I can't find anything on their website yet, but it's been announced both here (http://www.strategycore.co.uk/news/viva-espana/) and here (http://www.wargamer.com/article/3416/screenshots-feature-ageod%27s-espana-1936).
I'm normally not into war/strategy games set during the last century or so, but (like Revolution Under Siege) this one could be an exception to the rule. I've not seen the Spanish Civil War featured in its own game til now.
Very interesting choice by AGEOD! Will register for comment tracking as we go. (Could this be their first attempts at adjusting their engine for 20th century war? Pride of Nations goes right up to the line.)
Wow very interesting, thanks for posting Martok.
From the Strategy Core website....a few details but not alot. http://www.strategycore.co.uk/news/viva-espana/
And from Matrix....http://www.wargamer.com/article/3416/screenshots-feature-ageod's-espana-1936
I posted both those links in the OP, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to show them again. ;)
It looks VERY intriguing. I really like Revolution under Siege - this could be fun. :) 8)
Quote from: Martok on September 05, 2013, 01:51:13 PM
I posted both those links in the OP, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to show them again. ;)
Oops...! :-\
...a slight delay for the release. Tomorrow instead of today. Considering my backlog, I think I can wait.
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?32549-Slight-delay
The game is out tomorrow? Holy cow AGEOD is really pumping out the games lately.
I hate to beat a dead horse but this game has excellent ambiance with respect to visuals. Note the lack of the silver Windows XP screens (which kind of look like WitP screens) that really ticked me off in Civil War 2. The interface windows all seem to mesh with the map and unit colors giving an overall look and finish suitable for the time period. Sorry to sound so shallow without considering gameplay but España 1936 appears to be a game that is more AGEOD like and less Matrixy in appearance.
Quote from: W8taminute on October 01, 2013, 10:38:49 AM
The game is out tomorrow? Holy cow AGEOD is really pumping out the games lately.
No kidding. I just picked up CW2. Still have yet to finished multiple other AGEOD games' scenarios.
This looks to be one of the extra dev teams working on it (like AJE, RUS). The more the merrier, although I dunno when I'll get around to this one. So overloaded.
QuoteI hate to beat a dead horse but this game has excellent ambiance with respect to visuals. Note the lack of the silver Windows XP screens (which kind of look like WitP screens) that really ticked me off in Civil War 2. The interface windows all seem to mesh with the map and unit colors giving an overall look and finish suitable for the time period. Sorry to sound so shallow without considering gameplay but España 1936 appears to be a game that is more AGEOD like and less Matrixy in appearance.
I have especially been missing the eight Stance & Aggressiveness buttons out in the open, in Civil War 2. Now they are just one button each that you must press to open the full range of options. So it's just extra added button pushing to reach them. Bad decision, there.
I also like the old artsy interface, but the art for Espana looks a bit rough. Perhaps it was just the poor quality screenshots I've seen thus far. The map also looks really bright orange & yellow, like you're on Mars. :P The artwork doesn't look as good as many others IMO.
GD! This company need to slow down. I'm not finished with AJE and BoR yet.
Quote from: Martok on September 05, 2013, 11:19:25 AM
I've not seen the Spanish Civil War featured in its own game til now.
You weren't looking hard enough.
http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/SB/SCW/SCW.html
Quote from: Nefaro on October 01, 2013, 01:34:13 PM
I have especially been missing the eight Stance & Aggressiveness buttons out in the open, in Civil War 2. Now they are just one button each that you must press to open the full range of options. So it's just extra added button pushing to reach them. Bad decision, there.
Yeah that sounds rough. Those buttons were key for me in ACW to get my fronts to hold during high activity.
Quote from: NefaroI also like the old artsy interface, but the art for Espana looks a bit rough. Perhaps it was just the poor quality screenshots I've seen thus far. The map also looks really bright orange & yellow, like you're on Mars. :P The artwork doesn't look as good as many others IMO.
Now that you mention it the choice of colors for the map are kind of strange. There also appears to be slight differences in color in some of the screenshots. I wonder if it's meant to symbolize season or possession? Spain is a country with a lot of browns in the country side during summer however, so I guess the color choices make sense.
Quote from: jomni on October 02, 2013, 12:11:15 AM
Quote from: Martok on September 05, 2013, 11:19:25 AM
I've not seen the Spanish Civil War featured in its own game til now.
You weren't looking hard enough.
http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/SB/SCW/SCW.html
Yeah, I have that but the operational aspect of the war interest me more. I wonder if there's an option for the democracies to have pulled their collective thumbs out.
..its out. $30 digital/$40 box+digital (http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1223/The.Spanish.Civil.War.relives.in.Espana.1936..). Maybe I'll git it for the weekend...
Looks good. Like a RUS variant. Might as well get it but I just bought a lot of games recently. :/
So many games, so little time.... But it's AGEOD, so will be a good 'un. 8)
Are there Germans in the OOB?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 02, 2013, 06:54:24 PM
Are there Germans in the OOB?
