factions before they become steamrollers early in the game. Or attacking giant factions when other factions have bloodied them down a bit, grabbing farmland, keeping their gold income down.)
Well, pick on the giants in our LA game instead of me then! I've spectacularly gimped myself in that game anyway!
Try being surrounded by multiple giant nations. :-\
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 05, 2013, 01:33:18 PM
Oi!!!
Good chance I got to watch a few of your last battles!
Bring it on
Hey, if I say I'd put my money on you, that means I'm either going to ally with you fast or target you first. :)
If I win, I win. If I lose... well, I don't win because I didn't actually bet any money, but I
would have won!
I'm going to try again with the Pythium MA.
Question. Fortresses: is there a reason to build besides pulling resources in from neighboring provinces and allowing recruitment of national units? What I mean is, do they help spread dominion? Do they make it harder for enemies to pass through or sneak so that I should place them at choke points?
yes - place them at chokes - a enemy needs to take the fort to take the province and some nations excel at fort defence
They don't spread dominion though; that's what temples are for.
Since national units are generally superior to independents, building a fortress in an area high in resources is a good idea anyway even if it isn't a choke point. (And many maps don't have "choke points" exactly.)
That will give you an extra place to spend your gold on buying national units. Some units are capitol only, of course, but only a few.
In addition to the aforementioned reasons, forts are oftentimes the only place you can recruit mages/forgers (unless you find a nice special site), so having multiple fortresses is often a key to keeping up with research and item production.
Quote from: mikeck on April 04, 2013, 05:11:15 PM
Does terrain factor into combat? For example, if I am defending in a mountain province with soldiers who are "mountain survivors", do I get a bonus? What about river crossings? I ask because on one of the "lets play" videos, Das referenced a river and said "that's a tough barrier... No one is crossing that without a big fight".
Swamp terrain effects combat. Unless the unit has Swamp Survival, they take an attack, defence and fatigue penalty (their actions result in more fatigue).
Otherwise, the main effect is not on combat, but strategic movement, which the relevant [terrain] survival ability can negate.
Underwater combat uses other rules, which I am not that familliar with, but I think someone has already covered that.
Quote from: Myrmidon on April 05, 2013, 08:36:14 PM
In addition to the aforementioned reasons, forts are oftentimes the only place you can recruit mages/forgers (unless you find a nice special site), so having multiple fortresses is often a key to keeping up with research and item production.
To expand on this, you'll want to keep an eye out for locations where you can recruit spellcasters that have schools(?) of magic which your nation doesn't start with (mainly for crafting magic items since they're mostly only rank 1).
Besides the initial cost of $200...is there any other reason not to spam temples?
None that I know of, except that according to some veterans I spoke to, that would get prohibitively expensive. I think you're supposed to be spending all your gold on recruitment.
Temple spamming is great, if you can afford it and have one or more spare priest units handy to do so.
Quote from: mikeck on April 06, 2013, 08:37:58 AM
Besides the initial cost of $200...is there any other reason not to spam temples?
Spam them? I don't think so. But placing them where they can push your Dominion outwards from the edge of your Dominion-controlled area can be helpful. Or at least shoring it up.
Here's a thread describing the benefits of temple spamming. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=31056
In addition to cumulative effects on dominion spread, it also increases the number of sacred troops that can be recruited for every 5 temples (which really is only important for certain factions)
Quote from: Myrmidon on April 06, 2013, 12:29:08 PM
Here's a thread describing the benefits of temple spamming. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=31056
In addition to cumulative effects on dominion spread, it also increases the number of sacred troops that can be recruited for every 5 temples (which really is only important for certain factions)
remember theyre not always 200 - it depends what race you are Neifelheim pay 400
Almost every faction pays 400 for temples. I believe the only ones that pay 200 are Man(not certain) and Pangaea(certain).
Every 5 temples increases the strength of your dominion (how easily it spreads) and also the maximum level your dominion can reach in any province by 1. For example, if you start a game with Dominion level 6, and then build 5 temples, your dominion then spreads as if it were level 7, it can reach a maximum of 7 candles in any given province, and every space in which you can build sacreds has a max number of 7 built per turn.
