I'm looking at spending some time getting into a decent fixed-wing sim with some legs. I also want some variety. I was surprsied at how I liked the civilian aspect of Take on Helicopters and it led me to start looking at sims like FSX. From some preliminary research I see that MS Combat Flight Simulator seems to end at 4 and from a lot of the add on's I've been looking at (those at JustFlight.com or Flightsim.com) I want to have a decent selection of aircraft.
In the past I've played a ton of survey sims - Jane's ATF, Jane's USAF, Strike Fighter (first release + platches), in addition to some more detailed sims such as Tornado, Graphsim's F/A-18 Korea and MIG Alley
So am I better off getting into the latest sims from Thidwire and saying screw the civilian side, look at MS Combat Flights Sim 3 0r 4 and the additional aircraft avilable as 3rd party downloads or is a FSX with add-on aircraft a route I should explore?
If anybody can magically answer this I would appreciate it - I know it's a real wide spectrum - Please take pity I've been out of the sim scene for years - as I suspected you notice from the last sims I played ;)
Thirdwire sims are accessible but sim-lite. If you really want to get into the cockpit why not try BMS Falcon 4?
http://www.lockonfiles.com/index.php/topic/36936-falcon-4-bms-info-and-download-link/ (http://www.lockonfiles.com/index.php/topic/36936-falcon-4-bms-info-and-download-link/)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECIj35JCNXQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECIj35JCNXQ)
I am sure that Toonces will have some other suggestions.
Give Rise of Flight a whirl. It's free to play now and what could be simpler than a biplane with one MG and a lawn mower engine?
I mean, if the jackasses at GiantBonb can play it, anyone can.
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-rise-of-flight/17-5746/?full_site=true (http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-rise-of-flight/17-5746/?full_site=true)
By way of contrast, look what happens when they try DCS A-10 Warthog.
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-digital-combat-simulator-a-10c-warthog/17-5490/ (http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-digital-combat-simulator-a-10c-warthog/17-5490/)
It could be that I have some ideas...
I'm going to throw this out there, even though I don't have first hand experience with it. If you're leaning towards FSX, you may want to strongly consider getting an add-on aircraft for it from PMDG. I have been eyeballing their products for years and now that I have a computer that will run FSX I am definitely going to pick up a plane eventually, for example, the 737, 747, or SH-60. I think they have an MD-11 or DC-10 also- I may lean towards one of those since I've always thought the DC-10 was the most kick-ass comercial jet ever. There was one other add-on, not sure if it's PMDG or A2A (I think A2A) called "Queen of the Skies" or something like that. It was an add-on for this older prop airliner, not the Electra but something similar with 4 engines. Anyway, the add-on added stewardesses, a co-pilot, announcements in the cabin, all sorts of stuff. The Youtube video for it totally sold me...but it's a bit of an investment, like $70 or something for both add-ons (the plane and then the additional content). My point, though, is that if you really want to fly like a real airline pilot there are some insane things you can do with FSX...add VATSIM and you can fly with real (simulated) air traffic control all over the place in a plane that is modeled to an extremely high degree of accuracy.
On the military side, there are two sims that are obvious and highly recommended. The first is DCS:A-10. I still don't have this yet. However, I really like the direction DCS is going with their simulation. They are putting together a full land war component that, when implemented, will really give players a very powerful wargame engine under the simulation engine. From what I understand the A-10 is modeled extremely accurately and if you want to do it "right" you will have to invest a significant amount of time to learn the jet and its systems. DCS: Blackshark 2 is also an option if you want to go the egg beater route. I have BS1 and it is pretty impressive, but I really didn't invest the proper amount of time to learn it properly.
The second sim I would highly recommend in BMS Falcon 4. I've been putting some time into it lately and I am very impressed. The F-16 is modeled extremely accurately, almost to DCS standards. A lot of the pesky bugs from previous iterations of Falcon- like air-air refueling for example- have been fixed. It is very stable. Multiplayer is rock solid. They have been putting together persistent "player vs. player" campaigns where you join a team and then can fly for your side on a persistent campaign that runs 24/7 for a week. In fact, I'm joining a virtual fighter squad for the first time for this particular reason. I think that says a lot about the sim considering I've been flying Falcon for going on 13 years and have never really considered going multiplayer. There is a lot of meat in BMS and I think they have some very interesting things in the work for the future...so if you invest the time to properly learn the sim I think you will find it is time well spent.
