So let's all remember that there actually was some pretty good discussion back at WGer about 6-7 years ago. I've been on a mini-quest to rescue some of my old threads from there so that we can preserve some good ideas and discussion sparks before the whole place inevitably crumbles and they're lost forever in another software "upgrade"
I had posited a rambling off-the-cuff alternate course of WWI in one post, and it sparked some pretty good discussion. I wanted to drag it back up and see what y'all thought? The premise is that the US either stays out of the war, or sides with the Germans. Remember, this is WWI / pre-Nazi / no-Hitler / wildly-nationalistic-European Germany, not the evil incarnate of WWDeux.
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Forgetting the Western front for a second: What happens on the Eastern Front if the Germans don't have as many forces committed to the Western front?
What happens to the Balkans if the Austro-Hungarian Empire isn't hacked up after the war?
Assuming a German victory in the west, coupled with the same Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, and Austria likely takes significant chunks of Italian/Yugoslavian coast, from Venice to Dubrovnik, at least.
The Ottoman Empire still falls apart. Iraq/Palestine are under German influence rather than British, and the Suez Canal may change hands. Similarly, the German colonies in Africa aren't parceled out among other nations.
More importantly, while the Brits and French likely plot their revenge on Germany - and the US - the Nazi party never rises in Germany.
A WWII is still likely, given the unresolved state of armistices at the time, and imminent rise of Japanese militarism. But the Holocaust doesn't happen, Israel is perhaps founded, but treated much differently because the Jews aren't scarred by the memories of the Holocaust.
German domination of the Middle East from the Suez to Hormuz results in an efficient bureaucratic system layered on top of Islam that may have suppressed more radical sects like Wahhabism. Our German allies would've maintained the flow of oil from the Arabian peninsula, without the US having to guarantee the continuation of the Saudi monarchy.
What happens to the Austrian Empire is still up in the air - given the mishmash of ethnicities within the empire, it might have looked like 1990s Yugoslavia, only (a) bigger, and (b) sooner. But given the connections with Germany (such as language) it's likely that some of it would've been absorbed into a greater German co-operation sphere.
Poland and Czechoslovakia never know independence, but the Baltic states don't fall under Communist domination because of the proximity of Germany's borders.
All in all, it's a pretty different world, eh?
Someone, I think in another thread, made a decent point.
If the English and French allied with the CSA in the American Civil War, no matter the outcome, the USA would not enter the war.
Without the american army and industrial support, the Kaiser would have won.
No Nazis, but a powerful German Empire dominating Europe from the central position.
Quote from: besilarius on July 26, 2013, 06:15:48 PM
No Nazis, but a powerful German Empire dominating Europe from the central position.
so 100 years later and they still go what they wanted.
As an offshoot of a German win in WWI, The French would have seethed for revenge.
I really can't see them trying anothe war against an even greater Reich.
Germany would not allow them to take Spain, or Italy, so the only outlet for French energy would be Africa or the South Pacific.
Perhaps a hypothetical naval campaign for control of the islands of the South Pacific involving both the Germans and the English? Or a major land conflict in central Africa? The French could have cut the north south railways running from Capetown to Cairo.
http://worldif.economist.com/article/13528/sultans-spring
Interesting supposition.
I've wondered about that scenario before. I'd read how the Ottomans considered going the other way.
Kinky Ottomans
You know, I really did try to think of a better way to phrase that, but ended up deciding "screw it"... ::)
What would the US have gotten out of joining Imperial Germany?
Would the Bolsheviks have come to power?
Quote from: OJsDad on August 07, 2017, 04:22:38 PMWhat would the US have gotten out of joining Imperial Germany?
What did we necessarily get out of joining Imperial England? I'm not trying to be flippant here, but there really wasn't a significant threat to the US from either side until we started getting involved with commercial shipments.
Quote from: OJsDad on August 07, 2017, 04:22:38 PMWould the Bolsheviks have come to power?
You mean in Germany? Or in Russia? I think Russia was probably a fait accompli given the other internal trends there. Germany is a trickier situation.
If we entered the war on Germany's side, how likely is it that we could have landed enough troops in England's pond to make a difference?
HOI:Darkest Hour (especially what's now called the Grand Campaign mod) would allow some interesting looks at a US player declaring for the Central Powers. For one thing, I don't know whether the Ottomans would have crumbled; or if they did, it would have been from internal squabbling and revolutions (especially Arabic) against the Turkish regime.