There's a formula in the manual which describes the math behind dominion spread, but I believe it's outdated. I thought I read five years or so ago that they'd changed it to something else that was equivalent.
Speaking of sacreds, 95% of the time you'll only be able to build your own factions types, which require a fort and a temple. Some spaces have special sites which also allow you to build other types of sacreds in those spaces. If you find one, you have to build a temple in the space to recruit them.
Ok, next question. FINDING GEM SITES
What is the best way to do this. I don't want to waste researching mages or those traveling with my army, but I need more than just my air and nature gems. Also, my mages can find water, air and nature but not earth...which is what I want. My newly escaped Pretender is level 5 earth, air, water and level 4 nature...he can find some but he also has a research h rate of 20 so don't want to waste that.
Are there icons on the map that indicate a higher likelihood of a gem site? For example, I see a Stonehenge looking thing and another province with a white star. I need earth gems to start making some of these items my pretender was born to craft!
Can your pretender forge any items that confer Earth magic skills? If so, you could make an Earth mage and then have him cast the remote Earth site detecting spell (name escapes me). Of course, that would require some Earth gems for each casting. If you can't trade for Earth gems, you can have a mage alchemize them for you if you have plenty of other gems that you don't need. It will be a 4 to 1 exchange rate, though. Two x gems convert to one Astral gem. Then two Astral gems convert to one Earth.
I like high luck scales for getting lots of gem and gold granting random events. Luck is also great for getting one or more of your factions three special heroes. I've read expert players saying that luck is overrated, but I've often had good - umm - luck with it. In my last test game as Jotunheim with Luck 3, for the upcoming middle era game, I received all three heroes by turn 30 or so. Granted, that's the best I've ever managed!
I've read that if you take negative luck scales, especially -2 or -3, you can forget about ever getting a special hero.
Quote from: Ubercat on April 06, 2013, 11:07:20 PM
Can your pretender forge any items that confer Earth magic skills? If so, you could make an Earth mage and then have him cast the remote Earth site detecting spell (name escapes me).
Gnome Lore (Thaumatugy-2) IIRC.
I also prefer to have at least an even Luck scale, as the extra money and gems are welcome... and the hero thing too of course. The latter really helps in site searching and research in the early game.
Quote from: mikeck on April 06, 2013, 09:47:58 PM
Ok, next question. FINDING GEM SITES
What is the best way to do this. I don't want to waste researching mages or those traveling with my army, but I need more than just my air and nature gems. Also, my mages can find water, air and nature but not earth...which is what I want. My newly escaped Pretender is level 5 earth, air, water and level 4 nature...he can find some but he also has a research h rate of 20 so don't want to waste that.
Are there icons on the map that indicate a higher likelihood of a gem site? For example, I see a Stonehenge looking thing and another province with a white star. I need earth gems to start making some of these items my pretender was born to craft!
i would take your pretender, and 2 mages with different magic paths and get walking - in our MP game here i have a W3 mage, my E4/D5/N4 pretender, and N3 mage - they havent failed to find one yet but it takes time - herein lies the beauty of the game - as Keannu once said 'what do you do, WHAT do you do?' - research or search, fight or forge - you cant do them all early game
or head for acashic record spell which is a level 9 search of all magic paths in your own territories
edit - all the none 'normal' territories have a higher gem possibility - swamp, mountain, waste and forest
I also read that the highest magic skill needed to find a site of a specific color is 4. So having a Pretender with 4+ in many disciplines (schools?) certainly makes manual searching more efficient.
In the end it about choices. I would love to put him to work researching or in command of a crap load of sacred troops. I am up to level 3 evochron, 3 alteration And 4 construction so he can do a little damage. Oh well. Better to use him now to look for gems so I can fight him later
Quote from: mikeck on April 07, 2013, 11:55:23 AM
I am up to level 3 evochron
Do you like space sims? :D
Damn spellcheck
Quote from: mikeck on April 07, 2013, 11:55:23 AMI am up to level 3 evochron eveonline
Dang MS autocorrect! I fixed it for you.
ok, one for me - can i cast a ritual summons spell anywhere or does it have to be in a lab domain - and does the said summons appear where the mage cast the spell
edit - balls, the mage needs the gems in his hand doesnt he - so in my case i think hell need to be at a lab but in future can he be anywhere if hes carrying the gems?
