Hello. I don't follow strategy games all that much, but I do follow the industry. I'm a financial adviser for an up-and-coming electronics/hardware company and some recent news caught my attention.
Here:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-07-26-slitherine-group-the-case-is-now-made-for-premium-pricing
It's about the claims made by a publisher called Slitherine Group. Their claims are impressive (actually too impressive), of 480% increase in sales, so I decided to do some digging to find out if these statements about this growth are really what they seem. I did know about some of the history of Slitherine, that it had merged with Matrix Games, but that was all. After doing a bit of research I found out that it had acquired and merged with many other publishers and developers since then: Norbsoft, AGEOD, and the most recent being Fury Software (I'm sure there are many other companies I'm missing here). The sales increase claim by Slitherine doesn't mention the fact that they acquired the assets of Matrix Games, including its sites, forums and stores, and AGEOD.
It wasn't hard for me to figure out that the claim of this sales increase (480%) was mostly due to the acquisition of assets by Slitherine rather than any Slitherine has done to increase sales otherwise. The time period seems to suggest this as well. The increase is suggested to have taken place over a 3 year period (ending last quarter), and Slitherine had acquired Matrix Games three years ago (to the date). Did anyone else not notice this?
BTW, this seems to be a neat forum.
Greetings Anima, welcome to Grogheads.
That's certainly a pointed first post you lead with. Slitherine can be a bit of a 'hot button' topic around here so it'll be interesting to see what others have to say.
Anima, I'm putting your account on 24 hold for admin review. Someone coming out of nowhere who's first post is an attack is usually a major red flag.
Actually I just notice that Slitherine, Matrix, and Ageod make damn good games and I happy that they are making money.
I just don't really care. I've heard all the pricing debates, and i have my own opinions on pricing. At the end of the day i just don't get to worked up about it. They can make what games they want and price them however they like and i'll buy what i want...it's as simple as that. I'm glad their making money so they can keep making games for me to consider spending my money on. There just games and i've got enough to play the rest of my life, so if i miss a game because of price or drm, ect ect. ...I won't lose any sleep over it.
Quote from: Bison on August 11, 2013, 04:15:29 PM
Actually I just notice that Slitherine, Matrix, and Ageod make damn good games and I happy that they are making money.
+1 8)
Quote from: bbmike on August 11, 2013, 04:31:07 PM
Quote from: Bison on August 11, 2013, 04:15:29 PM
Actually I just notice that Slitherine, Matrix, and Ageod make damn good games and I happy that they are making money.
+1 8)
+2
As long as they continue to make games I want to play I really don't care who they acquire or merge with.
The spammers are really out in full this weekend.
I agree with the comments about the quality of (most of) the product coming from Matrix/Slitherine. I also wonder about the agenda that the OP may have.
I think they meant Premium prices with regards to tablet games.. the most expensive games you see on tablets are usually like 5 bucks.. Now I would've gladly bought Battle Academy for 20 for my tablet (even though I don't touch it much on my PC, I think it would be a great casual game for the tablet). Sadly, they are not really touching Android.
Slitherine in general their starting price points on PC games are not premium, they are reasonable.. usually the 39 dollar range..
Not like Matrix who now and then has their 80 dollar games that never drop..
If they do want to raise their PC game prices more.. than more power to them.. I've got tons of crap that I won't even get to, from all the sales around.. Lately i've really been into Total War and Civ.. and I'm excited for EUIV coming out soon. Also right now playing HOI III.
Yes, I look forward to AGEOD ACW II.. but if they follow the Matrix pricing route, then I will just do without. If they are priced like the usual AGEOD game, then I will buy in a heartbeat. Note: I bought ProN on release, and even though I think it is unplayable, I do not regret it because that company gave me a lot of joy with ACW and AJE!
I also think it is very suspicious that a new member's first post is something like this, smart move with the administrative hold.
Quote from: bbmike on August 11, 2013, 04:31:07 PM
Quote from: Bison on August 11, 2013, 04:15:29 PM
Actually I just notice that Slitherine, Matrix, and Ageod make damn good games and I happy that they are making money.
+1 8)
+1
I am just a customer, and those biz mumbo jumbo talk is just biz mumbo jumbo talk, i dont care
I like to see wargames i like to be developed and released on schedule by Matrix/Slitherine, so i even help with some beta testing on my favorites.
I had the honor to talk to the McNeils and crew in person several times, and was pleased they take plenty of time and listen to a casual customer showing up at their booth at games fairs and are very open to discuss their plans on upcoming games, and their strategy to operate in the markets for different platforms at eye level with a wargame-aficionado, aka a Groghead :)
A game is worth what someone will pay for it. If a company is putting out false clas as to sales, I don't care unless I'm a stockholder. If they make good games, great....I don't give a hoot if they lie about their profit.
Op post sounds like a competitor
+3 to Bison's post.
Isn't the OP also factually incorrect? Yes, Slitherine did purchase and merge with Matrix and AGEOD, but I believe all of the other companies mentioned are just developers who publish through Slitherine/Matrix, aren't they?
Quote from: Kushan on August 11, 2013, 04:33:54 PM
The spammers are really out in full this weekend.
Whether you agree or disagree with what Anima says, he can hardly be called a spammer.
unless we have drones over his house checking his IP. 8)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on August 11, 2013, 06:32:32 PM
unless we have drones over his house checking his IP. 8)
OK, so he might be a sockpuppet...but that still isn't necessarily spamming. :P
I think he was just trying to start a discussion, its not the first post, its the second one, first one he is thanking someone for an AAR. Think he just wanted to make an impression and get some feedback on the subject from the folks on here is all.
Darkspire
I agree that it's an aggressive first post, and probably bad form to open up with something that's easily interpreted as an attack on a company, even if if it's not intended that way.
Better manners might have been starting with a "hi, I'm Anima and I dig gaming" in the "Welcome" forum or something similar. Talk about what you enjoy, what you play, what's coming up that you're looking forward to. Then go nuts banging into the big boys with you 'business' analysis.
Just noting some options for easing into the pool from the stairs instead of a cannonball into the deep end where the regulars are chilling with a beer and having a chat...
I also had a good chuckle at the claims made by a private company about results that cannot be confirmed. If they are so rosy, put out some numbers that can be independently verified. Right up until the day Matrix got themselves bought by Slitherine, the news was always, "We're doing well and have big future plans."
