It looks like Geek and I are going to be jumping into this at some point. The last couple of days I've been going through the new tutorials and playing offline against bots, getting a feel for it. I think that, given the right circumstances, I could really be sucked into this one.
It's generally available now, although Valve are apparently staggering the rollout to interested players in order to efficiently scale up their infrastructure.
So who's in? Anyone here already playing?
I've had a look on the website and at some of the stuff on Steam. I can't actually make my mind up as to what the heck its all about?
Quote from: bob48 on July 16, 2013, 04:20:24 PM
I've had a look on the website and at some of the stuff on Steam. I can't actually make my mind up as to what the heck its all about?
It's an RTS/RPG hybrid, and to many people, an e-sport. Briefly, two teams of five players (along with mindless AI drones called creeps) battle to take out the opposing team's base. You earn gold and XP for kills, spending XP on levelling up your skills and gold on items that augment them and your base stats. You spend your time killing enemy creeps and players, eventually moving on to taking out their defensive towers and, ultimately, their base. It's frenetic and lots of fun! It's also very heavily team-based; you just can't win without cooperating with your team.
Actually the Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dota_2) does a very good job of explaining it.
what's a DOTA 2?
Ok I'm just gonna say it ... League of Legends is better don't get sucked into Dota2 :)
Quote from: TheCommandTent on July 16, 2013, 06:38:28 PM
Ok I'm just gonna say it ... League of Legends is better don't get sucked into Dota2 :)
Haha! Dota 2 natively supports Linux, which is why I chose it. Also, it's reportedly a bit slower-paced than LoL, so I surmised it will be better for new players. :)
Well, I've finally made my way through the training stuff and did just fine, so last night I played my first two games against other people.
The first game, I used a random hero pick because you start with more gold and I need to get a feel for as many heroes as possible. The game chose Omniknight for me, and I hated him! Firstly, he's a support hero so I stayed with a teammate in my lane to support him and allowed him to get all the last hits, and thus gold. This meant I couldn't buy the items I needed to supplement my mana pool, leaving me pretty much useless until very late in the game when I was able to jungle. I need to do some reading and find out how the hell to play a support properly.
The second game I again used random pick, and was given Sniper - much better! This time I was able to get quite a few kills and assists. The Sniper's ultimate is a really powerful shot which can do loads of damage at ridiculously long range. I even managed to gank my lane opponent, Juggernaut, a couple of times, which was fun. :D
During the second game everyone was almost completely silent which was weird. However, in the first game we were all chatting about being noobs and swapping advice on strategies etc. It was great. So far I've had no experience of the dreadful community that MOBAs have. I've even been voted as a "friendly" player a couple of times!
Really, really good fun. Can't wait to play again! Y'all know this is completely free to play, right? :)
Ill be there!! Goddam holidays razn frazn mutely noises
My primary complaint with DOTA 2 was that the old Warcraft 3 engine was stretching the graphics to cover higher resolutions. It may be okay at lower resolutions, but at 1680x it was quite blurry from the gfx stretch. :(
From what I've played, I do like the wide variety in characters available, each with their own style. I couldn't get used to the gameplay as it seemed like you're always pushing up a lane and then running away, then pushing, back and forth rinse/repeat. Dying regularly in my case, because I can't get my ass moving fast enough when a large wave comes at me with a main character in it. And that against the AI!
I was terrible at this thing and while I like the wide variety in the character selection, the gameplay strategy sounds very repetitive. Perhaps many of the morons with diarrhea of the mouth have moved on to other MOBA titles, so that would be enough of a positive to give this a try once more.
Also... I thought "jungling" was something you were supposed to do around mid-game, not too long into it? I didn't quite understand how the game flows so it's no wonder I never improved much at it.
Nefaro, your frustrations come from inexperience. No offense intended; I imagine every player new to MOBAs has had exactly the same thoughts. I know I have. Let me give you a couple of examples:
Quote from: Nefaro on July 28, 2013, 11:36:40 AM
I couldn't get used to the gameplay as it seemed like you're always pushing up a lane and then running away, then pushing, back and forth rinse/repeat.