AGEOD are usually pretty good at their historical TOE's. I shouldn't be surprised if you see the German, Italian, Russian, and International volunteers represented. I wonder if there is a political option for Guernica, which was a double edged event in many ways.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 02, 2013, 06:54:24 PM
Are there Germans in the OOB?
German equipment appears but evidently under the Nationalist icon. Germans would be using them.
Quote from: jomni on October 02, 2013, 12:11:15 AM
Quote from: Martok on September 05, 2013, 11:19:25 AM
I've not seen the Spanish Civil War featured in its own game til now.
You weren't looking hard enough.
http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/SB/SCW/SCW.html
Let me rephrase: I'd not seen a strategic/operational game featuring the SCW til now.
Quote from: steve58 on October 02, 2013, 06:04:05 PM
..its out. $30 digital/$40 box+digital (http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1223/The.Spanish.Civil.War.relives.in.Espana.1936..). Maybe I'll git it for the weekend...
Eek! Too soon for me -- not enough time!
[Let me rephrase: I'd not seen a strategic/operational game featuring the SCW til now.]
True. I'm preparing for my review by reading Beevor's The Battle for Spain.
What...?
No, "someone should make this World War 2!" posts??!?
:P
Quote from: Nefaro on October 03, 2013, 05:06:30 PM
What...?
No, "someone should make this World War 2!" posts??!?
:P
This is already World War 2 (only a few years early).
Quote from: jomni on October 03, 2013, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on October 03, 2013, 05:06:30 PM
What...?
No, "someone should make this World War 2!" posts??!?
:P
This is already World War 2 (only a few years early).
You missed the point of my post. :-\
No worries someone usually picks up on it, eventually. Someone similarly sick of WW2 overload. ;)
Quote from: Nefaro on October 03, 2013, 05:06:30 PM
What...?
No, "someone should make this World War 2!" posts??!?
:P
This is a test. ;D
Can someone recommend a good World War 2 game to me? You don't really see too many of those types of games out there.
Ok I couldn't resist a good gag. Anyway did anyone pick up this game and give it a try? I'm hungry for first impressions by people I can trust.
AGEOD's Espana 1936 - I'm not a big fan of AGEOD but, this one looks interesting.
Questions:
1. Is there any type of editor editor for what if's?
2. Can you mod this game?
No eitor; can't say about modding.
This release caught me totally off guard, in a good way!
If this is made by the same development team that made RUS, it's going to be great. What day is it today? It's "Buy another AGEOD game" day.
Quote from: jomni on October 03, 2013, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on October 03, 2013, 05:06:30 PM
What...?
No, "someone should make this World War 2!" posts??!?
:P
This is already World War 2 (only a few years early).
It was a sort of a Kickstarter Alpha build of WW2 with the main backers sending guns, planes, and 'volunteers' instead of Amazon bucks.
+1 LOL!
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on October 05, 2013, 08:33:22 AM
If this is made by the same development team that made RUS, it's going to be great.
The lead developer is a fellow named Miguel Santacruz de la Torre. He stated in an interview that the project started out as a mod of
Revolution Under Siege, and eventually grew into a standalone game.
So it's not the same dev team, but it sounds like he has based
Espana off of their work (to at least some degree). :)
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on October 05, 2013, 08:33:22 AM
What day is it today? It's "Buy another AGEOD game" day.
Should you feel so inclined, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one after you've played it for a bit. I've been mildly intrigued by
Espana since its announcement (perhaps because it seems similar to
RUS, which I purchased last year).
Quote from: Bismarck on October 03, 2013, 01:27:06 PM
[Let me rephrase: I'd not seen a strategic/operational game featuring the SCW til now.]
True. I'm preparing for my review by reading Beevor's The Battle for Spain.
Don't forget he has written two books on it now. IIRC BfS was published in the mid '80's and his later book IIRC in the late '90's. I don't know how they compare together, but it might be worth checking the other through your local library - if it's not closed to the Federal shutdown?? ::) Good author though. :)
I'm also reading Stanley Payne's book on the SCW.
Quote from: jomni on October 02, 2013, 12:11:15 AM
Quote from: Martok on September 05, 2013, 11:19:25 AM
I've not seen the Spanish Civil War featured in its own game til now.
You weren't looking hard enough.
http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/SB/SCW/SCW.html
On the operational/strategic level Hearts of Iron 2 Doomsday Armageddon, Hearts of Iron 2 Arsenal of Democracy, and Hearts of Iron 3 Finest Hour all have full Spanish Civil War scenarios from start to end.
It is fair to say that the SCW has not been done in the same detail, as the AGEOD title, but without doubt there are other SCW operational/strategic games out there as indicated. John Tiller's Squad Battles: Spanish Civil War is good fun at the tactical level too, and features scenarios right from the start to the end of the war, for a good flavour of the fighting experienced. There are also some tactical SCW scenarios with Steel Panthers WW2 and SPWAW, although not as many as with the John Tiller game.