In my personal experience, the businesses that make the biggest boasts are the ones that often end up closing shop in the very near future. :D
It's an interesting observation that the three years of meteoric growth may have been spurred by acquisition.
I don't know if that's the case, though.
Slitherine bought Matrix, so I'm not sure how Slitherine got all its capital if it was so much smaller.
So maybe it's true, but if so where did all the money come from?
Quote from: Herman Hum on August 11, 2013, 06:59:04 PM
In my personal experience, the businesses that make the biggest boasts are the ones that often end up closing shop in the very near future. :D
Heh. Matrix was doing well before the buyout.
After? They still seem to be doing well, but most of the core people have moved on.
So the name lives on, but has the brand changed? Remained the same? Improved? Only consumers can answer that question.
Quote from: LongBlade on August 11, 2013, 07:02:34 PM
So maybe it's true, but if so where did all the money come from?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.allvoices.com%2Fthumbs%2Fevent%2F609%2F480%2F71179022-snorting-cocaine.jpg&hash=0b0cb71e1cf548507af9b373ac52503e0785d797)
Now that the conversation is derailed... I guess I'll jump in.
I think it's possible. But I'm more concerned to as what LongBlade is saying. The company is different than it was prior to the merger because the characters of the play have changed. I think Erik Rutins is the only one still hanging around from the old days?
Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing, but time will tell all. All I know is that I enjoy the older Matrix releases more than I do the more recent ones.
is it an interestiong question? maybe.
does it belong here? not at all.
if youre a professional financial adviser or whatever why ask a bunch of gamers?
a professional either already has the source material in hand or they go to company and ask questions in a professional manner to that company's accounting department. if said company is publicly traded then any financial information can be found elsewhere much easier.
I realize that there are some idiots out there that think people here control the puppet strings but really....
except for a few Mossad and one possible ex-GSG-9 member we're a happy go lucky bunch. ;)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on August 11, 2013, 10:46:00 PM
if youre a professional financial adviser or whatever why ask a bunch of gamers?
a professional either already has the source material in hand or they go to company and ask questions in a professional manner to that company's accounting department. if said company is publicly traded then any financial information can be found elsewhere much easier.
Bingo.
Regardless, the only decision customers get to make is whether or not to purchase the games, not the company. If Slitherine wants to try and justify its 'full price' strategy to potential investors, that is their business even if I might find it laughable. They can stay a big fish in a tiny pond and leave the deep waters to Ubisoft and others.
Its not that uncomom for businesses to stretch the truth a bit, or even not tell their customers what they don't want them to hear. But I pay attention to other signs that suggest if Slitherine is doing that well or not. I personally don't think they are having as much success as they are claiming.
I prefer to look at these things through other avenues, like their actions and appearance. Merging can be seen as a form of weakness, merging with a competitor to eliminate costly competition. The game installers are the same old installers of the last decade, the box sets are the same, the websites never get updated with better software and they don't seem to be expanding their personnel or hiring any better qualified people for marketing. Certain places of the Matrix website haven't been updated for years (like the Corporate section). Even the AGEOD store was just a Matrix Games website clone. So then I can only assume two things:
1) They are having as much success as they claim, but they are investing little of that back into the company (which is often a huge mistake).
2) They are not having as much success as they claim.
Quote from: hurryover on August 12, 2013, 01:08:10 AM
I prefer to look at these things through other avenues, like their actions and appearance. Merging can be seen as a form of weakness, merging with a competitor to eliminate costly competition. The game installers are the same old installers of the last decade, the box sets are the same, the websites never get updated with better software and they don't seem to be expanding their personnel or hiring any better qualified people for marketing. Certain places of the Matrix website haven't been updated for years (like the Corporate section). Even the AGEOD store was just a Matrix Games website clone. So then I can only assume two things:
1) They are having as much success as they claim, but they are investing little of that back into the company (which is often a huge mistake).
2) They are not having as much success as they claim.
I can agree with much of what you claim because it can be supported by other publicly available information. However, they have done a few recruitment drives. One about 01/01/2012 and the latest in June 2013:
Job Opening @ Slitherine
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=6277.msg152408#msg152408
This data is contradictory to your hypothesis.
I pretty much second what most others here have been saying so far. Unless I'm a stockholder in the Slitherine Group, it doesn't particularly matter what they claim is driving their profit.
If they're making good games that I feel are worth the money to purchase them, I will. As a gamer, that's what I most care about. :)
Quote from: Darkspire on August 11, 2013, 06:56:55 PM
I think he was just trying to start a discussion, its not the first post, its the second one, first one he is thanking someone for an AAR. Think he just wanted to make an impression and get some feedback on the subject from the folks on here is all.
Darkspire
Actually
Darkspire, the OP *is* Anima's first post. His post count was only at 1 when I first viewed this thread.
Also, a member's posts are listed in reverse order, so that the post at the bottom of a member's post list is always the oldest one viewable; you can look at each posts' time stamp to verify this. If you go back and check, you'll see the OP is indeed Anima's first post (not his second).
Quote from: Herman Hum on August 12, 2013, 01:41:04 AM
Quote from: hurryover on August 12, 2013, 01:08:10 AM
I prefer to look at these things through other avenues, like their actions and appearance. Merging can be seen as a form of weakness, merging with a competitor to eliminate costly competition. The game installers are the same old installers of the last decade, the box sets are the same, the websites never get updated with better software and they don't seem to be expanding their personnel or hiring any better qualified people for marketing. Certain places of the Matrix website haven't been updated for years (like the Corporate section). Even the AGEOD store was just a Matrix Games website clone. So then I can only assume two things:
1) They are having as much success as they claim, but they are investing little of that back into the company (which is often a huge mistake).
2) They are not having as much success as they claim.
I can agree with much of what you claim because it can be supported by other publicly available information. However, they have done a few recruitment drives. One about 01/01/2012 and the latest in June 2013:
Job Opening @ Slitherine
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=6277.msg152408#msg152408
This data is contradictory to your hypothesis.
What you say is true. Perhaps I jumped the gun a bit.
I know that they would be required to hire a few bodies for their acquisitions to make up for the AGEOD expansion. But they are probably also hiring to fill vacancies too. There is a turn-over it seems.
But why are they not addressing the other aspects I mentioned if everything is so grand?
A bigger question might be....why do you care? Are you a stockholder? Do you have some personal grudge against the company? This type of "analysis" of a gaming company is odd, imho. We're customers. We buy their products or we don't. They're hardly defrauding homeowners like the big banks or playing the Wall Street game. How many companies are 100% honest about how they are doing? You think that McDonalds has any actual idea of how many burgers they've sold, or does "billions and billions sold" just have a nice ring to it?