Yeah, this is laning, and this is what you spend most of your time doing (subject to hero selection). You aren't actually supposed to
push the lane until you have the upper hand; early-mid game is spent actively trying to keep the creep line where it is, while you level up on killing enemy creeps and accumulating gold. It's down to a fine art these days, and it makes for tense, extremely enjoyable gameplay in my opinion. Trying to get those last hits in, denying the enemy last hits on your own creeps, occasionally harrassing your lane opponent to keep him out of the lane (and therefore not accumulating XP) as much as possible etc. It's my favourite part of the game, but as with all aspects of Dota, it's nuanced and your lane strategies will differ enormously subject to your opponent, your hero, your items, what's happening elsewhere etc.
QuoteDying regularly in my case, because I can't get my ass moving fast enough when a large wave comes at me with a main character in it.
You die a
hell of a lot as a noob, it's just how things are. The lesson you eventually learn is that if you're being ganked by a single enemy hero in a lane, you've done something wrong. Either you've fallen behind on XP or items, you're not paying attention, your lane control is all wrong (pushing too early for example), and so on. In my previous post, when I mentioned ganking Juggernaut a couple of times in my lane, I was able to do that because he was playing like a banana. :D
Anyway, I think I've made my point. What you describe is how the game is, at least as seen through the eyes of an inexperienced player. Again no offense - I've rarely played such a hardcore game and I will consider myself a noob too, until I have at least a few dozen games under my belt. :)
QuotePerhaps many of the morons with diarrhea of the mouth have moved on to other MOBA titles, so that would be enough of a positive to give this a try once more.
I hope you do. I braced myself when I launched that first game with other players, but apart from a couple of "WTFs" in the second game, everything was perfectly amicable. After each game you get to rate the other players in terms of friendliness, willing to teach, leadership etc. You can also report abusive players. This must have something to do with the vast improvement in attitude I've seen so far.
QuoteAlso... I thought "jungling" was something you were supposed to do around mid-game, not too long into it? I didn't quite understand how the game flows so it's no wonder I never improved much at it.
There are various reasons for jungling, again depending on so many factors. In my case, as Omniknight, I was entirely dependent on my mana-intensive spells. I wasn't getting any gold in lane, which meant I couldn't buy items to improve my mana pool and mana regen, so I was essentially useless and just dead weight. Going into the jungle was an attempt to get some gold. It worked - too late to have much of an effect on the outcome of the game, but it worked. :)
I really hope you give it another try, Nefaro. As multiplayer PvP goes, this is about as pure an experience as it's possible to get. When you learn more and start having those eureka moments, playing gets infinitely more enjoyable.
I may give it another swing sometime.
I'll be the first to admit that I was, and will still be, an utter noob at it. While I'm usually a quick learner, that didn't happen much for me in the few games that I had played against the AI. It was a learning failure I'm not accustomed to, and I felt confused as to what I needed to do to improve.
This guide (http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck) is an excellent primer. But yeah, the learning curve is staggering, matched only by the likes of Eve Online.
Watched some primer vids recently because I have an itch to play a genre that I normally don't.
(Sorry Rising Storm guys, still haven't been in a shooter mood yet! -- Soon!™)
I think there are two facets that pushed me away before. One is how structured the setup and gameplay is. In a Strategy/ARPG-ish game, the concept is just alien to me. I've always thought of strategy games as rather freewheeling ordeals in which you have some general tactics that are sound but the element of surprise, and occasional use of unorthodox or risky tactics, when a window of opportunity presents itself, can be large decisive factors. In these MOBAs, it seems that the overall strategies are very rigid and conservative throughout setup and most of the game span. So it's a bit strange.
The second is massive amount of clicking required. Often quick precise ones, too. In combination with always needing to keep one eye on the mini-map, it's overloaded my multi-tasking handicap.
I'm gonna try to learn it again and see how it goes. The wide variety of heroes and equipment is the draw for me, because I do like learning new playstyles on a regular basis (Alt-tastical!).