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 09, 2013, 04:30:54 PM
ok, one for me - can i cast a ritual summons spell anywhere or does it have to be in a lab domain - and does the said summons appear where the mage cast the spell
edit - balls, the mage needs the gems in his hand doesnt he - so in my case i think hell need to be at a lab but in future can he be anywhere if hes carrying the gems?
Rituals must be done at a magic Lab, and you can access your gem 'bank' at any of them so they don't need to actually carry them since they'll already be there.
Equipping gems is pretty much for combat spells.
A word of caution about blood slaves: Unlike gems, they are actually represented as units on the field in combat, and thus can be killed before they're "used" by the mage.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 09, 2013, 04:48:37 PM
A word of caution about blood slaves: Unlike gems, they are actually represented as units on the field in combat, and thus can be killed before they're "used" by the mage.
youre thinking of the wrong game but chhers huw
does the summons appear where the mage is?
Yes, units summoned by rituals appear in the same province as the mage casting the spell.
There are some exceptions. For example, the spell 'Call of the Wild' summons a werewolf and some wolves. This spell can be targeted at a remote province. If you target it at a province your nation does not control, the summoned werewolf will lead an attack against that province.
There are combat summons, that only work in battle. Things like illusions and elementals. These units always disappear after the battle.
There are also some big, global rituals. Things like Carrion Woods and Enchanted Forest. These spells summon units in every province that your nation controls (and has Dominions in). It summons these units every turn, until the commander that cast it dies, or the spell is dispelled.
OK. Huge Newb question. Why am I not seeing my battles play out?
When you end your turn you get some messages. If there was a battle, one of the messages will be "there was a Battle in Bison land" . To the right will be two options "go to province" and "watch battle"
Thanks Mikeck.
Huh. I figured it'd be like Conquest of Elysium where you watched the battle play out during the turn. This seems rather anti-climatic.
It's not that bad actually and is kind of fun to see the reports at the beginning of each new turn. I always like to watch the battle first then read the text report summarizing the result. It's sort of suspenseful in a way.
Yeah, I actually like it. This way, I can look at the summary of each battle and the province it occurred in and THEN decide which battle I want to watch. I don't need to sit through 4 battle reads of me hammering indies when all I really want to watch is the huge battle I lost to the Pangeans to figure out why I lost
Quote from: Bison on April 10, 2013, 06:58:51 AM
Thanks Mikeck.
Huh. I figured it'd be like Conquest of Elysium where you watched the battle play out during the turn. This seems rather anti-climatic.
I prefer to think of it as horribly tense. It's only anti-climactic if you move off the message screen to see the results on the map.
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Bison on April 10, 2013, 06:58:51 AM
Thanks Mikeck.
Huh. I figured it'd be like Conquest of Elysium where you watched the battle play out during the turn. This seems rather anti-climatic.
I prefer to think of it as horribly tense. It's only anti-climactic if you move off the message screen to see the results on the map.
yeah, click on show results or watch battle - i usually fold to get a quick snap with results and then watch the battle to find out where it all went wrong
There is another special summoning rule, or what amounts to summoning anyway: when bidding on mercenaries for hire, they will be slated to arrive (if you win the bid) in the last province you right-clicked.
So if you check the merc list and look them over and see someone you want to bid on, be sure to go back to the map first and right-click in the territory you want them to pop into before making your bid.
A few factions will also auto-spawn random units in enemy territories on occasion; you may get control of them if they survive any resulting fight.
Well I've been messing around with the Caelum or whatever the ice angel dudes are called. I have no idea what I'm doing. I really need to peruse the manual.
How do I create different squads under my leaders? Can I put leaders under other leaders? How do I find out what spells if any my leaders can cast? I had a priestly type leading an army that got destroyed, but on the bright side he cast spells I just don't understand how/why or where the spells came from.
I am playing through the tutorial now so I suspect my questions will be answered there as well.
