The military issued an ultimatum - though they seem to have backed off of it a bit.
Personally, I think they backed off because they're getting ready to act.
QuoteEgypt's powerful military issued an ultimatum to the government and its opposition on Monday: resolve the crisis that has pitted hundreds of thousands of President Mohamed Morsi's opponents against his supporters and brought this country to a political standstill — or the military will announce its own solution.
"The armed forces reiterates its call to meet the demands of the people, and it gives everyone 48 hours as a last chance to carry the burden of the ongoing historic circumstances that the country is going through," military commander Abdel Fatah al-Sissi said on national television a day after huge crowds of Egyptians took to the streets calling for the president's ouster.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/protesters-ransack-muslim-brotherhood-hq-demand-morsis-resignation/2013/07/01/f3f79698-e23c-11e2-a11e-c2ea876a8f30_story.html?hpid=z1
If the military does take power away from Morsi (and that seems to be what they are hinting at), they will probably try and run the country for a few years.
This plot has been tried regularly by the Pakistani military. Would the Egyptian people be agreeable to this, in order to get Morsi and his gang of know-nothings out?
Or would it lead to a true civil war between the Islamists, the "democrats" and the military?
My wife and I are soooooo glad that we got to visit Cairo, the Egyptian Museum and Instanbul prior to the fall of Mubarak and the current protests in Turkey.
Definitely something to keep an eye on.
Quote from: airboy on July 01, 2013, 06:47:50 PM
My wife and I are soooooo glad that we got to visit Cairo, the Egyptian Museum and Instanbul prior to the fall of Mubarak and the current protests in Turkey.
Yeah. It's not likely to become a good tourist attraction until after we let the neutron bombs fly.
Reports are that the coup is on.
Oil over $101 a barrel.
Not looking good...
Quote from: Gusington on July 03, 2013, 01:15:19 PM
Not looking good...
...for Morsi. He's outta there.
Quote
On Wednesday, Gen. Abdel Fatah Said Al-Sisi announced a military coup in Egypt. He said that the Constitution had been suspended, that early elections would take place, and that there would be a "code of ethics" for the media. He stated that the chief of the Constitutional court would be taking charge during a transitional period before another election. He said the new government would be "diverse and include all the people," and that the constitution would be revised to reverse changes made by ousted Muslim Brotherhood President Mohammed Morsi.
live updates, including twitter exceprts, going here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/jul/03/egypt-countdown-army-deadline-live
^One of my favorite off-beat movies of all time! Every time I see one of those little pine trees it makes me chuckle.
It's amazing that Emilio grew up to be the 'normal' brother...
QuoteThe supreme justice of Egypt's Supreme Constitutional Court was sworn in Thursday as the country's interim president after Mohammed Morsi, the country's first democratically elected president, was ousted and reportedly placed in police custody.
Adly Mansour was sworn in at the Constitutional Court in a ceremony broadcast live on state television. Mansour will serve as Egypt's interim leader until a new president is elected. A date for that vote has yet to be set.
Morsi was ousted in what was described by the presidential palace as a "complete military coup." The White House has not labeled Morsi ouster a a coup. Doing so would have U.S. aid implications.
The leader of Egypt's military ousted Morsi from office and replaced him with Mansour late Wednesday evening. The presidential palace immediately branded the move a "complete military coup."
A ranking officer in Egypt's military described the scene to The New York Times. He said, "We are disciplined, and we have the weapons. That's what's on the market right now. Do you see any other solid institution on the scene?"
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/04/egypt-army-ousts-morsi-new-leader-sworn-in/#ixzz2Y50B1CNn
They need to annouunce when the new elections will take place. I feel that will give other countries a lot less to fear. Something to look forward to for Egypt's neighbors, its people and interested world leaders.
Quote from: MetalDog on July 04, 2013, 07:53:24 AM
They need to annouunce when the new elections will take place. I feel that will give other countries a lot less to fear. Something to look forward to for Egypt's neighbors, its people and interested world leaders.
Elections need to take place after numerous secular political parties have had the opportunity to establish themselves.
The big question is when (I hope it's a "whether" but I doubt it) the radicals will start going kinetic and how bad it will get before it gets better.
This is a wonderful sign. If Egypt turns into a real secular, stable democracy then there is hope in the Middle East.
Wonder how the ruling party in Turkey is viewing this?
