Just picked up OOTP14 since the release looks to have gone quite smoothly and the new additions are popular with the forumites.
I've never been a huge baseball fan but love the sports manager "text" sims. This will give me some intellectual chin scratching time while waiting on my TrackIR to show up, and also between my flights of fancy with DCS sims in the near future.
Anyone else committed yet? I know there were at least a couple, hereabouts, ready to board that ship.
Pre ordered and got a week ago...but haven't played a game yet:). I usually try and wait for the onslaught of initial patches that always come out after release.
I'm compulsive about getting this one. I usually try to only get the odd numbered ones, but I broke down and grabbed it. But I've had no time to start a league.
I'm a huge baseball fan - it's my favorite sport. I love stats and following the players. You'd think that OOTP would be a big hit with me...but not so. I can only get through a few games before I set it aside. I think it's the text sim aspect. I've found that as I've aged, I can't read anything for longer than a few minutes before my attention diverts to something else. I think I have adult ADD now as I used to love to read. If I'm on my tablet reading the rules or manual to a game, I'll quickly get distracted and start surfing websites or checking forums. I can't spend hour(s) just reading like I once could. So that becomes a problem in games like OOTP because I get bored with reading and go off to do something else. Maybe it's the day and age that we live in; with the internet and all of these electronic devices, there is just so much to be doing and so your mind wanders off thinking about what else you could be doing. There, I've just diagnosed what's wrong with todays kids and all the over-prescribing of psychotropic drugs. Ok, I'm bored with typing this response...off to go find something to play.....
I pre-ordered OOTP 14 and am playing it tonight (actually learning it). Waiting for Baseball Mogul to get into playable shape and then it will probably be my primary baseball sim. I imagine if I ever get comfortable with OOTP it will replace BM but so far I enjoy the ease and simplicity of BM. I really wish there was an option somewhere between the the two in terms of options and play...again its probably just a matter of getting OOTP configured to suit my preferences more than anything.
OOTP14 is pretty damn slick...
Quote from: gabeeg on April 21, 2013, 01:17:31 AM
I pre-ordered OOTP 14 and am playing it tonight (actually learning it). Waiting for Baseball Mogul to get into playable shape and then it will probably be my primary baseball sim. I imagine if I ever get comfortable with OOTP it will replace BM but so far I enjoy the ease and simplicity of BM. I really wish there was an option somewhere between the the two in terms of options and play...again its probably just a matter of getting OOTP configured to suit my preferences more than anything.
OOTP14 is pretty damn slick...
Invest the time in OOTP. In my opinion there's no comparison between OOTP and Mogul. The OOTP world seems more alive and fluid than Mogul.
I have version 13, but must confess that I really got my head around baseball and ootp even though I really wanted. So I will maybe buy when ootp 15 is released ;)
Quote from: gabeeg on April 21, 2013, 01:17:31 AM
I pre-ordered OOTP 14 and am playing it tonight (actually learning it). Waiting for Baseball Mogul to get into playable shape and then it will probably be my primary baseball sim. I imagine if I ever get comfortable with OOTP it will replace BM but so far I enjoy the ease and simplicity of BM. I really wish there was an option somewhere between the the two in terms of options and play...again its probably just a matter of getting OOTP configured to suit my preferences more than anything.
OOTP14 is pretty damn slick...
After you've studied up a bit on a couple of the more troublesome concepts, such as the Roster Management rules (Option years, Rule 5 Draft Eligibility, etc.) and contract details, you should be fine. The rest is cake since you can hire some highly rated staff to do the grunt work (filling out line-ups & game strategies). In most cases, it's just a matter of hitting 'F1' if you need detailed info on all the specific stuff it contains. The in-game manual is fairly detailed and takes you straight to the section corresponding to what you're spying at that moment.
The most difficult part I had picking up was how to juggle injuries & replacements back and forth without burning too many Player Option years in the process. That's an art in & of itself, to be sure. I highly suggest you ogle the Tutorial Vids that are linked in a pop-up when you first start the game and also on the OOTP website under Support IIRC. It gives you a quick rundown on these things. I found them helpful in clarifying this odd MLB stuff after reading the manual section on them and becoming familiar with the interface location of such info.
Vid links: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out-of-the-park-baseball/videos.php
Once you understand the roster mgmt rules & interface, it's all down hill. You'll probably be as addicted as I've already become, and I'm still learning!
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on April 20, 2013, 07:46:33 PM
Pre ordered and got a week ago...but haven't played a game yet:). I usually try and wait for the onslaught of initial patches that always come out after release.
I believe that I've found a couple bugs already. A couple in regards to having your Manager or Coach automatically setting the lineups/pitchers every game. They haven't been reevaluating the player situation
before each game, so if there's an injured player, it still tends to leave them in during the next game as a starter instead of benching them. Then it will switch 'em out on the 2nd game after the injury. This delay also happened whenever I set the specifically injured player to be forceably benched for a couple weeks and that didn't kick in until the game after the next, too. Minor stuff.. now that I know it's happening, I can just manually switch the line-up for that 1 game in between. Still, it'd be nice if the AI Manager/Coach checked this stuff at the beginning of the next day's game instead of at the end. I guess this isn't as much of a problem for those who micro-manage their own lineups and games.