Click on the unit and it will become highlighted. Then left click on the commanders chit and the unit will form a new squad. Highlight any unit and click in that squad to add it. It's really easier to play the tutorial than to explain. It's short and easy but the tutorial will get you going
No, leaders cannot be grouped under other leaders in this game.
Almost all priests have access to the same general holy spells, which don't have to be researched (although some require more holy-path strength than others), and they'll tend to autocast those unless you tell them specifically otherwise. Some priests also-or-instead have holy spells specific to their faction.
On the main game screen, look for "Army Management" (or something like that) button on the right; clicking that will bring up all commanders and movable troops (not any bought garrison troops though) currently in the province you've selected (but only in that province).
Unassigned troops will be collected at the top of the page. Commanders will be listed under them. Each commander can have up to five groups at once (minimum one unit per group); every time you select a unit and click on the commander the unit will be assigned to a new group. If you click on a group, selected units will go into that group instead. (The order of the units in the group doesn't matter.)
You can also transfer units between commanders or back to the province garrison bar instead. Each type of commander has a built-in max# of troops he can command: if he can only command 10 troops, you can only assign ten troops to him (although still up to five groups, of two units each in this case). Garrison can have an infinite number of troops.
(In fact, you'll buy permanent garrison troops separately on the main screen looking at the info window for a province, using the button for "garrison level". I think garrison troops are faction specific, not territory specific, but it's been a while since I had to watch someone invade one of my territories so I don't recall for sure. Anyway, once you spend money on them, they're permanently bought and will be instantly replaced next season at no extra charge after they die, and they don't cost upkeep, BUT you can't affect exactly how many or what kinds of units will be assigned to the garrison, or even know for sure what they are. Any units you individually buy will start off assigned to help out the normal garrison, until you assign them to a commander.)
You can assign exactly one general initial order to each group of a commander (once at least one unit is assigned to make a group of course); and you can place that group on the field (other than dead center where they default start) by clicking the grey square map next to the group bar. (Garrison doesn't get this advantage, even for individually bought units.) The orders and placements stay permanently assigned so long as the group exists under that commander, until you change the orders or the commander dies or anyway until the units leave the group. New units added to the group will default to the assigned initial command, so be careful about adding archers to the cavalry group you told to go melee the nearest monster!
You can assign field placement and initial actions to each commander, too, but commanders typically have a few more options available, and you can assign up to five initial actions before the AI takes over. Hero and monster units function like commanders this way, too, even if they cannot command troops.
So for example, you can tell your pretender and two other mages to sit in the back (by placing them there initially) while you have a group of spearmen up front, a group of archers behind them, and two cav groups one on each side (each of the five groups assigned to the pretender in this example). You order your spearmen to "hold and attack", so they stand still two turns and then charge ahead. (No command for permanently standing in place unfortunately, to make a frontline spearwall for example.) You order your archers to "fire and flee", which is one command that sets them to shoot two rounds and then retreat off the board. (You can assign each of those groups general target classes like "rearmost enemies" or "closest air", but the AI will default to closest enemies if no other targets are feasible.) You tell your cav groups to "attack" "rearmost enemies" meaning they'll run for the back line and then try to flank whoever is furthest back when they get there, which will take a couple of turns. Meanwhile you tell your pretender to "hold""hold" (hold twice) "cast""firestorm" (a third action) "change form" (because your pretender is really a badass dragon when he isn't busy being a mage) and "attack""rearmost enemies". The other two mages you tell to spend the first two turns casting fire protection spells on your troops and otherwise buffing them up, and then to "stay behind rearmost" where they will automatically keep throwing spells in support until they get tired.
What happens ideally then is that turn one your archers shoot at nearest cav (or whatever you told them) while the support mages buff the troops with resist fire; turn two, another archer volley, more buffing; turn three the archers start retreating off the field, as your spears advance to "attack closest target", meanwhile by now your cavalry has been running up the sides of the field and has reached the back line, your support mages move up behind the furthest troop and start casting whatever spells the AI thinks is feasible, and your pretender nukes the field with a firestorm. Turn four, your cav units are moving to the center of the field to finish flanking, maybe setting up a charge; your spears have started engaging the enemy's frontline; your support mages are probably meandering around the backfield randomly according to whichever retreating archer is farthest back, throwing long-range support spells; and your pretender has changed to an ass-kicking red dragon. Turn five, the cav units complete their flanking charge, the red dragon basically teleports to attack the enemy's rear, too (because "flying" == "instant teleport" for tactical purposes), and now the support mages are going to start moving closer to the fighting as the spearmen become the rearmost allies on field (the archers having perhaps fully retreated by now).