Quote from: Bismarck on October 05, 2013, 07:37:39 PM
I'm also reading Stanley Payne's book on the SCW.
What do you think of it?
Quote from: Boggit on October 05, 2013, 07:46:49 PM
Quote from: Bismarck on October 05, 2013, 07:37:39 PM
I'm also reading Stanley Payne's book on the SCW.
What do you think of it?
I misspoke; I will read Payne's work.
Quote from: Boggit on October 05, 2013, 07:45:56 PM
Quote from: jomni on October 02, 2013, 12:11:15 AM
Quote from: Martok on September 05, 2013, 11:19:25 AM
I've not seen the Spanish Civil War featured in its own game til now.
You weren't looking hard enough.
http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/SB/SCW/SCW.html
On the operational/strategic level Hearts of Iron 2 Doomsday Armageddon, Hearts of Iron 2 Arsenal of Democracy, and Hearts of Iron 3 Finest Hour all have full Spanish Civil War scenarios from start to end.
It is fair to say that the SCW has not been done in the same detail, as the AGEOD title, but without doubt there are other SCW operational/strategic games out there as indicated. John Tiller's Squad Battles: Spanish Civil War is good fun at the tactical level too, and features scenarios right from the start to the end of the war, for a good flavour of the fighting experienced. There are also some tactical SCW scenarios with Steel Panthers WW2 and SPWAW, although not as many as with the John Tiller game.
I hang my head in shame!
Quote from: Boggit on October 05, 2013, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: Bismarck on October 03, 2013, 01:27:06 PM
[Let me rephrase: I'd not seen a strategic/operational game featuring the SCW til now.]
True. I'm preparing for my review by reading Beevor's The Battle for Spain.
Don't forget he has written two books on it now. IIRC BfS was published in the mid '80's and his later book IIRC in the late '90's. I don't know how they compare together, but it might be worth checking the other through your local library - if it's not closed to the Federal shutdown?? ::) Good author though. :)
Hi Boggit!
I used to have his original book, called
Spanish Civil War, published in 1982, and he revised and updated it considerably to have it republished as
Battle for Spain in 2006. The more recent one is the better find, though I still think that Hugh Thomas's
Spanish Civil War has a lot to offer.
Don't forget Ronald Fraser's
Blood of Spain which is simply excellent as an addition to the coverage of the war, being based on interviews with several hundred Spanish participants.
Bill
Quote from: Bismarck on October 05, 2013, 08:32:15 PM
I misspoke; I will read Payne's work.
I just picked this up for my Kindle, and have started reading it in preparation for playing
Espana 1936. I know next to nothing about the SCW.
A fairly quick read is George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia, which as well as giving his own views of his involvement in the war, is the raw material from his life which was part of the process in leading him to write Animal Farm and 1984.
It shouldn't be read in isolation, but it does help show the atmosphere in one part of Spain six months or so into the war.
I re-read it recently, for the umpteenth time, and found it useful as I'm currently writing a set of rules for my 20mm miniatures.
Payne is a very well-respected prof at University-Madison-WI.
Quote from: W8taminute on October 04, 2013, 10:39:10 AM
Can someone recommend a good World War 2 game to me? You don't really see too many of those types of games out there.
Ok I couldn't resist a good gag. Anyway did anyone pick up this game and give it a try? I'm hungry for first impressions by people I can trust.
I don't know how trustworthy I am, but I'm not a big fan of AGEOD games as a rule. For some reason I'm enjoying Espana quite a bit -- first it is a nutty war and second the AGEOD system seems to be working -- there are trains and battleships and various airplanes and armored cars and Anarchists and whatnot. I'm playing the Loyalists so they don't have much in the way of trained troops or leaders or equipment at the start (maybe 12 serviceable recon planes and 20-30 armored cars). they do have a nice cruiser, a battleship or two, a few dozen destroyers and some transports.
I knew that historically, the Loyalists missed some chances at sea in the early days so I got the ships out patrolling: result -- missed an amphibious invasion or two I think, had some DDs shot up and Sank a Nationalist Battleship, I think.
In other news -- There are all kinds of "political" options -- for example you play the region card "Send me some Bombers" on the Moscow box which is off on the side under the Fascist Assistance Box and above the "Convoy Zone" Box. So I imagine I'll be defeated horribly on the first run while I figure out how the various options work. I thought about asking the Nazis for some bombers by dropping the please send me some bombers card in their box, but so far I'm expecting more from Moscow. At least it is a big box.
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 05, 2013, 12:38:55 PM
Very interesting choice by AGEOD! Will register for comment tracking as we go. (Could this be their first attempts at adjusting their engine for 20th century war? Pride of Nations goes right up to the line.)
There was Revolution under Seige (RUS) about the Russian Civil War post WWI. Espana seems to have been built off of that structure -- which features railroads and armor and aircraft.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on October 07, 2013, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: Bismarck on October 05, 2013, 08:32:15 PM
I misspoke; I will read Payne's work.
