Holy crap, I already lost my first "serious" campaign...and this was on Easy difficulty! Haven't experienced anything like this since MTW/VI.
I think I have to consider myself officially put on notice to take the AI seriously. Love it.
yeah that happened to me - dabbled, enjoyed and then jumped in - then got gloinged by the AI
had to do a bit of research on what to do and how to do it, i was a bit embarassed
'Tis an excellent game. I'm really enjoying Fall of the Samurai :)
Glad to see you are enjoying it Martok.
I just started a new Rise of the Samurai campaign this weekend. I thought things were going well until one of my spy characters got caught, causing my neighbor and all his allies to declare war. I lost most of my trade income and have been fighting a tactical withdrawal as I desperately try to raise a new army. It has been tough but alot of fun.
I think the factions to the south and west are a little easier than the ones in the middle of the map. ROTS has been tougher for me because of the slower pace and I neglected to build a navy from the start, but it's fun anyway. FOTS is my favorite. Gotta love those Gatling guns.
In the interests of full disclosure, I did commit a series of major mistakes (veterans of Shogun 2 will undoubtedly call them a "comedy of errors") that ultimately sank my last campaign ( :P ):
1.) While I defeated the Ogigayatsu army in my territory, I was not quick/aggressive enough in eliminating them entirely. By the time I actually moved into their (last) province of Musashi, the Satomi clan had already destroyed the Ogigayatsu and had taken ownership of Musashi themselves.
2.) Deciding I needed Musashi regardless, I went ahead and attacked the Satomi. The problem with this was two-fold:
3a.) When I declared war on the Satomi, I didn't bother to first check to see if they had any allies...which they did -- the Satake clan.
3b.) Even if I *had* checked, though, I'd still have dismissed have dismissed the Satake as irrelevant. (I mean, it's not as if alliances in previous TW games have really been that useful... ::) )
So you can imagine my (unpleasant) surprise when not only the Satomi appeared with an army to retake Musashi, but the Satake suddenly showed up at my doorstep with a fair-sized army as well -- this, despite the latter already being at war with the Uesgui. :o I quite unexpectedly found myself in the disagreeable position of being caught between two forces -- either of which I could've taken on singly, but not together or in close succession [unless we're talking about RTW]...and my line of retreat was blocked. I immediately tried suing for peace with both clans, but they would have none of it.
So I did what I could: I managed to crush the Satomi, and inflicted serious losses on the Satake; unfortunately, this cost me the destruction of the only real field army I had at the time...along with my best (and only other) general. I frantically rushed reinforcements (led by my daimyo) to the area, but it was too late. All I accomplished was to get my daimyo killed in a hopeless battle to retake Musashi...and with no adult heirs, the mighty Hojo clan disintegrated.
Now admittedly, I didn't play the smartest game -- far from it, in fact. But then I've not *had* to play very smart in this series for ages. (Plus, like I said, I was playing on Easy, for cryin' out loud!)
For all that I'd heard about the improved AI in Shogun 2, I confess I hadn't truly believed it until now. Not that it'll be passing the Turing Test anytime soon, of course, but I gotta give props to the AI programmer(s). For the first time in years, I'm playing a Total War game that actually feels like a genuine challenge. Halle-freaking-lujah!
I also will give credit to CA for bestowing the game with a good sense of atmosphere & immersion. It's still nowhere near as fantastic as the original STW or MTW/VI -- there's something about the old Risk-style maps and parchment-style artwork that gives the aesthete in me a huge metaphorical stiffy -- but the music & artwork are top-notch (no surprise with the former, given they finally brought Jeff back), and the voice-work is very decent as well (it almost sounds like they got the narrator for the original STW to come back for the sequel, although I wouldn't bet money on it).
I don't know if I'll be able to declare Shogun 2 the best game in the Total War series (to date) like some of you fellas have -- I suspect my love of the first two titles may simply be too strongly ingrained to ever be fully overcome -- but I will say it's the first TW game in a decade I've actually had fun playing. At the very least, it's a worthy addition to the franchise, and makes me cautiously optimistic that Rome 2 may just turn out okay.
^Stubborn git! Shogun 2 is one of my favorite games...I have yet to win a campaign in Fall of the Samurai or the original campaign...haven't even tried Rise of the Samurai yet.
