Which do you prefer for more of a WWI-era feeling of immersion?
I have played quite a bit of Commander: The Great War, both PBEM and against the AI, and while I like it very much, it doesn't feel very much like WWI. It could easily be WWII with different units or even other more modern wars. The events and portraits and such help a bit.
Does Strategic Command WWI + Breakthrough give you more of that immersion in the WWI era? And of course the other conflicts the game includes...does it do them well?
Thanks all.
I didn't think SCWWI had more of an immersion factor to it than Commander. If anything, the graphics and general look of the game doesn't really make it stand out all that much from any other turn-based wargames. It may help that the scale is a bit larger or that there are lots of scenarios to choose from.
Out of the three, I'd say WWI Gold has the best immersion but that is a tough one to learn.
I own Strategic Command and Breakthrough and was a beta tester for Commander the Great War.
CTGW was a bit too Panzer General like for me. I think SC is a much better game. Battlefront has added a Franco-Prussian war scenario for it.
I also own WWI gold and have started it many times and just as many have closed it up.
I haven't seen the videos that were posted last week on WWI. I believe they are tutorials and show you what the engine is doing.
I do not know if any has better immersion than the others. I am an old hex and chit Grog so SC suited me better than CTGW.
Frankly, the SC graphics make the game a non-starter for me. I don't need much, but a halfway decent looking map adds to a strategy game and SC doesn't have it.
Magnus I also felt that Commander felt a lot like Panzer General.
The screenshots I've seen of SC don't look particularly horrible, to me anyway.
The reason I am interested in the SC game now is for all the additional scenarios included, especially the Franco Prussian War. And potential immersion. But if you guys are pretty much meh maybe I should look to WWI Gold...except there aren't any additional scenarios there IIRC...
Any screenshots or AARs of the Franco-Prussian scenario?
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 21, 2013, 08:00:34 PM
Any screenshots or AARs of the Franco-Prussian scenario?
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=110366
^Thanks Grim. OK so the maps look a bit bland but the units look pretty good to me.
Yes, thanks Grim. There are only a few games that deal with the F-P War at all.
Strategic Command WW1 forces players to carefully consider long run strategy vs. short run tactics. It also closely follows the logistics limitations of WW1. You can easily outrun supply or have your troops become combat ineffective if you do not carefully consider supply. Your artillery can be devistating, but there is a terrible shell shortage which forces you to stockpile ammo and carefully consider where you should try to launch offensive actions.
It takes a lot of effort to generate a real strategic offensive push. But if you ever get a breakthrough then the logistics can work in your favor if you can surround units or pockets.
I've played the game through several times and read several AARs. It does seem to capture the huge number of options you have in the war and the strategic dangers of letting your tactics drive your strategy.
Thanks Airboy.
Oddly, i played Strategic Command 1 European Theater the other night - its on gog.com and my first thought right away was that the Slitherine commander games are identical to it - in almost everything but just the colour and position and layout. but SC WWI looks alot different and better depth wise. Though i think i really may like guns of august, as frank hunter designs games brilliantly. though i havent had a chance to play it yet
Interesting, thanks.
I played the demo for SC WWI and really enjoyed it. It fit a strategy need nicely and the AI was quite good. If I had more time, I'd buy it give it a go. Can't comment on CGW as I've never tried it.
Sadly the Strategic Command games are bundled with Battlefront's terrible DRM/license system, that seems to only get worst with every new release.
Quote from: Gusington on July 21, 2013, 07:42:57 PM
But if you guys are pretty much meh maybe I should look to WWI Gold...except there aren't any additional scenarios there IIRC...
There are a few, but nothing like SCWW1:B. For example there is an epic scenario of the east African war in Breakthrough, while in WW1G that whole conflict is handled as an off-map event. It's nice that it's there at all, but SC definitely wins the scenario war (so to speak).
The only three scenarios I recall from WW1G so far are Tannenburg (which may actually be impossible for the Russians to win), the initial Serb/Hungary conflict, and a Palestinian operation.
But WW1G isn't there to cater to your pathetic whims, it exists TO LAUNCH WORLD WAR ONE UPON YOU!! :D 8) Go big or go home, etc.
(Or go bigger and even more insane with
Pride of Nations, which for all practical purposes is a buildup to and playout of the first world war, with the various Imperial and Civil Wars of the 19th century being preludes.)
Come be our fourth player (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5425.0), Gus, and learn the true meaning of despair and horror. ;D
Or, you know, if anyone else wants to, that's okay, too. :)
I tried the demo for some of the SC games and often found the turn processing painfully slow.....has that been improved with newer versions? On average, how long does it now take to process a turn?
