Not Guilty!
let the riots begin. ::)
not sure what the murder statute in fla states but it seems the states attorneys made a huge tactical mistake in going for a murder charge. i guess they thought the national attention and high emotions would carry them to a guilty verdict. seems a second degree or manslaughter charge would have been more appropriate and easier to prove.
Hmm...I hope there's no riots.
manslaughter was an option that the judge gave the jury
If there are riots, they need to send the bill to Al Sharpton. The tiny amount of respect that I still have for our judicial system has been bolstered by this verdict. Despite bending the rules every which way they could, despite a judge who should be investigated and sanctioned, despite a DA withholding evidence until the last minute, despite overcharging, political interference, and being tried and found guilty by MSNBC....the jury reached the correct verdict.
I'm almost stunned.
"The prosecution failed to convince the jury that Zimmerman had "a depraved mind without regard for human life" when he shot Martin, which was required for second-degree murder. A lesser manslaughter conviction could have been handed down if the jury believed Zimmerman had no lawful reason to kill Martin, even if he bore Martin no ill will. The law says if Zimmerman had a "reasonable" belief that his own life was in jeopardy or that he could suffer bodily harm from Martin, he was justified in killing him." pulled from yahoo story.
i stand corrected. he was charged with 2nd degree murder and manslaughter was an option. i still say they made a huge mistake. there was a struggle, doesnt matter why but there was. prosecution should have went for some type of accidental death charge. self defense defense and a struggle. did they really think they could get a conviction on either charge? i bet they hoped zimmerman would take a plea deal and when he didnt they were kinda stuck with going ahead with what they did.
im sure the family will sue zimmerman and probably win. didnt the brown family sue OJ and win even though he was found not guilty in criminal court??
I was thinking about that as well. 'A preponderance of the evidence' can be easier to establish than 'beyond any reasonable doubt'.
Notice the Florida IT guy who gave suppressed evidence to the Zimmerman defence team got canned on Friday. Coincidence?
In a civil trial, it is unlikely that Zimmerman will have the deck stacked against him quite as strongly. Plus much of the evidence which was withheld would likely be admissible, so pawning Martin off as an innocent kid won't be as easy. I'm the first to say that anything can happen inside a courtroom, but this case was given to the prosecution with bases loaded and the jury still found Zimmerman innocent. So I'm not as sure that a civil case would be automatic.
And if I'm Zimmerman, the fired IT guy is first on my witness list!
Quote from: CptHowdy on July 13, 2013, 09:53:13 PMim sure the family will sue zimmerman and probably win.
based on what (little) I know of civil trials, they'll probably win, too. If Zimmerman stays in his truck and drives the other way, Martin doesn't get shot. They'll play that to the judge/jury to show that Zimmerman's actions likely cased Martin's death. The thing is, they're probably right. Doesn't make him guilty of murder, but Zimmerman had the choice to leave the scene and chose not to take it.
Zimmerman was a participant in a police-sponsored neighborhood watch program. It's not like he was leaving the 7-11 at the same time and just decided to follow Martin :P I'm sure a civil trial will be forthcoming, I'm far from sure it's a slam dunk.
Of course, given the politicalization of this case from the start, a civil case may not be Zimmerman's next obstacle.....
NAACP Chairman Roslyn M. Brock: "Today, justice failed Trayvon Martin and his family. We call immediately for the Justice Department to conduct an investigation into the civil rights violations committed against Trayvon Martin. This case has re-energized the movement to end racial profiling in the United States."
NAACP President Benjamin Todd Jealous: "We are outraged and heartbroken over today's verdict. We stand with Trayvon's family and we are called to act. We will pursue civil rights charges with the Department of Justice, we will continue to fight for the removal of Stand Your Ground laws in every state, and we will not rest until racial profiling in all its forms is outlawed.
Oh yeah, let's get the "Justice" Department involved...well, I mean more involved than they've already been >:(
And you know....the talking heads keep referring to Florida's Stand Your Ground Law....even though it specifically was not used in the Zimmerman defense! Stupid, just stupid.
Quote from: OJsDad on July 13, 2013, 09:01:58 PM
Not Guilty!
Good. I'll admit to being pleasantly surprised by the verdict, but I'm not complaining.