You can see how things would be likely to go horribly horribly wrong in all this, I hope. :)
(Dom3 fights tend to be about which side goes more horribly wrong in its tactics more quickly. ;) )
Good post jp
If you give me an hour bison I can give you some links for pretender creation tactics, and battlefield placement tactics that I found very useful
Thanks guys. I've started the tutorial and learned some of the management stuff. I'm stopped at the big army build up part, so between that and J's answer I've scratched around the answer a bit.
Yes UCG I welcome all help.
Quote from: Bison on April 10, 2013, 01:58:51 PM
Thanks guys. I've started the tutorial and learned some of the management stuff. I'm stopped at the big army build up part, so between that and J's answer I've scratched around the answer a bit.
Yes UCG I welcome all help.
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=1114 - this is the pretender set up guide
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3454638&userid=173236&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post400702956 - this is unit placement - strategy gold
Quote from: Bison on April 10, 2013, 12:47:56 PM
I am playing through the tutorial now so I suspect my questions will be answered there as well.
I was just gonna recommend that after seeing your question regarding separate squads under the same leader. ;D
I struggle with concept of reading a manual for instructions. :D
I have not read the manual and I'm doing fine. Play the turorial then jump in. I refer to the manual if I have a specific question. The first "game ending" mistake I made was not realizing how big armies needed to be. I was beating on independents with my 60 man army... Until I ran into another pretenders army of 160. There will be more for sure.
Pretender setup. Looking at the schools of magic and the starting level what's the general rule of thumb here? Is there a viable method of increasing a magic level in game through research/spell/item that off sets potentially low initial allocations? i.e. if I give my pretender 1 nature level, but what I am looking at down the spell chart is a spell that uses 3 nature how likely is it to increase the 2 levels in game?
Also in the tutorial I moved all my units to do an attack together. Now they are all linked and I cannot unlink them. So I go to move one army and the entire list highlight and wants to move. I don't even know how I linked them in the first place to be honest.
If it is your commanders on the map screen, then you can use shift-click to select/deselect commanders you want to move in a group.
Actually it's ctrl-click; shift-click will select/deselect multiple units in a line.
As for increasing magical prowess, yes there are ways of doing this. To begin with there's empowerment, which is expensive in gems but permanent. For example you might use 50 fire gems to go from level 2 to level 3 fire.
You can temporarily buff magic levels during combat via the use of certain spells. And you can forge magical items that also have the same effect.
For example you can forge a thistle mace to increase your nature by 1 but you need to be N2 first - in mp a very good ally might forge you one and gift it to you
Right at the back of the grimoire is a list of all the booster items
OK. I have a region, it happens to be my capital one, with a defense of 30 and several standing armies on "defend". However I'm being continuously attacked by both the evil AI opponent armies, which isn't the issue. I'd attack my pathetic pretender too. The issue is that every turn it says Caleum is attacked but that it was undefended and now my castle is being sieged. Why is my providence considered undefended? I thought that both defense # and armies set to defend would solve that issue.
Quote from: Bison on April 11, 2013, 09:45:30 AM
OK. I have a region, it happens to be my capital one, with a defense of 30 and several standing armies on "defend". However I'm being continuously attacked by both the evil AI opponent armies, which isn't the issue. I'd attack my pathetic pretender too. The issue is that every turn it says Caleum is attacked but that it was undefended and now my castle is being sieged. Why is my providence considered undefended? I thought that both defense # and armies set to defend would solve that issue.
im thinking aloud here because im not completely sure - are your armies properly formed or are they sat at the top of the screen in 'garrison'
Well they have units assigned to them and I've scripted battle plans for each of the generals. I figured that was all I need to do to setup a defensive army.