How do I turn down even more pain and horror than the usual?
What kind of DRM is involved here? I didn't know SC had any draconian DRM scheme.
Quote from: SgtRock on July 22, 2013, 02:43:15 PM
Sadly the Strategic Command games are bundled with Battlefront's terrible DRM/license system, that seems to only get worst with every new release.
This, combined with it having (by most accounts) a significantly steeper learning curve, is why I lean toward picking up CTGW instead.
I already own and enjoy Commander but I yearn for more scenarios.
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 22, 2013, 03:24:24 PM
The only three scenarios I recall from WW1G so far are Tannenburg (which may actually be impossible for the Russians to win), the initial Serb/Hungary conflict, and a Palestinian operation.
I actually won the Tannenburg scenario as the Russians... once. Minor Victory by some tooth skin IIRC.
Part of the reason was that the turn-based mode's AI wasn't as aggressive, and that's what I was using. I believe it's been tweaked in later versions since then, however.
It's certainly randomly aggressive now. While I was playing out details for some of the tutorials, the Germans got tired of waiting around for me to do something and launched attacks on forts and towns in Russian territory.
It comes down to this: if the AI decides to intercept the northern Russian stack (1st Army) with a serious stack of its own nearby, Germany wins. Aside from completely wacky dice rolls there is no way Russia's stack can beat them, much less beat them with enough strength remaining to besiege Koenigsberg, and the 2nd Army maybe gets one turn to help the siege before the scenario is over -- and that's assuming the player knows how to project detachments northward beyond where the 2nd Army HQ has to be planted in Tannenburg. (Oddly the scenario isn't named after the actual objective...)
Quote from: Gusington on July 22, 2013, 07:33:27 PM
How do I turn down even more pain and horror than the usual?
What kind of DRM is involved here? I didn't know SC had any draconian DRM scheme.
WW1G has no DRM at all, only the usual Matrix registration code printed on the disc (and/or emailed). Once it's installed, you don't even need the disc to play it.
To be fair, I expect that's true for C:GW, too.
SC WW1 Breakthrough is a great game.
It simulates WW1, it is not a WW2 game engine one steroids. You feel WW1 when you play it.
The AI turn takes a little time, but for my personal tast it is not too long (even though i would agree that faster is always better).
I for myself play SC WW1 only against a human opponent, it is the time of my life when we finally find enough time to play another game.
It really is that much fun in multiplayer games.
The AI is quite good, but look for a buddy or sibbling to play this game, you won't regret it.
Another big advantage of SC WW1 is the unbelievable amount of large campaigns and smaller scenarios.
Big campaigns:
WW1
WW2 (!)
Russian Civil War
Great scenarios:
Ludendorff Offensive
German East-Africa
Franco-Prussian War (1870-1871)
First Balkan War (1912-1913)
The Siege of Kut
... ... ...
I never played any of the commander games.
I own Guns of August, and i consider it a bad release, because it plays as if it was ment to scare players away. I once learned Gary Grigsby's Pacific War. I needed three tries and several month to get into it. That was the hardest work i ever had to do play a game. And even Pacific War had a "better" user interface than Guns of August. At least in my eyes.
Quote from: Martok on July 23, 2013, 09:52:06 AM
Quote from: SgtRock on July 22, 2013, 02:43:15 PM
Sadly the Strategic Command games are bundled with Battlefront's terrible DRM/license system, that seems to only get worst with every new release.
This, combined with it having (by most accounts) a significantly steeper learning curve, is why I lean toward picking up CTGW instead.
To help with learning the game we have a dedicated thread on the forum to guide players through much of the essentials of the game, and I recommend everyone playing the game (even just the demo) to take a look at it while playing:
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=107356
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 22, 2013, 07:14:53 PM
I tried the demo for some of the SC games and often found the turn processing painfully slow.....has that been improved with newer versions? On average, how long does it now take to process a turn?
Hi
We have made a lot of improvements to the engine in this respect, so it depends really on when you last tried one of our demos. The size of the map is always a factor in the equation too.
Our demo for WWI Breakthrough! can be found here so you can always try it out and let us know:
http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=267&Itemid=473
Bill
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 21, 2013, 06:21:49 PM
Frankly, the SC graphics make the game a non-starter for me. I don't need much, but a halfway decent looking map adds to a strategy game and SC doesn't have it.
Initially, I wasn't expecting much from SCWW1 Breakthrough - naively drawing the conclusion from the graphic style that it was pretty much an Axis and Allies, Beer and Pretzels type game. In fact it is deceptively deep with some very subtle gameplay. Check out my review of it: http://grogheads.com/rev-scwwi.html
I found the graphics on Dominions3 disappointing, but there is one of the deepest fantasy wargames you can find on the market, and I still have it on my hard drive.