Lots of smoke here but no fire that I can see.
Quote from: Herman Hum on August 12, 2013, 01:41:04 AM
I can agree with much of what you claim because it can be supported by other publicly available information. However, they have done a few recruitment drives. One about 01/01/2012 and the latest in June 2013:
Job Opening @ Slitherine
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=6277.msg152408#msg152408
This data is contradictory to your hypothesis.
Might they not have just been replacing people who left?
So I always thought the Matrix/Slitherine deal was a merger! Two companies sharing the load, so to speak. But from what has been said here, Slitherine bought out Matrix?
I wonder about the identities involved, and why you have such a divided set of communities, and facilities, why they haven't properly integrated the whole lot into a single place. Presumably because it would take a lot of time and money and they might lose some members/customers on the way..?
- Slitherine have a store and a dedicated forum community (with developers like Lordz Studio and many others in tow)
- Matrix have a store and a dedicated forum community (with lots of developers in tow)
- Wargamer.com have a dedicated forum community.
All these resources on stores and forum communities could possibly be better served in a single place, with a single identity?
Presumably Matrix is out on top in terms of recognition amongst wargaming communities as the leading seller of games? But Slitherine have been making headway into the mobile market big time, and have even dabbled in TV licensing and what not. It's like Slitherine is the "trendy" side to the whole business. :)
I'm not wishing to lambast any company or their current identities, but I would welcome speculation and conjecture on the reasons why they keep all their assets fragmented and disparate. And what would be the consequences for good or ill if they tried to transpose them into a single entity with its own store and forum community.
I think there's a difference in branding
Slitherine = lighter, casual, mass market strategy games.
Matrix = monster games, grognard games, and everything else (includes casual / light wargames etc.).
Quote from: spelk on August 12, 2013, 06:13:44 AM
So I always thought the Matrix/Slitherine deal was a merger! Two companies sharing the load, so to speak. But from what has been said here, Slitherine bought out Matrix?
how things were initially presented to the public, and how they
actually went down are rarely the same thing :)
Quote from: jomni on August 12, 2013, 06:23:01 AM
I think there's a difference in branding
Slitherine = lighter, casual, mass market strategy games.
Matrix = monster games, grognard games, and everything else (includes casual / light wargames etc.).
That does seem to be part of it. Ian McNeill himself has stated that Matrix, Slitherine, and AGEOD all have distinctive communities; and that while ideally they might *like* to combine them all into one, they recognized from the start that that almost certainly wouldn't fly very well with said communities. Bringing them all together is a possible long-term goal, but it's pretty clear Slitherine doesn't envision that happening anytime soon (if ever).
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2013, 06:24:56 AM
Quote from: spelk on August 12, 2013, 06:13:44 AM
So I always thought the Matrix/Slitherine deal was a merger! Two companies sharing the load, so to speak. But from what has been said here, Slitherine bought out Matrix?
how things were initially presented to the public, and how they actually went down are rarely the same thing :)
Indeed. Certainly they made it sound like a merger at the beginning, but it's since become clear that Slitherine was the one who courted Matrix.
Quote from: spelk on August 12, 2013, 06:13:44 AM
So I always thought the Matrix/Slitherine deal was a merger! Two companies sharing the load, so to speak. But from what has been said here, Slitherine bought out Matrix?
I wonder about the identities involved, and why you have such a divided set of communities, and facilities, why they haven't properly integrated the whole lot into a single place. Presumably because it would take a lot of time and money and they might lose some members/customers on the way..?
Slitherine have a store and a dedicated forum community (with developers like Lordz Studio and many others in tow)
Matrix have a store and a dedicated forum community (with lots of developers in tow)
Wargamer.com have a dedicated (if a little lighter) forum community.
All these resources on stores and forum communities could possibly be better served in a single place, with a single identity?
Presumably Matrix is out on top in terms of recognition amongst wargaming communities as the leading seller of games? But Slitherine have been making headway into the mobile market big time, and have even dabbled in TV licensing and what not. It's like Slitherine is the "trendy" side to the whole business. :)
I'm not wishing to labast any company or their current identities, but I would welcome speculation and conjecture on the reasons why they keep all their assets fragmented and disparate. And what would be the consequences for good or ill if they tried to transpose them into a single entity with its own store and forum community.
Maintaining separate identities and separate store fronts is hardly a unique or unusual corporate retail strategy. It widens your market base and permits you to specialize. You've already noted that matrix is better known and respect amongst the wargaming community, whereas Slitherine has a broader appeal. That is the key. You may lose, alienate or confuse your customer base if you consolidated everything under one roof.
Here in the United States, you have large retail chains that specialize in some product or products, but are owned by the same corporate entity. For instance, take Bed Bath and Beyond. This is a rather large department store that sells products for the home. Items for the bedoom, bathroom, kitchen, etc. This company also owns a chain called Harmon. Harmon is like a drug store that sells over the counter medicine, grooming/hygiene products, etc. Finally, Bed Bath and Beyond also owns another large chain called Buy Buy Baby. This large retail outlet sells products exclusively for infants, babies and toddlers. Same company owns all three chains, but they each have different websites and different store fronts.
There is no conspiracy here...just one rational corporate marketing strategy.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2013, 06:24:56 AM
Quote from: spelk on August 12, 2013, 06:13:44 AM
So I always thought the Matrix/Slitherine deal was a merger! Two companies sharing the load, so to speak. But from what has been said here, Slitherine bought out Matrix?
how things were initially presented to the public, and how they actually went down are rarely the same thing :)
In business there are no equals. One fish has to eat the other. Even if the merger is is a 51%/49% split, one company (or person)
must be able to make the final decision.
I was running Wargamer when the merger took place, and the ownership of Wargamer changed with that merger.
We were told that the story was to be "nothing will change." Slitherine was true to its word for several months. Nothing did change.
Of course, the deeper truth is that nothing
could change until they figured out how things worked.
Gradually people started leaving.
---------
I'd like to make an observation about the game publishing business. Game publishing is largely about cash flow. A publisher invests time and money in a title to bring it to market. That cost is relatively fixed. But how many consumers buy the game and when is a variable cost. In simple terms, let's say it costs $3000 to publish a game. But if only $1000 worth of games is bought in six months you haven't paid for the game's cost.