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 13, 2013, 10:35:47 PM
Of course, given the politicalization of this case from the start, a civil case may not be Zimmerman's next obstacle.....
NAACP Chairman Roslyn M. Brock: "Today, justice failed Trayvon Martin and his family. We call immediately for the Justice Department to conduct an investigation into the civil rights violations committed against Trayvon Martin. This case has re-energized the movement to end racial profiling in the United States."
NAACP President Benjamin Todd Jealous: "We are outraged and heartbroken over today's verdict. We stand with Trayvon's family and we are called to act. We will pursue civil rights charges with the Department of Justice, we will continue to fight for the removal of Stand Your Ground laws in every state, and we will not rest until racial profiling in all its forms is outlawed.
::)
It is good to see that the jury was able to handle this in an impartial way. Once the trail started and we could all see the facts straight from the source without the media spinning everything and making assumptions I believe there was more than reasonable doubt to find him innocent of murder. This is further reinforced by the fact that they didn't even come back with a manslaughter charge when it was on the table. But than again I'm a WASP so my opinion is worth nothing and I am automatically a racist. ::)
I'm wondering if a civil lawsuit against Zimmerman will gain much traction, simply because he could counter sue for being attacked and suffering mental, physical, and financial distress from it. Both parties then agree to drop their suits.
It is disgusting that the NAACP is pressuring the FEDERAL government to conduct a civil rights investigation into this matter. You know what? Eric Holder is just dumb enough to think he has the authority to do it, too.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2013, 01:22:00 PM
It is disgusting that the NAACP is pressuring the FEDERAL government to conduct a civil rights investigation into this matter. You know what? Eric Holder is just dumb enough to think he has the authority to do it, too.
I don't think it will take too much pressure on Holder to make a move.
So Obama has now issued a statement saying that we can honor the memory of Treyvon Martin by "doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence". No irony there at all, considering that one of the 2000 pics or texts kept from the jury involved Martin wanting to buy a gun. I would take the President much more seriously if he hadn't politicized this case from the get-go, or if he were talking about the black on black gun violence that is rocking his hometown of Chicago, or if he wasn't pushing gun control at every opportunity. But yeah, I know....none of that fits the narrative he wants.
One things for certain. Zimmerman will continue to be vilified in the press and by the left, Martin will be made into a martyr by the same forces, and the forecast is for greater political and social polarization. All for an incident that none of us would have ever heard of if it hadn't been seized upon by people with an agenda.
^ yup. >:(
I agree with your post above Steelie. That said, Zimmerman was an overzealous fool who could have avoided all of this if he just stayed where he was as the police dispatcher told him to.
Quote from: Gusington on July 14, 2013, 03:59:44 PM
I agree with your post above Steelie. That said, Zimmerman was an overzealous fool who could have avoided all of this if he just stayed where he was as the police dispatcher told him to.
It was certainly avoidable on his part and, while no reasonable person could conclude that Zimmerman was guilty of murder, his poor choices led to a confrontation that changed many people's lives, including his own. For however long he lives, this incident will forever be a part of him and will be something he has to live with.
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 14, 2013, 04:47:30 PM
Quote from: Gusington on July 14, 2013, 03:59:44 PM
I agree with your post above Steelie. That said, Zimmerman was an overzealous fool who could have avoided all of this if he just stayed where he was as the police dispatcher told him to.
It was certainly avoidable on his part and, while no reasonable person could conclude that Zimmerman was guilty of murder, his poor choices led to a confrontation that changed many people's lives, including his own. For however long he lives, this incident will forever be a part of him and will be something he has to live with.
Well said by both of you.
I'm not clear on this point, did Zimmerman approach Martin, or did Martin approach Zimmerman after he thought he was being followed
Quote from: OJsDad on July 14, 2013, 09:13:47 PM
I'm not clear on this point, did Zimmerman approach Martin, or did Martin approach Zimmerman after he thought he was being followed
Zimmerman said that Martin approached him. The girl who was speaking with Martin on the phone seemed to corroborate this with her testimony in court, yet another witness for the prosecution who actually aided Zimmerman.
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 14, 2013, 09:25:11 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on July 14, 2013, 09:13:47 PM
I'm not clear on this point, did Zimmerman approach Martin, or did Martin approach Zimmerman after he thought he was being followed
Zimmerman said that Martin approached him. The girl who was speaking with Martin on the phone seemed to corroborate this with her testimony in court, yet another witness for the prosecution who actually aided Zimmerman.