There are probably more little bugs like that. Also saw mention that the Amateur Draft funds set aside for just such purposes may not actually be getting alotted when draft time comes. That could be a real pain if it's bugged as then you could only use any extra 'pocket' cash normally used for paying Free Agents in the draft and would be missing the Millions of dollars the owner had set aside for the draft. Doing it that way is kinda gamey but I read there were some gameplay & AI purposes for doing so. And now it may not be working properly at the moment. :D
Despite some of these things, I'm in Info Overload heaven. I do have at least one question for you vets, right now. What are some useful hot-keys??! I found that Backspace is the 'Back' button. Another important shorty is Rt-Clicking to close Player Info windows. That's brilliant as you do it all the time. Gimme more!
I was almost going to take the plunge - but didn't...and now I'm over the itch I probably won't. Like others, I seem to get every other...and I have 13 which is pretty cool.
I still don't have the info down pat and find the roster amazingly difficult to grasp. Injuries really throw me because promoting/demoting seems to cause issues and you can only "demote" so many times?
Quote from: JudgeDredd on April 21, 2013, 02:32:01 PM
I still don't have the info down pat and find the roster amazingly difficult to grasp. Injuries really throw me because promoting/demoting seems to cause issues and you can only "demote" so many times?
From what I've seen.. once you use a player's Option to move them from the Majors back down to the Minors, you can freely move them between the two for that whole year. So as long as injuries don't go over-the-top crazy, you should theoretically be keeping a handful of backup players on your 40-man Roster who have at least one free Option year for replacing injuries. Once these backups are out of Option years, and aren't good enough for a Starter position & getting older, then get rid of them and replace with another new depth player with available Option years. Hopefully some younger ones that you can sign cheap. This stuff is certainly part of the challenge.
I'm not sure how well injury frequency is modelled. I seem to be getting them quite regularly even though my Phys Trainer is rated pretty high. I shudder to think how many injuries I'd have if he weren't. Makes me wonder whether I should lower the injury rates a tad when you start getting six or eight of your starters on the Disabled List for 2+weeks at a shot. To be fair, the injury frequency always seems to be a bit too frequent in all these sport text sims anyway, so it wouldn't be surprising if OOTP is too. At least we can manually adjust it. :D
When I finally start my league, I intend to use the AI managers to handle the minors. That is just too deep for my tastes.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on April 21, 2013, 05:10:12 PM
When I finally start my league, I intend to use the AI managers to handle the minors. That is just too deep for my tastes.
Oh definitely. That would be just too much workload to juggle so many teams at once.
I've put the Minor League promotions, demotions, and signings under the Minor teams' control. Every once in awhile I'll go release a few of the minor league players who are getting older and obviously never going anywhere in order to make room for my new Draftees or the odd free agent I may give a Minors contract to. Don't want too many Minors players on one team else some prospects may not get enough play time! ;)
Just had my first year's 1st round draft pick turn down two separate signing bonus offers of 4 and 5 Million bucks, then tell me to piss off. >:( When it said that specific player would be "very difficult" to sign, it wasn't joking. ;D
Seems lke a new patch coming this week and then the developers are taken some time off....probably give it a go then.
Nefaro, do you play with financials enabled? In seven years I've never tried it!
Couple, of things...for those that play
First off - I don't really get the "draft" thing. So I tend to steer clear and in fact I don't think I've EVER bought/sold/swapped a player before - and I've likely gotten away with that because I've never finished a season because I ALWAYS want to play the games out - though now with the real time playout, I just sti and watch that - very gripping at times.
Anyway - couple of things...
- Do you auto play through the seasons? I generally watch the real time feeds, as I've said
- And do any of you change your squad from the off? Generally because I'm starting a new season, I start with the squad I've got and check their stats as I go...but I only ever really got the the first (possibly second) draft before I've gave up because I have no idea what I'm doing
- Do any of you change your staff? I've always kept the staff I start with
I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but OOTP14 is my first go at this series. I've been a baseball fan since I was a kid (and as a New York native who has lived in Boston for the past 14 years, have endured a bit of heartache for it.... the memories of the 2004 ALCS will never be erased...). For whatever reason though, I've never felt the urge to plunge into the OOTP universe... until now.
I can't believe what I've been missing out on. Just Wow.
Just to JudgeDredd's point -- this is something I'm divided over myself: what balance to strike between playing mainly as the GM, and how much micromanaging (or not) to do as Manager. A big part of me wants to control everything, from when to lay down the sac bunt and use the infield shift. Of course, even a single season at this level would take forever. I've tried setting the *incredibly* detailed AI Manager strategy settings -- the ones that control all the scenarios "Game Tied, Innings 4-6" and the like. But I can't get a read on how much this really influences the AI manager and whether it's worth all the trouble. I think I'm going to have to let the AI manage my games -- but I don't really trust it.
Quote from: bbmike on April 22, 2013, 05:44:06 AM
Nefaro, do you play with financials enabled? In seven years I've never tried it!
Definitely! I also leave the starting finances as they are estimated to be for the real MLB teams.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on April 22, 2013, 05:58:30 AM
Couple, of things...for those that play
First off - I don't really get the "draft" thing. So I tend to steer clear and in fact I don't think I've EVER bought/sold/swapped a player before - and I've likely gotten away with that because I've never finished a season because I ALWAYS want to play the games out - though now with the real time playout, I just sti and watch that - very gripping at times.
Anyway - couple of things...