So even a well-run company that pays close attention to its bottom line runs the risk of running into financial problems if they invest (publish) a game that doesn't sell well.
Where Slitherine faces the greatest challenge is that it brings together a good financial manager and a keen sense of how to sell light/mass market games. Prior to buying Matrix their best selling game was quite good - Ice Road Truckers IIRC. It sold far better than more niche titles like War in the Pacific.
So Slitherine has a challenge. It knows how to manage money. It knows the big money isn't in wargaming. But it owns the biggest wargaming stable on the planet.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 12, 2013, 04:04:36 AM
Might they not have just been replacing people who left?
IIRC, their 2012 recruitment drive seemed to focus upon games production staff. I thought they were looking for up to 6 people. This last one appears to want only one. You could be right that it is simply attrition, but they had never publicly posted so many positions at the same time.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 12, 2013, 06:55:44 AM
There is no conspiracy here...just one rational corporate marketing strategy.
Ah yeah, I guess it makes financial/business sense. And I wasn't intimating at any sort of conspiracy.
Community wise, it just seems a little self-defeating, because you have three disparate communities of players, all wargamers at heart, all playing or potentially wanting to play and discuss Matrix/Slitherine/AGEOD titles. Wargaming communities are niche enough, without being divided in this way.
Although, I may be being a little naive here, because I totally understand the need for product specific communities to serve deeply committed players in their one game of choice (like WitP etc), and I understand the need for competitive player group communties having a small enough set of players to be able to run ladders/tournaments etc in wargames.
So, perhaps clustering them all together, in the vain hope that more wargamers in a single place would be a good thing(tm) is but a ridiculously naive pipe dream.
Quote from: spelk on August 12, 2013, 07:24:29 AMSo, perhaps clustering them all together, in the vain hope that more wargamers in a single place would be a good thing(tm) is but a ridiculously naive pipe dream.
Nah, bring 'em all here! ;)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2013, 07:35:09 AM
Quote from: spelk on August 12, 2013, 07:24:29 AMSo, perhaps clustering them all together, in the vain hope that more wargamers in a single place would be a good thing(tm) is but a ridiculously naive pipe dream.
Nah, bring 'em all here! ;)
I only came here to clear up some points and help on Distant Worlds, now I am in danger of using my dusty leather bag of odd shaped and sided dice, I have already bought Rome Total War, Starmade and upgraded my copy of Europa Universalis III due to topics and posts on here, If I stay much longer I am in real danger of strategically planning my shopping trips with figures and flanking actions :o
Darkspire
LOL well thanks for joining us, you helped me 'Get Into" Distant Worlds!
Quote from: Darkspire on August 12, 2013, 08:10:57 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2013, 07:35:09 AM
Quote from: spelk on August 12, 2013, 07:24:29 AMSo, perhaps clustering them all together, in the vain hope that more wargamers in a single place would be a good thing(tm) is but a ridiculously naive pipe dream.
Nah, bring 'em all here! ;)
I only came here to clear up some points and help on Distant Worlds, now I am in danger of using my dusty leather bag of odd shaped and sided dice, I have already bought Rome Total War, Starmade and upgraded my copy of Europa Universalis III due to topics and posts on here, If I stay much longer I am in real danger of strategically planning my shopping trips with figures and flanking actions :o
Darkspire
LOL. That sounds familiar. ;D
Slitherine is a privately held company. There is no publically traded stock that I can find. The limited information that I can find is that it is a private company and does not provide their financials to anybody (except to the tax people & perhaps creditors if they have any).
Matrix was independent at one point in time. Matrix owned wargamer.com Slithering purchased Matrix including wargamer.
I have had private conversations with some of the Slitherine people. They believe they are in a niche market and can charge premium prices. They clearly have enough cash flow to continue to make acquisitions and to launch new products.
The 480% sales growth number is not substantiated by outside audit like a publically traded company. This does not mean they are making it up, just that it is not like the reporting requirements of a publically traded company.
480% growth also depends on the benchmark on the growth. What the original post questioned is if the base sales level is original Slitherine sales without acquisitions, or if most of the sales growth has been purchased via acquisitions. Or it could be that the sales growth is a combination of acquisitions and organic growth. Either way, it is not illegal or misleading to give a growth figure and not give details on the sources of the revenue growth.
For example, revenue growth could come from acquisitions, selling more of the same stuff at the same price, selling lots of new products, or selling the same stuff at a higher price. Any of these (or any combination) could yield increases in revenues.
This is part of the reason why people go to business school. A competent business school gives people the tools to understand how cash flows work and what they mean in a business sense.
One last thing. Revenues do not equal profits. They are one part of the profit equation with the other component being costs.
Quote from: airboy on August 12, 2013, 10:14:58 AMMatrix was independent at one point in time. Matrix owned wargamer.com Slithering purchased Matrix including wargamer.
Not quite. Matrix did not own Wargamer. David Heath owned WGer. David was also a partner in Matrix. Same guy w/ feet on 2 sides of a fence, but a fence was there. A decent analogy would be that Paul Allen at one point owned the Portland Trailblazers, and he owned part of Microsoft. But Microsoft didn't own the Trailblazers.
Slitherine's purchase of Matrix
did include taking ownership of WGer, though.
Who cares? If they make games I like, I'll buy them, if not, I won't. Is Matrix the same company it was 5 years ago, no but, neither is BattleFront or any other company.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 12, 2013, 06:55:44 AM
Quote from: spelk on August 12, 2013, 06:13:44 AM
So I always thought the Matrix/Slitherine deal was a merger! Two companies sharing the load, so to speak. But from what has been said here, Slitherine bought out Matrix?
I wonder about the identities involved, and why you have such a divided set of communities, and facilities, why they haven't properly integrated the whole lot into a single place. Presumably because it would take a lot of time and money and they might lose some members/customers on the way..?
Slitherine have a store and a dedicated forum community (with developers like Lordz Studio and many others in tow)
Matrix have a store and a dedicated forum community (with lots of developers in tow)
Wargamer.com have a dedicated (if a little lighter) forum community.
All these resources on stores and forum communities could possibly be better served in a single place, with a single identity?
Presumably Matrix is out on top in terms of recognition amongst wargaming communities as the leading seller of games? But Slitherine have been making headway into the mobile market big time, and have even dabbled in TV licensing and what not. It's like Slitherine is the "trendy" side to the whole business. :)
I'm not wishing to labast any company or their current identities, but I would welcome speculation and conjecture on the reasons why they keep all their assets fragmented and disparate. And what would be the consequences for good or ill if they tried to transpose them into a single entity with its own store and forum community.