Quote from: Nefaro on July 31, 2013, 08:01:44 PM
Watched some primer vids recently because I have an itch to play a genre that I normally don't.
(Sorry Rising Storm guys, still haven't been in a shooter mood yet! -- Soon!™)
I think there are two facets that pushed me away before. One is how structured the setup and gameplay is. In a Strategy/ARPG-ish game, the concept is just alien to me. I've always thought of strategy games as rather freewheeling ordeals in which you have some general tactics that are sound but the element of surprise, and occasional use of unorthodox or risky tactics, when a window of opportunity presents itself, can be large decisive factors. In these MOBAs, it seems that the overall strategies are very rigid and conservative throughout setup and most of the game span. So it's a bit strange.
The second is massive amount of clicking required. Often quick precise ones, too. In combination with always needing to keep one eye on the mini-map, it's overloaded my multi-tasking handicap.
I'm gonna try to learn it again and see how it goes. The wide variety of heroes and equipment is the draw for me, because I do like learning new playstyles on a regular basis (Alt-tastical!).
I play League of Legends from which DOTA 2 is take alot of notes and this is a interesting assessment. While I would agree that it looks this way within the strict "meta," as it is referred to, there are lots of strategies on team compositions and items builds etc. However, the game does require lots of percise clicking and time while maintaining map awareness versus the minimap. Like anything else it takes practice but it is some how addictive fun.
My son and his group of gaming buddies have been playing DOTA 2 since January while it was beta and never seem to tire of it. They do everything online and multiplayer and seldom stray from the game for more than a day or so. His computer desk is right next to mine and I can testify that his gameplay is very intense.
I'm learning ranged characters somewhat, but I just get murderized too much as melee.
It's also a pain in the butt to try shopping whilst trying to lane farm or push. That'll get easier as I'm more familiar with item recipe progression and each individual character's item needs, but I don't see that knowledge getting in there very quickly. :)
The preset build feature is nice but I haven't dabbled with it yet. That should make it easier to 'bookmark' specific item progression to use with specific characters but kinda useless until I figure out what each one needs.
Looks like I'll be doing practice bot matches for quite some time. :-[
Yeah, don't be in any rush to play against other people. I went through all of the middle lane practice matches as well as all of the vs. bots matches before I tried it.
Don't forget your courier! When you want to shop just head a short way into the jungle so that the enemy can't see you, buy what you need, then get your courier to bring it. One thing I found useful was if you left-click on an item with the shop interface open, it shows you what you could make using that item as a base.
I've had a guest all week so haven't been able to play, but I'm looking forward to diving back in on the weekend. Looks like Geek will be joining me too. 8)
For those who don't know. Dota stands for Defense of the Ancients. It is a Warcraft 3 mod.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 02, 2013, 01:11:49 AM
Yeah, don't be in any rush to play against other people. I went through all of the middle lane practice matches as well as all of the vs. bots matches before I tried it.
Don't forget your courier! When you want to shop just head a short way into the jungle so that the enemy can't see you, buy what you need, then get your courier to bring it. One thing I found useful was if you left-click on an item with the shop interface open, it shows you what you could make using that item as a base.
I've actually learned most tips like these. Just need to get better at remembering and using all of them. Right now, I'd say learning the web of item upgrades, and what each character needs most, is the biggest hill to climb.
The next hill on the horizon is getting efficient using the interface. There's a lot of fast clicking and what compounds that issue is the amount of vertical view available. It's not much at all. I nearly always have to slew the view back & forth in order to get longer move orders off or to target something that's moving. The restricted view/zoom is a pain in the ass, in this regard. I can tell this still uses the old Warcraft 3 game engine because that was always a problem in it, too. They may as well put the mini-map front & center in the UI since it receives move clicks so much. ???
Quote from: Nefaro on August 02, 2013, 09:19:55 AM
Right now, I'd say learning the web of item upgrades, and what each character needs most, is the biggest hill to climb.
Agreed. Although when you start playing with people at a certain level you'll be expected to know what all the heroes' abilities are, too.