- Do you auto play through the seasons? I generally watch the real time feeds, as I've said
- And do any of you change your squad from the off? Generally because I'm starting a new season, I start with the squad I've got and check their stats as I go...but I only ever really got the the first (possibly second) draft before I've gave up because I have no idea what I'm doing
- Do any of you change your staff? I've always kept the staff I start with
Yes, I just auto-resolve the games, although regularly checking the box score info afterward. I'm more into evaluating the stats and roster management (to include drafts & contract negotiations). I've been having my AI manager automatically fill out the starting line-ups but will make adjustments via the individual Player Strategy window to tweak how each individual is weighted in use. I'll eventually switch over to occasionally asking the Manager for line-ups then fine tune them myself once I'm more comfortable with it.
I haven't changed my initial team on the first season, other than a few trades. If I see someone who's overpaid, or maybe even a player who will hit arbitration after this season & I can replace with a better performing one from the Minors, I'll shop them around to see what trades are offered. Unlike some of these games, the AI can offer up some reasonably balanced trades when you shop players around the league. Other than that, the first year is just blasting through as the Free Agent list doesn't have many good picks at that point so you won't be able to pick up good veteran Free Agents until the end of the season when contracts end and the pool is filled up with new FAs. Also.. it's kinda difficult to gauge performance until you get plenty of games simmed and get that backlog of stats built up. While the game contains previous seasons' stats for most pro players, that doesn't necessarily mean their trends will continue since those are RL stats and the game engine is now running things. From what I've seen it does a great job of simming outcomes (probably one of the best in the genre) but it also has those random streaks & player improvements. Hell, I currently have a 1 out of 5 star-rated 36 year old bench outfielder who has hit .346 in 180+ At Bats. Looking at all the scout ratings, you wouldn't expect that to happen. So you gotta eyeball the actual stats too, not just the scout ratings.
As for the draft, I've not had enough experience to see how my picks turn out yet. But I think it's one of the funnest parts of these games. I wouldn't want to play one if it didn't have drafts. I've read that you not only need to check both scout ratings (yours and the latest OSA ratings) along with making sure the prospect's Intelligence and Work Ethic ratings aren't below Normal (in the BNN Stats tab of the player's Overview page). That's only the recommendations I've seen, and it should at least help you make decent picks. However, once it gets down to only 1 or 1.5 Star prospects left to choose from, I tend to just let the AI pick those for me as they're all generally minor league filler at that point so there's not much to tell if one will shoot up later or not. Evidentally they just added the Player Progression page to Player's stats so you can see how their scouted ratings have changed over time. I can see that being a big help on gauging your Minors players' improvement rates.
I'm waiting until my current Staff's contracts run out before shopping around. If there are some notable improvements available when that happens, I'll offer them contracts. You gotta get the best you can here as your coaches & scouts have an effect on nearly everything.
I'm certainly no expert at this stuff, but I've dug up a fair amount of info since starting because I also have lots of questions.
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 22, 2013, 09:35:06 AM
I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but OOTP14 is my first go at this series. I've been a baseball fan since I was a kid (and as a New York native who has lived in Boston for the past 14 years, have endured a bit of heartache for it.... the memories of the 2004 ALCS will never be erased...). For whatever reason though, I've never felt the urge to plunge into the OOTP universe... until now.
I can't believe what I've been missing out on. Just Wow.
Just to JudgeDredd's point -- this is something I'm divided over myself: what balance to strike between playing mainly as the GM, and how much micromanaging (or not) to do as Manager. A big part of me wants to control everything, from when to lay down the sac bunt and use the infield shift. Of course, even a single season at this level would take forever. I've tried setting the *incredibly* detailed AI Manager strategy settings -- the ones that control all the scenarios "Game Tied, Innings 4-6" and the like. But I can't get a read on how much this really influences the AI manager and whether it's worth all the trouble. I think I'm going to have to let the AI manage my games -- but I don't really trust it.
The AI Manager Strategy settings have been working fairly well for me, after I made some adjustments. The problem is that it's not saving the different situations that I see. When I make a change to one, it's the same for all of them. Must be a bug.. or the situational part isn't implemented. Still.. I've managed to take my home team to a better record than achieved in recent memory thus far, after adjusting the Strategy sliders and noticing an improvement, so it definitely has an effect.
Glad to hear the AI Manager overall can be trusted. I like the idea of tweaking the AI situational settings, but it's hard to know how dramatically or not moving a bar over one or two clicks actually impacts decision-making. I've been trying out different things, but I should probably just use the "Have manager set strategy" option and see how that works for, say, a whole season to get a better read.
One big question -- does the AI manager 'know' to manager rosters differently during Spring Training than it would during regular season? It does seem to keep your starting pitchers on a very strict, low pitch count (which is good), but I haven't been seeing it mix up lineups enough to my satisfaction. I want the manager to do split-squad type games on occasion, to get a look at the prospects, and also not overexpose my stars to injury risk. My ace SP blew out his rotator cuff *in the very first game of spring training*...didn't even get through the 2nd inning, and now out for 5-6 months. This makes me sad.
I totally agree about drafting -- I love to draft players and could just start up new leagues to have the fun of doing it. In my last draft I got up to about Round 70, and then let the AI finish it... at that point you're just picking scrubs -- definitely no major leaguers or even prospects left that late in the draft, although it's only about halfway through (150 rounds).
The one thing that has really surprised me is how much more I prefer creating fictional leagues than playing with real MLB teams. I just assumed I'd want to play with real-life players and rosters, but I'm finding creating my own leagues from scratch, and not having any preconceptions about players or organizations (because they're all fictional) is a lot more fun.
