OK, so I'm about 60 or 80 pages into Wedgwood's book on the 30 Years War and I came to the conclusion that I was getting completely lost.
This might be one of the most complex pieces of history I've come across in a while. And, as opposed to my normal pace of reading for recreation, I decided I was so lost that letting it go in one eye and out the other was missing most of the fun.
There was only one way I figured I could fix this: learn something.
So I've proceeded to again do something I don't normally do: go back and re-read the book to figure out what I've missed.
With so many moving parts, however, you can't just be content with re-reading and flipping back thirty pages to search for stuff.
So I have decided to start accumulating some cheat sheets of a kind. I can't claim these are particularly anything other than some pictures of the players and a cobbling together of the notes I've managed to distill from Wedgwood herself. (Difficult to believe she wrote this when she was 30, but I digress).
Anyway, I'm working my way through getting the players set up and I'm happy to share my notes with any of you who have been considering tackling the era and might find themselves equally bewildered by the numerous players, their roles, motives, religions, lands, and intrigues.
I'd like to say I'm about half done with maybe two hours of work into it, but more players keep popping up. I'm hoping by the end of the day I'll have enough of these sketched out enough that I can print these out for my own purposes. At that point I'm more than happy to post them here or email them to you for your own use.
Posting this now as it appears to be going well and if any of you is struggling like I am to let you know that I may have a modest help guide on the way.
I have been interested in the Thirty Years War for a while but haven't studied it at all due to intimidation of the things you describe above. Show me the money LB.
Have you looked at "The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy" by Peter Wilson ? (Although it is about twice as long as Wedgewood).
^I have had that in my Amazon shopping cart on and off. It interests and intimidates me just like the history.
The Thirty Years War - Complete [Kindle Edition]
Friedrich Schiller
I just picked this up as a free download off amazon.
Hot damn Bob! Just snagged that puppy for my collection.
Here's the direct link: http://www.amazon.com/The-Thirty-Years-War-ebook/dp/B0084A70JC
(LB, Not sure there's any point in grogifying a link to a free book but what the hel, give it a shot...)
Quote from: Staggerwing on September 06, 2013, 06:45:17 PM
Hot damn Bob! Just snagged that puppy for my collection.
Here's the direct link: http://www.amazon.com/The-Thirty-Years-War-ebook/dp/B0084A70JC
(LB, Not sure there's any point in grogifying a link to a free book but what the hel, give it a shot...)
Sure. I can read it next if I'm so enthralled.
Quote from: matt3916 on September 06, 2013, 02:06:19 PM
Have you looked at "The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy" by Peter Wilson ? (Although it is about twice as long as Wedgewood).
No. Thanks for the tip.
Quote from: Gusington on September 06, 2013, 01:19:59 PM
I have been interested in the Thirty Years War for a while but haven't studied it at all due to intimidation of the things you describe above. Show me the money LB.
OK, I had to tweak the forum to allow for the upload of a .docx file.
Keep in mind these aren't anything more than a summation of Wedgwood's own descriptions, distilled for my own purposes. I have added color images from the web where I could find them.
My plan is to print these, then scribble notes on them as I read further.
The upper end of attachments is currently set to six. I have more, but most of these are minor players, so I don't think you'll miss much at this point.
Why the obsession with this all of a sudden? You're kinda reminding me of Richard Dreyfuss in Close Encounters.
Well, Dreyfuss did get the director's carte blanche to stare at Terri Garr's cleavage during one scene in that movie.
Quote from: Gusington on September 06, 2013, 08:42:30 PM
Why the obsession with this all of a sudden? You're kinda reminding me of Richard Dreyfuss in Close Encounters.
I know this sounds crazy, but ever since yesterday on the road, I've been seeing this shape. Shaving cream, pillows... Dammit! I know this. I know what this is! This means something. This is important.
You've moved far beyond the extra helping of mashed potatoes I see.
Do you have half a sunburn?
I tried to google a pic of Terri showing her sunburn to Dreyfuss but I came up dry (heh...).
Someone with Mo' Fu needs to score the goods this time.
Quote from: Gusington on September 06, 2013, 09:04:38 PM
Do you have half a sunburn?
Yes.
But I'm not showing you where.
Quote from: matt3916 on September 06, 2013, 02:06:19 PM
Have you looked at "The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy" by Peter Wilson ? (Although it is about twice as long as Wedgewood).
This is the 30 Years War book I've been working through. Your description, LB, describes my experience with Wilson's book perfectly. I'm reading it, but I'm not really following what's going on and I'll realize that I've read 3 pages but have completely been zoned out and have no idea what I've just read.
I think I've sort of given up on it. I've got too many interesting books to read to waste time on a loser.