I just picked this up for my Kindle, and have started reading it in preparation for playing Espana 1936. I know next to nothing about the SCW.
Um... early Nazi technology testing, some squiggly paintings, and a guy with eyeballs on his hands, I think? And then Italy invaded.
My impressions are admittedly kind of scattershot. :)
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 09, 2013, 02:11:39 PM
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on October 07, 2013, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: Bismarck on October 05, 2013, 08:32:15 PM
I misspoke; I will read Payne's work.
I just picked this up for my Kindle, and have started reading it in preparation for playing Espana 1936. I know next to nothing about the SCW.
Um... early Nazi technology testing, some squiggly paintings, and a guy with eyeballs on his hands, I think? And then Italy invaded.
My impressions are admittedly kind of scattershot. :)
There's the Mexican Suitcase thing too:
http://museum.icp.org/mexican_suitcase/
Quote from: MengJiao on October 09, 2013, 11:08:28 AM
I don't know how trustworthy I am, but I'm not a big fan of AGEOD games as a rule. For some reason I'm enjoying Espana quite a bit -- first it is a nutty war and second the AGEOD system seems to be working -- there are trains and battleships and various airplanes and armored cars and Anarchists and whatnot. I'm playing the Loyalists so they don't have much in the way of trained troops or leaders or equipment at the start (maybe 12 serviceable recon planes and 20-30 armored cars). they do have a nice cruiser, a battleship or two, a few dozen destroyers and some transports.
I knew that historically, the Loyalists missed some chances at sea in the early days so I got the ships out patrolling: result -- missed an amphibious invasion or two I think, had some DDs shot up and Sank a Nationalist Battleship, I think.
In other news -- There are all kinds of "political" options -- for example you play the region card "Send me some Bombers" on the Moscow box which is off on the side under the Fascist Assistance Box and above the "Convoy Zone" Box. So I imagine I'll be defeated horribly on the first run while I figure out how the various options work. I thought about asking the Nazis for some bombers by dropping the please send me some bombers card in their box, but so far I'm expecting more from Moscow. At least it is a big box.
Thanks for the feedback,
MengJiao. So far, this still sounds like one I'm going to have to get.
Quote from: Martok on October 10, 2013, 01:59:06 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on October 09, 2013, 11:08:28 AM
I don't know how trustworthy I am, but I'm not a big fan of AGEOD games as a rule. For some reason I'm enjoying Espana quite a bit -- first it is a nutty war and second the AGEOD system seems to be working -- there are trains and battleships and various airplanes and armored cars and Anarchists and whatnot. I'm playing the Loyalists so they don't have much in the way of trained troops or leaders or equipment at the start (maybe 12 serviceable recon planes and 20-30 armored cars). they do have a nice cruiser, a battleship or two, a few dozen destroyers and some transports.
I knew that historically, the Loyalists missed some chances at sea in the early days so I got the ships out patrolling: result -- missed an amphibious invasion or two I think, had some DDs shot up and Sank a Nationalist Battleship, I think.
In other news -- There are all kinds of "political" options -- for example you play the region card "Send me some Bombers" on the Moscow box which is off on the side under the Fascist Assistance Box and above the "Convoy Zone" Box. So I imagine I'll be defeated horribly on the first run while I figure out how the various options work. I thought about asking the Nazis for some bombers by dropping the please send me some bombers card in their box, but so far I'm expecting more from Moscow. At least it is a big box.
Thanks for the feedback, MengJiao. So far, this still sounds like one I'm going to have to get.
I would recommend it to anyone who is at all interested in the Spanish Civil War (it attempts to represent a lot about the war) AND knows what they are getting into with an AGEOD game. In fact it might be absurdly unplayable for somebody who was only a beginner at the AGEODs. In fact it is probably the most difficult of the AGEODs I have seen. At least for the Loyalists, which is the only faction I have played so far. I think I have only kept the Republican Regime going so far by always reviewing what a good Prussian would do under the circumstances -- and I don't mean Frederick, I mean Prince Henry at his best late in the Seven-years war with powerful enemies every where. So I've made gains up north by drawing the Nationalists south with pretty wild moves. I don't think I can hold the south, but I've chewed up the railroads and left Seville a heavily bombed and plundered burning ruin. Yes, the Russians sent in some bombers. Getting a big army back out of Seville with Nationalists and Italians and Panzers closing in from all sides was interesting, but with the SB-2s blasting the region and the International Bridges and Mixed Brigades coming up, it was just barely possible.
The more I think about it, the more it seems that -- for less experienced players -- the Nationalists might be a good way to start playing the game.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 09, 2013, 02:11:39 PM
some squiggly paintings, and a guy with eyeballs on his hands, I think?
Ooh ooh, I think I know this one! Guernica by Pabblo Picasso, and some painting by Salidor Dali?