I'm sure the rather generalized Strategy settings aren't gonna be up to par compared to a knowledgeable human being micro-managing that stuff. But it does make a difference. I'd actually recommend you adjust some sliders from the default as that is set by your Manager's own style and you can tweak a few things to tailor your team's strong or weak points.
I specifically recall adjusting Hook Starting Pitcher down a notch or two, although I would've gone further if I had more than one good Reliever. Another was 'Hold Runners' as I had started getting a steady increase in stolen bases against me before doing so. I didn't do any drastic slider adjustments, the biggest being moving the Defense-Offense slider to neutral and the Speed->Hitting slider up from pure speed (because my team has both good hitters and some speed and it was set fully to speed). I had moved them maybe a quarter to a third of a bar at most and it seemed to make a difference in the stats I was seeing after every game. Probably not perfect but I really don't want to micro-manage every game.. that would take forever! Hey.. I have a firm hold on a Wild Card spot (with the Royals even) so the AI must be somewhat capable of calling the plays.
Ok - another question.
I think I get the draft....loads of players are up for grabs and you get to bid - but what is the "draft order"? Is that where I am in terms of being allowed to bid? So if my order is 16th - then 15 other teams get to bid for players before me? Do the players take the offers there and then and therefore are removed - so the list that I eventually get is considerably less than the team in position 1 in the draft order?
Also - I guess the order is based on...? Success of the team? Position? Wins?
Quote from: JudgeDredd on April 22, 2013, 04:16:25 PM
Ok - another question.
I think I get the draft....loads of players are up for grabs and you get to bid - but what is the "draft order"? Is that where I am in terms of being allowed to bid? So if my order is 16th - then 15 other teams get to bid for players before me? Do the players take the offers there and then and therefore are removed - so the list that I eventually get is considerably less than the team in position 1 in the draft order?
Also - I guess the order is based on...? Success of the team? Position? Wins?
Yes, the draft order is based on the previous season's wins. A lower win percentage means that teams gets an earlier draft position. So the #1 position gets to take it's pick first and each team gets to choose one player in order. After they've all chosen one, it moves on to the second round and proceeds in the same order until all rounds are finished. IIRC there are 40 rounds in MLB now? I don't know details for sure as I'm more familiar with american football but this is how it generally works. I believe the MLB places them by Win Percentage.
There are also optional League-wide drafts you can initiate when you begin a new career. Some people enjoy doing this to mix up the player base or even have completely new fictional players created to fill it too. There are usually also options for "serpentine" drafts in such initial mash-ups and those types of drafts proceed from team 1 to 32 (or however many are in the league being created) and then the second round picks from position 32 back to 1 and so forth. This way it supposedly helps average out the perceived values of the highest and lowest positions a bit better. That's something preferable in just such an Inaugural Draft if you choose to use one.
I've only initiated a current historical MLB league so I've not experimented with all the different options yet, but they're pretty standard fare in modern text sims and I read that some of these options are also in OOTP.
As for drafted players - once they are drafted by a team, then that team is the only one who has the rights to negotiate a contract for them that year. It's one of many things that helps equalize all teams' chances at having good players, and not just the richest ones. It also helps give a leg-up to teams having poor seasons with favorable draft position to (ideally) help get them back to being competitive. IIRC the top 8 or 10 rounds of draft picks can demand a contract signing bonus and that's what you'll still have to negotiate after the draft is over in order to actually get them to sign a Minor League Contract with your team. If you can't come to an agreement on signing bonus with any of these few players, then they will often be available in next year's draft and the team who lost the pick gets an extra equivalent pick spot next year as compensation. The rest of the many rounds after that first decisive set just go straight to a minor league contract.. no bonus. Your team basically gets the rights to them for a number of years after they sign with you.
I believe a short summary of contract progression is something like:
1) Minor League up to 6 years before the status quo changes a bit.
2) Minor League players become eligible for Rule 5 Draft if they're still on a Minor Contract after doing their 6 years of "Professional" service time (aka Minor league) and still haven't been signed to a Major League Contract or place on your team's 40-Man roster (which automatically gives them a league-minimum Major contract anyway IIRC).
3) Your team still has a few years of Major League contract rights to this player. When you first give them a Major League contract, they'll be paid the base Major league salary and the contract will renew every year, for a few years.
4) Arbitration. After the initial Major league contract years are over, the contract screen will mention that the player will (or can possibly) go to Arbitration after this season. If you can't come to an agreement on a new contract extension, it will go into Arbitration and both the player & team submit their proposals to a 3rd party who decides which is the more reasonable offer. This can piss off your prospective player, so try to negotiate with the player directly before it gets to the Arbitration period and try to make it work beforehand. If you don't want to offer them anything, you can let them go to an early Free Agency.
5) Free Agency. At this point, after the Arbitration period is over, the team has no more specific rights to the player. So they can freely take bids from all teams and really rake in the dough (if they're still healthy and good or even decent at what they do). This is where the proven veteran talents get the big bids. ;D
The International draft is supposed to be a new addition. It's just a small ordeal that's pretty limited in scope and it has some tough limits on offers. But you can scoop up some young international talent here & there in this small int'l draft, along with your scouts also stumbling across a few here & there. These all get added to your "International" rookie list and you don't even have to give them minor league contracts until they reach 20, if you don't want to.
I'm no expert at this but as you may have noticed, I enjoy studying up on deep strategy games like this. I've done more of that than playing thus far and still need to see if I've learned anything to my advantage. :P
wow...thanks for that very detailed post. Though it's still confusing (the draft) in places.
