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IRL (In Real Life) => Current Events => Topic started by: mirth on September 16, 2013, 09:10:56 AM

Title: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: mirth on September 16, 2013, 09:10:56 AM
Not many details yet. At least 5 people reported injured.

http://news.yahoo.com/shots-fired-at-washington-navy-yard--u-s--navy-confirms-130407614.html
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: OJsDad on September 16, 2013, 10:20:23 AM
Up to four dead and 10 wounded.

Multiple Shooters.  Reports are now that there is only one shooter and that they are dead. 
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: mirth on September 16, 2013, 11:34:55 AM
Reporting 6 dead now. One gunman killed. Possibly two more at large. Still a very confused situation.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 16, 2013, 11:44:26 AM
Word is they're still looking for two possible suspects.

What isn't clear is whether those two armed themselves and left or if they really are bad guys.

Time will provide clarity. Expect confused, contradictory reports for the rest of the day. By tomorrow we'll probably have a better idea as to what's up.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: steve58 on September 16, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
Now 12 confirmed dead  :(

Thoughts, prayers and condolences to the victims and their families.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 16, 2013, 01:21:41 PM
Quote from: steve58 on September 16, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
Now 12 confirmed dead  :(

Thoughts, prayers and condolences to the victims and their families.

Agreed. Terrible tragedy.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: CptHowdy on September 16, 2013, 03:14:35 PM
Hearing stolen id. Some poor MP is probably feeling pretty bad right now.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: steve58 on September 16, 2013, 03:16:51 PM
Shooter ID'd.  Death toll rises to 13 (according to DC Mayor Gray)

Quote
A gunman suspected in the killing of at least eleven people at a Navy building in Washington Monday morning has been identified as Aaron Alexis, 34, of Texas, Fox News has learned, and police were searching for a second possible suspect in the attack.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/16/active-shooter-at-washington-navy-yard/#ixzz2f5ZSU36a

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2422616/Aaron-Alexis-identified-DC-Navy-Yard-shooter.html
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 16, 2013, 03:37:51 PM
Still doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: Bison on September 16, 2013, 05:24:43 PM
Damned tragedy.  Unfortunately this will delve into a political scrum before any actual hard facts about what happened are ever made public.

God bless those who lost their lives and their families.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: OJsDad on September 16, 2013, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: Bison on September 16, 2013, 05:24:43 PM
Unfortunately this will delve into a political scrum before any actual hard facts about what happened are ever made public.

Too late, already has.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on September 16, 2013, 08:55:52 PM
Reuters is saying he was ex military, worked at a Thai restaurant, went to a Buddist temple.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/16/us-usa-navy-shooting-alexis-idUSBRE98F11O20130916 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/16/us-usa-navy-shooting-alexis-idUSBRE98F11O20130916)

So, not the usual demographic.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: Staggerwing on September 16, 2013, 09:18:46 PM
Naval reserve, if the reports are correct.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 16, 2013, 09:41:41 PM
Still no explanation that makes any kind of sense. Not that these incidents ever really make sense.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: CptHowdy on September 16, 2013, 09:43:17 PM
was working for a sub-contractor hired by HP to do IT work. was also arrested for discharging a weapon at some point. glad to see the contractors and government did a proper background check on this guy. also got to see the obligatory he was my neighbor and always said hello interviews on the local news  ::)
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 17, 2013, 07:58:24 AM
Now some info emerges.

QuoteNavy veteran Aaron Alexis, who killed 12 people at a Navy building in Washington Monday morning, had been suffering a host of serious mental issues, including paranoia and a sleep disorder, law enforcement officials told the Associated Press.

Alexis had been hearing voices in his head and had been treated since August by the Veterans Administration for his mental problems, the officials said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the criminal investigation in the case was continuing.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/17/active-shooter-at-washington-navy-yard/
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: Gusington on September 17, 2013, 07:59:49 AM
 I would like to meet whoever approved his background checks.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 17, 2013, 08:45:00 AM
Quote from: Gusington on September 17, 2013, 07:59:49 AM
I would like to meet whoever approved his background checks.

He was getting psychiatric care from the VA.

This is, top to bottom, a failure of government.

Meanwhile, the NSA listens to all, and knows nothing.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: airboy on September 17, 2013, 08:48:21 AM
Washington Post reported this morning that he got a shotgun through the security checkpoint.  Kills with shotgun used to acquire other weapons.
This account may also be changed as new facts come to light.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 17, 2013, 09:00:21 AM
anyone want to guess who's already beating the gun control drum?
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on September 17, 2013, 12:23:09 PM
Quote from: airboy on September 17, 2013, 08:48:21 AM
Washington Post reported this morning that he got a shotgun through the security checkpoint.  Kills with shotgun used to acquire other weapons.
This account may also be changed as new facts come to light.