Maintaining separate identities and separate store fronts is hardly a unique or unusual corporate retail strategy. It widens your market base and permits you to specialize. You've already noted that matrix is better known and respect amongst the wargaming community, whereas Slitherine has a broader appeal. That is the key. You may lose, alienate or confuse your customer base if you consolidated everything under one roof.
Here in the United States, you have large retail chains that specialize in some product or products, but are owned by the same corporate entity. For instance, take Bed Bath and Beyond. This is a rather large department store that sells products for the home. Items for the bedoom, bathroom, kitchen, etc. This company also owns a chain called Harmon. Harmon is like a drug store that sells over the counter medicine, grooming/hygiene products, etc. Finally, Bed Bath and Beyond also owns another large chain called Buy Buy Baby. This large retail outlet sells products exclusively for infants, babies and toddlers. Same company owns all three chains, but they each have different websites and different store fronts.
There is no conspiracy here...just one rational corporate marketing strategy.
+2
Quote from: SgtRock on August 12, 2013, 11:36:57 AM
Who cares? If they make games I like, I'll buy them, if not, I won't. Is Matrix the same company it was 5 years ago, no but, neither is BattleFront or any other company.
I've seen this comment a couple times already.
I care, and I'll tell you why:
Because it has to involve the PC wargaming niche as a whole. So many developers have rushed over to Slitherine, like they're the Second Coming of Christ or something, and now most of the market is under Slitherine's influence. If Slitherine fails, then all of these developers have to either start publishing their own games again, or find another publisher, or go to Steam.
Let's be honest, it's the developers that create the games, and it's their ideas that become the games.
So, it's pretty worrisome. I care for the hard working developers here. The developers are a larger part of the wargaming niche than people give them credit for. The publisher is a much smaller part than people give them credit for.
But feel free to sit behind your computer screen a say: "I like them if they make good computer games. If they don't, I wont buy them. I don't care about anything else."
Sure, that's all good and fine for your wallet. But if these developers disappear, or are influenced to create shallower games by their publishers, then the wargaming niche and the games we all love to play will die out.
Interesting how hard you are grinding this ax.
Quote from: Bison on August 12, 2013, 12:04:15 PM
Interesting how hard you are grinding this ax.
Indeed. Everything is in the post above.
I guess you'd have to be wargaming long enough to have this much emotion tied up into it.
With digital distribution, if one publisher falls another will appear to fill the niche. Look at what happened with Strategy First. Lord only knows how many small developers were ******* over in that fiasco. A few closed, others moved on and found an alternate method to sell their games.
Far as the "controversy" if Matrix/Slitherine is a private held company, is this really an issue?
Quote from: hurryover on August 12, 2013, 12:06:50 PMI guess you'd have to be wargaming long enough to have this much emotion tied up into it.
I dunno - some of us are going on 40 years of wargaming and are still fairly rational about it all...
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2013, 12:30:09 PM
Quote from: hurryover on August 12, 2013, 12:06:50 PMI guess you'd have to be wargaming long enough to have this much emotion tied up into it.
I dunno - some of us are going on 40 years of wargaming and are still fairly rational about it all...
I absolutely agree with that Bayo, even if you are using the term "fairly rational" in a very generous way.
thats an extremely open ended interpretation of rational. ;D
anyhow, if slitherine fails then another company picks up and moves forward. welcome to capitalism. if theres money to be made someone will make it.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on August 12, 2013, 12:38:23 PM
thats an extremely open ended interpretation of rational. ;D
This definition is actually so open-ended, that it's now become irrational. ;D
Quote from: hurryover on August 12, 2013, 12:06:50 PM
Quote from: Bison on August 12, 2013, 12:04:15 PM
Interesting how hard you are grinding this ax.
Indeed. Everything is in the post above.
I guess you'd have to be wargaming long enough to have this much emotion tied up into it.
Or have an axe to grind. Either way how did you learn about grogheads?
This conversation is officially....
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Feiinsider.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F06%2Fderailed-train.jpg&hash=c95ebb9b86b0cb57898299f26e7cb5c3b028a029)
^^ that just means it blends in with all the others around here.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2013, 01:52:15 PM
^^ that just means it blends in with all the others around here.
Some of us are more guilty of that than others, but it's a hallmark of ADHD greatness
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-FI6qOD4Q2Ak%2FTkqF67qYnrI%2FAAAAAAAABWo%2FxMAZbSRbL3M%2Fs1600%2Fasdf.jpg&hash=6a2e89eb3fd5eadc785911af34a60d97d14f35bf)
Quote from: Steelgrave on August 11, 2013, 04:04:23 PM
Anima, I'm putting your account on 24 hold for admin review. Someone coming out of nowhere who's first post is an attack is usually a major red flag.
He makes a fine point. Do we really know how much other factors were taken into account regarding Slitherine's sales increases?
If nothing else, it's a question that should've been asked when the "premium pricing" sales reports were first mentioned here. How did we miss such an obvious question?
Quote from: Nefaro on August 12, 2013, 02:01:16 PM
How did we miss such an obvious question?
i guess we were too busy buying and playing their games...
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2013, 10:25:03 AM
Quote from: airboy on August 12, 2013, 10:14:58 AMMatrix was independent at one point in time. Matrix owned wargamer.com Slithering purchased Matrix including wargamer.
Not quite. Matrix did not own Wargamer. David Heath owned WGer. David was also a partner in Matrix. Same guy w/ feet on 2 sides of a fence, but a fence was there. A decent analogy would be that Paul Allen at one point owned the Portland Trailblazers, and he owned part of Microsoft. But Microsoft didn't own the Trailblazers.
Slitherine's purchase of Matrix did include taking ownership of WGer, though.
What happened to David Heath? Is he still publishing?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 12, 2013, 02:02:38 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on August 12, 2013, 02:01:16 PM
How did we miss such an obvious question?
i guess we were too busy buying and playing their games...
The majority of my Matrix/Slitherine purchases, in the past three years, have been from recent acquisitions of external game companies. Those definitely weren't as "premium priced" as the other in-house titles, either. The standalones were
half the cost of their premium priced ones. The
Scourge of War add-ons,
BOR and
AJE.
The only solely home-published ones I grabbed were a couple of the
Distant Worlds add-ons .. during the sale and that partly because I was sent a gift code for them. I've made far fewer purchases of their own titles in the past few years than I ever have in the past. Probably because most of it is still the same 'ole WW2 stuff and now iPad titles.
This should've definitely made me question whether their overall sales increases was indeed due to the success of their premium-priced titles. Perhaps they were only referring to their iPad stuff?? I dunno.. but I have doubts as to whether their Panther Games, WitE, WitP-AE eighty dollar line-ups are sole contributors to a 480% increase in their sales.
I like the game company, but their pricing on some titles scare all but the die-hards away and judging by past forum feedback on their priciest ones, they can't be responsible for such a large sales increase if using these premium PC titles as the cause.
Quote from: Nefaro on August 12, 2013, 02:37:01 PM
I've made far fewer purchases of their own titles in the past few years than I ever have in the past. Probably because most of it is still the same 'ole WW2 stuff and now iPad titles.
Bingo. Bango. Bongo.
I just passed on purchasing Germany at War because it looked like just another WW2 game we've already seen before. And by judging from the lack of feedback I got from my thread about it, I think others did the same.
I guess having to actually good to work today I missed the evolution of this brew-ha-ha, but I'll throw a few bullet items on the fire here having 1). been at the event where the quoted information was given and 2) being a developer working on a title to be published by Matrix/Slitherine (M/S).
- I don't know if it matter what kind of number get floated out by folks during presentations. I believe the official universal axiom is "there are lies, damn, lies, and statistics". I believe the points being made at Historicon were on various topics of growth. They have gone from no mobile titles 3 year ago to several now. Those titles are selling well (mainly in Europe right now). Hence large growth in that area. That growth factors into the M/S bottom line.
- As a result of this growth in other areas, M/S is looking to make more push into the mobile market with real strategy games. No candy crush temple run of angry birds. Real strategy titles that work on the mobile interface and resources. As an aside, I'm not going to squabble cost models. When you pay 99 cents for a hundred lines or even 10,000 line of code maybe its worth it. What do you pay at 500,000 to a cool million lines? Just askin'.
- Also with this growth Slitherine joined forces with AGEOD and at Historicon stated they had a deal with Lordz Studio. That's it. Everyone else is an independent developer using them as a publisher. That's what we are doing.
So as far as I can tell the M/S/A/L group is doing fine. They have a good number of titles in the works for both the PC and mobile (ios platforms). And they have a wide offering of strategy titles that most Grogs will find something to like.
Maybe I missed the whole point of the OP. If I did sorry. It was a long day.
Thanks. I got to get back to Red Storm now...
I think you nailed it, Cap'n.
Quote from: Nefaro on August 12, 2013, 02:37:01 PM
Perhaps they were only referring to their iPad stuff??
Bingo! This is it. Looking only at iPad, and the article is about iPad, it all makes sense.
Their first iPad game was an uninspired Egypt Engineering. An Empire, Civ Lite game which I bet did not sell well.
It was followed by hugely successful Battle Academy. Surely comparing the sales of those two would be 480% increase in sales.
Now if only someone from Slitherine comes out and explains where this exactly 480% figure came from.
But they are not obliged to do so.
You don't really think you're going to get someone over here from S&M, do you? :-\
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2013, 06:31:52 PM
You don't really think you're going to get someone over here from S&M, do you? :-\
S&M ?!!!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.timothysykes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F04%2Fthe-gimp.jpg&hash=1697a08d02152d43780761ac76353586bd8195b3)
We hope not.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2013, 06:31:52 PM
You don't really think you're going to get someone over here from S&M, do you? :-\
S&M wont come over here. It's in there best interests to keep people believing they had a 480% increase in sales, not including acquisitions. It supports their product price points.
Quote from: hurryover on August 12, 2013, 07:26:51 PM
It supports their product price points.
I think that this was the entire goal of their declaration for "480% increase", a justification.
BS. Maybe we should all rather they shrunk by 480% and went out of business dragging down a wealth of fine wargames with them.
Frankly, I could care less what their numbers are so long as they are in a position to keep feeding my habit. I'm not buying stock, I'm buying wargames. I'm far more concerned about misleading numbers coming out of the mouths of Congressmen, the President, Wall Street types and bankers than I am from a gaming company. 4%, 48%, 480% up or down....who gives a rodent's anatomical exit anyway? As long as they are doing well enough to stay in business it means that someone is buying their product. I'm good with that.
Quote from: Bison on August 12, 2013, 08:42:41 PM
Maybe we should all rather they shrunk by 480% and went out of business dragging down a wealth of fine wargames with them.
This presumes that Slitherine is the only publisher in the world. Developers can always move to other publishers such as Battlefront, Paradox, Storm Eagle Studios, Naval Warfare Simulations, etc. or do it themselves. The demise of one publisher is not the end of an industry. The retail product will certainly be different, though.
I buy what I like.
Just like I make what I like.
I'm currently working on my second game that Matrix will publish. My only take on it is, if they are selling lots of games they are more stable and they have a large client base for us to sell our games to.
I could care less what their numbers are. I've been a financial advisor before was well. We had a saying too, "Figures don't lie, but Liars can figure."
Are they still open for business? That's my one and only concern.
I hope you like our next game from them. Flash Point Campaigns: Red Storm. If not, maybe something else they sell will be for you.
Good Hunting.
Hello, MR and welcome to the forums!
Quote from: Mad Russian on August 12, 2013, 09:06:40 PM
I hope you like our next game from them. Flash Point Campaigns: Red Storm.
Hello. Day one purchase.
Quote from: Steelgrave on August 12, 2013, 09:08:01 PM
Hello, MR and welcome to the forums!
Thanks. I'm a little late getting here.
Been really busy this past 18 months working on games for you guys to play. I hope to bump Matrix' numbers up to 500%....:)
Good Hunting.
Quote from: Mad Russian on August 12, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on August 12, 2013, 09:08:01 PM
Hello, MR and welcome to the forums!
Thanks. I'm a little late getting here.
Been really busy this past 18 months working on games for you guys to play. I hope to bump Matrix' numbers up to 500%....:)
Good Hunting.
Awesome.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 12, 2013, 09:09:00 PM
Quote from: Mad Russian on August 12, 2013, 09:06:40 PM
I hope you like our next game from them. Flash Point Campaigns: Red Storm.
Hello. Day one purchase.
Ive been enjoying getting away from WW2.
It's about damn time Mad Russian! Good to have you here!