So, except for getting out of his truck, he didn't do anything to attract Martin to him?
Is that where the 'Cracker' comment came from?
Quote from: OJsDad on July 14, 2013, 09:28:16 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 14, 2013, 09:25:11 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on July 14, 2013, 09:13:47 PM
I'm not clear on this point, did Zimmerman approach Martin, or did Martin approach Zimmerman after he thought he was being followed
Zimmerman said that Martin approached him. The girl who was speaking with Martin on the phone seemed to corroborate this with her testimony in court, yet another witness for the prosecution who actually aided Zimmerman.
So, except for getting out of his truck, he didn't do anything to attract Martin to him?
Is that where the 'Cracker' comment came from?
He was following Martin in his truck against the advice of the 911 dispatcher, and he left his truck supposedly to check the address (it was raining) to pass it on to the cops. Martin realized he was being followed as he talked to the girl. At that point, either Martin doubled back to confront Zimmerman (as Zimmerman claims) or Zimmerman escalated the situation by confronting Martin.
And yes on the "cracker" comment.
...the dispatcher only gave Zimmerman the advice not the order to stay in his truck and only for the safety of Zimmerman
(because he was alone and is not trained like a cop to react to assault, and probably had no vest against stabbing /small caliber either)
It was his duty (if he would choose to take the risks involved) to even march up to the "hoody guy " and say: "hey pilgrim i am from Neighborhood Watch , cold night to walk in the rain, can i offer you a ride in my truck home..."
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2013, 05:36:21 AM...the dispatcher only gave Zimmerman the advice not the order to stay in his truck and only for the safety of Zimmerman (because he was alone and is not trained like a cop to react to assault, and probably had no vest against stabbing /small caliber either)
He was given the advice b/c (according to the police in Sanford) their policy is not to give orders to the population unless they are directly interfering with an imminent police action.
That's a standard almost anywhere, according to the police officer here I talked to, as the cops are not in the habit of bossing people around, but instead offer suggestions (sometimes more strongly worded than other times) unless the police are on the ground and in the midst of their actions
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2013, 05:36:21 AMIt was his duty (if he would choose to take the risks involved) to even march up to the "hoody guy " and say: "hey pilgrim i am from Neighborhood Watch , cold night to walk in the rain, can i offer you a ride in my truck home..."
Be very, very careful with the word "duty". It's not the "duty" of a neighborhood watch volunteer to walk up to anyone and say anything. If it's a "duty" then it is something you can be prosecuted for
failing to do, and that's unequivocally
not the case with Zimmerman.
Jon Meacham said something pretty good this morning on Morning Joe:
"We have a pre-existing ideological machinery in the country now into which any details are put in and an automatic reaction comes out... that's the reality of our current public dialogue."
my take is pretty basic:
I have no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman's actions led to Trayvon Martin's death. The guy had the option to walk away and chose not to. The guy was asked by the police to stop following him, and he chose not to. The guy had any number of opportunities to exit the situation and chose not to. Instead, he provoked a confrontation. As that confrontation escalated, Trayvon Martin was shot, and Zimmerman pulled the trigger.
That does not make Zimmerman guilty of murder. He might have actually been guilty of manslaughter, but the defense did their job: they established sufficient reasonable doubt about whether or not Zimmerman was guilty of anything at all. That's how our system works. Our system is set up such that we would rather see 20 guilty people go free rather than put 1 innocent man in jail. This might be one of those 20, or he might be the one.
The truth is, almost none of us here are lawyers. Moreover, unless someone's been undercover in the crowd here for a while, none of us are criminal attorneys in Florida with an expertise in the nuances of Florida's state laws. People continue to talk about "stand your ground" laws, which are irrelevant in this case (as stated by many, many Florida law experts). But the truth is that we lack the expertise to seriously examine the case on its legal merits. (see my post in the pix-for-a-laugh thread)
People have made this into a racial incident because that suits their personal worldview, but ignores the reality of race in America: it's a blurred line in a lot of places, such as the fact that Zimmerman is mixed white-Latino but called "white" by many people; the President is mixed white-black (and raised by his white mother) but called "black" by many people.