So he followed Biden's adivce and got a shotgun?  And brought it to a gun free zone ensconced inside another, larger gun free zone?
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: steve58 on September 17, 2013, 01:11:49 PM
So only a shotgun and two handguns were used/recovered....no AR-15 (http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/ar-15-gun-debate/?hpt=hp_t1).  Kind of takes the wind out of Sen. Dianne Feinstein's sails...
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 17, 2013, 02:55:03 PM
He just acquired the shotgun in the last few weeks.

QuoteAlexis bought a shotgun from Sharpshooters Small Arms Range in the last few weeks, an attorney for the store said, according to CNN's Chris Lawrence.

The attorney, J. Michael Slocum, said Alexis had a valid driver's license, and the gun shop "did the full required background check, the same that's done when someone buys a weapon of any sort." Slocum indicated there was nothing in the background check to stop the sale to Alexis.

source: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/17/live-blog-the-navy-yard-shooting-why/
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: CptHowdy on September 17, 2013, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on September 17, 2013, 02:55:03 PM
He just acquired the shotgun in the last few weeks.

QuoteAlexis bought a shotgun from Sharpshooters Small Arms Range in the last few weeks, an attorney for the store said, according to CNN's Chris Lawrence.

The attorney, J. Michael Slocum, said Alexis had a valid driver's license, and the gun shop "did the full required background check, the same that's done when someone buys a weapon of any sort." Slocum indicated there was nothing in the background check to stop the sale to Alexis.

source: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/17/live-blog-the-navy-yard-shooting-why/

I know being a convicted felon precludes one from being able to purchase, what else stops a person from being denied?
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 17, 2013, 03:41:05 PM
Dunno. That'll vary by state. The fact that he was being treated for severe mental illness - several news articles have mentioned he heard voices - should have put up a red flag. Voices are typically psychosis. That's a disease where the subject doesn't know reality from fantasy. At that point pretty much anything can happen and they need real help.

I haven't seen he was diagnosed as psychotic, but given his behavior and the descriptions in the news, I won't be shocked if that news breaks.

He was getting mental care. Someone knew he had problems. Personally, that's where I'd like to get the next load of info. What they knew, what they did about it.

We see mental problems. Several encounters with law enforcement over firearms infractions. Still he obtained a security clearance.

Lots of red flags here. All of them missed.

All the NSA scans in the world can't substitute for a lack of using common sense.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: The Puss on September 17, 2013, 04:00:41 PM
Is it genuinely that easy to walk into a US Navy dockyard armed? Forget the gun ownership in the USA arguement. Are US military installations that open?
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 17, 2013, 04:07:45 PM
they're not supposed to be
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: GDS_Starfury on September 17, 2013, 04:49:21 PM
Common sense from the govenment....  your so cute when delusional LB.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: CptHowdy on September 17, 2013, 04:56:53 PM
Quote from: The Puss on September 17, 2013, 04:00:41 PM
Is it genuinely that easy to walk into a US Navy dockyard armed? Forget the gun ownership in the USA arguement. Are US military installations that open?

a vehicle has a sticker, you could steal a car with one and drive onto any base. If you knew about an event happening on a base such as a birthday party at the bowling alley you could drive up and BS the MP and most likely be waved through.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 17, 2013, 06:53:01 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on September 17, 2013, 04:49:21 PM
Common sense from the govenment....  your so cute when delusional LB.

I know. I'm thinking of getting help for that.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: Staggerwing on September 17, 2013, 07:01:55 PM
Get help for the cute. Keep the delusional. I find it often comes in handy in helping me get through my day.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: steve58 on September 17, 2013, 07:22:29 PM
Six week warning? (Http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/17/navy-yard-shooter-heard-voices-through-walls-thought-people-sending-vibrations/)

Quote
A Newport, Rhode Island police sergeant reported Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis to naval station police last month after the suspect told cops he was "hearing voices" through his hotel room wall and that three people were following him and sending vibrations into his body, according to a police report obtained by FoxNews.com.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 17, 2013, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: steve58 on September 17, 2013, 07:22:29 PM
Six week warning? (Http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/17/navy-yard-shooter-heard-voices-through-walls-thought-people-sending-vibrations/)

Quote
A Newport, Rhode Island police sergeant reported Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis to naval station police last month after the suspect told cops he was "hearing voices" through his hotel room wall and that three people were following him and sending vibrations into his body, according to a police report obtained by FoxNews.com.

I heard that. 

What a shame.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: Bison on September 17, 2013, 09:24:57 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on September 17, 2013, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: steve58 on September 17, 2013, 07:22:29 PM
Six week warning? (Http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/17/navy-yard-shooter-heard-voices-through-walls-thought-people-sending-vibrations/)

Quote
A Newport, Rhode Island police sergeant reported Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis to naval station police last month after the suspect told cops he was "hearing voices" through his hotel room wall and that three people were following him and sending vibrations into his body, according to a police report obtained by FoxNews.com.

I heard that. 

What a shame.

Unfortunately this sort of information is becoming the rule instead of the exception once the facts start to come out and surface above the partisan rhetoric.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 18, 2013, 05:34:22 AM
Quote from: CptHowdy on September 17, 2013, 04:56:53 PMa vehicle has a sticker, you could steal a car with one and drive onto any base. If you knew about an event happening on a base such as a birthday party at the bowling alley you could drive up and BS the MP and most likely be waved through.