The draft in my game starts in 4 weeks.
I looked through the draft pool as I'm looking for some pitchers to replace not so good pitchers - but I quickly got the impression these were "new players - players looking for a signing because I only saw 1/2 and 1 star pitchers...so is the draft a list of n00bies waiting to get their break?
If so - how do I go about replacing people on my team with better players? Do I have to approach other players in other teams? Or look at the free agent listing? Is there a "specific" time period where I can make a bid for a player on another team - or is it not allowed at all. Is there a specific time window where I can take on new players outside the draft?
In the UK (football) for example there are set windows (2 I think) where teams can buy and sell players called the transfer window - is there something similar in baseball?
I was watching one of my games (the box score) on 10 speed real time last night against Texas (I play Anaheim Angels) and it was top of the 9th and Texas had the bases loaded....I was biting my nails and the next up was Mark Napoli (I think that was his name) and he had already picked up a home run that game. Looking at his stats the pitcher would probably have liked to force him to walk...but he couldn't with the bases loaded...the play was 3-2 (balls to strikes) and he struck out!! They still won 4-2 but it had the potential to be 8-2
Nice summary, Nefaro.
Just to tout the usefulness of the online ootp manual -- if you can stomach it (it's pretty long), it's time well spent, especially regarding all the Contract rules that you have to deal with as a GM. It's critical to know exactly when you can and cannot (without penalty) move players around within your organization. Once you elevate any player to the Majors, even to just the 40-man roster, contract rules start coming into play that are pretty darn complicated. Nef's summary is good though.
But I tend to think of 'getting to the Majors' as a red-line in a player's development, from an economic standpoint. Once a player crosses that line and acquires a major league contract, you have to start paying attention to how you can use him, if he's someone you care about and want to retain. You can keep players entirely in the Minors for a long time -- 6 years, although potentially more depending on whether he's 'protected' on the 40-man roster and has Option years left on his contract.
... it gets pretty complicated !
I think the thing about the rookie draft is: keep expectations low. You're drafting raw talent here, not developed players. There are only a very tiny fraction of rookies who can get to the Majors and be a contributing force within 1-2 years -- these are the Big Time Prospects that everyone knows about and will be snatched up in the first picks of the first round by teams with lousy records. And LOTS of even first pick overall super-prospects never pan out to anything more than completely mediocre major leaguers. The Stephen Strasburgs are the one-in-a million exceptions (...maybe more like one in 50,000 :)).
In short, don't depend on the rookie draft to provide talent for anything but the long term. You'll need to sign free agents with an established major league track record (even if it's a completley unimpressive record) for more immediate needs. ...and of course, you can always try to trade for a player... a fine art in its own right --
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 23, 2013, 09:10:07 AM
Nice summary, Nefaro.
Just to tout the usefulness of the online ootp manual -- if you can stomach it (it's pretty long), it's time well spent, especially regarding all the Contract rules that you have to deal with as a GM. It's critical to know exactly when you can and cannot (without penalty) move players around within your organization. Once you elevate any player to the Majors, even to just the 40-man roster, contract rules start coming into play that are pretty darn complicated. Nef's summary is good though.
I have tried. I read the manual (parts I'm unsure of) pretty regularly. Unfortunately I hav e a pretty bad short memory and the information I take in seldom stays in - meaning when I pick the game up again, it's almost like a new game!
Still - you are correct in that it is helpful and pretty detailed.
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 23, 2013, 09:10:07 AM
But I tend to think of 'getting to the Majors' as a red-line in a player's development, from an economic standpoint. Once a player crosses that line and acquires a major league contract, you have to start paying attention to how you can use him, if he's someone you care about and want to retain. You can keep players entirely in the Minors for a long time -- 6 years, although potentially more depending on whether he's 'protected' on the 40-man roster and has Option years left on his contract.
... it gets pretty complicated !
I think the thing about the rookie draft is: keep expectations low. You're drafting raw talent here, not developed players. There are only a very tiny fraction of rookies who can get to the Majors and be a contributing force within 1-2 years -- these are the Big Time Prospects that everyone knows about and will be snatched up in the first picks of the first round by teams with lousy records. And LOTS of even first pick overall super-prospects never pan out to anything more than completely mediocre major leaguers. The Stephen Strasburgs are the one-in-a million exceptions (...maybe more like one in 50,000 :)).
In short, don't depend on the rookie draft to provide talent for anything but the long term. You'll need to sign free agents with an established major league track record (even if it's a completley unimpressive record) for more immediate needs. ...and of course, you can always try to trade for a player... a fine art in its own right --
That's the impression I got from looking through the draft.
So - at the minute I have a 22 man active roster and a 35 man 40 roster. I have players injured. Do I just keep going until they get better? They are on the Dl list at the moment. But my SP's and MP's are struggling with stamina
Quote from: JudgeDredd on April 23, 2013, 09:20:54 AM
That's the impression I got from looking through the draft.
So - at the minute I have a 22 man active roster and a 35 man 40 roster. I have players injured. Do I just keep going until they get better? They are on the Dl list at the moment. But my SP's and MP's are struggling with stamina
I'd definitely keep active roster always at the full 25 players. Promote 3 players from the 40-man roster to the active roster. Generally a balance of 13 position players and 12 pitchers (5 SP, 7 Relievers) is good. You're definitely handicapping yourself if you don't keep a full active roster -- you'll be seriously screwed if a game goes extra innings. For the 13 position players, I generally have: my 8 starters, a secondary catcher (a must), a utility player who can reasonably play infield positions, another who can reasonably play outfield positions, another serviceable guy in some way (maybe a Lefty or Switch hitter if you're short on those), and a final guy who is good at running the bases and can act as a pinch runner.