Meanwhile, you get demagogues wading into the debate who try to twist every facet of the case to bolster their pre-existing crusades, such as Bloomberg arguing that it's the result of a "gun culture" propagated by gun-rights extremists in Washington, or Al Sharpton hollering about the state of the justice system in America, because that's what he always yells about.
The best behaved people in the entire affair are Trayvon's parents. They said all along that they wanted an arrest, and a jury trial and that they would abide by what came out of that. They have. And they've called for others to do the same. If the parents in the case can maintain their calm and dignity in the face of all the hyperbolic rhetoric pinging around the nation right now, why can't the professional protest machine, who are far, far less in tune with the facts of the case than the parents are?
BB
i meant duty as a self-imposed duty i had freely chosen and bound only by my word as a man of honor
... like if i sign up for a closed beta, i feel its my duty to actually test it deep and good.
maybe i am just German ;)
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2013, 06:21:50 AM
BB
i meant duty as a self-imposed duty i had freely chosen and bound only by my word as a man of honor
... like if i sign up for a closed beta, i feel its my duty to actually test it deep and good.
I understand the translation issues. I'm just making sure that "duty" in this case is clearly distinguished from a legal obligation to do (or not do) something for which there are legal ramifications.
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2013, 06:21:50 AM
maybe i am just German ;)
I don't think there's a lot of "maybe" in there... pretty sure your full-on Deutsch ;D
It's because you're German Mike :)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 15, 2013, 06:05:42 AM
Jon Meacham said something pretty good this morning on Morning Joe:
"We have a pre-existing ideological machinery in the country now into which any details are put in and an automatic reaction comes out... that's the reality of our current public dialogue."
my take is pretty basic:
I have no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman's actions led to Trayvon Martin's death. The guy had the option to walk away and chose not to. The guy was asked by the police to stop following him, and he chose not to. The guy had any number of opportunities to exit the situation and chose not to. Instead, he provoked a confrontation. As that confrontation escalated, Trayvon Martin was shot, and Zimmerman pulled the trigger.
That does not make Zimmerman guilty of murder. He might have actually been guilty of manslaughter, but the defense did their job: they established sufficient reasonable doubt about whether or not Zimmerman was guilty of anything at all. That's how our system works. Our system is set up such that we would rather see 20 guilty people go free rather than put 1 innocent man in jail. This might be one of those 20, or he might be the one.
The truth is, almost none of us here are lawyers. Moreover, unless someone's been undercover in the crowd here for a while, none of us are criminal attorneys in Florida with an expertise in the nuances of Florida's state laws. People continue to talk about "stand your ground" laws, which are irrelevant in this case (as stated by many, many Florida law experts). But the truth is that we lack the expertise to seriously examine the case on its legal merits. (see my post in the pix-for-a-laugh thread)
People have made this into a racial incident because that suits their personal worldview, but ignores the reality of race in America: it's a blurred line in a lot of places, such as the fact that Zimmerman is mixed white-Latino but called "white" by many people; the President is mixed white-black (and raised by his white mother) but called "black" by many people.
Meanwhile, you get demagogues wading into the debate who try to twist every facet of the case to bolster their pre-existing crusades, such as Bloomberg arguing that it's the result of a "gun culture" propagated by gun-rights extremists in Washington, or Al Sharpton hollering about the state of the justice system in America, because that's what he always yells about.
The best behaved people in the entire affair are Trayvon's parents. They said all along that they wanted an arrest, and a jury trial and that they would abide by what came out of that. They have. And they've called for others to do the same. If the parents in the case can maintain their calm and dignity in the face of all the hyperbolic rhetoric pinging around the nation right now, why can't the professional protest machine, who are far, far less in tune with the facts of the case than the parents are?
Good breakdown of the situation, Brant, although I'm not sure I agree that Zimmerman provoked the situation. BUT he certainly could have walked away and
prevented the confrontation, and chose not to. That's on him and he has to live with that.
Martins parents have reacted with dignity while going through the hardest times that a parent can know, and I have only sympathy for them. For the rest of us, this entire incident would have either gone unnoticed or been a small blurb in our news were it not for the demagogues, race-baiters, MSNBC, the folks who make a dollar off of sensationalizing a tragedy or use the personal anguish of parents to push their political idealism. If the country burnt over the verdict, these same people and organizations would "tut-tut", then use the footage of riots to further their agenda as well. If there were only some way to take money and political power out of the equation, these people would scurry away like cockroaches and have to figure out a different way to make a living.