What do I win? ;D
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on October 10, 2013, 10:15:42 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 09, 2013, 02:11:39 PM
some squiggly paintings, and a guy with eyeballs on his hands, I think?
Ooh ooh, I think I know this one! Guernica by Pabblo Picasso, and some painting by Salidor Dali?
What do I win? ;D
The last one is from Pan's Labyrinth, an extremely good (and bizarre) movie (if you can stand subtitles).
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on October 10, 2013, 10:15:42 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 09, 2013, 02:11:39 PM
some squiggly paintings, and a guy with eyeballs on his hands, I think?
Ooh ooh, I think I know this one! Guernica by Pabblo Picasso, and some painting by Salidor Dali?
What do I win? ;D
A DVD of 'Pan's Labyrinth'.
EDIT: Drat! should have read to the last post (on new page). Bobarossa got there waaay before me.
There is also The Devil's Backbone by the same director. Another very good movie
which is set during the time of the Spanish Civil War. Both movies will stay with
you forever.
Quote from: PeaceFlower on October 10, 2013, 06:54:33 PM
There is also The Devil's Backbone by the same director. Another very good movie
which is set during the time of the Spanish Civil War. Both movies will stay with
you forever.
Pretty sure Pan's Labyrinth is also set during the Spanish Civil War, although that's obviously not the focus. ;)
Quote from: Bill101 on October 07, 2013, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Boggit on October 05, 2013, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: Bismarck on October 03, 2013, 01:27:06 PM
[Let me rephrase: I'd not seen a strategic/operational game featuring the SCW til now.]
True. I'm preparing for my review by reading Beevor's The Battle for Spain.
Don't forget he has written two books on it now. IIRC BfS was published in the mid '80's and his later book IIRC in the late '90's. I don't know how they compare together, but it might be worth checking the other through your local library - if it's not closed to the Federal shutdown?? ::) Good author though. :)
Hi Boggit!
I used to have his original book, called Spanish Civil War, published in 1982, and he revised and updated it considerably to have it republished as Battle for Spain in 2006. The more recent one is the better find, though I still think that Hugh Thomas's Spanish Civil War has a lot to offer.
Don't forget Ronald Fraser's Blood of Spain which is simply excellent as an addition to the coverage of the war, being based on interviews with several hundred Spanish participants.
Bill
Thanks for the info Bill. :)
The War is fascinating, given that so many different groups sided with one side or the other. It's hard to actually identify a common agenda from the early days, other than to beat the other side (less so on the Republican side between the Anti-Stalin Communists - the POUM - and the Stalinist PCE), but clearly by the end it had largely degenerated into a war of brutal totalitarian factions on either side (a bit like the war in Syria is going :(). Geroge Orwell (A Homage to Catalonia) concluded that all the idealism had gone by 1937, and there was very little to choose in practical terms between the two sides as regards the outcome for the people. Repression being the inevitable spoil of victory for whoever lost. Ironically, Franco started out as a Conservative, but changed towards an inclusive right wing autocracy by the end of the war (the Falange being a relative minority amongst the Nationalist factions, so some accommodation was a practical compromise). Conversely, the Stalinist PCE ended up dominating the Republicans by the end of the war, being equally extreme as an alternate government.
Whilst I'd say the Nationalist victory was pretty much a foregone conclusion, there were a lot of generals who had doubts as to the likely success of the coup at the outset. I wonder how the game deals with this in balancing a victory, since the cards were definitely stacked in favour of the Nationalists.
I found these documentaries quite insightful...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybAfqYhdhW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPl_Y3Qdb7Y
Quote from: Nefaro on October 10, 2013, 07:00:59 PM
Quote from: PeaceFlower on October 10, 2013, 06:54:33 PM
There is also The Devil's Backbone by the same director. Another very good movie
which is set during the time of the Spanish Civil War. Both movies will stay with
you forever.
Pretty sure Pan's Labyrinth is also set during the Spanish Civil War, although that's obviously not the focus. ;)
Pan's Labyrinth was supposed to be happening in 1944, IIRC.
Quote from: Boggit on October 10, 2013, 11:59:16 PM
Quote from: Bill101 on October 07, 2013, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Boggit on October 05, 2013, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: Bismarck on October 03, 2013, 01:27:06 PM
[Let me rephrase: I'd not seen a strategic/operational game featuring the SCW til now.]
True. I'm preparing for my review by reading Beevor's The Battle for Spain.
Don't forget he has written two books on it now. IIRC BfS was published in the mid '80's and his later book IIRC in the late '90's. I don't know how they compare together, but it might be worth checking the other through your local library - if it's not closed to the Federal shutdown?? ::) Good author though. :)
Hi Boggit!
I used to have his original book, called Spanish Civil War, published in 1982, and he revised and updated it considerably to have it republished as Battle for Spain in 2006. The more recent one is the better find, though I still think that Hugh Thomas's Spanish Civil War has a lot to offer.