They won an open, and honest election, but being Islamacists, started to change the secular government. In particular, they got rid of the senior military personnel under the guise of stopping a coup by the military.
There is nothing I've read about friction now between the government and military, but with the demonstrations against their President, due to his arrogant style of rule, how are things in that country?
The Erdogan government in Turkey is concerned their Islamic allies in Egypt were thrown out of office.
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/04/turkey_slams_morsis_military_ouster/
This, and Syria, have been getting a lot of air time lately.
I'm not being smart here- can somebody explain to me why we are so interested in what happens in Egypt and Syria?
I've heard talk of the U.S. "getting involved" in Syria. Why would we even consider that?
Quote from: LongBlade on July 01, 2013, 10:02:43 PM
Quote from: airboy on July 01, 2013, 06:47:50 PM
My wife and I are soooooo glad that we got to visit Cairo, the Egyptian Museum and Instanbul prior to the fall of Mubarak and the current protests in Turkey.
Yeah. It's not likely to become a good tourist attraction until after we let the neutron bombs fly.
why oh why neutron bombs?
So there will still be stuff left over for the tourists to look at.
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 04, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
So there will still be stuff left over for the tourists to look at.
molten sand/glass is cool
Quote from: Toonces on July 04, 2013, 01:55:53 PM
This, and Syria, have been getting a lot of air time lately.
I'm not being smart here- can somebody explain to me why we are so interested in what happens in Egypt and Syria?
I've heard talk of the U.S. "getting involved" in Syria. Why would we even consider that?
All the military aid we give Egypt is one of the reasons
QuoteAt stake for Egypt is $1.5 billion in annual U.S. aid, mostly directed toward the country's military.
Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, issued a stern warning to the military on Wednesday about that money.
"Our law is clear: U.S. aid is cut off when a democratically elected government is deposed by military coup or decree. As we work on the new budget, my committee also will review future aid to the Egyptian government as we wait for a clearer picture," he said.
Still, many Republicans -- despite their deep-rooted skepticism toward foreign aid -- praised the military after the takeover, indicating the U.S. should not abandon the institution.
"The Egyptian military has long been a key partner of the United States and a stabilizing force in the region, and is perhaps the only trusted national institution in Egypt today," House Republican Leader Eric Cantor said.
Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., top Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, urged the administration to "look at the regional picture with our vital national security interests in mind" as it reviews U.S. aid.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/04/obama-hedges-on-morsi-ouster-faces-gop-pressure-to-keep-aid-to-egypt-military/#ixzz2Y6w0hNXY
at the very base of it is that real life makes hypocrits of us all
Quote from: Toonces on July 04, 2013, 01:55:53 PM
This, and Syria, have been getting a lot of air time lately.
I'm not being smart here- can somebody explain to me why we are so interested in what happens in Egypt and Syria?
I've heard talk of the U.S. "getting involved" in Syria. Why would we even consider that?
It's highly unlikely we'll "get involved" in Syria.
Why it's important? Several of our enemies have vested interests in seeing an Assad regime in Syria survive. Ergo, it's in our interest to ensure he does not.
Egypt is important for numerous reasons, but I'll list one and it's maybe not even the best reason: Suez Canal.
Also both countries border Israel, our one steadfast ally in the region.
screw Syria. I wish the best for Egypt.
I think it's just the army preemptively kicking the Muslim brotherhood in the ass over the economic disaster they couldn't give a shit about
pictures from yesterday's "peaceful" protest
h/t Doctrine man
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/988292_629822277050927_716281623_n.jpg)
Are we sure those aren't Israeli sharks?
With the Muslim Brotherhood involved you can be sure that the peaceful protestors had many just agitating for a fight. The security forces eviction action was just the tripwire for violence from those folks.
Quote from: LongBlade on August 14, 2013, 10:57:31 AM
Are we sure those aren't Israeli sharks?
no head mounted lasers.