I read in the Wall St. Journal today that a civil lawsuit against Zimmerman would be very difficult in Florida because a self-defense plea was upheld in court. I also read elsewhere that Florida's self-defense laws are almost identical to those in 49 other States (Ohio being the exception).
Zimmerman's attorney is talking about using Florida's Stand Your Ground defense in the event of a civil suit, which, contrary to media and popular opinion, was not used in the trial. According to Zimmerman's attorney, an affirmative SYG ruling would immunize Zimmerman against civil damages. I have no idea of that's true or not, but it sounds like Zimmerman's legal team is ready for the next step.
BTW, there is obviously so much out there about this case, but I found this http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2013/07/gzng.html (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2013/07/gzng.html)
to be an interesting read. Be sure and follow the links to his "20 thoughts" as well.
Zimmerman had NO legal obligation to just ignore Martin and walk away, or to follow him and attempt to ascertain his intentions. However, as a good citizen, and as a civic minded community member, he did have an obligation to attempt to protect his neighbors.
The community in Sanford is literally plagued with home invasions and burglaries. The year of incident alone, Sandford police had received over FOUR HUNDRED calls regarding break-ins, burglaries, etc....that's like more than the comparable statistics from friggin' Compton, CA. Crime is out of control in that neighborhood and community members are sick of being victimized. I do not fault Zimmerman for trying to investigate Martin's location based upon his suspicious behavior (ie. standing somewhere between homes in the middle of the night in the middle of a rain storm).
So yes, Zimmerman did not HAVE to look for Martin when he lost sight of him, but then again, Martin did not HAVE to break Zimmerman's nose and bash his head repeatedly against concrete, either. Who is more responsible for the death of Martin under these circumstances?
I wuv you JH!
Dershowitz weighs in on the special prosecutor who brought Zimmerman up on charges. For those who don't know, he's not exactly known to be a right winger.
QuoteALAN DERSHOWITZ: Right, it is. She submitted an affidavit that was, if not perjurious, completely misleading. She violated all kinds of rules of the profession, and her conduct bordered on criminal conduct. She, by the way, has a horrible reputation in Florida. She's known for overcharging, she's known for being highly political. And in this case, of course she overcharged. Halfway through the trial she realized she wasn't going to get a second degree murder verdict, so she asked for a compromised verdict, for manslaughter. And then, she went even further and said that she was going to charge him with child abuse and felony murder. That was such a stretch that it goes beyond anything professionally responsible. She was among the most irresponsible prosecutors I've seen in 50 years of litigating cases, and believe me, I've seen good prosecutors, bad prosecutors, but rarely have I seen one as bad as this prosecutor, [Angela] Cory.
Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/07/14/alan_dershowitz_zimmerman_special_prosecutor_angela_corey_should_be_disbarred.html
I wish more people would frame the case like JH did above.
It's amazing to me that the one juror who is talking says that half the jury was in favor of convicting Zimmerman of second-degree murder the first vote. Given the total lack of evidence against him and how the forensic evidence supported his story, that's scary.
I saw more of this case live than I wanted - my dad had it on at his place as entertainment.
The Defense argued that what is missing in the media is what was said immediately after Zimmerman said he was following Martin. The cops said "don't do that." Usually the media cuts it off there. What followed is important. Zimmerman then said "OK (I won't follow). I'll meet you back at 123...wait, he could be listening and I don't want to give my apartment number. I'll meet you at the mailboxes."
(I paraphrased the above but that's the essence)
So Zimmerman then did try to retreat. Four minutes elapsed, during which time Martin jumped Zimmerman. This is important as it showed that, contrary to the media and prosecution's story, Zimmerman *did* break off pursuit.
Well it keeps the proles distracted at any rate. What? Russian troops on alert after Israel hit a weapons stockpile in Syria? The US government caught in a string of spying scandals? the executive seizing more and more power? Economic collapse? The government repealing laws that prevented them from propagandizing the domestic populace? Who cares!? There's a racially charged trial on the TV! This is almost as good as a missing white girl or salacious celebrity gossip!