This is why I'm so excited about Rome 2
I love the Shogun 2 agents. They allow you to play like a real devious bastard as opposed to a pretend devious bastard. After a few levels of advancement, they can really have an effect on the game. In my current FOTS game, I've got an assassin that's advanced all the way to 6 stars, he's got the cute little devil mask. He's my go-to guy/ stone-cold killer. He never misses. The AI also uses these units very well too.
^+1
Just started to realise what these guys are capable of. Adds a nice dimension to the game.
Yeah man, the agents in FOTS are the most versatile and fun to use of all the TW games, IMHO.
Quote from: Gusington on June 22, 2013, 11:07:59 AM
^Stubborn git! Shogun 2 is one of my favorite games...I have yet to win a campaign in Fall of the Samurai or the original campaign...haven't even tried Rise of the Samurai yet.
What difficulty have you been playing on, btw? Normal? I'm just wondering how much of a challenge I'm really going to face...
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 22, 2013, 01:17:54 PM
I love the Shogun 2 agents.
<snip>
The AI also uses these units very well too.
I've already discovered this, to my cost. It seems like I can barely get any of my own agents trained before they're either assassinated, wounded, or imprisoned. Argh!
Try letting them sit in a city until they pick-up a couple of levels. In FOTS this works pretty quickly. I can't remember if the same works in Shogun 2.
I actally tried that last night, but enemy agents seem to zero in on them and kick 'em in the nuts before they can level up. Not only that, but either the AI is bloody smart or this was a coincient, but the clan that declared war on actually move agents into place outside / near cities and made a fine job of eliminating my leaders.
I guess I should have seen it coming, but it was neatly done.
So I thought my campaign was going very well. After a few road bumps I smoothed things over and I was expanding in a responsible fashion, living within my means, protect my trade routes etc. Then the campaign time reached its limit and I did not hold enough provinces ... it was very demoralizing. I was have fun and slowly expanding. Apparently it was to slow and responsible because the game said I had failed. :) So now I don't know if I just want to continue with the campaign for fun or start a new one and try to 'win' with in the time limit.
One thing that does bother me about
Shogun 2 is how short the campaign is. Personally, I feel 220 turns is not a lot of time to win...particularly since expanding quickly seems to bring disaster (even more so than in the first STW). Anyone else have this issue?
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 22, 2013, 11:27:52 PM
Try letting them sit in a city until they pick-up a couple of levels. In FOTS this works pretty quickly. I can't remember if the same works in Shogun 2.
Well that's what I'm trying now. We'll see how/if it works.
Quote from: bob48 on June 23, 2013, 05:39:02 AM
I actally tried that last night, but enemy agents seem to zero in on them and kick 'em in the nuts before they can level up. Not only that, but either the AI is bloody smart or this was a coincient, but the clan that declared war on actually move agents into place outside / near cities and made a fine job of eliminating my leaders.
I guess I should have seen it coming, but it was neatly done.
I doubt the timing was a coincidence. When I declared war on the Satomi (and unknowingly, the Satake as well), they quickly dispatched agents to take out my own ninja & matsuke. They even tried to bribe my general, although fortunately without success.
Coordinating their military operations with that of their agents is another way in which the AI has impressed me.
Some newer mods have been released to extend the length of the campaigns. You can get them over at TWC.
I play most of my TW campaigns on Normal/Normal...very rarely, I bump up the difficulty.
I have been playing on normal/normal...with darthmod (I must be a gluton for punishment!)
How easy is it to mod the STEAM version of the game since it doesn't have STEAM Workshop yet?
Quote from: Gusington on June 23, 2013, 11:52:25 AM
Some newer mods have been released to extend the length of the campaigns. You can get them over at TWC.
Good to know. I'm not gonna go grab any of those mods yet -- I want to get a better feel for the game's pacing -- but I'm glad the option is there.
Quote from: Gusington on June 23, 2013, 11:52:25 AM
I play most of my TW campaigns on Normal/Normal...very rarely, I bump up the difficulty.
Quote from: Shelldrake on June 23, 2013, 04:05:59 PM
I have been playing on normal/normal...with darthmod (I must be a gluton for punishment!)