With regard to the viewable area, I think it's like this by design. All the MOBAs do it. I've gotten used to it now, and don't forget you can click the minimap to set a long move target.
Have you read the "You Suck" guide yet? It really is an excellent primer.
What are you actually enjoying about the game so far? For me, it's all about laning. I love how tense it is, being only metres from your opponent, getting those last hits in, denying your opponent the same, maybe going in for a bit of harrassment when his guard's down. It's enthralling. I almost lose interest when it gets to the point where a base is being attacked, even if it's my team doing the attacking. :)
Yeah, the laning build-up is interesting. My performance starts suffering later in the game, compared to most of my bot teammates. But I suppose that's because I've mostly only been practicing Support roles.
OK this is a pretty fun game. I've only played the tutorial stuff, but it's pretty addictive. It'll be interesting to play in some public matches.
Cool, I'm glad you're enjoying it mate. So far I've played four public matches and haven't encountered any bellends at all! Perhaps they're in the upper brackets. :)
I just spent the last hour getting swore at in I think Portuguese. Of course I could have told them it was my first public match, but I guess they should have figured that out from all the dying I did!
I'm focusing on playing the Windrunner, but I suspect I might need to try another class or twenty before I find my comfort class.
Quote from: Bison on August 05, 2013, 02:15:11 PM
I just spent the last hour getting swore at in I think Portuguese.
Haha! Good work! In one of the games I played this week I started talking on voice comms at the start of the game and someone immediately told me to stop talking! I was like "er no, if you don't want to hear me, mute me!" Fortunately that's the only even remotely negative interaction I've had with the community thus far.
Try not to die too much though. Feeder. :P ;)
Wow. I just played with the most disrespectful players. One guy sat on chat abusing another teammate for everything and another was going after the same player in text chat with some pretty foul trolling language. Reported both, but frankly I don't think it really matters. Some people need to move out of their mom's basement and live in the real world for awhile.
Eurgh, you're not having much luck there Bison. How are you finding matches? I'm still using the training interface to do the "play vs humans" mission. I think I'm at 4/10 by now.
Dota and League of Legends are both know for their very toxic communities. I don't know about Dota but LoL has instituted a number of measures to curb this, such as the reporting and honor system as well as the tribunal system to review all complaints. I've been playing for about a year and in that year I can tell it has helped alot. Still there are just those people with nothing better to do than rage online.
It seems to be endemic to MOBAs as a whole...with the solitary exception of Rise of Immortals. It's a shame that game is now defunct. It was rather fun. :(
Quote from: Bison on August 05, 2013, 02:15:11 PM
I just spent the last hour getting swore at in I think Portuguese. Of course I could have told them it was my first public match, but I guess they should have figured that out from all the dying I did!
I'm focusing on playing the Windrunner, but I suspect I might need to try another class or twenty before I find my comfort class.
I've not played a single public match yet. Been taking my sweet time in practice matches with bots in order to become more familiar with the classes, item pyramid, not dying as much, etc.
Well the reality is that while the bot games allow you time to learn the powers of the class you are playing; human opponents do not behave like bots. So all that strategy that worked against bots goes out the window against humans.
Quote from: Bison on August 05, 2013, 05:24:56 PM
Well the reality is that while the bot games allow you time to learn the powers of the class you are playing; human opponents do not behave like bots. So all that strategy that worked against bots goes out the window against humans.
Of course. But it's nice getting used to how a class operates and how to shop without standing about too long.
I just buy crap from the store and hope it works out for my class. :P
I had a spectacular session last night, and I think I may have found my hero: Sniper. I utterly dominated the opposition with him. In the first game we completely steamrolled the other team, getting an easy win in about half an hour. It was just what I needed; after a string of losses it definitely lifted my spirits. So I decided to gamble and play another game.