As in real life, when your roster is getting hobbled by injuries, you need to get 'warm bodies' on the active roster. Pick up a player off waivers. Sign a Free agent. Trade. Promote minor leaguers. Even if all your options are crap, fill out that active roster!
mmm...all my spares are crap. My 40 man roster is pretty poor. They are mostly 1 or 0.5 stars.
Best I get looking outside and cut some chaff.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on April 23, 2013, 10:10:49 AM
mmm...all my spares are crap. My 40 man roster is pretty poor. They are mostly 1 or 0.5 stars.
Best I get looking outside and cut some chaff.
Out of curiosity, what team are you running? Might make it a bit easier to start with a club that's already fairly well set up, at least until you've really got a handle on drafting and roster management.
Mentioned above - Anaheim Angels
Quote from: JudgeDredd on April 23, 2013, 01:16:32 PM
Mentioned above - Anaheim Angels
Good major league lineup, thin pitching staff. Not a bad team, though. If you're looking for a good team now that's set up for longer term success, you might want to look at the Washington Nationals. The Atlanta Braves are pretty set with a lot of young talent, too.
Sorry - no can do. I'm an Anaheim fan.
I say fan - I'm using the term very loosely. What I mean is, since the very first time of playing baseball sims (Matrix Puresim I think) I have played Anaheim Angels. I have no idea why I started there - but I did. And it's my always go to team.
I'll weather it. It's a challenge and no point in shying away from the issues - I just guess I need to spend some money. I have a fair bit of spare cash, I'm sitting top of the table with an 18-15 and a last 10 of 5-5. I've got a .545 PCT
On the tables shown, what is the "Magic #" column?
Be aware that there is a bug regarding the extra alotted Draftee signing funds. It doesn't show up. So from what I've seen in my first draft, you have to use your extra funding available for Free Agents (which is normally just used as extra if you go over). So money will be tight.
Perhaps they changed the way this works in this year's edition but that was reportedly how it worked last year & doesn't now.
Also.. patch due tomorrow (Wed.).
Sorry - need some help
I have a player on the 40 man roster who was on the disabled list for some time.
I've been notified that he can now be activated from the disabled list.
I go to his profile and I can't see any option to "activate" him. There is a Designate Player for Assignment - but I can't select that unless he's been on Waivers. When I select Waive and Designate Player for Assignment, I'm asked if I'm sure because he will be put on Irrevocable Waivers (which doesn't sound great)...
So I guess my question is - what does "can now be activated from the Disabled List" mean? Do I have to put him on the Active Roster? My Active Roster is full! I simply don't know what to do with him
Any help appreciated (not sure I get the Waiver and Designate player for Assignment so I'm off to read a bit on it)
mmm...I'm pretty sure I went to add him to the 40 man roster and it told me he was already there...but I've just tried it (again I think) and it it let me put him on the 40 man roster...so that's what it means by he can be activated
Reading about the Disabled Lists and the 15/60 day - I guess I must've put him on the 60 day disabled list! I've been using the 60 day DL for players who might be out for longer than the 15 days...therefore moving them off the 40 man roster!
But I get it now...keep a good player who's injured (unless long term) on the 15 day DL and just keep him there - right?
Well...actually I'm still being told the player needs to be activated even though he is also now showing on the 40 Man Roster!?
He's stuck on the DL :-(
Is your Active roster full? If so, you'll probably have to waive & DFA a player -- unless you can outright him to the minors -- to make room.
Hi Sandman
Yeah my active roster is full. Does that mean that "activate the player" means putting on the Active Roster?
I struggle quite a bit with all this Active Roster, Secondary Roster, DFA, Waivers, Disabled Lists.
So if a guy is on my roster and is injured he has to go back onto the roster he went onto the DL from? So a guy injured on the active roster has to go back on the active roster when he's fit and a player on the secondary roster has to go back on that and DOESN'T have to be assigned to the active roster?
I understand that the secondary roster is the "reserves"(?) of my active roster...my key players. But what happens to them moving them off either for any reason (DL, demotion, waiver etc) I am a bit lost.
Managing rosters can be pretty confusing... I thought I knew baseball inside out until I got ootp -- it has really educated me as to what goes into managing player contracts and rosters!
I don't know if this helps -- if this is already completely obvious forgive me -- but conceptually it's easy to misunderstand just what the 40-man Roster is. *Every* player on the 40-man Roster has to be 'playing' at some level in the organization. So a 40-man roster player must either be on the major league Active Roster, or must be playing somewhere in the minors. It can be easy to confuse the 40-man roster for some kind of "pure reserve", but it's actually not that. It's simply *all* the guys on your major league team (whether they are regular starters or not), plus a bunch of guys in the minors who, because they're on the 40-man roster, can be called up and down -- majors to minors and back again -- as much as you want, **so long as they have an option year left on their contract**. If they are out of options, the only way to get a guy *off* your major league squad is to put the player through irrevocable waivers. If they pass waivers, then you can do whatever you want with them (...unless they have enough major-league service time to refuse assignment to the minors...but that's another story ???)