DCS:A-10 can be downloaded from Steam for $40 for immediate gratification.
BMS Falcon requires the original Falcon 4 CD. If you don't have it, and you definitely want to give Falcon a try, let me know and I might be able to hook you up with what you need from the CD.
Both DCS and BMS presume you have a decent HOTAS. If you're using a little twisty stick, I can't really encourage you to try either. You really need to have a lot of buttons at your fingertips to play those games properly.
If you are into WW1/2, or don't have a HOTAS, two really good-looking games are Cliffs of Dover and Rise of Flight. I haven't played either, although I'm eyeballing RoF and will probably get it going this weekend. RoF is free to download and play, and comes with two planes free. It has a robust DLC market where you can pay and download anything from new planes to gunsights, to paint jobs. Since it's free to get into and try, you might want to give it a go and see how you feel about it before spending any money. I understand that it is fairly difficult to get proficient in, so I think it meets your criteria.
Cliffs of Dover (CloD) has a ton of potential, but has been absolutely blasted for all of the bugs in it. I can't really encourage you to try it unless you have a real passion for the Battle of Britain, and you have enough faith in Oleg to support CloD until it meets its potential.
Thirdwire makes some decent sims with a ton of user-mods available. My favorite is Strike Fighters 2: Vietnam with the complete air and ground war expansion. It doesn't even compare to something like BMS, but can be fun if you're looking for something you can start playing right away. BMS really does require an investment of time before it becomes fun.
I hope that gets you started. With the exception of BMS, I think you can download all of the sims I mentioned so you can get some immediate gratification. A good gameplan might be to download both BMS and RoF so you have two sims you can try for free and evaluate...sort of see if they're what you're looking for.
I've only recently got FSX having used FS9 since it first came out. Its ok, but I'm really waiting to see how well X-Plane10 does.
http://www.x-plane.com/desktop/landing/
If its as good as the hype, then it promises to topple MSFS off the top. A nice mixture of default aircraft available with it as well.
I've been tempted to try Rise of Flight's Gotha but the $15 price tag keeps me at bay. Has anyone tried any
bombing missions? Is there any kind of scoring if one wanted to have a BUFF career WW1 style?
Don't bother with the Gotha unless you have a split throttle. Taking off and landing are murder.
There is a career option but it's pretty generic.
I have a flight yoke with several levers as well as a trim wheel. I'll have to try and find it in my storage area.
Is there any kind of damage recording for score as far as where your bombs land?
Thanks for the help guys.... I have a good starting point now anyway. I may need to upgrade my hardware though - my last serious flight stick was a SUNCOM F-15 Talon and a CH throttle unti - I forget what it was called, regardless both are probably long outta service for the lastest sims and drivers.
Quote from: Staggerwing on March 08, 2012, 02:05:11 PM
I have a flight yoke with several levers as well as a trim wheel. I'll have to try and find it in my storage area.
Is there any kind of damage recording for score as far as where your bombs land?
Its binary. Either you hit something hard enough to kill it or it doesn't count.
I know you originally mentioned fixed-wing but Take on Helicopters is releasing a Hind expansion soon. I haven't played a modern air sim in 20+ years but I may get that because I love Hind helicopters.
I know - I'm on the fence about ToH.....I liked the demo and it looks like fun, but I'm worried about long-term playability. On the upside, what could be better than a HIND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Quote from: Toonces on March 08, 2012, 01:08:40 PM
DCS:A-10 can be downloaded from Steam for $40 for immediate gratification.
I recall reading that DCS A-10 was originally created as a 64-bit program but the Steam version is 32-bit since it has to be integrated with Steam's 32-bit software. So you have to purchase A-10 directly from DCS to get the improved 64-bit version.
Is this true?
FSX is still currently better than X-Plane10.
XP10 needs more development to match FSX in some aspects... namely:
1) Making the world more alive with AI aircraft and ATC (they have these now but they are not functioning properly)
2) Better flight planning options. There's no interface for this and you have to type the way point names manually when you file a flight plan or program the ATC.
3) Quality of add-ons. X-Plane has loads of freeware and payware but their quality is not as good as what you can find for MSFS.
4) Make the scenery more realistic. Majority of airports have no buildings. And cities look like suburbs.
Here's an alternative idea.