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on July 16, 2013, 02:11:40 PMWho cares!? There's a racially charged trial on the TV! This is almost as good as a missing white girl or salacious celebrity gossip!
which is why I get more of mynews from international sources than I did 3-4 years ago.
I'm really confused as to why the left is so worked up over this whole thing. First, if Zimmerman was black and Martin Hispanic, they would be screaming to free him instead of trying to lynch him. Second, with neither any solid evidence to convict him of murder or manslaughter, or Zimmerman being a racist, they cannot seem to let it go. It's like they know they jumped into this too quickly and now they have to come away with something or they lose face. It really makes one wonder who the real racists are.
I think this quote from Jasmine Rand, a Martin family attorney sums up the lefts position;
QuoteI have a greater duty beyond being an attorney, and that's to be a social engineer
. They don't like the outcome and now they want to change it. If this was the King beatings in LA I could understand, but this just makes me scratch my head. To say that 6 non-black women couldn't possible get it right, is down right insulting.
A small and largely unnoticed division of DoJ went down to Sanford, FL last year and actually helped orchestrate some of the protests.
They also seem to have been involved in a church meeting which organized a series of demands, not the least of which was to force the resignation of the police chief after his department concluded there was no there there.
Not a lot of people, not a lot of visibility, but apparently the right help when it was needed.
QuoteA division of the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) was deployed to Sanford, Florida in 2012 to provide assistance for anti-George Zimmerman protests, including a rally headlined by activist Al Sharpton, according to newly released documents.
The Community Relations Service (CRS), a unit of DOJ, reported expenses related to its deployment in Sanford to help manage protests between March and April 2012, according to documents obtained by the watchdog group Judicial Watch.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/10/doj-provided-security-for-anti-zimmerman-protests/#ixzz2ZGEGEJsj
Quote from: OJsDad on July 16, 2013, 07:56:11 PM
I'm really confused as to why the left is so worked up over this whole thing. First, if Zimmerman was black and Martin Hispanic, they would be screaming to free him instead of trying to lynch him. Second, with neither any solid evidence to convict him of murder or manslaughter, or Zimmerman being a racist, they cannot seem to let it go. It's like they know they jumped into this too quickly and now they have to come away with something or they lose face. It really makes one wonder who the real racists are.
I think this quote from Jasmine Rand, a Martin family attorney sums up the lefts position; QuoteI have a greater duty beyond being an attorney, and that's to be a social engineer
. They don't like the outcome and now they want to change it. If this was the King beatings in LA I could understand, but this just makes me scratch my head. To say that 6 non-black women couldn't possible get it right, is down right insulting.
You have to remember that the folks with a vested interest in racial tension profit from it, either in votes or in money. And the media couldn't be any more two-faced or less biased if we were in a State controlled country.
Race, politics and the Zimmerman trial http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323394504578608182550247030.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323394504578608182550247030.html)
http://crosscut.com/2013/07/15/media/115568/john-carlson-trayvon-martin/ (http://crosscut.com/2013/07/15/media/115568/john-carlson-trayvon-martin/)
As Obama and Holder attempt to move forward on the discussion of "stand your ground" laws, it's worth noting that, at least in Florida, African-Americans benefit overwhelmingly from its use.
QuoteAfrican Americans benefit from Florida's "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law at a rate far out of proportion to their presence in the state's population, despite an assertion by Attorney General Eric Holder that repealing "Stand Your Ground" would help African Americans.
Black Floridians have made about a third of the state's total "Stand Your Ground" claims in homicide cases, a rate nearly double the black percentage of Florida's population. The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that for Florida whites.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/blacks-benefit-from-florida-stand-your-ground-law-at-disproportionate-rate/#ixzz2ZJJTJTBp
Quote from: LongBlade on July 16, 2013, 02:05:58 PM
I saw more of this case live than I wanted - my dad had it on at his place as entertainment.
The Defense argued that what is missing in the media is what was said immediately after Zimmerman said he was following Martin. The cops said "don't do that." Usually the media cuts it off there. What followed is important. Zimmerman then said "OK (I won't follow). I'll meet you back at 123...wait, he could be listening and I don't want to give my apartment number. I'll meet you at the mailboxes."
(I paraphrased the above but that's the essence)
So Zimmerman then did try to retreat. Four minutes elapsed, during which time Martin jumped Zimmerman. This is important as it showed that, contrary to the media and prosecution's story, Zimmerman *did* break off pursuit.