Don't forget Ronald Fraser's Blood of Spain which is simply excellent as an addition to the coverage of the war, being based on interviews with several hundred Spanish participants.
Bill
Thanks for the info Bill. :)
The War is fascinating, given that so many different groups sided with one side or the other. It's hard to actually identify a common agenda from the early days, other than to beat the other side (less so on the Republican side between the Anti-Stalin Communists - the POUM - and the Stalinist PCE), but clearly by the end it had largely degenerated into a war of brutal totalitarian factions on either side (a bit like the war in Syria is going :(). Geroge Orwell (A Homage to Catalonia) concluded that all the idealism had gone by 1937, and there was very little to choose in practical terms between the two sides as regards the outcome for the people. Repression being the inevitable spoil of victory for whoever lost. Ironically, Franco started out as a Conservative, but changed towards an inclusive right wing autocracy by the end of the war (the Falange being a relative minority amongst the Nationalist factions, so some accommodation was a practical compromise). Conversely, the Stalinist PCE ended up dominating the Republicans by the end of the war, being equally extreme as an alternate government.
Whilst I'd say the Nationalist victory was pretty much a foregone conclusion, there were a lot of generals who had doubts as to the likely success of the coup at the outset. I wonder how the game deals with this in balancing a victory, since the cards were definitely stacked in favour of the Nationalists.
I found these documentaries quite insightful...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybAfqYhdhW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPl_Y3Qdb7Y
The game's take on the war is pretty blunt: most of Spain favored the Republic at least at first, but the Nationalists rolled in fast with a lot more firepower and cohesion and coordination. So that agrees with the standard basic narrative of the War: the Republicans were behind from the start and never really formed a solid force. In game terms this means if you want a crazy challenge take the Republicans and come up with a way to take the Nationalists down a few pegs early on without losing too much. then you have a chance to finish them off
In my first run, I did OK, but I could think of so many things I ought to have done early on that I quit my first run in Early 1937 with the following agenda:
1) Annihilate the Nationalist Navy
2) Carpet Bomb Seville into the Stone Age
3) Blow up every bit of rail line within three hexes of Seville
4) Cut off and Destroy all Nationalist forces North of Madrid
5) Let the Nationalists fool around in the center (from Ciuadad Real to Madrid) and hey, bring those Italians too.
6) Escort in all the convoys of material from the USSR and Mexico
7) Crush the Rebellion
Strangely enough, the AI seemed to sense that this time the Republicans were just plain going to absolutely kill them and all their Italian buddies and the Condor Legion and every last Panzer and the Deutschland too if it turned up looking funny (which did happen: SB-2s hit the Deutschland in 1937). So the AI pulled out of all of the exposed positions up north and rushed a force to Segovia -- which was promptly carpet bombed into the Middle Bronze Age by French bombers from the late Iron Age. So the AI avoided my first throw at agenda item 4, though perhaps at the expense of Item 1 if I get to Ferrol and add a third Cruiser to the Republican Fleet.
AND Item 1) does seem to be coming along: The Jaime I blasted the Espana down to 20% and other Nationalist shipping also has lost every naval engagment big time plus I still hold Huelva -- an airbase there will make things even worse for the Nationalist shipping.
Down South, the AI responded to the blasts around Seville by sending a big army deep to look threatening. Kind of a bad plan if I concentrate on trapping it, but it will save Seville for the moment.
So...lots of fun in Espana.
Quote from: MengJiao on October 11, 2013, 08:20:28 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on October 10, 2013, 07:00:59 PM
Quote from: PeaceFlower on October 10, 2013, 06:54:33 PM
There is also The Devil's Backbone by the same director. Another very good movie
which is set during the time of the Spanish Civil War. Both movies will stay with
you forever.
Pretty sure Pan's Labyrinth is also set during the Spanish Civil War, although that's obviously not the focus. ;)
Pan's Labyrinth was supposed to be happening in 1944, IIRC.
Sigh. I only know the answer to
general questions. What is truth? What is beauty? I don't know the answer to
particular questions, like when the Spanish Civil War did or did not happen!
Quote from: Boggit on October 10, 2013, 11:59:16 PM
Thanks for the info Bill. :)
Orwell (A Homage to Catalonia) concluded that all the idealism had gone by 1937, and there was very little to choose in practical terms between the two sides as regards the outcome for the people. Repression being the inevitable spoil of victory for whoever lost. Ironically, Franco started out as a Conservative, but changed towards an inclusive right wing autocracy by the end of the war (the Falange being a relative minority amongst the Nationalist factions, so some accommodation was a practical compromise). Conversely, the Stalinist PCE ended up dominating the Republicans by the end of the war, being equally extreme as an alternate government.
Hi Boggit
I think that the relative ease with which the Communists were removed from positions of political power within Republican Spain in March 1939 by the Casado coup, suggests to me that a Republican victory
might have led to a different political set up than the one Orwell was experiencing in the spring and summer of 1937 when the Communists were making their moves to reduce the power of their opponents.