Give Microsoft Flight a spin. It only has a small map and is mission-based like Take-On helicopters.
The base game is free but very limited and the planes are not too serious. You need to buy the Maul M-7 and/or the Hawaii adventure pack to make the gaming experience more substatial. An Alaska pack has also been announced.
Take note that a lot of hardcore simmers hate Flight because of the limited world and some kiddy missions (going through hoops and coin collecting). But I kinda like it since it has other serious stuff as well like ferrying people and cargo.
There are still lots of missing stuff in MS Flight. Like ATC, AI, real-world weather, autopilot, and jets.
I have a post about this in my blog. jomnisgames.blogspot.com
I downloaded and installed the demo of Rise of Flight today. Wow, it looks amazing! I can see what some people mean by Rise of Flight gives you a better sense of what it is like to fly a WW1 plane than Over Flanders Fields. It's hard for me to quantify, but I did prefer the feeling of flight better in RoF over OFF.
Anyway, I missed the Amazon.com sale on Cross of Iron edition, but I found it at fspilotshop.com for $10 and I can definitely see me spending a lot more time with this game so I picked it up before it goes back to $40 again.
OFF is a real hassle to run on multi-core machines so unfortunately I think RoF is likely to completely replace it on my new computer. I highly recommend giving it a look if you haven't already.
I don't like ROF. Flight environment is top notch but I just feel it is a soulless mulitplayer dog fighting game.
What's worse is I actaully can't shoot anything down.
Well that's certainly fair enough. I have about 30 minutes of flight time in the game, so it's still very new to me.
The thing is, I really tried to like OFF. I know that it's supposed to be really awesome and immersive. However, I never really found myself thoroughly enjoying it. I don't know enough about the Great Air War to really appreciate a lot of the historical nuances of the campaign. OFF always felt (to me) like it was tacked onto another game (which it was). I can't really describe it, but it was always a feeling that I wasn't playing a game that was designed from the ground up to do what it did.
I hope RoF scratches my WW1 itch. OFF wasn't doing it, although I was (and still am) willing to keep trying. I don't think OFF will run on my new computer anyway, though, which makes the comparison academic really.
I'm a big fan of the Thirdwire sims. The addon community is huge and the game is just sim enough for me. As much as I try to play the DCS sims I own I eventually end up having to pause all the time to remember what button to press.
One of the things I have noticed about my own simming is that I can't keep muscle memory of more than two sims at any one time. For example, I can be heavy into Falcon and Strike Fighters, but then if you add something like DCS:Blackshark into the mix I start to get confused about what keys do what. Building my own controller maps for the different games can mitigate this somewhat because I can assign keys as closely as possible such that the mapping is similar for both sims- this works well for Aces High and Il-2 for example. But for more complex sims like Falcon and DCS it's not really feasible.
The nice thing about really investing yourself in a complex sim like DCS is that there is a great deal of personal reward from mastering something that is so hard, but it does come with a cost. It's similar to WitP in that way, where it really requires a certain level of commitment.
There is a time and place for filler games like Strike Fighters and Aces High where you can essentially plug in and go and I enjoy them for what they are. But I also like to really immerse myself in a complex sim in a particular time frame and really try to learn how to employ the plane in the proper manner for that era. I think that's why RoF is really appealing to me now that I've gotten a little taste of it; I think it will require and reward an investment of my time to learn how to play the game properly.
The first two games I installed on my computer are Skyrim and BMS Falcon, so that tells you where I put BMS Falcon on my priority list.
Currently, the sims I am regularly playing are:
BMS Falcon
Aces High 2
IL-2 (but I am about to shelve it again because try as I might, I just don't enjoy it)
and I suspect Rise of Flight will now take up some time.
I am really thinking hard on DCS:A-10. I don't really see the point with BMS right now, though. I don't like the A-10 and to get the most of A-10 really requires a commitment to a virtual squadron. I'm already fishing for a VA for both BMS and RoF, so I think A-10 might just be too much right now.
Ok, I found that FSX add-on I was talking about. It's by A2A Simulations and it's called B377 Captain of the Ship.
I think it requires 3 separate downloads- the basic package, something else, and then the CotS add-on. I remember that it was fairly pricey when I checked it before.
Anyway, I just read a great review of it on avsim and then found the video where I first saw it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CNjC3Lz32U
I think I have to have this. I can totally see myself bopping around the Caribbean in this thing. Yes...I think I have to have this.