Both are Quality games. If you'll excuse the analogy - Don't judge a book by it's cover.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 22, 2013, 07:14:53 PM
I tried the demo for some of the SC games and often found the turn processing painfully slow.....has that been improved with newer versions? On average, how long does it now take to process a turn?
I have not had that problem with a 2 year old Falcon Northwest Talon. But I am running a powerful gaming rig.
Quote from: Bill101 on July 23, 2013, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 22, 2013, 07:14:53 PM
I tried the demo for some of the SC games and often found the turn processing painfully slow.....has that been improved with newer versions? On average, how long does it now take to process a turn?
Hi
We have made a lot of improvements to the engine in this respect, so it depends really on when you last tried one of our demos. The size of the map is always a factor in the equation too.
Our demo for WWI Breakthrough! can be found here so you can always try it out and let us know:
http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=267&Itemid=473
Bill
Excellent game, which does you credit! Thank you very much for the
free - "value adding" - WW2 Scenario, and the Franco-Prussian War scenario. Not that many developers look after the gaming community, without charging for DLC etc unlike you and Hubert. Much appreciated. :)
Quote from: Boggit on July 23, 2013, 03:59:03 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 21, 2013, 06:21:49 PM
Frankly, the SC graphics make the game a non-starter for me. I don't need much, but a halfway decent looking map adds to a strategy game and SC doesn't have it.
Initially, I wasn't expecting much from SCWW1 Breakthrough - naively drawing the conclusion from the graphic style that it was pretty much an Axis and Allies, Beer and Pretzels type game. In fact it is deceptively deep with some very subtle gameplay. Check out my review of it: http://grogheads.com/rev-scwwi.html
I found the graphics on Dominions3 disappointing, but there is one of the deepest fantasy wargames you can find on the market, and I still have it on my hard drive.
Both are Quality games. If you'll excuse the analogy - Don't judge a book by it's cover.
Funny you should mention both SC and Dom3, as I also think they both have bad map art but good content. ;D
Quote from: airboy on July 23, 2013, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 22, 2013, 07:14:53 PM
I tried the demo for some of the SC games and often found the turn processing painfully slow.....has that been improved with newer versions? On average, how long does it now take to process a turn?
I have not had that problem with a 2 year old Falcon Northwest Talon. But I am running a powerful gaming rig.
That's interesting...I have a pretty powerful rig too....maybe I will have to try again at some point.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 23, 2013, 06:51:49 PM
Quote from: airboy on July 23, 2013, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 22, 2013, 07:14:53 PM
I tried the demo for some of the SC games and often found the turn processing painfully slow.....has that been improved with newer versions? On average, how long does it now take to process a turn?
I have not had that problem with a 2 year old Falcon Northwest Talon. But I am running a powerful gaming rig.
That's interesting...I have a pretty powerful rig too....maybe I will have to try again at some point.
I think the turn processing on the grand WWI scenario can be rather long. Not
Pride of Nations long, no, but longer than most turn-based games.
It's not too bad considering the AI will give you a challenge. :D
Ive never had a problem with turn time in SC. I have had the game hang on me at times during its turn though.
I liked Guns of August and never really had a problem with the interface that I can recall. I liked the game well enough to do a map and counters mod for it in fact. I haven't been in a WWI mood for some time and thus haven't played it but might have to break it out again soon.
Thanks all...I am pretty comfortable getting the SCWWI bundle, with Breakthrough. I'm going to order the physical copies this weekend.
Quote from: Nefaro on July 23, 2013, 06:30:13 PM
Quote from: Boggit on July 23, 2013, 03:59:03 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 21, 2013, 06:21:49 PM
Frankly, the SC graphics make the game a non-starter for me. I don't need much, but a halfway decent looking map adds to a strategy game and SC doesn't have it.
Initially, I wasn't expecting much from SCWW1 Breakthrough - naively drawing the conclusion from the graphic style that it was pretty much an Axis and Allies, Beer and Pretzels type game. In fact it is deceptively deep with some very subtle gameplay. Check out my review of it: http://grogheads.com/rev-scwwi.html
I found the graphics on Dominions3 disappointing, but there is one of the deepest fantasy wargames you can find on the market, and I still have it on my hard drive.
Both are Quality games. If you'll excuse the analogy - Don't judge a book by it's cover.
Funny you should mention both SC and Dom3, as I also think they both have bad map art but good content. ;D
Dom3 is way worse than SC though for map art. On the plus side there is no issue with clarity, the map art is easy to read when playing.