a very, very good read on historical parallels with Egypt (http://www.intercollegiatereview.com/index.php/2013/08/16/egypts-military-doing-what-the-wehrmacht-should-have-done-in-1933/)
QuoteBernard Lewis predicted this mess when he said that the rush to early elections after the fall of Mubarak would lead, as did similar events in the Weimar Republic, to the ascension of the most dangerous elements society – meaning victory for the Muslim Brotherhood. In an interview with David Horowitz in the Jerusalem Post (February 25, 2011), Lewis cautioned that the discourse in Egypt is still "religiously defined" and that "the language of Western democracy is for the most part newly translated and not intelligible to the great masses." How many Egyptians, for instance, actually believe that Copts and Muslims, men and women, believers and nonbelievers, are equal—to say nothing of Jews and Muslims? Pressing for elections now, he warned, could lead to catastrophe, as only religious parties are well enough organized to take advantage of them. (Lewis preferred first to see the development of local self-governing institutions.) Therefore, he said, "I don't see elections, Western-style, as the answer to the problem. I see it rather as a dangerous aggravation of a problem. The Western-style election...has no relevance at all to the situation in most Middle Eastern countries. It can only lead to one direction, as it did in [Weimar] Germany, for example." He was right. True to form, once in power, the Muslim brotherhood and Morsi went methodically about trying to monopolize power. Morsi assigned himself powers that a Pharaoh would have envied.
and
QuoteIn this struggle for power, some people will win; others will lose, but it is important enough that both sides are willing both to take and to lose lives to reach their objectives. Tut-tutting on the sidelines makes the United States appear ridiculous. Instead of just deploring violence, we should be appraising the character of the moral principles animating the two sides in this conflict and supporting the side that more closely comports with our own. And yes, that may require the choice of a lesser evil.
Unfortunately, the German military did not move against Adolph Hitler when he became Chancellor of Germany in 1933. Had they done so, Europe and the United States would have been spared a world of woe. Had that happened, would the American government have tried to intervene at the time, insisting on a restoration of Hitler, who had been democratically elected by a plurality of the German people? Would we have insisted that our democratic creed required us to do so? These questions answer themselves. We would have been grateful to the German military for doing so. We should likewise have some appreciation for what the Egyptian military has done to save its country and, by the way, preserve U.S. strategic interests in that area of the Middle East.
McCain has been hopping up and down trying to cut off aid to Egypt.
I can't figure out why.
Rand Paul's reasons are clear: we have laws stating we should cut off aid. At least that makes sense and has a remedy: pass a new law. I can't figure out McCain's reasoning at all.
One of the few times I listened to Beck for more than 5 secs in the last couple of years, and he was saying the same thing when Mubarak fell.
Quote from: OJsDad on August 19, 2013, 11:15:44 AM
One of the few times I listened to Beck for more than 5 secs in the last couple of years, and he was saying the same thing when Mubarak fell.
Yeah, it's no surprise. Watching the talking heads on TV pretty quickly revealed that only the bad guys were going to benefit from Mubarak's removal.
Egypt is important internationally for three reasons:
1] Suez Canal
2] Most populous Arab country
3] Borders Israel
I've been to Cairo. It was a "fascinating" interaction of first, second and third world. Some first world things. Many 2nd world things. But you still had donkeys pulling carts on the streets and literally throngs of the poor and illiterate on the streets.
The air was so "special" that I was spitting black for two days afterwards (at sea on the Med).
The "protesters" have spent lots of energy burning Christian churches (primarily Coptic) and homes & businesses owned by Christians.
The only industries of Egypt are transit fees on the Suez Canal & Tourism. I'm guessing that tourism is tanking even more with the current unrest. The guides in Egypt even said (multiple guides) that the rest of the world gave aid to Egypt because the rest of the planet owed so much to the Egyptian culture. No kidding!
Quote from: airboy on August 19, 2013, 06:03:03 PM
The guides in Egypt even said (multiple guides) that the rest of the world gave aid to Egypt because the rest of the planet owed so much to the Egyptian culture. No kidding!
What!? You didn't see Stargate!. Heathen!!!
An Egyptian court has banned the Muslim Brotherhood
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/09/23/world/middleeast/ap-ml-egypt.html?hp
Quote from: mirth on September 23, 2013, 11:51:35 AM
An Egyptian court has banned the Muslim Brotherhood
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/09/23/world/middleeast/ap-ml-egypt.html?hp
hmmmmm, and the consequences/reaction will be.... another crazy-assed asymetrical war
Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?
Another rat's nest mess.
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 23, 2013, 01:14:59 PM
Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?
Another rat's nest mess.
its clear we don't like democratically elected Muslim govts.
Quote from: Windigo on September 23, 2013, 07:39:30 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 23, 2013, 01:14:59 PM
Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?
Another rat's nest mess.
its clear we don't like democratically elected Muslim govts.