The Communists ultimately lost that power very quickly, and there would most probably have been some kind of reckoning with them like this had the Republic won.
Of course, the big question is whether it might have resulted in a less totalitarian government? I'd say that it probably would have done. Orwell was rather disenchanted when he wrote
Homage to Catalonia, and so his views represent those feelings at the time, and I would think that he'd have cheered up had the Communists been ousted after a Republican victory!
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 02, 2013, 06:54:24 PM
Are there Germans in the OOB?
There are some very Germanic Units (Panzer Gruppe Drohe sounds pretty dramatically germanic and I've seen them prowling around on the road to Malaga). There are also Italian Units.
Luckily, I started with the Republicans because apparently the Republican AI "regional files" need some work. there are patches for that coming. However this doesn't have much impact on me since I've been the human Republican and the Nationalist AI has done well I think.
The Italians landed at Ferrol up north either because the Republicans have left only two port areas open for the Nationalists: Cadiz and Ferrol (and one other Port up north) or because things looked bad up north. The Nationalist Air cover (either Italian or German) was over Leon up north, which was wise I suppose, but in the end Leon fell to the massed rabble of the miners -- the worst large group of troops in the game -- so things indeed were bad up north for a while. It is possible to find troops with less base cohesion than the miners (35/75 IIRC), but you have to look pretty hard. There's a bunch who I assume are listening to Advanced Classical Music in shifts 24 hours a day (the Cultural y Something battalion from Somewhere Near France), but they are not allowed out of their home listening area due to their cohesion problems.
Quote from: MengJiao on October 14, 2013, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 02, 2013, 06:54:24 PM
Are there Germans in the OOB?
There are some very Germanic Units (Panzer Gruppe Drohe sounds pretty dramatically germanic and I've seen them prowling around on the road to Malaga). There are also Italian Units.
Luckily, I started with the Republicans because apparently the Republican AI "regional files" need some work. there are patches for that coming. However this doesn't have much impact on me since I've been the human Republican and the Nationalist AI has done well I think.
The Italians landed at Ferrol up north either because the Republicans have left only two port areas open for the Nationalists: Cadiz and Ferrol (and one other Port up north) or because things looked bad up north. The Nationalist Air cover (either Italian or German) was over Leon up north, which was wise I suppose, but in the end Leon fell to the massed rabble of the miners -- the worst large group of troops in the game -- so things indeed were bad up north for a while. It is possible to find troops with less base cohesion than the miners (35/75 IIRC), but you have to look pretty hard. There's a bunch who I assume are listening to Advanced Classical Music in shifts 24 hours a day (the Cultural y Something battalion from Somewhere Near France), but they are not allowed out of their home listening area due to their cohesion problems.
Notes and corrections on the above:
1) there are 4 Nationalist ports up North
2) the Italians also landed down south at Cadiz
3) when the mixted brigades enter the game, the miners all get the standard 75/75 cohesion
So, given that mixed bag...what happens in say, January 1937 with the Republicans trying to upgrade their stuff and the Panzers rolling in (the Russian tanks also start to arrive, but they are pretty far from the fronts -- ie in Valencia while the Panzers and Italians in Cadiz are within striking distance of everything from Malaga to Cordova)? One thing that happens is that an overly-aggressive Republican can wreck his own army in about a month. The Italians have plenty of good artillery: mobile 100mm batteries and 149mm guns too and the basic Nationalists also outgun the Republicans and throwing in some Panzers just makes it that much worse.
So I declared game2 a flat out defeat (we will never know how game1 would have gone) and restarted with the situation in dec 1936 of game2. So now I'm in game 2.1 trying to stay out of trouble until some guns and armor come up to the fronts.
I read a number of books on the Spanish Civil War. The best, reasonably short book which explained the multiple factions, international support and operations, and the course of the war was the book by Antony Beevor The Battle for Spain. It had a slightly different title in the previous edition.
Amazon link is: http://www.amazon.com/The-Battle-Spain-Spanish-1936-1939/dp/014303765X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382290962&sr=8-1&keywords=beevor+spanish+civil+war
This was the most depressing war I have ever read about. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody involved in this multi-sided war comes off well.
The factions were:
Communist: USSR: Various Western Anti-Fascist Independents: Supporters of the First Election: Anti-Catholic
Fascist: Italy: Germany: Catholic Church
France, Portugal & the UK (supporting in various means one side or the other).
The Anarchists (very important early in the war).
These different sides, and sub-factions within each "side" waged a pogrom of extermination of their perceived (or real) opponents both civilian and military. The executions by the Communist, Fascist an Anarchist sides were horrendous. The USSR, Italy & Germany (and a lesser extent France and the UK) tested out their war equipment. The USSR, Germany & Italy tested out their combat doctrines since they all had "volunteers" in the conflict.
In terms of the sheer insanity and lack of trust of your "allies" or "enemies" is George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia." He got shot through the neck and survived. But perhaps his narrowest escape was from being executed by the Communists even though he was fighting "on their side."
