I've made a computer game, Just Tactics. It plays like a wargame / board game + fog of war. It is free to play, so please try it out. It is for Windows and Linux.
This is the website: https://www.justtactics.com/
Here are the rules (and some helpful tutorial videos): http://justtactics.wikia.com/wiki/Just_Tactics_Wiki
If you hate trees, you can download a pdf of the rules and print them out: https://www.justtactics.com/JustTactics_Rulebook_1.0.0.pdf
Just Tactics is medium difficulty / learning curve, and there is no single player or tutorial, so uh, you sort of jump right into the deep end. But, we are all board gamers that have probably played more complicated games than this, you can figure it out by playing a few times with a fellow noob.
I am happy to teach anyone how to play, on the chat client I am 'carnator'. Add me as a friend and chat me up, I will help you learn how to play.
There are not many players in the community now, so definitely either bring a friend or message me, or you might not find a match in the Quickmatch queue.
Once you are hooked by its tactical majesty, you can pay to upgrade your account (gives you the ability to customize your armies and play private matches). Any monies I receive will go towards:
1. Improving the game
2. Making more games
3. Buying burritos that will be stored in my Burrito Vault
4. Buying bacon for immediate consumption.
Board games are great because you play them in person and can socialize and have fun. The groghead community is online and spread all over the globe. An online board game like Just Tactics I think could be great for grogheads because it can let us all play and socialize online, even though we are spread out, and might not ever get a chance to meet and play a war game "IRL."
really. no one? :(
Carnator, don't be discouraged. Most of us have more free minutes here and there to yak about stuff while supposedly doing work (you know who you are... ;)) than time to actually play games. I'll give your game a shot during the weekend. Kudos to you for actually making a game instead of just being part of the background chorus that complains about the lack of games that meet their particular interest. :)
It looks really interesting, carnator. I'm rebuilding a dead server tonight but I'll try and give it a go once I'm recovered from today's hijinks.
Quote from: carnator on May 08, 2013, 07:24:23 PM
really. no one? :(
Yes - I will take a look too.
I watched the video though - may be a little abstract for me but it certainly looks impressive.
Whether I like it or not - well done on your achievement.
Quote from: Staggerwing on May 08, 2013, 07:39:17 PM
Kudos to you for actually making a game instead of just being part of the background chorus that complains about the lack of games that meet their particular interest. :)
Hey, quit talking about me! Now someone go make Imperialism III. ::) ;D
I really don't like to register just to demo.
^Agreed. That's what stopped me.
Quote from: Bismarck on May 09, 2013, 12:32:27 PM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on May 09, 2013, 12:24:32 PM
^Agreed. That's what stopped me.
Great minds, etc.
Okay, well, unfortunately for you non-registering people, the game is online multiplayer...so to demo...you have to register (don't you have a secondary email address for stuff like this?), because to log in and play you need an account...so that you can type your username and log in...
Quote from: Zulu1966 on May 09, 2013, 03:20:30 AM
Quote from: carnator on May 08, 2013, 07:24:23 PM
really. no one? :(
Yes - I will take a look too.
I watched the video though - may be a little abstract for me but it certainly looks impressive.
Whether I like it or not - well done on your achievement.
Thanks Zulu!!!
Quote from: carnator on May 09, 2013, 03:27:45 PM
Quote from: Bismarck on May 09, 2013, 12:32:27 PM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on May 09, 2013, 12:24:32 PM
^Agreed. That's what stopped me.
Great minds, etc.
Okay, well, unfortunately for you non-registering people, the game is online multiplayer...so to demo...you have to register (don't you have a secondary email address for stuff like this?), because to log in and play you need an account...so that you can type your username and log in...
Gotcha..... Ok. I'll have to think on it. I am not a big online MP gamer. I just don't have the time for it.
Good luck in any event! Can't have too many good games out there.
The graphics look very good and the gameplay looks interesting, I don't think its my cup of tea, though.
Now if you remade Age of Rifles, you might find several people around here erecting false idols in your image.
Quote from: carnator on May 08, 2013, 07:24:23 PM
really. no one? :(
Sorry - I did watch the video of gameplay but it's just not my bag.
FWIW you seem to have some good ideas in there - I like the idea of the teleporting units.
Good luck though.
I just played through a couple of games. The intro to the game needs to be smoothed out (I'm going to work up some talking points and share them with the devs).
That said, there is a good game in here. The artwork initially looked like I might not like it, but I quickly got over that. I'm a long way from feeling comfortable playing the game, but I'm sensing some good stuff is in there.
I'm now going back to look at their YouTube vids and will then work up more complete thoughts.
Ok, I'm going to be frank here, you call your game a wargame but, when I go to your web site, I don't see anything I recognize (tanks, ships, aircraft, or troop types for any era). Is it Scifi, fantasy, I have no idea what I'm looking at, and yes, I have a very preset idea of what a wargame is. I know what I like and expect certain things in scifi, fantasy, wargames and I just don't see anything familiar here. I can tell just by the screen shots this isn't a game for me, sorry. As far as on-line games go, of the 20 + on-line games I've tried over the years, there are only 2, I like (World of Tanks & Guild Wars 2), and only one I continue to play (Guild Wars 2). World of Tanks seems to have run out of new ideas/content and become stuck in a rut of (Nerf, Tweak, & Repeat).
Quote from: SgtRock on May 10, 2013, 07:51:29 PM
Ok, I'm going to be frank here, you call your game a wargame but, when I go to your web site, I don't see anything I recognize (tanks, ships, aircraft, or troop types for any era). Is it Scifi, fantasy, I have no idea what I'm looking at, and yes, I have a very preset idea of what a wargame is. I know what I like and expect certain things in scifi, fantasy, wargames and I just don't see anything familiar here. I can tell just by the screen shots this isn't a game for me, sorry. As far as on-line games go, of the 20 + on-line games I've tried over the years, there are only 2, I like (World of Tanks & Guild Wars 2), and only one I continue to play (Guild Wars 2). World of Tanks seems to have run out of new ideas/content and become stuck in a rut of (Nerf, Tweak, & Repeat).
Okay, I grew up playing warhammer 40k (sci fi) and warhammer fantasy battle (fantasy), both of which I consider to be wargames...do you disagree?
Yes.
I think most of us grogs think " historical wargame " when the phrase wargame is used.
I know I have never used the word wargame to describe a fantasy or scifi game, even if it technically fit into the wargame category.
Let's use the name Age of Phasers. While yes it would be a wargame. It just doesn't warm the heart like Age of Rifles.
Quote from: magnus on May 14, 2013, 01:26:37 PM
I think most of us grogs think " historical wargame " when the phrase wargame is used.
I know I have never used the word wargame to describe a fantasy or scifi game, even if it technically fit into the wargame category.
Let's use the name Age of Phasers. While yes it would be a wargame. It just doesn't warm the heart like Age of Rifles.
I don't want to get too bogged down into definitions but IMHO wargames aren't just games with some kind of conflict (i.e. "war"). Instead wargames make some kind of attempt to simulate battle, either historical or contemporary. I suppose we could stretch the definition to include sci-fi games, and under that definition I'd include games like Star Fleet Battles. No, we don't have starships battling about in space at the moment, but Star Fleet Battles makes a good attempt to create what we think such things might look like, including the power management, life support, shields, engines, and weapons systems.
What isn't a wargame? Call of Duty. Empire: Total War. Great games. Not wargames.
That said, y'all are free to call Warhammer a wargame all you want. But if you want a grog's definition, that's my (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FSmilies%2Ftwocents1.gif&hash=125ce75aca93904927751608253f0bfd68039d41)
Quote from: LongBlade on May 14, 2013, 04:19:05 PM
Quote from: magnus on May 14, 2013, 01:26:37 PM
I think most of us grogs think " historical wargame " when the phrase wargame is used.
I know I have never used the word wargame to describe a fantasy or scifi game, even if it technically fit into the wargame category.
Let's use the name Age of Phasers. While yes it would be a wargame. It just doesn't warm the heart like Age of Rifles.
I don't want to get too bogged down into definitions but IMHO wargames aren't just games with some kind of conflict (i.e. "war"). Instead wargames make some kind of attempt to simulate battle, either historical or contemporary. I suppose we could stretch the definition to include sci-fi games, and under that definition I'd include games like Star Fleet Battles. No, we don't have starships battling about in space at the moment, but Star Fleet Battles makes a good attempt to create what we think such things might look like, including the power management, life support, shields, engines, and weapons systems.
What isn't a wargame? Call of Duty. Empire: Total War. Great games. Not wargames.
That said, y'all are free to call Warhammer a wargame all you want. But if you want a grog's definition, that's my (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FSmilies%2Ftwocents1.gif&hash=125ce75aca93904927751608253f0bfd68039d41)
IMO 'wargame' is a general term, which includes Warhammer, Battletech, etcetera. Historical and contemporary wargames are subsets of the wargame genre. "Wargames are generally categorized as historical, hypothetical, fantasy, or science fiction. Historical games by far form the largest group." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming Clearly grogheads are fans of historical wargames and historical wargames come to mind when they hear the word 'wargame'... Anyway. Just Tactics is a turn based tactics game. But, no one really ever uses the classification turn based tactis "tbt", they just call it turn based strategy, but I think turn based strategy is way to loose of a definition (lots of games call themselves tbs, when they really don't have any strategy, they just have tactics). So, I thought, hey, Just Tactics really plays kind of like a table top miniature wargame, except that is on a computer, so I was calling it a wargame. BUT. I will stop if that makes you happy. Turn based tactics. I'll even take 'wargame' off the website when I get around to it. Now, want to give it a shot? NO. :(
Heh. I didn't even start the not a wargame debate this time. Cool. 8)
P.S. I don't know what Just Tactics is about and have no position on whether it is or is not a wargame.
Quote from: carnator on May 14, 2013, 04:28:45 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 14, 2013, 04:19:05 PM
Quote from: magnus on May 14, 2013, 01:26:37 PM
I think most of us grogs think " historical wargame " when the phrase wargame is used.
I know I have never used the word wargame to describe a fantasy or scifi game, even if it technically fit into the wargame category.
Let's use the name Age of Phasers. While yes it would be a wargame. It just doesn't warm the heart like Age of Rifles.
I don't want to get too bogged down into definitions but IMHO wargames aren't just games with some kind of conflict (i.e. "war"). Instead wargames make some kind of attempt to simulate battle, either historical or contemporary. I suppose we could stretch the definition to include sci-fi games, and under that definition I'd include games like Star Fleet Battles. No, we don't have starships battling about in space at the moment, but Star Fleet Battles makes a good attempt to create what we think such things might look like, including the power management, life support, shields, engines, and weapons systems.
What isn't a wargame? Call of Duty. Empire: Total War. Great games. Not wargames.
That said, y'all are free to call Warhammer a wargame all you want. But if you want a grog's definition, that's my (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FSmilies%2Ftwocents1.gif&hash=125ce75aca93904927751608253f0bfd68039d41)
IMO 'wargame' is a general term, which includes Warhammer, Battletech, etcetera. Historical and contemporary wargames are subsets of the wargame genre. "Wargames are generally categorized as historical, hypothetical, fantasy, or science fiction. Historical games by far form the largest group." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming Clearly grogheads are fans of historical wargames and historical wargames come to mind when they hear the word 'wargame'... Anyway. Just Tactics is a turn based tactics game. But, no one really ever uses the classification turn based tactis "tbt", they just call it turn based strategy, but I think turn based strategy is way to loose of a definition (lots of games call themselves tbs, when they really don't have any strategy, they just have tactics). So, I thought, hey, Just Tactics really plays kind of like a table top miniature wargame, except that is on a computer, so I was calling it a wargame. BUT. I will stop if that makes you happy. Turn based tactics. I'll even take 'wargame' off the website when I get around to it. Now, want to give it a shot? NO. :(
Look, if you want some honest feedback - from a "Wargamer" (historical mostly but like a bit of sci fi and fantasy now and then) - for me what puts me off is the abstractness of your units and environment. If you made them identifiable to real world concepts (which is what makes things like Battletech and Warhammer so successful - ie they may be fantasy but can still identify with the "real world") then I think your game would have much more appeal. Make the battle on a planet with woods and rivers etc and the units into say mechs or some other "Real World" sci fi and I would be much more likely to play it. I dont mean this in a derogatory way but you have some pretty funky units in the game. Things like this work if to get people to attch to it - and for me at least I am not going to attach to what I see there.
Switching media - one reason why game of thrones was so successful (at least in series 1 and 2 ) is that it was sword and sorcery but very light on the sorcery part and was essentially a medieval tale with fantasy bits stuck on.
Thats just my take - and likely a lot would disagree - but I think what you have created is excellent its perhaps the skin which would turn people away ....
Well, actually this debate comes up once in a while as we all know too well and I am always wondering why some grogs do not just use a clear set of definitions and instead use what they like to see in a game to define which game is a wargame and which is not.
On our HFC site we have this entry in our glossary:
QuoteWargame
A game in which players put military units in direct conflict with each other. The goal of these games is either annihilation of the opponent's units or the attainment of certain strategic conditions. These types of games will often have high thematic content and a varying degree of abstraction. (see also Miniatures Game)
The term is also used to describe a subcategory within wargaming itself and then it means games on the lower complexity scale as opposed to consims. (see Consim, Simulation)
Co(n)sim
Abbreviation for Conflict Simulation, the more accurate term for what is usually called Wargame. Within wargaming as a whole, it's a subcategory related to those games with more details and more "realism", i.e. games that do portray historical events as close as possible in a game. The opposite would be a "Fun-Wargame", i.e. a game that it's more about fun, simple gameplay etc..
Fun-Wargame
A term sometimes used for very simple wargames. The opposite of a simulation (see also Consim).
http://wargamecenter.wordpress.com/wargaming-glossary/#W (http://wargamecenter.wordpress.com/wargaming-glossary/#W)
And to have a clear definition for our website, regarding reviews and such we chose to define it this way:
QuoteWargames
Wargames, as defined by HFC (only), must meet the following requirements in order to be a "on-topic" game:
the game must deal primarily with a combat, battle, or military operation
the combat or military operation must be situated in a realistic (historical, current or hypothetical) or alternative (fantastic or futuristic) setting
the rules and mechanics must be based on historical, current or hypothetical data which support the setting
tactical and strategical behaviour will result in a representation of events which are congruent with the setting
two or more opposing parties must participate in the setting (historical, current, realistic, fictional, abstract)
by conducting the military operation the game will eventually result in a winning and a losing side
So in this view of course Warhammer is a wargame, a tactical wargame, a squad level wargame whatever, it will depend on the scale. And even Call of Duty is a wargame, you are playing a soldier in a semi-realistic setting and you try to survive and win a match that is supposed to happen in a sort of war. If you would have the options avaialable to you in CoD in a traditional board game, where you are playing a single soldier in the form of a counter and you try to fight on the board while running from hex to hex, I suppose nobody would object calling it a wargame. That you have the same experience but closer to reality by using modern digital gaming sorcery doesn't change the core experience. Even in video games there's the differentiation between levels of wargames. So you have CoD on the wargame side, Battlefield more towards the sim experience and ArmA actually being a sim.
I think it really doesn't matter what textbook definition of a wargame is since regardless a person still may not like the "type" of wargame. In this case, I think several people have stated they dont enjoy a fantasy/sci fi setting, same as me, so it can be called whatever you like but isn't going to change whether people like it or not.
While an interesting sideline discussion (and perhaps one for another thread), I don't know how much arguing about 'what is a wargame' is necessarily helpful. I'm a serious GrogHead. Grew up on the ModQuads, Red Star White Star, PanzerBlitz/Leader, and Squad Leader. Love playing 7 Wonder, Civ V, Carcassonne H&G, and Dominion alongside Tank on Tank, Manouevre, the Warfighter Series, and just about anything from VPG.
Let's try to focus the discussion on improving Carnator's game, rather than chucking rocks at it for what we think it's 'not'. If you don't think he should market it as a wargame, that's fine, but that doesn't help him improve the game. Discussing the application of a better 'theme' and backstory is more helpful.
I found something..
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.tinypic.com%2F9t21xy.jpg&hash=58f6d826e2e98fe9883f6bbb289073e9abd816bb)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tinypic.com%2Fauxbw2.jpg&hash=2cfbd2caa271c1ec566709d210f91e43162d2040)
QuoteI think it really doesn't matter what textbook definition of a wargame is since regardless a person still may not like the "type" of wargame. In this case, I think several people have stated they dont enjoy a fantasy/sci fi setting, same as me, so it can be called whatever you like but isn't going to change whether people like it or not.
The point I was referring to was not whether some folks like Carnator's game or not, based on its theme etc..
QuoteSo, I thought, hey, Just Tactics really plays kind of like a table top miniature wargame, except that is on a computer, so I was calling it a wargame.
So he said why he thinks it's a wargame and then people said no it's not a wargame because it doesn't have tanks in it, it's too abstract, is not in a historical setting, I don't like it etc.. One doesn't have to like it and for my taste it's indeed too abstract, but I thought he's right that it can be called a wargame - and i gave my reasons for it :)
QuoteLet's try to focus the discussion on improving Carnator's game, rather than chucking rocks at it for what we think it's 'not'. If you don't think he should market it as a wargame, that's fine, but that doesn't help him improve the game.
Well, I suppose Carnator thought the wargame community a good place to get people interested in his game, so this side discussion what defines a wargame might indeed help to improve it because it may change how people see the game or it may change the game to bring it closer to what wargamers expect to find it interesting.
If it's going mobile/tablet anytime soon, pitch it to Pocket Tactics - plenty of mobile strategy fans over there!
Also, look towards joining gaming communities who have sizeable strategy game populations, GamerswithJobs, IdleThumbs/Three Moves Ahead etc.. You'll get more exposure and more comments on design/improvements etc.
The units in Just Tactics are a mix of recognizable units and not-so-recognizable units. The mobile artillery piece is recognizable instantly to anyone who's played something like OGRE/GEV and/or WWII/modern era games with tracked, mobile arty.
Other units are something of a puzzle and shoot energy/beam weapons. Regardless, it's worth checking out. I liked what I saw.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 15, 2013, 09:47:15 AM
The units in Just Tactics are a mix of recognizable units and not-so-recognizable units. The mobile artillery piece is recognizable instantly to anyone who's played something like OGRE/GEV and/or WWII/modern era games with tracked, mobile arty.
Other units are something of a puzzle and shoot energy/beam weapons. Regardless, it's worth checking out. I liked what I saw.
Artillery, recognizable...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130123152036%2Fjusttactics%2Fimages%2F0%2F07%2FOntos_300.png&hash=7ead13d4ddac575ec8d84e6a1eeee18793674ff8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130123151819%2Fjusttactics%2Fimages%2F0%2F02%2FMalkara_300.png&hash=1ac90a43a77b4600a554a8ab128406f35b3acb1a)
Okay, now guess what this unit is, it's name is Simo. If you can't get this I give up :)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130123151023%2Fjusttactics%2Fimages%2F2%2F20%2FSimo_300.png&hash=66875174a1eaf664cb2f820bdfac03ce36bc17b9)
I like the artistic design. The sound effects are good, and the gameplay was fun.
He's what I suggest you do to improve your game.
Get someone off the street. Maybe several someones. Fire up the game and let them play. Every time they ask a question, make sure you take copious notes about it - it means something about the game isn't intuitive.
The hardest part about playing this game is getting into it. The interface needs work. Every time you have to explain things to a n00b it means the game didn't do that for you.
I think once you fix that more people will be much more eager to get into this game. Right now, it feels a bit like work to figure it out. You have to *want* to try the game. Try to change that so that n00bs can sit down in front of it and get into it effortlessly.
Good advice!
Sometimes you just have to break away from history and familiar sci-fi notions to come up with new gameplay elements. I think this is what carnator is trying to do.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 15, 2013, 11:31:21 AM
...Every time they ask a question, make sure you take copious notes about it - it means something about the game isn't intuitive.
That sounds so simple and yet is such an important piece of advice - and not necessarily something someone would think of off the top of their head
And it should be an advice board (war)game designers should also listen too...we currently have a wargame in the HFC test lab for review and I would like to pin that advice on the designers forhead, with nails...
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 16, 2013, 01:28:20 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 15, 2013, 11:31:21 AM
...Every time they ask a question, make sure you take copious notes about it - it means something about the game isn't intuitive.
That sounds so simple and yet is such an important piece of advice - and not necessarily something someone would think of off the top of their head
In fairness I learned this from Brant. I can't sleep at a Holiday Inn every night.
Quote
In fairness I learned this from Brant. I can't sleep at a Holiday Inn every night.
... With Brant?!?! :P
Very good design advice. So when do we get you asking questions about Red Storm? (Shamless Plug Alert)
Quote from: Capn Darwin on May 16, 2013, 09:01:15 AM
In fairness I learned this from Brant. I can't sleep at a Holiday Inn every night.
[/quote]
... With Brant?!?! :P
Very good design advice. So when do we get you asking questions about Red Storm? (Shamless Plug Alert)
[/quote]
Hmmm. I'll start working on them.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 16, 2013, 08:53:13 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 16, 2013, 01:28:20 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 15, 2013, 11:31:21 AM
...Every time they ask a question, make sure you take copious notes about it - it means something about the game isn't intuitive.
That sounds so simple and yet is such an important piece of advice - and not necessarily something someone would think of off the top of their head
In fairness I learned this from Brant. I can't sleep at a Holiday Inn every night.
when the hell did I come up with
that nugget of wisdom?
I mean, based on its brilliance I don't doubt it came from me, but I spew so many genius insights that it's hard to keep track of when they all went live. ::)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 16, 2013, 11:38:22 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 16, 2013, 08:53:13 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 16, 2013, 01:28:20 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 15, 2013, 11:31:21 AM
...Every time they ask a question, make sure you take copious notes about it - it means something about the game isn't intuitive.
That sounds so simple and yet is such an important piece of advice - and not necessarily something someone would think of off the top of their head
In fairness I learned this from Brant. I can't sleep at a Holiday Inn every night.
when the hell did I come up with that nugget of wisdom?
I mean, based on its brilliance I don't doubt it came from me, but I spew so many genius insights that it's hard to keep track of when they all went live. ::)
Not sure. I just remember a conversation about getting people in front of a monitor and watching for their reactions to figure out what works and what doesn't. I do know that, brilliant as I am, it's appropriate to share credit where it's due. Even if you don't remember it.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 16, 2013, 11:54:56 AMNot sure. I just remember a conversation about getting people in front of a monitor and watching for their reactions to figure out what works and what doesn't.
I think that was from the discussion about re-doing the user interface from the old WGer site. Which means that despite claims to
not remember what you wrote in November (in the Benghazi thread) you're remembering things I did in 2007 while on a conference call... :o
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 16, 2013, 12:19:59 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 16, 2013, 11:54:56 AMNot sure. I just remember a conversation about getting people in front of a monitor and watching for their reactions to figure out what works and what doesn't.
I think that was from the discussion about re-doing the user interface from the old WGer site. Which means that despite claims to not remember what you wrote in November (in the Benghazi thread) you're remembering things I did in 2007 while on a conference call... :o
I have a fairly imperfect memory. Interactions with Smuck? Easily forgotten. Discussions about improving a UI? Etched in stone.