So, it sounds like with this injured player, once you put him back on the 40-man roster, you may have painted yourself into a bit of a corner. He's now on the 40-man roster, so he either (A) has to play on your major league squad, i.e. the 25-man Active Roster or (B) get sent to the minors. If there's no room on your major league Active Roster, you only have one choice: send him to the minors (or send someone else from the 25 to the minors to make room for him). I would have to conclude from this that this player is *out* of options, yes? If so, that's why the only way to Activate him is to get him on a minor league roster, and the only way to do that without having any options left is to Waive the player and hope he clears waivers.
Let me know if this clears it up -- if not, there's got to be a way to figure it out!
Thanks sandman for taking the time to post all that. I really don't get the "options" thing? By that I mean...I guess it means the option to use him in your active roster occasionally and then move out etc...kind of filling gaps? But how many options does a player have? No need to answer that - that isn't really my concern at the mo and I'll read up on that.
You've cleared up that and waivers and DFA...so if a player is out of options (I can't move him to minors) I have to waive and DFA hime...in which case he goes on the waivers list and if he's not "approached"(?) he'll stay with me and I get to DFA him to one of the minors? So I'm guessing I never really want to waive any of my decent players :)
As in this particular case the player is a CF and I've got one on my Active Roster but he's less capable than the one coming back from DL. So I guess I may have promoted the current CF player from the AAA (or AA or A - who knows but likely AAA) when the original CF was injured.
So I'll just demote the current CF.
You've really helped there...thanks a lot.
I love this game - but it's a minefield for anyone who doesn't know anything about it (I literally know about gameplay in RL - and not even that deep...the back office stuff in this is so in depth). I've got the draft occurring soon!
I wish PISD would do a rugby and American Football game - but I guess they're concentrating on what they know.
Thinking about OOTP is more interesting to me at the moment than doing my actual work 8) , so, regarding options --
"Options" are really just a license for the organization to do whatever it likes with a player. "Brand new" players -- rookies you draft etc. -- start out with 3 Options. It basically means you have 3 Seasons in which you can bring that player up to the Majors *and* back to the Minors, as often as you like. The moment you promote a guy who has been in the minors to the Majors, you've just used 1 of the Options on his contract. You now have all season to jerk this guy around without penalty -- bring him up for a few weeks, send him back down, whatever you want. If you do the same thing the following season, you'll use up his 2nd Option, etc.
Putting a guy on Waivers, even a guy you value, is not necessarily a dangerous thing to do. Remember, if any other team claims your player while he's on waivers, they now get the privilege of paying his salary -- he belongs to them, and you are completely freed of his contract. So, if you have a useful guy who, ideally, you wouldn't want to lose, but for whatever reason have to send him to the minors and risk Waivers, it's not a foregone conclusion that another team will claim him -- especially if he has a large contract. In some ways, having a useful but mediocre player with a largish contract -- several million $, say -- is more protection for you when it comes to waivers. Other teams will think twice about just grabbing someone off of waivers if they now have to pick up the tab of his $4M contract (esp. if it's a multi-year contract).
"Designating for Assignment" is kind of a formality. It's only real benefit is that it *immediately* frees up a spot on your roster. It's useful if you need to open up a spot on your 40-man roster right away. You can "Waive and DFA" a player, which immediately opens up a spot on the roster, and gives you 10 days to leave the waived player "in limbo" while you figure out what his assignment will be (...unless someone claims him off waivers...). I believe if you just Waive a player without DFA'ing him, you have to wait for him to clear waivers before his spot on the roster is opened up.
Completely incidentally -- I'm kind of amazed at just how many Europeans play OOTP -- and the fact that the guys who developed it are German! I tend to think of baseball as quintessentially American game with *many* arcane rules that would seem completely uninteresting to folks beyond the Americas & parts of Asia who didn't grow up with it. But maybe more Europeans grow up with it than I realized. I know the Dutch have a solid baseball tradition, but beyond them, I would have figured that the overwhelming attitude of Europeans toward baseball is: this is a very slow, very confusing game that has absolutely no appeal.
Anyway, that just to say I think it's awesome OOTP has the international appeal it does.
^Thanks for all that
It is a slow game - but I do enjoy watching it. A few hours whilst reading a book, a manual, surfing the web or playing a computer/board game - but I enjoy the commentary and the game.
I actually get to watch some games on ESPN America on Virgin Media TV.
I know for a fact I do not have an optimised roster. Nor have I dealt with my depth chart. I really need to have a look at them and sort them out. I might have too many players for one position but not another and I know there are gaps in the lineups
I currently have (on my active roster)
Batters
2 C
3 1B
1 2B
2 3B
1 SS
2 LF
1 CF
1 RF
Pitchers
6 SP
5 MR
1 CL
and I presume some are more taxing than others?
Overall that roster looks good, but having 3 guys whose primary position is 1B is probably not optimal. 1B is by far the easiest infield position to play from a defensive standpoint. Can any of those guys play any other infield positions? For my non-starters, I always want to have a guy who is a good defender at a couple of infield positions -- ideally 2B and SS, and 3B is icing on the cake. Even if that utility guy is a bad hitter -- and he is almost certain to be -- it's essential to have a guy who can fill in and provide good defense in at 2B, SS, and 3B. A utility guy who has good defensive infield ratings at multiple positions and who has some speed on the basepaths is a valuable player, even if he's a terrible hitter. If he's a switch hitter on top of that, that's the trifecta in my book.