Hurra, Mad Russian is here :)
...wait until you guys see his outstanding scenario design, the upcoming FC (series, i hope) will be a new classic i bet 8)
and btw, if i would be about to buy into Slitherine, i give a damn about sales numbers bragging
its all about ROI and EBIT !
and the hard number in the Financial Statements of the past years.
(and even those can be 'doctored' -without breaking a law- by company purchases and shifting accounting between subunits of the group. Stunts pulled by the CFO and his specialist layers accountants)
Quote from: hurryover on August 12, 2013, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: SgtRock on August 12, 2013, 11:36:57 AM
Who cares? If they make games I like, I'll buy them, if not, I won't. Is Matrix the same company it was 5 years ago, no but, neither is BattleFront or any other company.
I've seen this comment a couple times already.
I care, and I'll tell you why:
Because it has to involve the PC wargaming niche as a whole. So many developers have rushed over to Slitherine, like they're the Second Coming of Christ or something, and now most of the market is under Slitherine's influence. If Slitherine fails, then all of these developers have to either start publishing their own games again, or find another publisher, or go to Steam.
Let's be honest, it's the developers that create the games, and it's their ideas that become the games.
So, it's pretty worrisome. I care for the hard working developers here. The developers are a larger part of the wargaming niche than people give them credit for. The publisher is a much smaller part than people give them credit for.
But feel free to sit behind your computer screen a say: "I like them if they make good computer games. If they don't, I wont buy them. I don't care about anything else."
Sure, that's all good and fine for your wallet. But if these developers disappear, or are influenced to create shallower games by their publishers, then the wargaming niche and the games we all love to play will die out.
Your wrong, If Matrix/Slitherine closed today Gary Grigsby and others would still make games only they would be sold/published by someone else. Just look at Fury Software makers of Strategic Command Series, they are currently sold by Battlefront but, their new games will be sold/published by Matrix/Slitherine. Many Developers are going to Matrix/Slitherine because they are the largest seller/publisher of wargames and can offer things smaller publishers can't. In another few years the Matrix Games name will likely just go away as Slitherine consolidates the web sites, forums & purchasing systems. If Slitherine continues to keep developers happy they'll stay, if not they will go elsewhere.
I'm not a fan of Slithereen/Matrix either.
They fumbled the ball as far as I'm concerned with the Actung Panzer Operation Star(GTOS) series.
Matrix made a lot of empty promises about selling the game at a higher price,but that they would keep the game updated and current so you wouldn't have to learn the patching process and also offer any new DLCs for the game the same way.
So far the only promise they kept was selling the base game for a higher price then anyone else.
No support,no new DLCs for the game being sold by them,no updated version of the base game-Nothing!
One of the moronic and idiotic reasons they gave for lack of support for the game was-they didn't have exclusive rights to the game.
I guess what they actually meant was they didn't have the right to exclusively gouge you.
Leaving you with no other choice but to eat the garbage they are exclusively serving you and over charging you for!
They obviously don't like competition.Especially,since it means they would have to actually work for your dollar.
I wasn't pleased with the way they handled APOS(Go figure)and I'm very sceptical of their business practices,motives and sales figures also.
Hopefully,they will never publish anything I would actually want and only "they" have the exclusive rights to it.Then that could actually kind of suck!!
They can run their shop however they like and see fit,just not with my cash.
So to me this is just another example of typical corporate BS.Exact exclusive rights,buy out or undercut the competition till they are no longer a threat to your way of doing business.Then raise the price while gradually lowering the content,quality and service.
At the same time feeding you bunch of garbage about how great their product is and no one or any one else for that matter does it better and how lucky you are to have a great company like this to serve your "niche" gaming needs,Ad infintum-nausea etc...(Rriight!Blow some more smoke up my ass.I can still see some daylight and I can still remember what it looked like).
Stroking your ego and pick pocketing you at the same time.Nice try and no thank you,Slithereen/Matrix.Find another sucker,I'm not swallowing none of that garbage!
Well said, Dolan. Lack of support is one of the reasons I don't like them too, and that example you gave is horrid. Like you, I refuse to do business with them after learning the hard way.
They used to be shady with prices too, many years ago. I can't remember what, exactly, it was. Something to do with the VAT charge I think.
Quote from: Dolan50 on August 14, 2013, 12:18:32 PM
I'm not a fan of Slithereen/Matrix either.
They fumbled the ball as far as I'm concerned with the Actung Panzer Operation Star(GTOS) series.
Matrix made a lot of empty promises about selling the game at a higher price,but that they would keep the game updated and current so you wouldn't have to learn the patching process and also offer any new DLCs for the game the same way.
One of the moronic and idiotic reasons they gave for lack of support for the game was-they didn't have exclusive rights to the game.
I guess what they actually meant was they didn't have the right to exclusively gouge you.
Leaving you with no other choice but to eat the garbage they are exclusively serving you and over charging you for!
Since I was involved with Panzer Command Ostfront (PCO), a game that they also didn't own the rights to I may be able to shed some light on this.
Matrix is a publisher not a designer/developer. In the case of PCO they had a similar issue. Several of us worked on the game update. A patch. But it dragged on and on. 3 years worth of on and on. In the end we made so many changes to the code that we were given credit for it, and paid, and they released what started as a patch as a new game. For free to previous owners of the series. That's not price gouging.
In fact, they paid not only the owners of the code but the entire patch team turned developers.
Any software company, pick any name you like and insert it here at any time you like, is in the same boat. Things change with software development. If you don't own the code there is only so much you can do. Where this all comes to burn a hole in gamers is in the support areas. For me personally, I WILL NOT buy a game from a company where the game is released with so many bugs in it that it won't play. I'm not paying the company to beta test for them. I'm just not.
So, we all have our issues with game developers as well as publishers. I would say you are looking at the wrong problem. Matrix can't give you what it doesn't have. I would look at who the developers of your games are. If they do updates, expansions, patches, etc. you can feel confident in buying more of their products. If they don't, then you make the decision of whether or not you want to buy any more of their products.
Quote from: Dolan50 on August 14, 2013, 12:18:32 PM
They obviously don't like competition.Especially,since it means they would have to actually work for your dollar.
Matrix doesn't work for your dollar now. They simply sell other people's games. As has been pointed out, if it wasn't them it would be someone else. The same rules and restrictions would require the next company to make a profit as well and they would not have any more control than Matrix has if they didn't own the code.