See ya,
Toonces
Quote from: MIGMaster on March 08, 2012, 05:05:21 PM
I know - I'm on the fence about ToH.....I liked the demo and it looks like fun, but I'm worried about long-term playability. On the upside, what could be better than a HIND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Get ArmA II. I've recently gotten back into it. All I'm doing right now us trying to unlock all the goodies in the armory (86% complete thus far) and my favourite platform to complete the armory challenges in is the Hind (followed closely by the Blackshark and the Apache). Flying helis in ArmA is tonnes of fun and you get to blow stuff up real good!
^Is there high difficulty in flying helicopters in ARMA II?
I find it pretty challenging. You really learn to appreciate the gun mount on the Apache after trying to hit anything with the fixed forward firing cannon on the Hind or the Blackshark.
Quote from: Gusington on March 09, 2012, 04:45:44 PM
^Is there high difficulty in flying helicopters in ARMA II?
Flying and tactics are still quite difficult. But weapons operation and targeting is of course simplified.
Take On Helicopters is a more realistic derivative of ARMA helicopter flight.
I used to have D.I.'s Hind Simulator a while back. It's a bit more primitive than today's fare but IIRC you could
land actual troops who would preform missions or evac wounded as well as the usual stuff.
You could chase these guys around the Khyber Pass:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobygames.com%2Fimages%2Fshots%2Fl%2F272974-hind-the-russian-combat-helicopter-simulation-dos-screenshot.png&hash=86aa352cdaee20753879ededd20071195d5e9106)
Oh yes - I had Hind and it was, despite the graphix, a great game. The night missions were very atmospheric, with loads of tracer rounds lighting up the sky.
It was a case of the game play being good enough that the relatively crude (by todays standards) visuals did not detract from the playablility.
Quote from: bob48 on March 10, 2012, 06:50:31 AM
Oh yes - I had Hind and it was, despite the graphix, a great game. The night missions were very atmospheric, with loads of tracer rounds lighting up the sky.
It was a case of the game play being good enough that the relatively crude (by todays standards) visuals did not detract from the playablility.
+1 - I used to love those missions where you escorted the Hips to the LZ !
That pic above frickin' rocks! And I had no idea some of you guys were Hind fans like me! I'm feeling the need to get my hands on a virtual one soon. I hope the Take on Helicopters Hind expansion is quality.
Quote from: Gusington on March 08, 2012, 03:07:35 PM
I know you originally mentioned fixed-wing but Take on Helicopters is releasing a Hind expansion soon. I haven't played a modern air sim in 20+ years but I may get that because I love Hind helicopters.
You should try the modded EECH/EEAH - some good Hind fun there.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3420872/1_14_0_is_out.html#Post3420872
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/13/1/EECH_EEAH.html
^Oh no you DID ENT. Thanks! My main concern with this genre is learning curve and timesink. I like a certain level of depth but after a 6-8 hour investment I like to feel proficient.
^
Just to tease you further:
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/comanche_vs_hokum
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/apache_vs_havoc
Sadly, you just missed a sale on them a few days ago...but still good games at that price!
And one more.... ;)
http://www.simhq.com/_air11/air_342a.html
I quite often find myself flying Tim 'piglet' Conrad's excellent Hind models in both FS9 and FSX, although it lacks the exitement of a a good combat sim, its still fun to fly in and out of historic 'hot-spots'.
Damn all of you! OK so which of these Hind games has the best campaign(s)?
EECH has more campaigns than you can shake a stick at, and it's still very much community-supported.
For the price, I don't see how you can go wrong.
At some point, I will be reinstalling EECH with the Hind mod on my new rig. In fact, I bought EECH from a dude in England (before they had it on GoG) because I had to try that Hind mod. A bit pricey, but worth it IMO.
^And what did you think of it?
EECH is a great game that like toonces says you can't go wrong with for $6. EECH Central has an all in one mod package that is a must have for a budding rotorhead.
http://www.eechcentral.com/ (http://www.eechcentral.com/)
*head explodes*
Thanks for those links guys, especially EECHcentral, I had no idea!
I had picked up Commanche/Hokum awhile back but I thought all the good mods were for Apache/Havoc. Looks like I got some things to download now. :)
Quote from: Gusington on March 10, 2012, 01:36:20 PM
That pic above frickin' rocks! And I had no idea some of you guys were Hind fans like me! I'm feeling the need to get my hands on a virtual one soon. I hope the Take on Helicopters Hind expansion is quality.
The fan's aren't just simmers. Anything look at all familiar about these Old Republic LAATs?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi747.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx120%2FStaggerwing%2F830px-Troopers2-6.jpg&hash=0642407672a3fec02882dcba538e155aff461379)
Just grab ArmA II. It's got lots of Hind goodness (as well as dozens of other helos to play with.)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.armedassault.info%2Fftp%2Fpics%2Faddons%2Fgltmi24napa2.jpg&hash=23ad0b51b84c4407f4e2aca7f370ebef6fb641fc)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.computer-bild.de%2Fimgs%2F2%2F3%2F6%2F7%2F1%2F9%2F6%2FActionspiel-Arma-2-Mil-Mi-24-Gunship-745x419-c7afecb28fccf4e8.jpg&hash=1adaccf970a0f85bba4653e5e9d2596cd404a699)
And lots of Taliban....er....sorry Tajikistanis to blow up if you so desire.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.armedassault.info%2Fftp%2Fpics%2Faddons%2FLoBo_Taliban1.5_1.jpg&hash=db2afcff8c7382b6a94499831943c133d9c4ab49)
Sweet !
Quote from: Toonces on March 10, 2012, 02:12:55 PM
EECH has more campaigns than you can shake a stick at, and it's still very much community-supported.
For the price, I don't see how you can go wrong.
At some point, I will be reinstalling EECH with the Hind mod on my new rig. In fact, I bought EECH from a dude in England (before they had it on GoG) because I had to try that Hind mod. A bit pricey, but worth it IMO.
That big mod for EECH is a must.
I'm sure you guys see the difference in the graphics between the stock pics on GoG and the one in his second post (which is with that mega-mod). The terrain is especially a big leap ahead from stock.
The campaigns in EECH are nice and it seemed like the missions were randomly generated from all the happenings on the campaign map. Kinda like a Falcon 4 campaign but with less bells & whistles. I wasn't terribly enamored of the campaign/map interface but once you figure it out, it's doable. Very target rich environment for sure! There is still an occasional oddity like LOS passing through big hedgerows - so don't try pop-up attacks using that as cover against IR SAMs and AA as they'll just see (and fire) right through them. But for the most part, it's good. I had a fun time flying the Apache. The Hind was interesting but not the agile greyhound the others are, and landing a Ka-52 on the deck of a Russian Helo Cruiser, next to the island with a small crosswind, was quite fun!
It's a nice, easier helo sim than Black Shark. So the learning curve isn't bad. I'd say it's like the Third Wire level of sim difficulty, but for helos (which are a bit more difficult to fly than fixed-wing but I'm talking relatives). If that interests you, then by all means buy the game and
definitely get the mod for it. It adds & fixes a ton of stuff (incl. more campaigns too).
I can't believe I never even heard of this mod before this thread. Staggerwing are you telling me the creators of the mod also work for Lucas? I can't that much cool at once.
Now I'm torn...don't know if I should get ARMA II, Take on Helicopters or EECH...leaning towards EECH with mod but those ARMA pics are delicious.
Quote from: Gusington on March 10, 2012, 10:14:21 PM
I can't believe I never even heard of this mod before this thread. Staggerwing are you telling me the creators of the mod also work for Lucas? I can't that much cool at once.
No no... just that Lucas based the LAAT's (Republic Gunship's) look on the MiL-24 because of it's iconic profile.
^Oh. Buzzkill.
Quote from: Gusington on March 10, 2012, 10:14:21 PM
Now I'm torn...don't know if I should get ARMA II, Take on Helicopters or EECH...leaning towards EECH with mod but those ARMA pics are delicious.
Download ARMA2 for free to try it out (no campaign but you can play missions) and buy EECH from GOG for the campaigns. Then you have the best of both worlds!
http://www.arma2.com/latest-news/arma2-free-announced_en.html (http://www.arma2.com/latest-news/arma2-free-announced_en.html)
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/comanche_vs_hokum (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/comanche_vs_hokum)
If you are feeling flush, you may also want to buy Apache Havoc - two other fine helos that merge in the big mod. Then you have 5 flyables...just on the odd chance you feel the need of variety from the Hind!