That's about the highest I was planning to go as well, at least for the time being. Just seeing how the AI does on Easy, I don't even want to imagine what it's like on Hard or Legendary. :o
Shogun II does have the Steam workshop.
Quote from: Gusington on June 24, 2013, 07:41:57 AM
Shogun II does have the Steam workshop.
Yep.
I thought one of the mods that extends the time limit was in there, too. ???
I remember playing as the Choksabe clan I think, on the Hard/Normal level and was doing great until I hit Realm Divide. Then the game became un-winnable with all my allies/vassals turning against me and my cities flowing with public disorder. So I installed the Darth mod and from a pre-Realm save was able to win against a tough but manageable AI. I grabbed the Trade Ports on the west side of the map and built a large navy to protect them and my income steadily increased. Check your food production every turn and keep your farms upgraded because lack of food will cause public disorder to skyrocket. Even with enough food, public order becomes a problem as the cities get bigger. Before you build anything, check to see what it'll do to your food level. The division between Christianity and Buddism will also cause trouble in your cities.
Realm Divide is one of the few things I would mod in Shogun 2...for me the rest of the game is really strong.
Quote from: Gusington on June 24, 2013, 07:41:57 AM
Shogun II does have the Steam workshop.
Not sure how I missed it. Thanks!
I haven't actually used it...I don't think it's as all-encompassing as the Civ V shop as the code for the game is not as user friendly for modding. But...there are some mods there with some great reputations that I am tempted to try.
Quote from: Gusington on June 24, 2013, 01:35:10 PM
Realm Divide is one of the few things I would mod in Shogun 2...for me the rest of the game is really strong.
That is the major reason that I am using Darthmod which I believe makes it more likely for allies to stick by you when Realm Divide hits.
Exactly. In both Shogun 2 and FOTS, Realm Divide can be survived using Darth.
Shelldrake just kicked my ass in a game of PBEM Commander - The Great War so I don't know what he's afraid of!
Quote from: Shelldrake on June 24, 2013, 07:20:37 PM
That is the major reason that I am using Darthmod which I believe makes it more likely for allies to stick by you when Realm Divide hits.
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 24, 2013, 10:00:12 PM
Exactly. In both Shogun 2 and FOTS, Realm Divide can be survived using Darth.
Can Darthmod be used in conjunction with other mods? (Such as one extending/increasing the number of turns in the campaign?)
Also, what does Darth actually change? I know his mods for previous TW titles are about and/or involve improving AI performance, but how does he accomplish this?
its all the config files for the other nations i think - their range, accuracy, panic threshold, speed, the list is endless and he has a twiddle with them all i think - i dont think he can actually write AI he just adjusts the floor limits and ceilings for what the other guys do
i hope, i dont mean to demean his work if hes a hard core AI writer, but from a lot of his explanations hes in the nation set ups most of the time
Agreed. Darth for Shogun adds a lot of improved stuff already in the game. Like extra garrison units in cities, increased morale for the AI in battles so the AI will come right at you just like in vanilla but they don't break as easily and so almost always survive the charge through your hailstorm of fire to get to melee range. It can make battles a lot more exciting. The campaign AI usually will try to hit your infrastructure with small units on land and sea, and the big armies will react to your movements by withdrawing if it's at a disadvantage. FOTS I tried to draw 2 Obama armies into attacking my 2 armies close to the coast where my navy could support me and they would never bite instead trying to get past my forces toward my un-protected city or withdrawing trying to draw my forces into attacking them next to their city where a large garrison force could fight with them. Darth has always had AI behavior like this in his mods but for Shogun, it's much better.
Personally I don't like the Dartmod changes. I still prefer stock.
Also, are there mods other than Darth that mitigate the effects of Realm Divide?
...Shit, I should really probably just wander over to the Org or TWC and ask this stuff. ::)
I check the Steam Workshop regularly for new mods for Shogun 2 and Skyrim. The Radiuos mod has a lot of changes as well as a whole mess of new units. :-X
Thanks, Sir Slash. I'll check it out.
By the by, something else that bothers me about Shogun 2 (although I suspect it's a feature in ETW and RTW as well -- I just don't remember offhand):
I don't like that when I pause in the middle of combat, the (large-ish & opaque) menu suddenly appears, blocking my view of a sizable chunk of the battlefield. In STW and MTW/VI, pausing the battle simply brings up a small -- and transparent -- "pause" message, thus allowing me to still see everything, which (I didn't realize til now) is something I really appreciate. I wish the main menu would only appear when I hit Escape (which was also the case in STW & MTW/VI).
Is there anything I can do to make the main menu not appear when I pause? It really is rather irritating.
Pause by means of ESC button or via the icon in the Time Compression icon bar?
I haven't tried but can you freeze time using the time compression icons...
I can slow down a battle using the time compression controls, yes, but I can't pause it entirely. If I click the "pause" icon, it still brings up the menu in the middle of my screen -- same if I hit the Escape or P key. :(
Ah ok. So both methods act in the same way.
I don't think there is anything you can do about the pause screen.
Also...for the base game, the Segihara (sp) mod gets a lot of praise.
Mange takk.
Are we playing the same game? :P The pause button in the upper right (minimap) will just show a small box on top.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eenG6Xss9wo/Ucr51rF_XxI/AAAAAAAAFsg/LO8wRndNIhg/w1580-h889-no/Shogun2+2013-06-26+21-45-57-45.jpg)
Yeah, I saw that too...but only when I played a battle in FOTS. If you're playing just regular Shogun 2, you're stuck with that big-ass menu blocking your view. :-\
Quote from: Martok on June 25, 2013, 10:17:56 PM
Also, are there mods other than Darth that mitigate the effects of Realm Divide?
...Shit, I should really probably just wander over to the Org or TWC and ask this stuff. ::)
Yes. There are multiple ones IIRC.
I recall one that pretty much gets rid of the increasing diplo penalties altogether. Another that eases them over time so that everyone doesn't turn on you quite so quickly (a slower, more drawn out divide). I kinda prefer the latter, as my first S2TW vanilla game on Normal resulted in my winning by the skin of my teeth & taking the capital on the next to last turn and holding it from two attacking armies on the last. So I felt pretty rushed in the last few turns and wanted to drag that out a bit.
I'm playing FOTS with Darthmod...have any of you guys had problems modernizing with this mod? I'm stuck at level one with all 4 techs researched. The modernization bar is filled but I never move to level two... Been 5 years. I am building things that increase modernization but without being able to research new tech, I am out of building options. I don't remember this problem in vanilla. I hate to play without darthmod because I love the AI improvements...not to mention I would have to hunt for a mod to turn off the god danged tracers ..seriously, I mean, why would you add tracers in These games?
I steer clear of Darthmod as I find it too often breaks the late game portion of whatever TW title it's modding.
I've had no problems with the techs in Darth/ Fots. You have to be at certain Modernization levels in order to build or do certain things and some buildings take away from the levels as well as affect public order too. Check your Modernization level & see if that's the problem. I've had an occasional crash with Darth but no other problems other than the damned, devious AI.
Yeah...Lol...that is the problem: modernization. My question is why? I cannot advance tech levels because I am not modernizing. The bar is either filled or empty but either way. It Ain't moving. I have built every possible building to increase my modernization but it won't advance to level two
I'm at a loss too. Maybe demolish any buildings that are subtracting from modernization. Or try a new game with a different faction and see if it repeats. I've really had no problems with techs vanilla or darth. :-\
Incidentally, I discovered how to make that big damn pause menu go away during battles: A kind soul over at TWC informed me this is because I had the battles' Realism Mode box checked. Oops!
Sigh. I'd love to be able to go just one day without embarrassing and/or making an ass of myself...
Quote from: Martok on June 28, 2013, 03:30:23 AM
Incidentally, I discovered how to make that big damn pause menu go away during battles: A kind soul over at TWC informed me this is because I had the battles' Realism Mode box checked. Oops!
Sigh. I'd love to be able to go just one day without embarrassing and/or making an ass of myself...
that would be a sad day for the forum - i like that its here for us all to share our daily shame and humiliations
If that's the worst way you're making an ass of yourself you're doing alright.
I never knew that Martok. If you want some real Ass-Making lessons, I'm the man to go to. The thing about Shogun 2 is, how do you get that damned music out of your head?
SHAMEFRUL DISPRAY
Just a drop to cut the dust. 8)
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 27, 2013, 10:07:03 PM
I'm at a loss too. Maybe demolish any buildings that are subtracting from modernization. Or try a new game with a different faction and see if it repeats. I've really had no problems with techs vanilla or darth. :-\
Maybe I will just turn it off and on again...that's my only solution for electronic related problems
Oh Drat! Realm Divide has kicked in my current game (haven't gone this far in a while). I plan to post regular updates in my blog and in this boards.
I think Realm Divide is a fine twist to Total War. People may hate it because it's tough but it sure makes for an interesting game. And it makes so much sense during the Sengoku Era where rival lords are backstabbing each other while holding diplomatic relationships at the same time.
Quote from: jomni on August 31, 2014, 10:42:04 PM
Oh Drat! Realm Divide has kicked in my current game (haven't gone this far in a while). I plan to post regular updates in my blog and in this boards.
I think Realm Divide is a fine twist to Total War. People may hate it because it's tough but it sure makes for an interesting game. And it makes so much sense during the Sengoku Era where rival lords are backstabbing each other while holding diplomatic relationships at the same time.
It makes perfect sense to use it. But the results of the vanilla Realm Divide is rather abrupt and nasty. So much so that even your most steadfast and long-held allies turn against you in almost no time. Even Nobunaga still had a few allied clans who stuck with him to the end IIRC.
So I tend to use one of the mods that reduces the effect enough that the highest rated allies still have a possibility of staying allied, instead of losing all of them every time.
My original daimyo has died in a big battle against the Ikko Ikki. Everyone hates me except for one long time ally who is about to turn against me. Probably shouldn't waste money on him every month anymore and raise troops for the inevitable clash.
I am nearly complete with the victory conditions. I have some 3 small vassals to act as buffers and trade partners.
Realm Divide as a concept never bothered me, but I've long felt its implementation was flawed. It's always felt "gamey" in its unmodded form.
So my long time ally who is the 2nd largest empire captured Kyoto and declared himself Shogun. :/
What's good is that everybody hates me and everybody hates him as well. Looks like a clash is inevitable.
Very interesting game.
I never had that happen when I played-- that another clan claimed Shogun. What clan are you playing as Jomni?
Quote from: Sir Slash on September 03, 2014, 09:30:08 AM
I never had that happen when I played-- that another clan claimed Shogun. What clan are you playing as Jomni?
Uesugi. That is actually a good thing. Because many people are speculating that the AI does not aim to be Shogun. But now I can confirm that the AI is also playing to win and not only playing to annoy you.
Tough clan to play. Hope the Warrior Monks can make the difference for you. I did Shimazu with the Darthmod and had a great time. Love the music in this game.
Im about to dive into this. it was one of the many free games I got with the new build pc parts.
Lots of fun Star-- developing your agents to stab some poor smuck in the back when he or she isn't looking.
I can't see how Star would not like this game, going on artistic aesthetics alone...nevermind the awesome tactical and strategic parts, and the brutal AI.
oh buddy..... with the new rig it looks..... :'( <--- tears of joy.
I bet...one of the most beautiful games ever.
Few things in life are prettier than a line of Two-Handed Katana wielding troops carving their way through the enemy. It's like the prettiest sunset you've ever seen... but with bloody bodies. :)) :)) :))
I recommend the Blood Pack DLC for those wants to see blood and decapitation.
i have enough gaming backlog!!!
retire and move in with Bawb.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on September 05, 2014, 04:42:35 AM
retire and move in with Bawb.
pffft hes all about cardboard and dice these days!
jesus, youve made me want to start up my campaign again
i hate you
No room at the inn with Bawb anyway since I'm already living in his bathtub.
Quote from: Gusington on September 05, 2014, 07:33:12 AM
No room at the inn
you dont happen to be a virgin on a donkey do you?
Depends...who's asking?
im looking at 3 wise men, a carpenter, and a shit load of shepherd
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 05, 2014, 07:37:06 AM
Quote from: Gusington on September 05, 2014, 07:33:12 AM
No room at the inn
you dont happen to be a virgin on a donkey do you?