Quote from: Gusington on July 24, 2013, 07:32:08 AM
Thanks all...I am pretty comfortable getting the SCWWI bundle, with Breakthrough. I'm going to order the physical copies this weekend.
Good purchase. It really does have that "just one more turn" factor. Don't forget to download the patches, which give you the updated WW2 scenario, and the Franco Prussian War scenario - all good stuff. :)
^Definitely. The Franco-Prussian War scenario is one of the big draws for me.
Looks like you're gonna need that gas mask Gus. Better hang on to it.
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 24, 2013, 10:15:59 PM
Looks like you're gonna need that gas mask Gus. Better hang on to it.
What did you dooooo?!
Yeah really what did you do? I can hear the commotion from here.
Since I can't quite manage to find a fourth player for GUNS OF GROGUST (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5425.0) (yet), I'm thinking of picking up SCWW1:B and playing a parallel grand campaign with an AAR comparing it with WW1G as I go along. (I'd make it a trifecta, or a quadfecta with the original Guns of August which I already have, but I'm not sure I'm up to that, and between the other three I want SC's smaller scenarios.)
I expect to hear soon of the success of the "von Gusington Plan" in winning the WWI.
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 25, 2013, 07:30:48 AM
Since I can't quite manage to find a fourth player for GUNS OF GROGUST (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5425.0) (yet), I'm thinking of picking up SCWW1:B and playing a parallel grand campaign with an AAR comparing it with WW1G as I go along. (I'd make it a trifecta, or a quadfecta with the original Guns of August which I already have, but I'm not sure I'm up to that, and between the other three I want SC's smaller scenarios.)
I would've probably jumped at the multiplayer game opportunity a year or two ago, but my backlog is so huge these days I'm not gonna get around to revisiting WWI Gold for another 18-36 months (approx.). :(
I'll play PBEM in this once I get it. I suck too so prepare for a victory. I could not beat our own Shelldrake or the AI in C: TGW.
Ok so I never bought SCWWI back during the summer. I have returned to it now, mainly because of my interest in the Balkan scenarios. Anyone have anything new to say on the game?
Quote from: Gusington on July 25, 2013, 10:54:48 AM
I'll play PBEM in this once I get it. I suck too so prepare for a victory. I could not beat our own Shelldrake or the AI in C: TGW.
I don't think you suck Gus. The Germans have a really hard time of it in C:TGW. Anytime you want a rematch just say the word. :)
Quote from: Gusington on November 23, 2013, 09:48:35 PM
Ok so I never bought SCWWI back during the summer. I have returned to it now, mainly because of my interest in the Balkan scenarios. Anyone have anything new to say on the game?
I'm playing the Ostaufmarsch (sp?) campaign from SC-WW1 as the Central Powers. I have the settings on beginner and the Entente AI is still giving me a challenge. It seems to exploit any holes I have left open in the lines. Overall, I'm satisfied with the game.
You're being too kind Shell. If you want to start a rematch, let's go. I should be able to return the PBEM at least as regularly as last time.
Thanks for the post Al. Since no one has really shot down SC:WWI, gonna get it now. Physical copy.
Quote from: Gusington on November 24, 2013, 11:01:32 AM
You're being too kind Shell. If you want to start a rematch, let's go. I should be able to return the PBEM at least as regularly as last time.
Thanks for the post Al. Since no one has really shot down SC:WWI, gonna get it now. Physical copy.
PM me with your preference for side/campaign and I will set up a game.
Quote from: Gusington on November 24, 2013, 11:01:32 AM
You're being too kind Shell. If you want to start a rematch, let's go. I should be able to return the PBEM at least as regularly as last time.
Thanks for the post Al. Since no one has really shot down SC:WWI, gonna get it now. Physical copy.
Oddly enough, I also ordered a physical copy (with Breakthru) this past week.
Ooh...is there PBEM available with SCWWI?
hi everyone!
your talk about SCWWI got me interested - please tell me, does battlefront do a Xmas sale... like matrix right now?
the $55 'pickup-fee' sounds nice and all... (for the bundle) ...i just don't want to be surprised by a sale in a 'few' days...
cheers! ...and keep up your topics - really love to read them all!!;-)
chem!
Be aware, there's a $10 shipping charge, too, for a physical copy. (Annoying, but I paid the price.)
I have never heard of a Battlefront sale. Too bad.
I'm hoping to pick up C:TGW, too, once the Matrix sale kicks in.
Gus,
Yes, PBEM is available (or so says Battlefront's overview page for the basic game.)
Yeah the shipping kinda took me by surprise but I have been waiting forever to purchase so I finally just said f it.
