I am just about at the end of my Shogun 2 campaign and mathematically it is almost impossible for me to win within the time alotted. So I will have finished it, but will not have won. Do you consider a campaign unfinished if you are not victorious? Is a campaign only complete if you win? This goes for any game, not just Shogun 2 and not even only electronic games...board games too. Do you think it's fair to claim 'oh yeah I finished the game...but I lost.'
Quote from: Gusington on March 10, 2012, 11:59:24 PM
I am just about at the end of my Shogun 2 campaign and mathematically it is almost impossible for me to win within the time alotted. So I will have finished it, but will not have won. Do you consider a campaign unfinished if you are not victorious? Is a campaign only complete if you win? This goes for any game, not just Shogun 2 and not even only electronic games...board games too. Do you think it's fair to claim 'oh yeah I finished the game...but I lost.'
suck it up buttercup and play it again....
I usually play a game until I beat it or shred it, whichever comes first :)
Quote from: Steelgrave on March 11, 2012, 01:14:19 AM
I usually play a game until I beat it or shred it, whichever comes first :)
+1
I consider a game done when I'm done with it. I rarely play 100% of a game.
Quote from: LongBlade on March 11, 2012, 10:39:39 AM
I consider a game done when I'm done with it. I rarely play 100% of a game.
Agee 100%....can't recall any game that I have actually officially "finished"......which is kind of sad on my part:)
I do finish games, but they have to be incredibly addictive.
Quote from: LongBlade on March 11, 2012, 10:51:33 AM
I do finish games, but they have to be incredibly addictive.
That is my main problem right now, there isn't a single game I find addictive enough to fully complete. Most games get a few weeks of work out of me and then I move on. Just haven't found that special game that keeps my attention for long periods of time.
Game companies love me because of my impulsive behaviors:)
^I second that sentiment.
Some times I want to finish games but there is just not enough there to keep me interested.
Also I like campaigns that have different scenarios so that I can get a sends of finality by finishing a scenario but can continue the campaign by playing the next scenario. (However, I dislike campaign scenarios that are played with no thought or consequence to the next scenario.)
Two of my all-time favorite games are Master of Magic and the original Colonization. I have finished both on a number of occasions, but the number of times I did not finish them accounted for over 90% of the times I played them.
I very rarely play a PC game all the way through.
Yes, I consider a campaign finished, even if I lose it.
Good for you, Gus! Have a Klondike bar!
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 11, 2012, 10:59:45 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on March 11, 2012, 10:51:33 AM
I do finish games, but they have to be incredibly addictive.
That is my main problem right now, there isn't a single game I find addictive enough to fully complete. Most games get a few weeks of work out of me and then I move on. Just haven't found that special game that keeps my attention for long periods of time.
Game companies love me because of my impulsive behaviors:)
I've found that my tastes in game genre or setting change so often that I don't get through many of them, individually.
Quote from: LongBlade on March 11, 2012, 10:39:39 AM
I consider a game done when I'm done with it. I rarely play 100% of a game.
I don't like losing either....
Quote from: Windigo on March 11, 2012, 01:53:28 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on March 11, 2012, 10:39:39 AM
I consider a game done when I'm done with it. I rarely play 100% of a game.
I don't like losing either....
I think most of us would agree we don't like losing
However, I will say that I can respect a game that I can lose to legitimately. I don't like it but I'll give it its due.
Does the lack of interest in finishing games include PBEm or hotseat?
I"m just curious because back in the time of SPI monster games, played in a group that often kept on playing the games to a conclusion even if it was clear that one side could not win.
Partly this may have occurred because we were all pretty into military history. Even if a side could not meet the gam'es victory conditions, we could try and do better tahn the historical side did.
Also, there was a certain amount of guilt. Getting a monster game up, required a lot of organization and commitment.
In the original Drang Nach Osten from GDW, we started with six gamers, and somehow ended up with eight (two had too little time, so had to be replaced.)
There are so many more games to play today, and with decent AI, it is not so hard to get opponents.
Just curious about people's attitudes toward finishing games.
Quote from: Toonces on March 11, 2012, 12:36:23 PM
Yes, I consider a campaign finished, even if I lose it.
Same here. Win or lose, I still consider a campaign to be finished, no matter the outcome.
That being said, I (like most of us here, from the sound of it) only rarely actually "finish" games. I tend to play until I lose the will to do so any longer -- sometimes that means I still get to the end, but more often I don't.