Well, I hope Mig has found some interesting info in this thread.
Isn't life amazing right now? Here we've listed dozens of sims and some of them you can fly for free, or practically free, right now with a simple download. And not scrub sims, either, sims like RoF, BMS Falcon, ARMA II...technology is great.
Seems to me that life is really, really good as a simmer right now. There are just so many options from the various eras.
Quote from: Hartford688 on March 11, 2012, 06:57:45 AM
If you are feeling flush, you may also want to buy Apache Havoc - two other fine helos that merge in the big mod. Then you have 5 flyables...just on the odd chance you feel the need of variety from the Hind!
Flyable Apache and Havoc (along with Cobra, Hind, and some others) already comes with the mod for EE:Comanche Hokum. So all you really need is EECH and the mod.
Quote from: Toonces on March 11, 2012, 12:45:21 PM
Well, I hope Mig has found some interesting info in this thread.
Isn't life amazing right now? Here we've listed dozens of sims and some of them you can fly for free, or practically free, right now with a simple download. And not scrub sims, either, sims like RoF, BMS Falcon, ARMA II...technology is great.
Seems to me that life is really, really good as a simmer right now. There are just so many options from the various eras.
Thanks Toonces - I've got some great info outta this thread . Who woulda thunk that sim options would be that great. I'm glad I asked !!! Now I just have to wait for my vacation days to get topped up and get my hands on some new sim hardware - errr.... don't tell my wife 40 Cent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-X
I definitely got some awesome info too, especially since I'm coming back into sim after a 20+ year hiatus :)
Feel good thread of the weekend!
Ok, so I've been flying Rise of Flight multiplayer pretty much exclusively all weekend. I figured out how to shoot video today and took some footage of a dogfight.
So, here's Rise of Flight: http://vimeo.com/38336593
For comparison, here's some campaign footage I took of Over Flanders Fields a few weeks ago. Now, in all fairness, I'm playing RoF on my new blazing rig, while I was playing OFF on my aging laptop. That's not to say I didn't have OFF cranked up, but it's still not exactly a fair comparison.
OFF: http://vimeo.com/37437521
Check six,
Toonces
GOG just released D.I.'s HIND (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/hind)!
Now we can drop Spetsnaz behind Muji lines and medivac our Heroic Soviet Wounded again.
This release made me a happy dude ! I was always such a good shot in this sim - I guess you could say my Hind sight is 20/20 ;)
^...
You guys will have to let me know how it goes with DI Hind. I dunno...it's hard to retrograde back to something like that with EECH's Hind on my HD.
OK. Somebody explain to me what is the difference between the free RoF download and the $50 Iron Cross Rise of Flight edition from Gamersgate.
Quote from: Bison on April 15, 2012, 11:45:32 PM
OK. Somebody explain to me what is the difference between the free RoF download and the $50 Iron Cross Rise of Flight edition from Gamersgate.
The biggest difference is the free version comes with just two planes (Spad 13 and Albatros D.Va). ROF:IC comes with eight (Spad 13, Fokker D.VII, Albatross D.Va, Nieuport 28, SE.5a, Pfalz D.IIIa, Sopwith Camel and Fokker Dr.1). Also, don't spend $50 for the Iron Cross version. It goes on sale semi-regularly for $10 (Amazon, JustFlight, etc) so I'd wait for a sale. You can buy additional planes for the both versions. The planes are frequently on sale form the ROF store.
Quote from: steve58 on April 16, 2012, 07:26:47 AM
Quote from: Bison on April 15, 2012, 11:45:32 PM
OK. Somebody explain to me what is the difference between the free RoF download and the $50 Iron Cross Rise of Flight edition from Gamersgate.
The biggest difference is the free version comes with just two planes (Spad 13 and Albatros D.Va). ROF:IC comes with eight (Spad 13, Fokker D.VII, Albatross D.Va, Nieuport 28, SE.5a, Pfalz D.IIIa, Sopwith Camel and Fokker Dr.1). Also, don't spend $50 for the Iron Cross version. It goes on sale semi-regularly for $10 (Amazon, JustFlight, etc) so I'd wait for a sale. You can buy additional planes for the both versions. The planes are frequently on sale form the ROF store.
Crap. You guys are making me feel like I need to get into a flight sim. Like I have time for another game.