Quote from: airboy on October 20, 2013, 12:54:34 PM
I read a number of books on the Spanish Civil War. The best, reasonably short book which explained the multiple factions, international support and operations, and the course of the war was the book by Antony Beevor The Battle for Spain. It had a slightly different title in the previous edition.
Amazon link is: http://www.amazon.com/The-Battle-Spain-Spanish-1936-1939/dp/014303765X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382290962&sr=8-1&keywords=beevor+spanish+civil+war
This was the most depressing war I have ever read about. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody involved in this multi-sided war comes off well.
The factions were:
Communist: USSR: Various Western Anti-Fascist Independents: Supporters of the First Election: Anti-Catholic
Fascist: Italy: Germany: Catholic Church
France, Portugal & the UK (supporting in various means one side or the other).
The Anarchists (very important early in the war).
These different sides, and sub-factions within each "side" waged a pogrom of extermination of their perceived (or real) opponents both civilian and military. The executions by the Communist, Fascist an Anarchist sides were horrendous. The USSR, Italy & Germany (and a lesser extent France and the UK) tested out their war equipment. The USSR, Germany & Italy tested out their combat doctrines since they all had "volunteers" in the conflict.
In terms of the sheer insanity and lack of trust of your "allies" or "enemies" is George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia." He got shot through the neck and survived. But perhaps his narrowest escape was from being executed by the Communists even though he was fighting "on their side."
I got to February as the Republicans and then George Orwell shot me. I hope that is a bug. Anyway, things seem buggy and I'm going to wait for a few patches before I start a new campagin.
Quote from: Bismarck on October 03, 2013, 01:27:06 PM
[Let me rephrase: I'd not seen a strategic/operational game featuring the SCW til now.]
True. I'm preparing for my review by reading Beevor's The Battle for Spain.
Its a damn good book - I've read it twice so far.
Quote from: MengJiao on October 20, 2013, 02:46:56 PM
I got to February as the Republicans and then George Orwell shot me. I hope that is a bug.
??? Is that an in-game event? A euphemism for something?
Quote from: MengJiao on October 20, 2013, 02:46:56 PM
Anyway, things seem buggy and I'm going to wait for a few patches before I start a new campagin.
Oh really? You hadn't mentioned much specific in the way of bugs before -- what is it about the game that's currently wonky?
Quote from: Martok on October 21, 2013, 10:06:10 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on October 20, 2013, 02:46:56 PM
I got to February as the Republicans and then George Orwell shot me. I hope that is a bug.
??? Is that an in-game event? A euphemism for something?
Quote from: MengJiao on October 20, 2013, 02:46:56 PM
Anyway, things seem buggy and I'm going to wait for a few patches before I start a new campagin.
Oh really? You hadn't mentioned much specific in the way of bugs before -- what is it about the game that's currently wonky?
Sorry. Just a joke. the Orwell thing. In game, the Nationalist AI seems to have broken down. They are in various cities allowing themselves to be besieged. Maybe I have too many airplanes and tanks? They don't seem to be able to cope with things once the Republican convoys start coming in or maybe my submarines and ships are sinking too much of their incoming supplies? I can't tell. There seem to be other bugs that I haven't seen yet, but the consensus (and my feeling at this point) is that the AI needs some serious work and not just on the Republican side.
I've been reading the AGEOD website. The patches are rolling out. Maybe in a week or two things will be working. I think I know what went wrong with the Nationalists: their ability to produce stopped in Dec 1936. By late April 1937 they have had 16 turns or so without production and they are quite rightly hiding in their defensive works.
Quote from: Martok on October 21, 2013, 10:06:10 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on October 20, 2013, 02:46:56 PM
I got to February as the Republicans and then George Orwell shot me. I hope that is a bug.
??? Is that an in-game event? A euphemism for something?
Quote from: MengJiao on October 20, 2013, 02:46:56 PM
Anyway, things seem buggy and I'm going to wait for a few patches before I start a new campagin.
Oh really? You hadn't mentioned much specific in the way of bugs before -- what is it about the game that's currently wonky?
I got patch 1.01b (shows as 1.0b in the game). This supposedly fixes all the problems I have seen. I restarted in Sept 1936 (after I shot up the Nationalist Navy and blockaded Cadiz). The Nationalist AI seems to have regained its composure, though some of its counter-attacks seem to have been overly elaborate (armies hiding in the mountains, blowing up train tracks etc.) and the Italians have arrived and they can do some major damage. And the Russian tanks, armored cars and Airplanes have turned up. I've distributed the armor in penny-packets so as to get the armored bonus for entire forces in various spots.
Where did you get 1.01b? Thanks.
Quote from: Bismarck on October 22, 2013, 10:32:28 AM
Where did you get 1.01b? Thanks.
It's at:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?32841-España-1936-Public-Beta-Patch-1-01b-(16th-October-2013)
Many thanks!