(This most irritating of days has reminded me to ask something I've been meaning to ask for ages)
Why have pirates been romanticised? I don't know much about their history, but it seems to me they were (are) just a bunch of thieves and murderers. So why has it become cool? You even get pirates in children's TV shows! Am I ignorant of something the whole of the rest of the world seems to know about?
You can thank Johnny Depp.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 19, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
You can thank Johnny Depp.
Heh. It was long before he minced along. :)
i thought we'd sorted this out!!!
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 19, 2013, 04:44:42 PM
i thought we'd sorted this out!!!
I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks matey. :)
Blame Disney and Key West fantasy fest.
oo arrrr
i thinks that farmers bob
and people from Ipswich ;)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 19, 2013, 04:56:59 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 19, 2013, 04:44:42 PM
i thought we'd sorted this out!!!
I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks matey. :)
just teasin' - you know how heartily i defended Francis Drake!
Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 19, 2013, 04:41:21 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 19, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
You can thank Johnny Depp.
Heh. It was long before he minced along. :)
I've read at least a dozen books on pirates and piracy. At least one of them addressed it.
There's no good answer. Probably for the same reason vikings and ninjas gladiators are romanticized.
Time diminishes the pain. 300 years ago pirates were scum an villainy. But...keep in mind that there were pirates and then there were privateers. There were also letters of marque which were state-sanctioned piracy against a specific nation.
Captain Morgan practically had a monopoly on every pirate in the Caribbean for a brief period of time. He managed to pull off one of the richest and most infamous assaults on the Spanish in history and was made governor for the trouble.
That he did so with dubious authority from the crown was secondary to his success.
Given that mixed pedigree, some role confusion over how glorious were the days of the golden age of piracy is understandable.
i think Robert Newton took a lot of the raping, pillaging, scum and villainy away and made pirates more cuddly, humourous and loveable rogues
Well, 1930s Hollywood probably did some serious rehab of them, too.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lrs65faOcl1qcnyloo1_500.jpg&hash=7d8e27eee52f59b3ae71c761d90c443280b7e2b5)
.
Quote from: eyebiter on September 20, 2013, 10:29:50 AM
Think it goes back further, the novel Treasure Island(1883) has been a popular source for movies and plays.
Agreed. I was thinking of that, but the author's name escaped me and I didn't have time to google.
...its about personal freedom, answering to nobody then the elected captain from the crew
(who can be overturned, if he turns out to be bad choice by the crew and left behind at an island , ...try to do this with the CEO and CFO of the big company you are unlucky to be one of their hundreds hire 'n fire or soon to be outsourced anyway cubical working ants)
as a pirat you live by the agreed upon rules given by the community to itself, pay no taxes, and in addition had the chance to gain a fortune ...or die trying.
compare that with being a poor simple sailor in that times on a miltitary ship or merchant vessel ...or even beeing a working bee today
IIRC the historic pirates also had an early kind of 'health insurance' or 'retirement plan' ... i once read that if someone lost a limb or an eye, that crewmember got some fixed sum payment in compensation for his loss .... a very 'modern' thinking in that century.
These are interesting thoughts, thanks guys. None of it changes my mind in that it isn't justified, but it was interesting to read. :)
the same happened to this Robin Hood thug. my local priest even told me once that time will turn Hitler into a saint.
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 19, 2013, 05:22:03 PM
i thinks that farmers bob
and people from Ipswich ;)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 19, 2013, 04:56:59 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 19, 2013, 04:44:42 PM
i thought we'd sorted this out!!!
I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks matey. :)
just teasin' - you know how heartily i defended Francis Drake!
Avast behind?
Pirates (along with western gunslingers, the highwayman, the prohibition gangster, etc) have been and will probably continue to be romanticised because they offer an intellectual and emotional escape from the existential limitations of the social contract that we tacitly agree to by being contributing members of a society.
In other words..society by necessity forces uniformity and therefore anonimty upon us. Get an education; get a job; get a family; follow the rules; etc. It is easy for the individual (and individuality) to get lost in all this. The lure of these counter-culture figures is that they almost always: 1) a break away from society and its rules 2) create or join of a new society or social group that has its own rules that are (mythically) based on honor, ritual, accomplishment, etc 3) become heroic by doing things that need to be done (righting wrongs, supporting the common man, etc) by living outside of laws or accepted social conventions, 4) evade justice, capture or the return to society through native wit or guile or unorthodoxy. On the small scale, these principles even apply to things to urban kids who "tag" traincars with spray paint: "I exist. I am prolific / artistic, therefore I matter".
