Sad news.
May she rest in peace.
QuoteFormer Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher has died at 87 following a stroke, her spokesman has said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22067155 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22067155)
Wow, it didn't seem like anything was tough enough to end her life. RIP Iron Lady.
:( RIP Prime Minister
Sad. A strong ally and one of the last of our Cold Warriors. RIP.
Godspeed.
She was a truly great leader. May she be at peace.
It was a stroke. Nothing else could have killed her. She was a rarity among politicians. She knew what she was doing. She had a vision and she followed
it and managed to bring her countrymen along. Not everyone loved her but at the very least she was doing something. For a while it worked.
How many world leaders were portrayed in a newspaper headline wearing an eyepatch and being proclaimed a pirate?
One of Britain's greats. Bye.
She was an inspiring person. A friend of mine went to see her speak in Vancouver when she was old, doing the talk circuits. He said she was still very impressive in person (in her 80s?).
RIP
Farewell to a real tough old bird.
Quote from: bob48 on April 08, 2013, 12:24:29 PM
Farewell to a real tough old bird.
indeed
as boris said - in years to come she'll long be remembered compared to todays grey politicians
She certainly cast a large shadow on the world stage. RIP Margaret.
I loved her grit.
I loved her determination.
I loved how people underestimated her.
a/. breaking the coal miner's grip on Britain's energy sector - spoiled shits who wanted everything their way... like they were owed a living
b/. The Falklands
c/. the IRA
'nuff said.
Uh yeah, she was also the woman who stopped milk for schoolchildren, privatised everything in sight, and brought such tremendous ruin on the housing market that nobody can afford to buy a house any more without help from elsewhere.
She was a vile, poisonous bitch. I'm not gloating that she's dead - the day for gloating was when she was forced out of office (and gloat I did) - but I'm shedding no fucking tears here.
Here come the Zulus. Circle the wagons.
I hope you are feeling better Huw.
By the way, she's the only modern prime minister who legislated against homosexuality. The dear old thing.
Not your cup of tea huw?
Its the welsh coal mines isn't it. ;)
I've gotta say I've never quite seen a reaction to a politician the way Margaret Thatcher got one.
Folks seemed to either love her or hate her. First time I really understood this was when I bought an Elvis Costello album. Tramp the Dirt Down was rather stronger than I would have thought a politician would warrant.
There are politicians I like and those I don't, but I can't say I actually *hate* any of them. I really don't know many people who feel that strongly about them, either. Thatcher, however, seems to have cities full of people who genuinely hated her. And many that loved her.
Not sure what she did to earn that kind of polarizing reaction, but it sure seemed to be there.
I think a lot of the world hated Bush jr. As in "who the F put this cretin in charge?" Bush Sr seemed like a decent guy. I don't care if he strafed enemy pilots. Sons of Biotches had it commin!
Quote from: LongBlade on April 08, 2013, 03:50:00 PM
I've gotta say I've never quite seen a reaction to a politician the way Margaret Thatcher got one.
Folks seemed to either love her or hate her. First time I really understood this was when I bought an Elvis Costello album. Tramp the Dirt Down was rather stronger than I would have thought a politician would warrant.
There are politicians I like and those I don't, but I can't say I actually *hate* any of them. I really don't know many people who feel that strongly about them, either. Thatcher, however, seems to have cities full of people who genuinely hated her. And many that loved her.
Not sure what she did to earn that kind of polarizing reaction, but it sure seemed to be there.