The second was unbelievable. We were more or less neck and neck until the final stages of the game and it really could have gone either way. They even took Roshan down but thankfully failed to press the advantage. I feel that my team was technically playing better, but we just weren't communicating. As usual I was the only one on voice (and the only one denying creeps AGAIN) and I was trying to coordinate the team, and they were trying, but we just couldn't quite all get together in one place at one time, making it really difficult to push. However there was one splendid moment when I spotted the enemy team marching into our base, so I called it and we all ran back to defend. Ganked the shit out of them. :D We won the game in the end.
Just an excellent session. Dota 2 really is an incredible multiplayer game, I'm having silly amounts of fun with it.
hmmm my Son is playing this now (the one who was addicted to League of Legends).. I didn't play that with him, because I didn't like the looks of the 'launcher'.. But since this runs through Steam, I may give it a shot.... lol.. game play itself, it looks like the same game to me!.. How do they make their money?
The micro shop. Last night there were over 450,000 around the world watching DOTA 2 The International tournament. Add in the 200,000 playing the game and it does take too many $2.50 chest unlock keys to make money.
Yeah, Valve already discovered that, bafflingly, hundreds of thousands of players are willing to spend money on hats. So almost everything you can buy in the store is a cosmetic item. The prize fund for the current pro tournament is made up entirely of store purchases, and it ran to the millions of dollars.
Tuna, gameplay-wise it doesn't look, superficially, like there's any difference between MOBAs. Once you play them, though, you start seeing differences which are night and day. In LoL, for example, you get a lot more mana to use abilities and you can't deny creeps. This makes players of other MOBAs look down on LoL as a more casual MOBA (it has the largest playerbase by miles though).
Dota 2 is more hardcore, then, and truest to the Dota original. It also looks a hell of a lot better than LoL in my opinion.
I like DOTA 2 because it's fun. :P
Quote from: Bison on August 11, 2013, 12:36:58 PM
I like DOTA 2 because it's fun. :P
And I like you because you're
so cute!
Thanks!
So! One year on and I'm still playing little else. Look at how naive I was last year:
Quote from: Huw the Poo on July 16, 2013, 04:05:48 PM
I think that, given the right circumstances, I could really be sucked into this one.
Oh, if I only knew! For those who don't know, I play hardly anything else at the moment. I've barely touched any game I've acquired in the last year, because I do most of my gaming at weekends and at those times Dota 2 just calls to me. I stand by everything I've said in this thread before...it's the purest multiplayer experience I have ever known, and win or lose, it's staggering amounts of fun.
I have around 80 games under my belt and over 100 hours and I've
still barely scratched the surface; of a 100+ hero pool, I only know about 15 of them well, and I haven't even tried at least half. A noob I may still be, but I'm not completely green any more. I know which items to buy, which order to buy them, I've got all the fundamentals down, I even avoid being criticised in more than half the games I play!
I urge anyone even slightly curious to give it a go. The tutorial has apparently been beefed up in the last year (and it wasn't bad when I did it) and with The International 2014 qualifiers over and the main event about to start, there's no better time to dive in. Play a few games, watch the pros play a game, then play some more. All completely free of charge. It's gaming bliss. :)
I like the variety of characters (and their styles) in DOTA2.
But I'm not all that enamored with the gameplay itself. The strategy of it is very narrow and rigid. Too "gamey", even. :buck2:
Quote from: Nefaro on July 03, 2014, 04:36:55 PM
I like the variety of characters (and their styles) in DOTA2.
Yeah, there are no duplicates there at all, which is quite an achievement for such a large hero pool. No two heroes are the same.
QuoteThe strategy of it is very narrow and rigid.
This might be truer at the higher levels, but not so where I languish. There are several ways to win each game...split pushing, pure pressure, Roshan rush, teamfight-heavy etc. Like all things Dota, it depends on your team, their team, and how the game naturally flows.
For anyone starting out, this has been the pattern I've followed thus far: Play All Pick and just pick a hero I like the look of, or play All Random and let the game choose one for me. Play the game. Do it all wrong. Later, look the hero up on the wiki, watch "Purge plays [hero I just played]" on Youtube and find out how I
should have been doing it. Play again with that hero and do much better. :)