Are you going with a 6-man starting rotation? If not, I'd ditch the 6th SP for another reliever. If you are going with a 6-man rotation, well, I'd ask why -- if you have 6 guys good enough to start, I'd trade the excess SP for a decent position player, a good bat.
They can't do other positions. I'll look at my roster but I don't think there's any in the 40 man roster.
I do think I need to seriously look at my roster...check what I have, get rid of chaff.
I have a few more questions...
1. how do I go about buying new players. I know there's free agents etc - but how do I try and pinch someone...and can I at all if they are in contract?
2. the draft is coming up, but they are all n00bs - so only really any good for minors and future prospects
3. should I get rid of players? And if so - do I just drop them or is there a process?
4. How "popualted" should my minors be? I have less than 25 players in the AAA, AA and A
Sorry for all the wuestions...but you've been so helpful with your explanations it's been far better than searching the net
1. If a player is under contract with another team, at any level in their organization, the only way to acquire that player is through a trade, or wait until they become a Free Agent (although that may never happen). You can pick up anyone on waivers with no strings attached, except that you now own that player's contract (and it could be a multi-year contract -- you'd still be responsible for it).
2. I don't have a really good sense yet of the Amateur draft. Basically these are all young players who have to get developed in your minor league system until they are ready for the Majors. The fist 10 players in the first round are the ones everyone wants and will they will cost you, since if they're that highly ranked they will come with a multi-million $ signing bonus. If you don't have a high first round pick, I woudn't worry too much about the draft. Maybe just draft a couple of rounds and then let autopilot take over. It's all a crap shoot at that point anyway. And some of those Top 10 prospects will never pan out.
3. You can always drop any player by outright Releasing him. But you have to pay the entirety of his remaining contract up front. So if you released a player who still had 3 years left on his contract at $2M a year, you'd have to cough up $6M right away.
- so as you can see, there's little incentive to release a player unless you just absolutely have to get rid of him and have the money to cover it. It's almost always prefereable to try to trade that player or let his contract run out and let him become a Free Agent.
4. That sounds like a pretty sparse farm system! I'd use the upcoming draft to fill in some of those gaps in your minors. Also, you can always offer any Free Agent a minor league contract, which *costs nothing* -- so that's nice, and could be another way to pad up your minor league system. But any FA who has any reasonable amount of major league experience is probably not going to want a minor league contract.
edit - oh just one other thing -- if you sign a free agent to a minor league contract, and then put him on your 40 man roster -- ta da -- he now gets a one-year major league contract at the league minimum (which is, what $480K I think). Minor league contracts only stay in effect as long as the player remains in the minors and is not on your 40-man roster.
^Brilliant. Thanks a lot.
I'm going to go messing about with my roster. :D
It depends on the extra SP.
I'm playing with a 6th SP right now, due to one of my originals getting injured (2 months!!) but still using a 5-man rotation. Thing is.. my extra MRs weren't as good as this 6th SP so he's in as an extra reliever who can also swing longer relief due to his better stamina, if needed.
I haven't been piling up a lot of good extra relievers, past the first five or six. Mediocre relievers just aren't worth much IMO, and they're easy to come by on free agency or trades if you really need to dig so deep.
As for 'Player Option Years', I do take those into consideration when signing depth players or deciding just when to bring the younger talent up as replacements. Those 3 option years are a precious commodity on non-starters who have to temporarily fill in. Just remember that once you've brought someone up (as a replacement) that they're "optioned" the whole year, so you can move them between your active roster and the minors for the rest of that year without having to Waiver & DFA them. Use these players that have already been optioned as your fillers for that year so you're not blowing all of your players' options in the same year. This is especially helpful on position players on the secondary (40-man) list who can play more than one position.
One other somewhat related point for you, JD...do not confuse player option years with signing a free agent to a contract with a season (or multiple seasons) being tagged as 'player option'. Totally different things.
-The first one has already been explained.
-The second one means that, for every year you sign a player to as a Player Option, he decided whether or not to come back for that salary. He can outright declare himself a free agent and be gone if he wants to. On the other hand, you can be stuck paying $22 million for a fading vet who sticks around because he knows he isn't going to make that anywhere else.
Thank you all.
I wasn't playing a 6 SP rotation - I had 6 SPs but on a 5 SP rotation. I probably did what Nefaro done (but by accident).
I'm going through my roster now and looking at waivers and free agents and there's not a great deal out there!
Once the season is underway, free agents are going to be very scarce. You can find a guy to maybe be a defensive sub on the bench, but that's it. The waiver wire is constantly in flux, so it's good to make a habit of checking it regularly.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 09, 2013, 04:14:21 PM
Thank you all.
I wasn't playing a 6 SP rotation - I had 6 SPs but on a 5 SP rotation. I probably did what Nefaro done (but by accident).
I'm going through my roster now and looking at waivers and free agents and there's not a great deal out there!
Make sure you don't miss out on the first day of the new season's free agency, when it pops. That's the time to start haggling for the vets whose contracts just expired. I recall accidentally resolving a couple days & missing out on the first bids before I remembered that I needed to check the new FA list. :-[ Getting sidetracked can be easy, even with the Mail notification.
My situation with the non-starting SP was because I didn't have much in the way of decent backup MRs to replace the injured one. But I did have another game where a bunch of relievers played, and they all became tired for the next game so that starter's extra stamina helped out. I've only been keeping 5 MRs lately so that can occasionally happen (I auto-resolve games).