Saying he would back off is not the same as actually backing off. What was the location of the fight? Close to the mailboxes or somewhere else where Zimmerman tied to discreetly keep in visual contact?
I liked Brant's post above. Then I liked JH's more. The statement of the extreme lawlessness in the area changes the whole situation of what is acceptable for a "wannabe cop" in a volunteer role to do. Given the environment this type of confrontation was bound to happen. Maybe even be common.
Obama's statement that it could have been him as a young man is profoundly stupid. I doubt he would have assaulted a guy with a gun. Every opportunity he ignores the case to take the "Black" side. He makes it clear he represents black America first, second and third. Everyone else take a number.
There is a profound divide between how many blacks see this case and how the rest of the nation sees it.
It is not helped by a president who doesn't back law and order. There was a trial and a verdict. There was an FBI investigation a year ago that found no evidence of racism - to the contrary, Zimmerman had good relations with many of his black neighbors.
For a guy who had an excellent opportunity to help further heal racial tensions, Obama failed to take advantage of those opportunities. Instead he leaves black people with the impression that they are victims, rather than equal citizens. It's a shame.
It's difficult to know his motivation. For a guy so politically cynical to espouse the philosophy of "never letting a crisis go to waste" it's difficult to watch his actions as anything less than an opportunity to shore up his base for the midterm elections.
Zimmermans really screwed.
he gets hung out to dry now for Stepping out of his car.
Had he not done so and trayvon had indeed been a buglar or god forbid had hurt someone during a break in, then zimmerman would also have been hung out to dry if he had just drove away. its a Loose, Loose situation.
It really annoys me to see all those organisation and even the president trying to gain some political influence over this case. none of them cares anything about either of the persons involved, they just want to push some political agenda.
Quote from: LongBlade on July 16, 2013, 08:11:04 PM
A small and largely unnoticed division of DoJ went down to Sanford, FL last year and actually helped orchestrate some of the protests.
They also seem to have been involved in a church meeting which organized a series of demands, not the least of which was to force the resignation of the police chief after his department concluded there was no there there.
Not a lot of people, not a lot of visibility, but apparently the right help when it was needed.
QuoteA division of the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) was deployed to Sanford, Florida in 2012 to provide assistance for anti-George Zimmerman protests, including a rally headlined by activist Al Sharpton, according to newly released documents.
The Community Relations Service (CRS), a unit of DOJ, reported expenses related to its deployment in Sanford to help manage protests between March and April 2012, according to documents obtained by the watchdog group Judicial Watch.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/10/doj-provided-security-for-anti-zimmerman-protests/#ixzz2ZGEGEJsj
More information regarding the CRS.
Maybe it's time to dismantle the agency?
Quote"At CRS headquarters, we (meaning I) regularly had to warn or take corrective action against career employees for acting as advocates instead of mediators," Ondray Harris, the former director of the DOJ's Community Relations Service (CRS), told The Daily Caller. CRS was the unit deployed to Sanford in 2012 to oversee anti-Zimmerman protests.
"Some CRS employees come to the Agency with anti-law enforcement or anti- what they would call the 'white establishment' [attitudes]" added Harris, an African American who joined CRS during the administration of George W. Bush in 2007 and left in 2010.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/21/former-doj-official-civil-rights-unit-sent-to-mediate-anti-zimmerman-protests-has-history-of-advocacy/#ixzz2Zmb6L4Xz
Hoo boy.
>:(
Quote from: LongBlade on July 19, 2013, 08:48:56 PM
There is a profound divide between how many blacks see this case and how the rest of the nation sees it.
It is not helped by a president who doesn't back law and order. There was a trial and a verdict. There was an FBI investigation a year ago that found no evidence of racism - to the contrary, Zimmerman had good relations with many of his black neighbors.
For a guy who had an excellent opportunity to help further heal racial tensions, Obama failed to take advantage of those opportunities. Instead he leaves black people with the impression that they are victims, rather than equal citizens. It's a shame.
It's difficult to know his motivation. For a guy so politically cynical to espouse the philosophy of "never letting a crisis go to waste" it's difficult to watch his actions as anything less than an opportunity to shore up his base for the midterm elections.
QFT and +1
The fallout continues.