What controllers are the RoF players using? Please link if you can. I've got a cheapo joystick controller, but am going to browse the selection over at the local computer store later on today.
I have two HOTAS set ups. For my higher fidelity sims, I use the aging, but still venerable Saitek X52pro
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fflightcontrols.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F01%2Fsaitek-x52-pro.jpg&hash=25ac9493f7ccae4fdb5f53a9fdb5fbb0090373aa)
For my "lighter" simming or for games in which I technically shouldn't even have a HOTAS, I use a Thrustmaster HOTAS X. This is a budget system that cost like $35. The two components can be connected as pictured or detached and placed separately in more conventional fashion. For the money, its a decent stick.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F0.tqn.com%2Fd%2Fcreate%2F1%2F0%2Fl%2F5%2F7%2F-%2Fthrustmaster-hotas-x-joystick.jpg&hash=edfe349acb8b32b2c70cb1aebddc74ca0d15cf4d)
JH do you use the thrustmaster for RoF? I'm not sure if the local shop will carry it, but they actually have a really good selection of computer accessories.
Quote from: Bison on April 16, 2012, 10:38:23 AM
JH do you use the thrustmaster for RoF? I'm not sure if the local shop will carry it, but they actually have a really good selection of computer accessories.
Yes. I use the TM for RoF. I got mine on amazon.com.
A decent HOTAS will last you a VERY long time, so if you can do the delayed gratification thing, I would strongly recommend finding the HOTAS you want and order it online if your local shop doesn't have it.
I use the CH Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals combo, but that is total overkill for something like RoF (but essential for something like BMS Falcon or DCS A-10). I've heard a lot of great things about the Saitek X52 and I know a lot of folks use it and like it. It's a nice, cheaper alternative to the CH gear.
Finally, for RoF, that HOTAS X looks sweet, although I don't have any experience with it. RoF isn't button intensive (IMO). You need something for rudder control, though...don't know if the X has a twisty stick or if you'll want to invest in some pedals.
If you're going to drop some money, you own it to yourself to do some research on this and get the gear you really want. It makes a huge difference to how much you enjoy your simming. If you don't have a TrackIR, and you're fairly certain you're not going to branch into really complex sims like Falcon or DCS, something like the HOTAS X for $35 would be nice since it will leave you a lot of extra cash for a TrackIR. Frankly, if I don't have my TrackIR, I don't fly flight sims anymore- it's that important.
Also, don't spend $50 on Iron Cross. It's on sale around for $10. I can't remember the exact website I bought my copy from, but if you search on SimHQ's RoF forum, there should be a thread on the first page or so that talks about a website selling RoF Iron Cross for $10. Look towards the end of the thread; you'll see my post- that's the website that still had it for $10 as of a couple of weeks ago. Something like fsshop.com or something like that.
Quote from: Toonces on April 16, 2012, 01:39:57 PM
Also, don't spend $50 on Iron Cross. It's on sale around for $10. I can't remember the exact website I bought my copy from, but if you search on SimHQ's RoF forum, there should be a thread on the first page or so that talks about a website selling RoF Iron Cross for $10. Look towards the end of the thread; you'll see my post- that's the website that still had it for $10 as of a couple of weeks ago. Something like fsshop.com or something like that.
Pretty sure it was on sale for $10 at Amazon, but their sale is over now.
I got the Iron Cross edition for 20.00 but I think it was from GoGamer which is now gone.
Very timely topic for me - I was checking out the HOTAS X the other day.... Now that the kids are a bit older and I have a little more free time it would be nice to get back into sims
The website I got it for $10 was fspilotshop.com, but it's up to $30 again now: http://www.fspilotshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2740&sid=2a0f4d21bd17c6e97543d56956022c49
To be honest, it's still a very good value for $30 in my opinion; there is a TON of gaming you can do with what's included there. However, if you can't stomach $30 right now, you can wait and "eventually" there will be another sale; alternatively you can navigate to RoF's website and purchase any "must have" planes direct for a few bucks apiece. Again, RoF's site has sales periodically- the last one almost all the planes were 50% off and I bought almost everything in their store except the two-engine planes.
Iron Cross for $30 is really a fair price- it's not a bargain, but it provides a lot of value in my opinion.