Odd, I would have thought the 30-garrison at least would fight.
When a commander is in a province with a fort, he can defend the region or defend the fort. I thought I recalled province defense being the default, though... (i.e. he had to be manually assigned to defend the fort instead.)
I believe a commander has to be set to patrol in order to fight outside the fort.
Hmm...I'll try to set them to patrol and see if that does anything. It's not something I've seen in other regions with defense and army.
When there is a Castle in the province being attacked, "Patrol" is the order you need if you want your armies standing there to join the Provincial Defense in case the province is being attacked. In a province without a castle, any units standing there that are not "hiding" will join the defense. But in a province with a Castle, if your enemy comes, your troops set on "Defend" will defend, but inside the castle :P. When you move an army from an adjacent province towards a Castled one, you can give an special order not available otherwise: "Move and Patrol"; that means the troops will move to the Castle province but no go into the Castle, thus defending the province if someone attacks.
Keep in mind that you PD is erased if defeated. So if an enemy beats your PD, you will have to raise it again. That maybe happening with the repeated "the province is undefended" messages.
As for boosting magic paths, there is a very good guide here:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37423 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37423)
I don't know if it's completely up to date, but it's very good. Something many people plan ahead when designing a pretender is for him/her to have certain paths you will need in the future (for forging or casting key items or spells) or him/her being able to forge the needed booster.
Though this is more common with "Rainbow" pretenders (that provide access to a variety of magic paths) than fighting ones. But a combat (SC) pretender can have certain paths your nation doesn't have helping diversity that way.
Thanks Lunaje. That clears up castle in province defense nicely.
Thanks for the link.
Hmm, yes, I'd forgotten the province defense garrison has to be rebought if it fights and loses.
What if it fights and wins with losses? e.g. a garrison with strength 30 manages to repel a sally but loses half its troops in the process? Does it automatically recharge to strength 30 next season? (Presumably not the same season, though?) Or is it strength 15 now (or whatever) and the extra levels have to be rebought?
Some errata and addenduma to previous posts:
There is one way (aside from directly buying individual units and setting them in the garrison slot) to slightly control what units will show up in garrison province defense (PD): at strength 10 and again at strength 20 a commander will be added. Not sure if this continues for greater strengths 30 etc.
Also, I was wrong about fortifications having no effect on gold income -- they increase income for the province they're in based on a fraction of some characteristic of the fort. I don't recall what the fraction is or which number it's a fraction of, but different forts will provide a different income benefit in different areas.
So early forts pay for themselves eventually and generate profit beyond what the province would normally have done without the fort, for the rest of the game.
(I don't know for sure, but forts may also reduce unrest levels in a province: I have one tucked away on a map that has no troops but a fort and maybe 20 PD, which I rarely generate troops from since it's out of range of the action compared to other forts, and I've had 120% tax there for at least a year without a single bit of unrest. Other areas with forts and similar garrisons with even stronger dominion and scale effects still generate unrest at 120% tax, however, so there may be some other factor.)
Forts double the gold income in the province in which they're built.
So would you all say forts/temple more important for expansion? I guess I don't really see the need for multiple labs. What's the benefit there beyond another research site?
Labs are the only places where ritual spells can be cast, and they're also universal gem storage (put gems in one lab and they'll be available at all labs).
Forts are important for expansion but I strongly recommend you read about them in the manual. They pull in resources from surrounding provinces, greatly boosting the province they're in but to the detriment of surrounding provinces. However they do provide defense.
the administration value of a fort (can be seen by clicking on the fort tab) will act as a sort of percentage modifier for gold income and the resources available in the province.
This means a new fort built for troop recruitment should be on or adjacent to high resource value territories, like forests or mountains. This is a basic rule, sometimes you just want to put a fort somewhere because of the strategic value. Forts provide supplies for an army, so if you want to garrison a lot of troops in a supply-poor territory, building a fort can help prevent them from starving.
My general rule is that if I have remaining gold after I recruit commanders and troops, I save it and put it toward contructing a new fort. Once upkeep gets so high this becomes unfeasable, it's time to stop constructing forts and invade someone.