So long as he's not a virgin
eyeing a donkey, I'm good.
I thought we cleared that up with "Riding" a donkey. You mean you can actually sit on them? :o Who says Grogs can't be informative?
Quote from: Gusington on September 05, 2014, 07:33:12 AM
No room at the inn with Bawb anyway since I'm already living in his bathtub.
Ah, so that's you is it - I thought you were a novelty soap-holder.
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 05, 2014, 06:13:16 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on September 05, 2014, 04:42:35 AM
retire and move in with Bawb.
pffft hes all about cardboard and dice these days!
jesus, youve made me want to start up my campaign again
i hate you
I love counters and maps :-)
However, I will say, at the risk of incurring the wrath of all you Rome II fans (and I do have a copy of Rome II) that Shogun is still, without doubt, my favourite TW game.
But, oh for a 30YW/ECW TW <sigh>
Quote from: bob48 on September 05, 2014, 03:39:41 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 05, 2014, 06:13:16 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on September 05, 2014, 04:42:35 AM
retire and move in with Bawb.
pffft hes all about cardboard and dice these days!
jesus, youve made me want to start up my campaign again
i hate you
I love counters and maps :-)
However, I will say, at the risk of incurring the wrath of all you Rome II fans (and I do have a copy of Rome II) that Shogun is still, without doubt, my favourite TW game.
But, oh for a 30YW/ECW TW <sigh>
Agree with you 100%
Bawb forgive me...but that aint soap.
So my long time ally, the Date clan, who overthrew the Shogun and claimed the title for themselves attacked one of my vassals.
I took the opportunity to declare war against him. We captured Kyoto and a few more lightly defended provinces.
His main army was out to retake Kyoto but failed to kick me out in time so I was able to become Shogun.
The Uesugi clan is now the leader of Japan. Actually our daimyo Kenshin Uesugi died in battle and his son is too young to take the title.
His wife is the "leader" of the clan while his brother did all the fighting. So who is actually the Shogun? I would think it is still the son.
If this were Crusader Kings then this is a good plot for some intrigue within the family.
Definitely one of the better and enjoyable campaigns I had. O0 I will now move on to Rome 2.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/L1FULDHpHDf8F1NnFH_LPD5dwX6i8ZePHe5GtUiCvH4=w1598-h899)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-saU8IXqkOKs/VAqEA5e0mpI/AAAAAAAAIZs/Z-ipaVcwhbk/w1598-h899-no/2014-09-06_00002.jpg)
Quote from: Gusington on September 05, 2014, 06:47:43 PM
Bawb forgive me...but that aint soap.
...and I was rubbing it for ages...........
Me too!
Quote from: bob48 on September 05, 2014, 03:39:41 PM
However, I will say, at the risk of incurring the wrath of all you Rome II fans (and I do have a copy of Rome II) that Shogun is still, without doubt, my favourite TW game.
No wrath here, my friend. I like Rome II more because of the period, but I cheerfully admit that Shogun 2 is a better overall product. In terms of gameplay, balance, AI, and technical performance, the latter has the former beat IMO. I don't see any shame in admitting that.
Quote from: bob48 on September 05, 2014, 03:39:41 PM
But, oh for a 30YW/ECW TW <sigh>
I'm waiting for someone -- anyone -- to produce a decent grand-strategy title set during the Thirty Years War. I don't care if it's CA or someone else.
Quote from: jomni on September 05, 2014, 10:53:10 PM
So my long time ally, the Date clan, who overthrew the Shogun and claimed the title for themselves attacked one of my vassals.
I took the opportunity to declare war against him. We captured Kyoto and a few more lightly defended provinces.
His main army was out to retake Kyoto but failed to kick me out in time so I was able to become Shogun.
The Uesugi clan is now the leader of Japan. Actually our daimyo Kenshin Uesugi died in battle and his son is too young to take the title.
His wife is the "leader" of the clan while his brother did all the fighting. So who is actually the Shogun? I would think it is still the son.
If this were Crusader Kings then this is a good plot for some intrigue within the family.
Definitely one of the better and enjoyable campaigns I had. O0 I will now move on to Rome 2.
Congratulations,
jomni! From both this and your previous descriptions, it does sound like it was a genuinely interesting campaign.