This from Wikipedia -
Margaret Thatcher revitalised Britain's economy, curbed the trade unions, and re-established the nation as a world power.[235] She oversaw an increase from 7 per cent to 25 per cent of adults owning shares, and more than a million families bought their council houses, giving an increase from 55 per cent to 67 per cent in owner-occupiers. Total personal wealth rose by 80 per cent,[236] and women's pay rose dramatically to the highest level on record and stayed there.[237]
Thatcher's premiership was also marked by high unemployment and social unrest,[235] a legacy of mismanagement by the previous government [237] and many critics on the Left of the political spectrum fault her economic policies for the unemployment level; many of the areas affected by high unemployment as a result of previous government policy as well as her monetarist economic policies have still not fully recovered and are blighted by social problems such as drug abuse and family breakdown.[238] Speaking in Scotland in April 2009, before the 30th anniversary of her election as Prime Minister, Thatcher insisted she had no regrets and was right to introduce the poll tax, and to withdraw subsidies from "outdated industries, whose markets were in terminal decline", subsidies that created "the culture of dependency, which had done such damage to Britain".[239] Political economist Susan Strange called the new financial growth model "casino capitalism", reflecting her view that speculation and financial trading were becoming more important to the economy than industry.[240]
She has been criticised as being divisive[241] and for promoting greed and selfishness.[235] Many recent biographers have been critical of aspects of the Thatcher years and Michael White, writing in the Left-Wing New Statesman in February 2009, challenged the view that her reforms had brought a net benefit.[242] Despite being Britain's first woman Prime Minister, some critics contend Thatcher did "little to advance the political cause of women",[243] either within her party or the government, and some British feminists regarded her as "an enemy".[244] Her stance on immigration was perceived by some as part of a rising racist public discourse, which Left-Wing[245] Professor Martin Barker has called "new racism".[246]
Influenced at the outset by Keith Joseph,[247] the term "Thatcherism" came to refer to her policies as well as aspects of her ethical outlook and personal style, including moral absolutism, nationalism, interest in the individual, and an uncompromising approach to achieving political goals.[nb 5] The nickname "Iron Lady", originally given to her by the Soviets, became associated with her uncompromising politics and leadership style.[248][249][250]
In 2011, Labour leader Ed Miliband praised some of Thatcher's key policies, stating: "Some of what happened in the 1980s was right. It was right to let people buy their council houses. It was right to cut tax rates of 60, 70, 80 per cent. And it was right to change the rules on the closed shop, on strikes before ballots. These changes were right, and we were wrong to oppose it at the time."[251] In September 2012 Miliband was reported to have praised Thatcher for creating an era of aspiration in the 1980s,[252] and is quoted as having said "My dad was sceptical of all the Thatcher aspirational stuff. But I felt you sort of had to recognise that what she was talking about struck a chord."[253]
id pretty much agree with most of the that - some say she made the rich richer and the poor poorer and those traditional leftwing, working class communities became bitter at the shift in the social scales - liverpool, practically all of scotland, and many traditional mining communities are the parts of the country that will not be sad today - whilst not sad, for the first time in a long time and not since her departure she made me and a lot of Britain proud to be british
Longblade: It's because she completely ruined half the country, to such an extent that we're still living with the consequences today. That you can't think of another politician so reviled should tell you something in itself.
Mind you, I've seen plenty of politicians come and go who I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. But Thatcher is the worst by far.
Undercovergeek: I'm from south Wales. What do you think? :P
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 08, 2013, 02:57:16 PM
Uh yeah, she was also the woman who stopped milk for schoolchildren, privatised everything in sight, and brought such tremendous ruin on the housing market that nobody can afford to buy a house any more without help from elsewhere.
She was a vile, poisonous bitch. I'm not gloating that she's dead - the day for gloating was when she was forced out of office (and gloat I did) - but I'm shedding no fucking tears here.
sounds like you think it wasn't a good trade
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on April 08, 2013, 04:01:09 PM
I think a lot of the world hated Bush jr. As in "who the F put this cretin in charge?" Bush Sr seemed like a decent guy. I don't care if he strafed enemy pilots. Sons of Biotches had it commin!
I think Bush Sr. will be treated kindly by History. He had a policy and he followed it and even now, except for not strangling that kid of his when he pretended to be
in the Air Guard, I cannot recall any big bad things he did. There are positives. He specifically
did not invade Iraq and articulated the reasons. They made sense.
His kid, well the less said the better. I was amazed by how much the Europeans loathed him. They aren't that big on loathing.
but Jr. loves bass fishing....
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemecrunch.com%2Fmeme%2FFP3J%2Fstay-on-target%2Fimage.png&hash=2a1ea4f5947fc5da47632744f0e44b44ab5646f7)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 08, 2013, 04:45:20 PM
It's because she completely ruined half the country
but totally transformed the other half
made us all believe we could aspire to something better instead of waiting for the state to give us it
allowed even the poorest working class to believe they could get out of the shit and make a better life for themselves - if one couldnt be bothered, didnt have the will, didnt know how to - then that was your loss and youre still living in Durham, Newcastle and Liverpool pissing and moaning about it because you thought the government should look after your family and not you
allowed piss poor working class to buy their own council houses
and the Falklands
legend!
Oh My. I picture Huw trying to sneak into the funeral procession with a hammer and a paper bag of nails.
Or a necklace of garlic cloves. :D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22073454 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22073454)
What was Thatcher's approach to the IRA? I can take a guess...
In an era of political giants, Margaret Thatcher stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the best. History will judge her very well, I suspect.
Quote from: Gusington on April 08, 2013, 07:36:58 PM
What was Thatcher's approach to the IRA? I can take a guess...
She wouldn't negotiate with them - when some of them went on a hunger strike she let them die - and they tried to blow her up for it, and (this I didn't know until the news last night) - they did get 2 of her close friends and allies later on
I dont care what the politcal party or backround is but I can respect going to the mat for your beliefs, up to a point.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 08, 2013, 02:57:16 PM
Uh yeah, she was also the woman who stopped milk for schoolchildren, privatised everything in sight, and brought such tremendous ruin on the housing market that nobody can afford to buy a house any more without help from elsewhere.