On most of the bases I've been to in the last few years (Ft Bragg, Norfolk Navy Base, Ft McNair, Little Creek, Cp Lejeune, Ft Stewart, Ft Belvoir, Ft Monmouth) are looking for IDs even if you have stickers, and if you don't have both the ID and the stickers, you're going thru the vehicle search line.  If you don't have anything, you're going thru the vehicle search line, and they're opening and poking through the whole thing. 
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: CptHowdy on September 18, 2013, 07:00:37 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on September 18, 2013, 05:34:22 AM
Quote from: CptHowdy on September 17, 2013, 04:56:53 PMa vehicle has a sticker, you could steal a car with one and drive onto any base. If you knew about an event happening on a base such as a birthday party at the bowling alley you could drive up and BS the MP and most likely be waved through.

On most of the bases I've been to in the last few years (Ft Bragg, Norfolk Navy Base, Ft McNair, Little Creek, Cp Lejeune, Ft Stewart, Ft Belvoir, Ft Monmouth) are looking for IDs even if you have stickers, and if you don't have both the ID and the stickers, you're going thru the vehicle search line.  If you don't have anything, you're going thru the vehicle search line, and they're opening and poking through the whole thing.

Good to know. Been a few years since I visited a base.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 18, 2013, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: Bison on September 17, 2013, 09:24:57 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on September 17, 2013, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: steve58 on September 17, 2013, 07:22:29 PM
Six week warning? (Http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/17/navy-yard-shooter-heard-voices-through-walls-thought-people-sending-vibrations/)

Quote
A Newport, Rhode Island police sergeant reported Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis to naval station police last month after the suspect told cops he was "hearing voices" through his hotel room wall and that three people were following him and sending vibrations into his body, according to a police report obtained by FoxNews.com.

I heard that. 

What a shame.

Unfortunately this sort of information is becoming the rule instead of the exception once the facts start to come out and surface above the partisan rhetoric.

Now the big question: the RI cops sent notice to the Naval Air Station where he worked. What happened after that? You've got a guy with clear psychotic problems and likely paranoid schizophrenia. Either of those words would have told a movie audience that the spooky music was next.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: airboy on September 18, 2013, 10:09:39 AM
Facts are now out on this murder. 
See: http://www.realclearpolicy.com/blog/2013/09/17/the_navy_yard_shooting_and_gun_control.html

Shooter had a very common, pump action shotgun broken down into two large parts.  He walked through the security clearance.
He then shot people and took handguns.  Handguns used to kill more people.  Killer shot and killed.

Killer had severe mental issues, and a top secret security clearance.  Killer also had used a gun in anger to shoot out somebody's tires.
Killer heard voices in his head.

Liberal media had to retract that an AR-15 was used in the shooting.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: GDS_Starfury on September 18, 2013, 10:16:35 AM
 ::)

(https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1234001_10153226057980084_1357824234_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: Centurion40 on September 18, 2013, 10:41:39 AM
Quote from: airboy on September 18, 2013, 10:09:39 AM

Liberal media had to retract that an AR-15 was used in the shooting.

FYI, the conservative media had to retract that too.

Facts are facts.  Starfury got it right (above).
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: CptHowdy on September 18, 2013, 01:36:54 PM
Info was out there about this guy, plenty of red flags. People just didnt do their jobs. Government workers so unlikely they get fired. Good to see my tax dollars hard at work.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 18, 2013, 02:15:14 PM
Quote from: CptHowdy on September 18, 2013, 01:36:54 PMPeople just didnt do their jobs.

And that's the key. You don't put in new laws / processes / rules / exceptions / paperwork to engineer around the fack that someone fucked up.  You fire the idiot that fucked up and put someone more competent in place.
Otherwise, you've institutionalized the incompetence that's there to the point where that office is irrelevant and can/should be eliminated.

We saw this after 9-11.  No one was fired for not picking up on the intel leading up to 9-11.  Instead, we created a new DNI to cover up the fact that the CIA and FBI weren't allowed to share their info, and the heads of each of them were focused on the wrong things.  We create a DNI to look over the shoulders of the FBI / CIA, and b/c of that we've institutionalized the incompetence at that level.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: Gusington on September 18, 2013, 02:31:13 PM
Were there actual MPs at the entrance to the navy yard? Because at USMA the MPs have not been doing gate security since 9/11...they have all been deployed overseas. Private security has been runnng the checkpoints since then and their quality varies.
Title: Re: Shooting at Washington Navy Yard
Post by: LongBlade on September 18, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 18, 2013, 02:31:13 PM
Private security has been runnng the checkpoints since then and their quality varies.

I heard this alleged today on TV. Dunno if it's the case here or not.

Brant is correct: we have institutionalized incompetence. Instead of expecting better from people we just create more procedures in the hope that layers of bureaucracy will compensate for lack of intelligent life forms.