I wouldnt bother. I'd reload an older save where I can continue with a chance of winning.
Great replies...not exactly what I expected either. I expected a lot more 'suck it up and try again' posts like Breezy's. I can't wait to try another Shogun 2 campaign, I just need some more reading to go along with it and its time period. I'm very OCD that way. So in the interim I'll be continuing on my Skyrim, buy FalloutNew Vegas, buy Necrovision, and mod and play NTW. And yes I have companion reading to go along with all of those. But I suppose my OCD with gaming/reading is the topic for another thread...
Quote from: Windigo on March 11, 2012, 01:53:28 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on March 11, 2012, 10:39:39 AM
I consider a game done when I'm done with it. I rarely play 100% of a game.
I don't like losing either....
As with all things, it' relative. I generally play on the default difficulty level, and rarely play games that I struggle to beat.
Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge - I could largely beat on historical settings...with the exception of a fighting withdrawal. For some reason I couldn't get across the bridges. It could be because I pulled back too soon. There the AI beat me, but I chalk it up more to my lack of understanding how the rules work than to the AI clobbering me, but I will allow for the fact that a fighting withdrawal is considered one of the most difficult military maneuvers and I could certainly stand to learn on technique. Even so, given the fact that I received no credit for getting my troops to the withdrawal areas tells me it was more rule related than poor gameplay.
never lost one so far.
Quote from: Keunert on March 12, 2012, 02:38:16 AM
never lost one so far.
So do you just quit campaigns when they start to not go well?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-amIm4f6O34w%2FT0AYeWxLZLI%2FAAAAAAAAAG0%2FdlPWfsJjE6k%2Fs1600%2Fliar.jpg&hash=357fa12e78470b4b09fd545cb4f6f0bdd50a3abf)
Most of the time, if I see I'm losing a single player campaign, I quit. On the rare occasion where I decide to finish even though I'm losing I play to the very end and see the "You have lost" screen I consider that a completed campaign. I may have lost, but I completed the campaign. I chalk that up to 'hey I tried my best and it wasn't good enough'. When I replay that same campaign again I pretend I'm a brand new leader, sort of role playing here.
I also very rarely complete a game because most of the time I lose interest and move on to something else. Here's a list of games that I have completed campaigns in:
- Civ1 through Civ5: completed countless single player campaigns on dozens of random maps with 80% win and 20% loss
- Empire Total War: completed two grand campaigns, with 1 loss and 1 win
- TOAW Century of War: completed the Korean War scenario a few times losing every time no matter which side I picked
- Master of Orion 2: completed a handful of campaigns. I think I lost every one of them. Never could master that game
- V for Victory: Velikiye Luki - played one complete campaign as the Germans and lost
- V for Victory: D-Day - played two campaigns, 1 as USA and 1 as Germany and lost both times
The list goes on with many many more games that I either can't remember ever finishing or never did finish.
I actually finished RTW as all 3 Roman factions and MTW's grand campaign as Spain and Holy Romans. All the other tw's I'm in various stages of campaign completion. I hope to finish them all but I also hope to finish CMBN- Road to Monteborg camp. someday too. The odd thing is, I was working when I finished the RTW & MTW campaigns, now I'm retired and they're left sitting. If I'm not in the mood to play , it seems like work to me. Funny, that's the same thing my wife tells me at night.
^Oh snap!
I play similarly to W8 and Sir Slash. I want to be more like Sir Slash and be closer to retirement, however.
And Keunert is a filthy liar. 'Tis why I love him.
it's hard to keep with my lies when Barthheart beats me each time we go for a game. couldn't you ban him? please?
Perhaps. Let me think about it.
OK no.
TEEHEE
Hey Gus. If you can't beat Shogun 2, maybe when Fall of the Samurai comes out you can just wipe-out all the factions with Gatling fire.
If the game period "ends", for example, after 300 turns, and you have option to "continue" the campaign without added score, whether or not i decide to continue I consider it as a "finished" campaign.
^I was thinking of that as well, most TW games work that way with the 'continue to play' option.
Sir Slash I am trying my hardest not to pre-order Fall of the Samurai or but it on the day of release.
As a matter of fact I made a deal with myself that I wouldn't buy FotS until I beat a regular Shogun 2 campaign. Let's see if I can hold out.