Quote from: Dolan50 on August 14, 2013, 12:18:32 PM
Hopefully,they will never publish anything I would actually want and only "they" have the exclusive rights to it.Then that could actually kind of suck!!
They can run their shop however they like and see fit,just not with my cash.
They do. They sell games. We either buy them from their site or we don't.
Quote from: Dolan50 on August 14, 2013, 12:18:32 PM
So to me this is just another example of typical corporate BS.Exact exclusive rights,buy out or undercut the competition till they are no longer a threat to your way of doing business.Then raise the price while gradually lowering the content,quality and service.
At the same time feeding you bunch of garbage about how great their product is and no one or any one else for that matter does it better and how lucky you are to have a great company like this to serve your "niche" gaming needs,Ad infintum-nausea etc...(Rriight!Blow some more smoke up my ass.I can still see some daylight and I can still remember what it looked like).
Stroking your ego and pick pocketing you at the same time.Nice try and no thank you,Slithereen/Matrix.Find another sucker,I'm not swallowing none of that garbage!
As has been pointed out, there are other places for you to buy your games.
I have games for sale at Matrix. I hope to have more soon. I may well have games for sale at other locations as well. I don't see the issue. If you like what they sell, buy it. If you don't like their products. Don't buy them. A healthy dose of reality on how the system works and what is and is not reality is also a good thing when buying a product.
Pricing is a whole other issue.
Good Hunting and Good Gaming to you!!
I'm not interested in getting anything published by them,and I do buy my games elsewhere.
So,I have no vested interest in spouting or chanting the party line.
The subject was about misleading statements by gaming companies.
Matrix mislead its customers about APOS as I stated above.
With that said they no longer have my support or cash.
I have no doubt that people will have other opinions contrary to mine,but that doesn't concern me.I'm not interested in what the collective thinks.
You make a game I like and support it in a equitable fashion,you get my praise.
If you don't,then you get my two cents worth of contrary opinion.
Quote from: Mad Russian on August 14, 2013, 01:58:28 PM
So, we all have our issues with game developers as well as publishers. I would say you are looking at the wrong problem. Matrix can't give you what it doesn't have. I would look at who the developers of your games are. If they do updates, expansions, patches, etc. you can feel confident in buying more of their products. If they don't, then you make the decision of whether or not you want to buy any more of their products.
Matrix doesn't work for your dollar now. They simply sell other people's games. As has been pointed out, if it wasn't them it would be someone else. The same rules and restrictions would require the next company to make a profit as well and they would not have any more control than Matrix has if they didn't own the code.
It is correct that a publisher does not own the source code. It's not like they can conduct a Ninja operation and take the source code from the developers. Basically, the only decision a publisher gets to really make is to either accept or reject the code as presented to them. They can request (not demand) changes, but really cannot do much else other than reject whatever is offered to them. They can't fix bugs or add features.
That being said, they remain part of the problem because they accept whatever is placed before them regardless of the condition of the game. One prominent example is Naval War Arctic Circle, published by Paradox. The game came out in such a monstrously buggy state that there were many reports of customers unable to even start the game. After only six months, Paradox announced that there would be no future development for the title and recognized all the problems in the game.
Now, it would be easy to praise Paradox for this course of action. However, the game is still listed for sale under their catalogue. They are quite willing to continue to take the cash for a game which even Paradox recognizes as faulty and bug-ridden. It's like finding contaminated food in a restaurant, having the health authority shut the business down, and then allowing them to re-open and sell the exact same food because they had warned customers and it is 'buyer beware'.
Mad Russian, I am a big fan of the work you and others did in creating the 'update' that eventually became PC: Ostfront. May I be so bold as to ask what you are working on now?
Thanks for your kind words about PCO. That one was a lot of labor. More so than usual.
Before that, I did a few scenarios, with a group called HSG - which I started, for the Combat Mission series. Some of you may have played those as well.
I joined the On Target Simulations development group as the scenario designer/gamer/researcher/gopher, we are doing a complete rework of Flash Point Germany. The new system is called Flash Point Campaigns.
The rework is set in the first week of the Cold War gone HOT in West Germany in July, 1989.
After this release there will be other theaters, periods, wars looked at.
Cold War different time periods
Middle East
Vietnam
Korea
Falklands
India/Pakistan
Iran/Iraq
Soviet Union/Afghanistan
WWII
Everything from WWII through the distant future should be adaptable to the system. It is also highly user moddable.
For those that are interested you can see the details of the game/series here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=1197
As usual, with any project I'm associate with, comments/suggestions are welcome.
Good Hunting.
Outstanding!
You know, we are actually following that game's development here already: http://grogheads.com/?p=2032
My 2 cents
They sure as hell dropped the ball on APOS. Things were said and they were not followed up on. I can certainly understand the bad taste in some people's mouth over that one. Unity of Command was another one where the patches and DLC were late. I will not buy games at Matrix that they are not the sole distributor of, won't do it. That being said on the whole I'm happy with the support i've got through the years from Matrix and the developers whose games i've bought. I am a definite fan boy of certain developers, namely Vic and Panther games. You only have to read the game forums to see the level of dedication some developers have towards their products. When it's in an area of my interest these are the developers i will support with my dollars whether their games are sold at Matrix or somewhere else.
I could be totally misremembering, but didn't Matrix come out and say that they had so many developers now that they were not going to sell any additional games that were not exclusive to them?
Quote from: Mad Russian on August 14, 2013, 08:50:55 PMAs usual, with any project I'm associate with, comments/suggestions are welcome.
You might want to open a Flashpoint Campaigns specific thread to support this request. It would make folks' feedback easier to find w/o wading through other discussions to get to it
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 15, 2013, 06:04:30 AM
Quote from: Mad Russian on August 14, 2013, 08:50:55 PMAs usual, with any project I'm associate with, comments/suggestions are welcome.
You might want to open a Flashpoint Campaigns specific thread to support this request. It would make folks' feedback easier to find w/o wading through other discussions to get to it
Brant,
I will do that this evening! Thanks!
do it now. by the time you get in this evening youll have a page or 2.
procrastination is the hallmark of... squirrle!
Ill get back to this later.
thread opened http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=7155
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-FI6qOD4Q2Ak%2FTkqF67qYnrI%2FAAAAAAAABWo%2FxMAZbSRbL3M%2Fs1600%2Fasdf.jpg&hash=6a2e89eb3fd5eadc785911af34a60d97d14f35bf)