Well I found my cheapo joystick controller. logtech atk3. I'm not sure if the controller is just garbage and unresponsive or if it's the planes and it's WAD. I found a thrustmaster t16000m at the local shop, but I didn't pull the trigger. I did watch a youtube of a guy playing RoF with one. It looked like it did the job, but honestly I'm a complete flight sim noob and have no idea what to look for in a controller. I'm not going to play anything more complex than RoF, so I don't need the top of the line controller. Maybe this will do all I need it to do? http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/products/t16000m Or is the throttle control really that much of an advantage?
OK. The SPAD 13 plane is a lumbering beast. I think I've got the rudder programed onto the joystick. Right now I'm very, very proficient at spinning into a nose dive and face planting into the ground. What I need is a couple of buttons to more easily control the pilots view. I have no idea 99% of the time where the hell the German pilots are until I'm covered in blood, smoke and oil and nose diving into the ground.
Oh buddy, if you think the SPAD's a lumbering beast, you're in for a world of hurt.
I recently picked up a HOTAS X from Amazon to use with the new Wing Commander Darkest Dawn release but have yet to try it out. Too bad Thrustmaster seems to have stopped making the vibration-enhanced version of their joysticks, which I found to be a nice alternative to force feedback. Anyhway, if the HOTAS X lasts as well as my last Thrustmaster joystick (Top Gun Fox 2 Pro Shock) I will be quite satisfied.
The Spads are some of the more maneuverable WWI era planes! Oh dear.
OK. I might be a horrible pilot. It's possible, but I have yet to pass the sharp turn tutorial trial and the only flying object I was able to put rounds into was a blimp. I crashed shortly afterward.
Are you enjoying yourself?
Absolutely having a blast. Of course all my piloting error is due to a horrible joystick controller! I'm just playing the demo version, but there is clearly a ton of free game here for me. I've go one more stop to make in town today to try and find a good joystick and thruster controller combo. Otherwise I'll be shopping on Amazon and playing with my current joystick.
The biggest issue I have is that there are so many hotkeyed controls that I'm not sure which do what exactly. I mean there is a camera control, which does seemingly the exact same thing as the head control.
And the Spatz is does not seem to have the manuveurablity of the German craft. Well that or the AI on novice level are so much better pilots than I am.
If you're having fun, well...that's all that counts man.
What will really count is me actually hitting another plane with hot lead sending it into a flaming death roll. If I fail in this task, I may need to just play MS Flight were shooting things is not a requirement.
But then you would be a big girl.
I very strongly prefer the German birds to all of the other countries' birds. I get them all confused, but I think the late model Albatross is a sweet plane (Alb DVII or something like that).
Dude, RoF is a very hard game as far as WW1 flight sims go. You really do need a decent stick/throttle/rudder combo.
Also, in case it got lost in the chatter, you should REALLY STRONGLY look into picking up a TrackIR. Like I said, I will NOT play flight sims without it anymore- it is that amazing.
If you can't/don't want to pick up a TrackIR, there is a free alternative called FreeTrack that uses your computer's webcam. I'm sure google will turn that up for you. If you watched that RoF multiplayer clip I posted, that is 100% in TrackIR.
Thanks for the heads-up on Freetrack - I must give it a go !
I picked up a Saitek X52 at the local mom and pop shop this afternoon. It was a little more than I intended to spend, but I figured the investiment will pay off in flight fun and Mechwarrior Online.
Quote from: Bison on April 17, 2012, 06:15:27 PM
I picked up a Saitek X52 at the local mom and pop shop this afternoon. It was a little more than I intended to spend, but I figured the investiment will pay off in flight fun and Mechwarrior Online.
Imagine how much more control you'll have as you're shot down!
Major difference with the HOTUS setup. It's not helping my piloting skills, yet. I am slowly learning that I need to make my movements more subtle and slow with the joystick. I'm finding that I want to over correct the planes movements.
What I really need to do is read the manual for the controllers and the game to better tweek the setup.
QuoteWhat I really need to do is read the manual for the controllers and the game to better tweek the setup.
Don't give in - real men never look at instructions or ask for directions ;)
On a flight sim side note: I've been extremely impressed with Black Shark 2. Feels like a big leap from the original. 8)
I've played the learning to fly campaign about 2 dozen times now. I'm an ace at flying straight and the occassional altitude change, but lord help me if I need to make a hard banking turn...death. Fast, spinning roll of death into the fields of France.