She was a vile, poisonous bitch. I'm not gloating that she's dead - the day for gloating was when she was forced out of office (and gloat I did) - but I'm shedding no fucking tears here.
Totally agree with Huw. To those not living in her country she may have appeared a tough leader but unfortunately thats not the only qualification a good leader needs. Given most of her supporters see her as a patriot - it is ironinc she was entirely responsible for the destruction of the UK as a manufacturing economy. The very thing that gave us empire and influence. What she left us with was an economy entirely dependent on amoral banking scum. The true danger of which we are only realizing today. Politics aside - she may have destroyed the unions (which being a working man I dont necessarily think was the greatest idea in the world) - but to do it she destroyed eveything that made this country in the first place. If you believe one persons ideology is worth an entire nations future and well being then I guess she was a good leader. Privatisation has only led to service being worse and more expensive - and of course those at the top a lot richer. If your politics are darwinian in nature and one of the "few survive and the rest can F**k off and die" then she would be a role model. For me - there are likely several thousand people who died the same day who were more deserving of my sympathy.
my goodness its almost like she stormed to power amid a regime of tanks and soldiers - oh no wait we voted her in 3 times over 11 years she was that bad
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 09, 2013, 04:47:32 AM
my goodness its almost like she stormed to power amid a regime of tanks and soldiers - oh no wait we voted her in 3 times over 11 years she was that bad
Well - you may of - I certainly didnt. And as in most voting democracies with a first past the post system - the person who gets to power is generally voted in by a minority of those voting - which she was, all three times. So - use of the word
we is somewhat innacurate. As churchill said - this is not a democracy it is an elected dictatorship and governments run on the basis that once every five years they have kept a sufficient minority of people wealthy and on side enough to keep them in power. To suggest Margret Thatcher brought consensus to the UK is the very opposite of what she did. She - and the governments that followed her doctrine after - left a country that doesnt make anything, whose essential supplies of strategic services, energy water transport, etc are all in the hands of foreign companies, and whose sole marketable industry is a banking system so corrupt and immoral it has bought the country to the verge of financial oblivion and forced taxpayers to foot a bill just to keep the country going that they will be paying off longer than the debt for WWII.
Quote from: Zulu1966 on April 09, 2013, 05:57:15 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 09, 2013, 04:47:32 AM
my goodness its almost like she stormed to power amid a regime of tanks and soldiers - oh no wait we voted her in 3 times over 11 years she was that bad
Well - you may of - I certainly didnt. And as in most voting democracies with a first past the post system - the person who gets to power is generally voted in by a minority of those voting - which she was, all three times. So - use of the word we is somewhat innacurate. As churchill said - this is not a democracy it is an elected dictatorship and governments run on the basis that once every five years they have kept a sufficient minority of people wealthy and on side enough to keep them in power. To suggest Margret Thatcher brought consensus to the UK is the very opposite of what she did. She - and the governments that followed her doctrine after - left a country that doesnt make anything, whose essential supplies of strategic services, energy water transport, etc are all in the hands of foreign companies, and whose sole marketable industry is a banking system so corrupt and immoral it has bought the country to the verge of financial oblivion and forced taxpayers to foot a bill just to keep the country going that they will be paying off longer than the debt for WWII.
the nature of humanity is such that we'll cooperate to get our basic needs met, but thereafter all bets are off
Quote from: Windigo on April 09, 2013, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Zulu1966 on April 09, 2013, 05:57:15 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 09, 2013, 04:47:32 AM
my goodness its almost like she stormed to power amid a regime of tanks and soldiers - oh no wait we voted her in 3 times over 11 years she was that bad
Well - you may of - I certainly didnt. And as in most voting democracies with a first past the post system - the person who gets to power is generally voted in by a minority of those voting - which she was, all three times. So - use of the word we is somewhat innacurate. As churchill said - this is not a democracy it is an elected dictatorship and governments run on the basis that once every five years they have kept a sufficient minority of people wealthy and on side enough to keep them in power. To suggest Margret Thatcher brought consensus to the UK is the very opposite of what she did. She - and the governments that followed her doctrine after - left a country that doesnt make anything, whose essential supplies of strategic services, energy water transport, etc are all in the hands of foreign companies, and whose sole marketable industry is a banking system so corrupt and immoral it has bought the country to the verge of financial oblivion and forced taxpayers to foot a bill just to keep the country going that they will be paying off longer than the debt for WWII.
the nature of humanity is such that we'll cooperate to get our basic needs met, but thereafter all bets are off
Well - I'd debate your use of the word humanity to describe that - but I agree thats pretty much how the world works and she was most certainly its staunchest advocate.
England lost one of its great leaders.