QuoteA weekend robbery in a racially diverse neighborhood of Washington may have been a hate crime, police said.
"This is for Trayvon Martin," one of the three black men told a white man as they approached him early Saturday, according to Washington Metropolitan Police Officer Anthony Clay.
Source: http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/28/us/dc-robbery-hate-crime/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Time to start keeping the Mossberg 590 at the ready in the office. ;) Guess I'd be in trouble since I get called a racist quite frequently at Octopus Overlords.
...but I'm em2nought over there. They don't call the other Hentzau fellow over there a racist. Just wanted to make sure that his name isn't slurred.
Quote from: LongBlade on July 28, 2013, 05:40:23 PM
The fallout continues.
QuoteA weekend robbery in a racially diverse neighborhood of Washington may have been a hate crime, police said.
"This is for Trayvon Martin," one of the three black men told a white man as they approached him early Saturday, according to Washington Metropolitan Police Officer Anthony Clay.
Source: http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/28/us/dc-robbery-hate-crime/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Dammit. I had a feeling something like this might happen, but I was really hoping I'd be proven wrong.
George Zimmerman Tracks Down Joseph Kony, Executes Him (http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/07/george-zimmerman-joseph-kony/)QuoteGULU, UGANDA — Two weeks after George Zimmerman was found not guilty in the murder of Trayvon Martin, the former neighborhood watch captain has turned up in Uganda after allegedly gunning down a "suspicious-looking" African warlord, sources confirmed today.
"Between killing a kid and saving a family, I was getting a lot of press," confessed Zimmerman. "No one gives a shit about Africa except Bono and hipsters. I figured I'd be able to lay low."
While out for a stroll on Sunday evening, Zimmerman spotted Joseph Kony, the rebel leader of the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) that has terrorized the citizens of Uganda for more than 25 years. The group garnered national attention when a bunch of white college students called for Kony's arrest by volunteering the U.S. military for the job through a sweet film with chill music.
"Look, I don't go looking for trouble," Zimmerman explained. "But there were some people walking around the village who looked suspicious. I was forced to take a stand."
A Special Forces Captain whose name is being withheld for security reasons explained things differently.
"I swear every other day I'd have this guy running into my hooch yelling about how somebody looked suspicious. Usually, it was just some villager walking home. Guy is a total asshole."
Despite the captain's remarks, Zimmerman's suspicions led him straight to Kony.
"I knew it was him," Zimmerman told reporters. "He looked really suspicious you know? He was just walking around, wearing a camouflage hoodie, raping women and looking into huts for children he could enslave."
Still, some say Zimmerman was profiling Kony, especially since the behavior he described is common in Africa. "Everyone does that here," explained Moses Hersi, a local villager. "It's practically the national pastime."
"So, I see Zimmerman running at me like a maniac," the Special Forces captain said. "He's yelling about how he's 'got this fucking punk'. We asked him to wait till we could assess the situation but he just took off running."
When Special Forces arrived, Zimmerman was calmly standing over Kony's lifeless body. Asked what had happened, Zimmerman said, "Look every action I took was in direct compliance with Uganda's 'Stand Your Ground Laws'. I calmly pulled my sidearm, and after putting Kony on his knees. I shot him in the head. I was well within my rights."
Back at the White House, President Obama reflected on the tragedy.
"You know, had I grown up in Kenya instead of Hawaii, which is totally where I grew up by the way, this could have been me," Obama said. "35 years ago, I could have been kidnapped by Joseph Kony — or I could have been Joseph Kony, kidnapping children."
In Africa, the backlash from the shooting has spread throughout the region. Across the Democratic Republic of the Congo, hundreds of 30-year-old men have been seen wearing shirts reading "We are all Joseph Kony."
Once again, the resulting unrest has forced Zimmerman to move. And a "Justice For Kony" movement has sprung up among confused American college activists who are unsure of how to handle the news of Kony's murder.
At press time, George Zimmerman once again came out of hiding as he saved a family of four when their rickshaw overturned in southern Indonesia. He was unavailable for comment.
How politically incorrect is it to laugh out loud at that?
Because if it isn't PC to laugh, I totally found that without humor.
That is f@cking hilarious. I would like to print the whole story on 100 million hoodies and hand them out.
Took this at cosco today. The official snack of Zimmerman: