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IRL (In Real Life) => General Discussion => Topic started by: republic on June 30, 2013, 07:40:23 AM

Title: Nuclear Power
Post by: republic on June 30, 2013, 07:40:23 AM
Maybe I'm a dummy, but why are we so leery of nuclear power in the US when thousands of sailors sleep a few feet away from a nuclear reactor for months on end?  There was the fire on the Enterprise in Vietnam and no telling how many Soviet subs that were rear ended with no loss of containment.  Heck we've launched them into space and the Voyagers are still working 30 years later.

So why is my electric bill so high?  Sell me a micro-reactor to put next to my propane tank!
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on June 30, 2013, 08:00:04 AM
Thorium reactors should be the next big thing.  With a properly designed lifter station, it should be easy to set up small, modular reactors fairly quickly.  Thorium is naturally abundant and the waste byproduct is much less nasty than one gets from a uranium reactor.  The Chinese are busy stockpiling reserves of Thorium found in the tailings of their rare earth mines.  The Americans are dumping theirs in lead lined wate pits in Nevada.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: Staggerwing on June 30, 2013, 08:09:43 AM
Micro-reacters actually make more sense since any catastrophe would be mitigated by their small size and fuel content. Large nuclear plants are still a concern (estimates of health effects from Chernobyl are between a low of 6000 and as high as 900,000, depending on the organization making the estimate) and I don't trust any organization to safely manage them in great numbers, business or gov't. Three Mile Island was a very close call, after all ( the core was at critical temp and half the fuel had already melted by the time plant operators were able to bring the temperature down again).
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: republic on June 30, 2013, 08:25:12 AM
Its just annoying than whenever nuclear energy is discussed on the news, they never mention the navy.  Of course at this point, I shouldn't be able to be disappointed any further by the TV news outlets...

I mean the USS San Francisco hit an underwater mountain at 30+ knots with no reactor issue.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maritimequest.com%2Fin_the_news_pages%2Fuss_san_francisco_grounding%2F04_uss_san_francisco_damage.jpg&hash=42ed41bf18048bf01b0047bced368452d5b2785c)
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: GDS_Starfury on June 30, 2013, 09:36:36 AM
Im still amazed that sub didnt sink.
and Im all for nuclear power.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: eyebiter on June 30, 2013, 11:29:21 AM
Why are folks leery of Civilian nuclear power?  Accidents at Fukushima, Chernobyl, or Three Mile island? The NRC allowing a company to build a plant directly over a major fault line @Diablo Canyon?. Having a reactor in Nebraska nearly drown in a flood a few years back?  Or perhaps it's the long term question of what do do with decades of accumulated radioactive waste, some of which has a Half-Life of 10,000+ years.

Going forward there needs to be a major advancement in reactor design away from the water cooled highly radioactive plants of the 1950's and 1960's. Something cleaner, less complex, and without using uranium or plutonium.  Perhaps a hybrid fusion design using deuterium refined from seawater and Helium 3?
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: Staggerwing on June 30, 2013, 12:00:54 PM
Quote from: eyebiter on June 30, 2013, 11:29:21 AM
Helium 3?

Moonbase, FTW!
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on June 30, 2013, 12:25:52 PM
Quote from: republic on June 30, 2013, 08:25:12 AM
Its just annoying than whenever nuclear energy is discussed on the news, they never mention the navy.  Of course at this point, I shouldn't be able to be disappointed any further by the TV news outlets...

I mean the USS San Francisco hit an underwater mountain at 30+ knots with no reactor issue.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maritimequest.com%2Fin_the_news_pages%2Fuss_san_francisco_grounding%2F04_uss_san_francisco_damage.jpg&hash=42ed41bf18048bf01b0047bced368452d5b2785c)

Talk about a broken nose!
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: besilarius on June 30, 2013, 01:07:07 PM
"Ve bild zem gud in Chermany, eh Heinie?" - the Enemy Below
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: Barthheart on June 30, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
The French have been using mostly nuclear power for decades with no problems what so ever.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Country-Profiles/Countries-A-F/France/#.UdDPAcu9KSM
Surely if the French can do it we over here can.

Civilian nuclear power is the way to go. I just don't the frightened little rabbit response either.
Fusion power is a very long way off. Storage of the waste products has been going on underground for years now with no problems.
Title: .
Post by: eyebiter on September 19, 2013, 10:51:45 AM
.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: LongBlade on September 19, 2013, 10:57:39 AM
Quote from: eyebiter on September 19, 2013, 10:51:45 AM
Japan plans to use an ice barrier to contain radioactive ground water at the Fukushima reactor site
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/japan-build-ice-barrier-around-fukushima-nuclear-ruins-8C11067684

You would think that the Japanese would be more careful about mixing nukes and oceans.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toledoblade.com%2Fimage%2F2006%2F08%2F31%2F800x_b1_cCM_z%2FGodzilla-roared-in-a-somber-world.jpg&hash=27bdaffac06c3c4605b2d77432bbfe398cf5d250)
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: airboy on September 19, 2013, 07:54:57 PM
Nuclear reactors with containment vessels (Three Mile Island) are much safer than those without (see USSR).