Quote from: Toonces on September 06, 2013, 11:32:40 PM
Quote from: matt3916 on September 06, 2013, 02:06:19 PM
Have you looked at "The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy" by Peter Wilson ? (Although it is about twice as long as Wedgewood).
This is the 30 Years War book I've been working through. Your description, LB, describes my experience with Wilson's book perfectly. I'm reading it, but I'm not really following what's going on and I'll realize that I've read 3 pages but have completely been zoned out and have no idea what I've just read.
I think I've sort of given up on it. I've got too many interesting books to read to waste time on a loser.
Wedgwood's book isn't dry, but I found that it is difficult to read for 20 pages, then a person pops up that I haven't had on my mind and I've needed to refresh myself. Seeing as there are at least half a dozen figures of importance, not to mention numerous others, I have created about a dozen of these sheets. Half seem to be highly important; the others less so, but I have them just in case.
The Amazon reviews indicate that Wilson's book is good, but dry. Wedgwood isn't dry, but the subject is still complex. Hence my move to create cheat sheets.
The only other book I have, or indeed have read on the subject, is very slim one from the Osprey 'Essential Histories' series.
It really gives you nothing more than a rough outline with a bit of detail on some of the significant battles. However, it was enough to get my interest up.
Dare I ask if there are any novels set during the Thirty Years War that you guys know about and are readable?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn-static.denofgeek.com%2Fsites%2Fdenofgeek%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Finsert_main_wide_image%2Fpublic%2Fclose-01.jpg&hash=4b4fd9c3ba6d4c132cefac84f1f4e8425f04a9c0)
Quote from: Gusington on September 07, 2013, 12:28:41 PM
Dare I ask if there are any novels set during the Thirty Years War that you guys know about and are readable?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn-static.denofgeek.com%2Fsites%2Fdenofgeek%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Finsert_main_wide_image%2Fpublic%2Fclose-01.jpg&hash=4b4fd9c3ba6d4c132cefac84f1f4e8425f04a9c0)
The only one I've read is Wedgwood's and aside from the complexity which I've tried to remedy with this notes, it's quite enjoyable.
Gus,
You can try this (for free) but I have not read it so I can't comment on its awesomeness.
I may give it a go once I clear out a few other books.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008473P6C/ref=oh_d__o02_details_o02__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
^Thanks. For such an important era in history it sure is under-written.
For a very understandable starter on the Thirty YEars War, try WP Guthrie's Battles of the Thirty Years War.
It is written by an academic who happened to be a wargamer, and he really is more down to earth and understandable than Wedgwood, or anyone else I've read.
TYW is a terribly complicated war, and getting a decent understanding takes some work. I found Guthrie much better at explaining the complexities. With his priming, it might make the thicker books, like Wedgewood, an easier read.
However, he used a vanity press, because no mainstream publisher would touch his book. So his books are very pricey. Get them by inter-library loand and make up your own mind.
Here is a tidbit from Google books. http://books.google.com/books?id=8UZo2UBMdKYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=battles+of+the+thirty+years+war&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8tIsUuiPMPij4APsm4DoCA&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=battles%20of%20the%20thirty%20years%20war&f=false
Finally, you can tell he is writing as a wargamer. Instead of starting with the political situation, and sides, he starts with the armies, the tactical methods, and the Battle of Breitenfeld. Having established this set of ground rules, and learning something of the times, then he goes into the politics. Personally, I found it much more understandable and clear.
Thanks Besilarius. It will take some more thinking and poking around for me to settle on a title.
Quote from: besilarius on September 08, 2013, 02:50:29 PM
For a very understandable starter on the Thirty YEars War, try WP Guthrie's Battles of the Thirty Years War.
It is written by an academic who happened to be a wargamer, and he really is more down to earth and understandable than Wedgwood, or anyone else I've read.
TYW is a terribly complicated war, and getting a decent understanding takes some work. I found Guthrie much better at explaining the complexities. With his priming, it might make the thicker books, like Wedgewood, an easier read.
However, he used a vanity press, because no mainstream publisher would touch his book. So his books are very pricey. Get them by inter-library loand and make up your own mind.
Here is a tidbit from Google books. http://books.google.com/books?id=8UZo2UBMdKYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=battles+of+the+thirty+years+war&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8tIsUuiPMPij4APsm4DoCA&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=battles%20of%20the%20thirty%20years%20war&f=false
Finally, you can tell he is writing as a wargamer. Instead of starting with the political situation, and sides, he starts with the armies, the tactical methods, and the Battle of Breitenfeld. Having established this set of ground rules, and learning something of the times, then he goes into the politics. Personally, I found it much more understandable and clear.
Holy cow. You're not kidding.
Kindle version is $95!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0313320284/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0313320284&linkCode=as2&tag=grogheads-20