I've haven't even managed to be patient enough to properly start a campaign (not even in vanilla version) in both NTW and Shogun 2. I've haven't even thought of getting FOTS yet. I got bogged down on all the fine mods for the previous TW games which definitely enhance gameplay. The one I've played the most to the "end" is RTW. IMHO i find that the MTW campaign is the longest and the hardest of all TW games.
I have finished campaigns in Shogun, Medieval I, Rome, Medieval II, Empire and Shogun II. I have won in all those games except for Empire and Shogun II. I haven't finished or won any NTW campaigns.
If we're talking about only grand strategy games, I've finished campaigns in Spaceward Ho! IV, Lords of the Realm 2, Birth of the Federation, Shogun Total War, Medieval Total War, Galactic Civilizations 2, and Armada 2526. I can't think of any others off the top of my head.
Of course, if/when a game offers a "lesser/minor" victory (such as in BOTF and MTW), I usually take it. I rarely have the patience to conquer the entire map, as the action after the lesser victory is achieved largley consists of mopping up the remnants.
Hey Gus. I understand when you lose a Shogun 2 campaign, the game forces you to humiliate yourself by wearing one of those giant balloons on your back for the rest of your life. Is this true and do you have to blow it up yourself?
^I will take a picture. I am in winter 1570 now...20 turns to go, so I should be finished this week some time. This is my second Shogun II campaign and I have to say making it to the 'end' is an improvement over my first run where I was eliminated after ~50 turns.
I took a break at the Realm Divide event & plan to get back to it soon. I'm sure there's a balloon in my future.
I have had rebellions breaking out everywhere for at least the last five years but they rarely win because my troops are at badass levels of awesome, even if there are fewer of them. It has however kept me from focusing on taking out the big clans like the Oda. If I could regain focus, and with more time, I could probably win.
I was having real discontent problems in the north as Shimazu where the religious differences were causing conflict. The policemen agents helped alot with unhappy cities. With alot of trade income you can afford to cut taxes to keep people happy and still make a profit.
^That is probably the core of my difficulty right there. The Ikko Ikki do not get police agents, they are inherently different religiously, and rebellions are wrecking my infrastructure. Thus the difficulty. Probably NOT the best choice for my first campaign.
Last few games will play Shogun 2 until the realm divide event triggers, then abandon the game. Find once no one will trade you soon the financial death spiral appears. You must loot cities just to keep from going bankrupt every turn. Which in turn lowers overall morale and leads to nationwide rebellion. Next game might have to try all Ashigaru, avoid elite units with expensive upkeep.
i consider a campaign lost when i begin it.
Quote from: Toonces on March 11, 2012, 12:36:23 PM
Yes, I consider a campaign finished, even if I lose it.
Same for me. I will however try again and again until i manage to win. In some cases i get fed up but i really try to finish games with a victory...i see this as an aknowledgement of the work done by the artists who worked on a game...i wouldn't leave a movie or a book unfinished if i enjoy most of it.
Ouf of interest (for myself), i will mention games i completed (full campaigns and how many times) and do not mention games i have but haven't completed:
- Task Force 1942 (1)
- Fields of Glory (many times)
- Master of Orion (many times)
- Master of Orion 2 (many times)
- Lords of the realm 2 (2)
- Civil War: Generals 1 & 2 (various times)
- Birth of the Federation (many times)
- Imperium Galactica I (1)
- Shogun Total War (2)
- Celtic King: Rage of War (2)
- Conquest: Frontier Wars (1...lost...still trying to finish a victorious campaign).
- Crusader Kings (1)
- Age of Empires (1)
- Far Gate (1)
- Caesar II (1)
- Caesar III (1)
- Galactic Civilization (various times)
- Spartan / Gates of Troy (many times)
- Legion and Chariots of War (many times)
- Rome: Total War (1)
- Star Trek: Elite Force (1)
- Legion Arena (2)
- Lords of the Realm 3 (2)
- Master of Orion III (many times---and many losses)
- Port Royal (1)
- Knights of Honor (many times)
- War of the Ring (1)
- Lord of the Rings: Battle for ME (2: Good and Bad)
- Stronghold 1 &2 (1)
- Castle Strike (1)
- Celtic Kings: Punic Wars (2)
- Glory of the Roman Empire (2)
- Imperium Romanum (1)
- Rising Kingdoms: all 3 campaigns (1)
- Nexus (1 - lost)
- Armada 2526 Supernova (many times)
- Celtic Kings: the great battles of Rome (1)
- Warcraft 3 (all 3 campaigns) (1)
- CivCity: Rome (1)
- Gettysburg (1)
- Star Wars: Empire at War, the 3 campaigns (1)
- XIII (1)
- Ancient Wars: Sparta (1)
- Cossacks 2: Napoleonic Wars (1)
- Imperial Glory (various times)
- Fate of Hellas (1)
- Takeda 2 & 3 (many times)
- Sango 2 (2)
- Strength and Honor 1 & 2 (2 each)
- Golden Horde (1)
- Kings of the Dark Age (1)
- Age of Alexander (1)
- Thorgal (1)
- Starpoint Gemini (1)
- Tin Soldiers: Alexander (1)
- Black Mirror (1)
- Nibiru (1)
- Robin Hood (1)
- Sherlock Holmes (one of the first adventures)(1)
- Haegemonia (1)
- Warlords Battlecry (1)
- Reach for the Stars (many times)
- Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain (various times)
- CSI: Dark Motives (1)
- Sango: The fall of the Hand Dynasty (1)
- Armies of Exigo (1)
- Praetorians (1)
- Alexander (1): games by the makers of cossacks.
- Strategic War in Europe (3)
- Unity of Command (1)
- Star Trek: Armada (1)
- Centurion: defender...(1)
- Civilization 2 & 3 (many games).
- Broken Sword (1)
- Medieval Total War (1)
Holy shit anguille.... I don't think I've played that many games!
Without the need to see the fireworks at the end of the game especially a long one, once I know I can't lose ill move onto another game or another campaign... Have dominated the maps of medieval Europe in mtwII but never finished it... I suppose of these types of games there needs to be an incentive to finish for me.... Civ 2 I hammered because of a 7 year running competition with wife mk1 and although I don't know how I feel about unlocking to advance I finished the first rtw campaign so I could unlock the rest of the factions so it obviously worked for me. The rest of the games I play you don't really finish or it isn't that involved... Cmbn I play skirmish pbem maps and I would never walk away from one of those, I think ckII just runs and runs, I've just started with nwac
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 24, 2012, 05:07:12 AM
Holy shit anguille.... I don't think I've played that many games!
And these are only the games i've finished! :o
please give me a lecture how you manage playing, avoiding divorce and having a job.
i will take notes.
Quote from: Keunert on July 24, 2012, 06:17:29 AM
please give me a lecture how you manage playing, avoiding divorce and having a job.
i will take notes.
+1 ;D
Quote from: TheCommandTent on July 24, 2012, 07:07:39 AM
Quote from: Keunert on July 24, 2012, 06:17:29 AM
please give me a lecture how you manage playing, avoiding divorce and having a job.
i will take notes.
+1 ;D
It helps if you marry a woman who grew up with a brother that's a gamer. ;)
Quote from: Gusington on March 12, 2012, 09:09:55 PM
I have finished campaigns in Shogun, Medieval I, Rome, Medieval II, Empire and Shogun II. I have won in all those games except for Empire and Shogun II. I haven't finished or won any NTW campaigns.
I lose a lot of campaigns pretty quickly because I take big risks early. I rarely win because once things are going my way I tend to lose interest. On the other hand, when playing a good PBEM opponent, I will just beat them til they give up. When playing a poor PBEM opponent (which hasn't happened in about 10 years) I let them get honorable terms (such as on the old ladder system for Panzer Campaigns) since beating somebody once they are going down fast just doesn't interest me.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 24, 2012, 09:05:18 AM
Quote from: Gusington on March 12, 2012, 09:09:55 PM
I have finished campaigns in Shogun, Medieval I, Rome, Medieval II, Empire and Shogun II. I have won in all those games except for Empire and Shogun II. I haven't finished or won any NTW campaigns.
I lose a lot of campaigns pretty quickly because I take big risks early. I rarely win because once things are going my way I tend to lose interest. On the other hand, when playing a good PBEM opponent, I will just beat them til they give up. When playing a poor PBEM opponent (which hasn't happened in about 10 years) I let them get honorable terms (such as on the old ladder system for Panzer Campaigns) since beating somebody once they are going down fast just doesn't interest me.
I have a similar problem to MJ, once I let an opponent pummel my general(s)/admiral(s) senseless they quickly lose interest in playing me again - so I struggle mightily to give them a challenge.