Still, both those and the Japanese reactor show that a multi billion dollar investment can be ruined.  Nuke plants are more expensive than gas plants or coal plants (despite Obama's wish to kill coal).

But nukes produce less "evil carbon" which the bunny huggers should like - except they don't.

Still, you run the odds of a nuke plant being ruined with a massive drain on cash flow plus the loss of a multi-billion dollar investment and the math does not work right now.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on September 19, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: airboy on September 19, 2013, 07:54:57 PM
Nuclear reactors with containment vessels (Three Mile Island) are much safer than those without (see USSR).

Still, both those and the Japanese reactor show that a multi billion dollar investment can be ruined.  Nuke plants are more expensive than gas plants or coal plants (despite Obama's wish to kill coal).

But nukes produce less "evil carbon" which the bunny huggers should like - except they don't.

Still, you run the odds of a nuke plant being ruined with a massive drain on cash flow plus the loss of a multi-billion dollar investment and the math does not work right now.

Agree.

Let us know when you have a fusion reactor that creates gold.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: Staggerwing on September 20, 2013, 05:11:45 AM
Or Bacon...
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: GDS_Starfury on September 22, 2013, 04:44:13 PM
Gold bacon
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: Windigo on September 25, 2013, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: airboy on September 19, 2013, 07:54:57 PM
Nuclear reactors with containment vessels (Three Mile Island) are much safer than those without (see USSR).

Still, both those and the Japanese reactor show that a multi billion dollar investment can be ruined.  Nuke plants are more expensive than gas plants or coal plants (despite Obama's wish to kill coal).

But nukes produce less "evil carbon" which the bunny huggers should like - except they don't.

Still, you run the odds of a nuke plant being ruined with a massive drain on cash flow plus the loss of a multi-billion dollar investment and the math does not work right now.

the magic of commercial thorium reactors is coming very soon.... 'get with the beat Baggy'


Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: MikeGER on September 26, 2013, 01:33:03 AM
everboy wants cheep nuclear power...
but nobody want to live close to the actual plant anymore (and close can be up to hundreds of klicks in the direction the wind blows most of the year, for very picky realestate buyers with small kids and a 'concerned' mom )

That the French had no accident in the news is either just luck or good OPSEC on operating theirs.
I always regarded the Japanese as very capable when it came to high tech usage, so Fukushima is really puzzling (if the Japanese can fuck up even the Germans can)... It may be the usual mixture of company ever cost saving endeavor and government incompetence in monitoring, but that the way of life is popular in most other modern  countries too....

When i witness all the BS that happens here with the former good trusty German Railroad, i think i am better off with only scientifically and military operated small reactors. (cost doenst matter once authorised with those, and the scientists know what they are doing)

A mixture of off-shore windmills plus pumped storage hydro power station, a little solar stuff at home, and natural gas is the way to go, and lets get rid off imported oil ASAP, so no more blackmail by OPEC and all the medieval-islamo sandni**ers
               
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: GDS_Starfury on September 26, 2013, 01:47:49 AM
To be fair to the Japanese I don't think they planned for an earthquake/tsunami hit like that.  That fell under the shit happens catagory.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: LongBlade on September 26, 2013, 06:21:17 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on September 26, 2013, 01:47:49 AM
To be fair to the Japanese I don't think they planned for an earthquake/tsunami hit like that.  That fell under the shit happens catagory.

Yes, but they did their best to coverup the severity.

There were warning signs. The village there had signs warning people not to build below X point due to tsunami. Sure the last tsunami that big had been 500 years ago. But it's a only nuclear plant, so why worry?
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: DoctorQuest on October 15, 2013, 10:14:21 AM
This might be a problem.....

http://www.omaha.com/article/20131013/NEWS/131019516
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: Windigo on October 15, 2013, 10:19:41 AM
70 million tons of spent fuel???   Ahhhh, I don't think that number is accurate. I know uranium is a dense material, but that number seems out to lunch by a magnitude
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 15, 2013, 10:29:32 AM
What's funny is how few locals realize just how many nuclear reactors there are at any given naval base around the US.

For all it's tree-hugger save-the-earth mentality, how many Californians do you think have a clue how many nuclear reactors are docked in San Diego right now?
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 15, 2013, 10:36:40 AM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc03.deviantart.net%2Ffs27%2Ff%2F2008%2F122%2Ff%2F5%2FNuclear_Wessels_by_TheLilacPilgrim.jpg&hash=d9f8ea8f72cda2ac70c6de969206d1586dffba0a)
Title: Re: Nuclear Power
Post by: DoctorQuest on October 15, 2013, 10:37:16 AM
Quote from: Windigo on October 15, 2013, 10:19:41 AM
70 million tons of spent fuel???   Ahhhh, I don't think that number is accurate. I know uranium is a dense material, but that number seems out to lunch by a magnitude

You may be right on the number but we still have an issue. 
Title: .
Post by: eyebiter on October 15, 2013, 12:15:21 PM
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