I also worried I would miss a Xmas sale but again said f it.
Anyone have any idea how active the PBEM community is for C:TGW? PBEM++ makes it kinda hard to judge activity since people don't necessarily have to post in the Opponent Finder thread.
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 25, 2013, 03:49:17 PM
Be aware, there's a $10 shipping charge, too, for a physical copy. (Annoying, but I paid the price.)
I have never heard of a Battlefront sale. Too bad.
I'm hoping to pick up C:TGW, too, once the Matrix sale kicks in.
Don't recall Battlefront ever having a sale either but they will bundle some games together for a lower price.
Yes I got the bundle for SCWWI and Breakthrough. No other game I know of covers the wars between the Franco Prussian War and WWI, like the Balkan Wars. That's the main reason why I'm getting the bundle.
thank you. no sale means to buy as soon as... now! ;D
cheers!
chem!
I had been holding out on SCWWI but with the bundle, I may just have to go for it now.
Welcome to Grogheads,
chemkid!
Quote from: Double Deuce on November 26, 2013, 02:26:51 AM
I had been holding out on SCWWI but with the bundle, I may just have to go for it now.
What is the price for the bundle, btw?
Quote from: Martok on November 26, 2013, 05:10:29 AM
Welcome to Grogheads, chemkid!
Quote from: Double Deuce on November 26, 2013, 02:26:51 AM
I had been holding out on SCWWI but with the bundle, I may just have to go for it now.
What is the price for the bundle, btw?
55 Austro-Hungarian Kronen, err... dollars US. (http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=34&flypage=shop.flypage_bfc&product_id=335&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)
Plus 10.00 shipping if you want a physical copy.
Thanks Staggerwing! And thanks for the reminder, Gus.
I wish I wasn't so leery of Battlefront's licensing/copy protection. I haven't heard a lot of complaints about it, but I have seen a few. It still sounds just onerous enough to keep me perpetually hesitating.
Martok, thanks for the welcome. :)
drm for SCWWI was to enter one serial for both games (main + Expansion - while being online...) ... that was all...
cheers!
chem!
Quick question...got Breakthrough and the original SCWWI game up and running. But I don't see the Franco Prussian War scenario available. I haven't patched anything yet...which patches do I need to get that scenario? Thanks all.
the 1.0.4 patch for breakthrough would be fine i guess.
the original needs the 1.0.7. patch.
here's the link:
http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=266&Itemid=475
cheers!
chem!
So Gus, Have you played yet? Which do you prefer?
Quote from: chemkid on November 26, 2013, 09:33:44 AM
drm for SCWWI was to enter one serial for both games (main + Expansion - while being online...) ... that was all...
Yes, they each have a serial key. But they also use Battlefront's online activation DRM which has limited activations per year.
Thanks chemkid. Its very early in my play of SCWWI but initially I like the art style of the icons better here than in Commander. On the flip side there is background music in Commander and right now in my unpatched copies of SC there is no music and I miss it.
^ That's weird, Gus, because I just installed SCWW1+Breakthru the other night, and epic music played all throughout both installs (and my patching). Haven't started a game yet, though.
I have music through the install and in the menu screen but not in game.
What music were you looking for Gus? Snoopy vs the Red Baron?
Anything...after the setup music it was disappointing to hear nothing in game.
Come to think of it the demo didn't have music either. Maybe that's what I was missing. Just troops tromping, truck engines and airplane sounds. By the way, early on airplanes are almost useless. Flying them in range of enemy units will get them shot out of the sky. Until upgraded all you can do is fly them laterally along your front to show enemy positions.
Quote from: Gusington on December 03, 2013, 10:59:05 AM
Anything...after the setup music it was disappointing to hear nothing in game.
There is no music during the game itself - which I consider a good product feature. Gusington disagrees. But consider this - how many games do you keep the music on after playing say 6-7 hours? The only ones that I have kept playing are when I can easily add my own music tracks to the game (like Fallout 3 among others).
I will add my own tracks, that's a good idea. Certain types of music help me with concentration. I even have a BBC issued collection of period pop music.
@nefaro - thanks for that info. had to reset my key on one machine already - support was fast and problem is solved...
anyway, i hope to keep my game installed and won't need to reinstall anytime soon.
@gusington - bbc issued collection of period music?! nice!!!
cheers! and have fun with this great game!
chem!
Yeah I must have bought the disc at least ten years ago...have to dig it out.
I wouldn't care about the music, normally, but the install music was pretty epic sounding. Just weird to have that at the install but not the intro screen or whatever (if they're only going to use it once in a limited way).
Yeah that's what I meant...a big buildup musically only to lead to...nothing.