Really Windi? You think it's as simple as that?
dictators seem to be more stable.
Quote from: mirth on September 23, 2013, 10:00:42 PM
Quote from: Windigo on September 23, 2013, 07:39:30 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 23, 2013, 01:14:59 PM
Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?
Another rat's nest mess.
its clear we don't like democratically elected Muslim govts.
Really Windi? You think it's as simple as that?
I guess droll gets lost....
what's the f'ing point of have a democracy in an Arab country if the first damn thing the bumblefug electorate do is vote in a population suppressing fundamentalist party that promptly starts to strip away freedoms??
they think they want it, but really?
Fug'em.... walk away
Quote from: Windigo on September 24, 2013, 01:29:39 AM
Quote from: mirth on September 23, 2013, 10:00:42 PM
Quote from: Windigo on September 23, 2013, 07:39:30 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 23, 2013, 01:14:59 PM
Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?
Another rat's nest mess.
its clear we don't like democratically elected Muslim govts.
Really Windi? You think it's as simple as that?
I guess droll gets lost....
what's the f'ing point of have a democracy in an Arab country if the first damn thing the bumblefug electorate do is vote in a population suppressing fundamentalist party that promptly starts to strip away freedoms??
they think they want it, but really?
Fug'em.... walk away
Their biggest problem is their whole society revolves around the past, as in their book. Imagine if they had science fiction or anything looking forward. They they would not be so 'F this shit, time to blow something up'. They would be thinking forward to the possibilities of a future society. Instead they try to pretend all the answers were already given. Then they cant square that with how pathetic their lives are. Then they take it out on everyone else.
Until we start nuking there goats and donkeys 8)
Quote from: Windigo on September 24, 2013, 11:02:32 PM
Until we start nuking there goats and donkeys 8)
If their goats develop VD they will be too busy scratching to mount coordinated attacks.
now thats a very interesting strategy there.
Quote from: Toonces on July 04, 2013, 01:55:53 PM
This, and Syria, have been getting a lot of air time lately.
I'm not being smart here- can somebody explain to me why we are so interested in what happens in Egypt and Syria?
I've heard talk of the U.S. "getting involved" in Syria. Why would we even consider that?
Because they are political players in an economically important part of the world, with large populations in a sectarian flux. The ripples of what happens can ultimately affect you and yours.
Quote from: Toonces on July 04, 2013, 01:55:53 PM
I've heard talk of the U.S. "getting involved" in Syria. Why would we even consider that?
A very good question. When it's thought through, I also wonder why the US would want to help Al Quada to overthrow the regime, and enable AQ to fill the political void? I'd have thought it was in the US interest to exterminate the AQ threat wherever it appears, rather than provide practical help to them. But what do I know...
The US seems to be happy to ignore the genocide of Christians in the Sudanese Nuba Mountains by Pres. Al Bashir of Sudan, but for some reason is outraged when muslims get killed in Syria, and feel the need to take the side heavily supported by AQ. Weird? I feel for the innocent civilians caught up in both wars, but the double standards are disturbing. I don't suppose that AQ will have any qualms about using any weapons acquired from US sources in the West or against US nationals at a later stage, so like you I just don't get why the US wants to intervene and by implication help these people achieve their goals.
Quote from: Windigo on September 24, 2013, 01:29:39 AM
Quote from: mirth on September 23, 2013, 10:00:42 PM
Quote from: Windigo on September 23, 2013, 07:39:30 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 23, 2013, 01:14:59 PM
Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?
Another rat's nest mess.
its clear we don't like democratically elected Muslim govts.
Really Windi? You think it's as simple as that?
I guess droll gets lost....
what's the f'ing point of have a democracy in an Arab country if the first damn thing the bumblefug electorate do is vote in a population suppressing fundamentalist party that promptly starts to strip away freedoms??
they think they want it, but really?
Fug'em.... walk away
To be fair, they were given the choice between two candidates - Morsi, and Mubarak's man. The moderates didn't like Morsi, but certainly didn't want Mubarak's regime returned. So they gave Morsi the benefit of the doubt. He abused his position, and was forced out.
Morsi's supporters are a substantial minority, but still a minority. The demographics of Morsi support are overwhelmingly from the poor and uneducated, who are easier to manipulate with islamist propaganda. The Egyptian middle classes, and aspirational young have much more to gain from a secular state. Those are the people who need the support of the West to stop the growth of islamofascism.