Of course, the above examples are cultural extremes, as these groups operate outside the laws of society (irrespective as to whether those laws are good or bad). However, "identity through uniquness" is also applied to many select groups that live within bounds of society. World War I fighter pilots were regarded as a breed apart from their trench-bound comrades. The USMC and various elite forces use similar "same but different, or different and better" themes to build identity and esprit de corps. In fact, on the microcosm of a US aircraft carrier, EVERY single operational group believes they are the critical link of the mission (can't leave port if the engines don't run; can't sail across the ocean if people can't eat; can't fly planes if they don't have fuel; can't win a war if you don't have bombs; supply controls everything; etc).
Given this framework, I think we tend to overlook the reality of these subcultures and focus only on those aspects that speak to our own existential angst or dilema.
Think that the most well known edition of Treasure Island was illustrated by N.C. Wyeth. Wyeth was fascinated by pirates, and made the illustrations rather heroic, and certainly very clean.
May have helped give the reading public a slanted view.
Why have pirates been romanticised?
we've all missed the obvious answer.
wenches!
Quote from: MikeGER on September 20, 2013, 12:00:15 PM
...its about personal freedom, answering to nobody then the elected captain from the crew
(who can be overturned, if he turns out to be bad choice by the crew and left behind at an island , ...try to do this with the CEO and CFO of the big company you are unlucky to be one of their hundreds hire 'n fire or soon to be outsourced anyway cubical working ants)
as a pirat you live by the agreed upon rules given by the community to itself, pay no taxes, and in addition had the chance to gain a fortune ...or die trying.
compare that with being a poor simple sailor in that times on a miltitary ship or merchant vessel ...or even beeing a working bee today
IIRC the historic pirates also had an early kind of 'health insurance' or 'retirement plan' ... i once read that if someone lost a limb or an eye, that crewmember got some fixed sum payment in compensation for his loss .... a very 'modern' thinking in that century.
I love this answer. I believe one reason why the "anti-hero" is so big in fiction today (Breaking Bad, the Sopranos, Dexter, The Shield, Sons of Anarchy and so on) is because we yearn for that level of personal freedom and acutely feel its absence from our lives. In light of what has happened with the housing crisis, unemployment, the shrinking middle class, Big Brother everywhere, the NSA, TSA, Homeland Security, etc..... it's not difficult to relate to people who refuse to march along at their assigned position in the rat race.
But Star probably has it right. The bikers/pirates/gangsters get all the wenches. I'm over-thinking it ;D
Quote from: Jack Nastyface on September 20, 2013, 01:46:43 PM
Pirates (along with western gunslingers, the highwayman, the prohibition gangster, etc) have been and will probably continue to be romanticised because they offer an intellectual and emotional escape from the existential limitations of the social contract that we tacitly agree to by being contributing members of a society.
Tru dat.
where else are ya gonna find a discussion on the existentialist nature of piracy?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on September 20, 2013, 03:54:48 PM
where else are ya gonna find a discussion on the existentialist nature of piracy?
We do have it going on here, don't we?
And this from a man who's grandmother supposedly lost her innocence to Pretty Boy Floyd :o
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on September 20, 2013, 03:07:06 PM
Why have pirates been romanticised?
we've all missed the obvious answer.
wenches!
Jack Rackham would probably agree.
Who the hell doesn't want to fly the Jolly Roger and sail the high seas from time to time?
Jack, that was a great post, thank you. I'm sure you're right, even if it doesn't sit well with me. I'm all for fighting The Man, but I just don't think that's what pirates were all about - although I'm sure you're right about the reasons they're viewed as cool anyway.
Quote from: Bison on September 20, 2013, 06:17:46 PM
Who the hell doesn't want to fly the Jolly Roger and sail the high seas from time to time?
Yeah it does sound good...apart from all the murdering, and robbing people trying to make a living. :)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fjcdn.com%2Fpictures%2FWhere%2Bare%2Bthe%2Bwenches_207f7c_3936515.jpg&hash=c39826963a45b659a0a5883a9a676a06f906175f)
amd so there were:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweblogs.sun-sentinel.com%2Fentertainment%2Fthingstodo%2Fflorida-renaissance-festival-wenches-weekend.jpg&hash=2ef9602182fcb76f6340ca32f7f1d9d8f0ae6e98)
^Where do I sign up?
Quote from: bob48 on September 21, 2013, 10:21:57 AM
^Where do I sign up?
not too far away - that looks like Byker to me
lol - on a good day!
Its the only place i know where women carry portable vaginal recepticles (as seen in pic) because theyre..........
full! :-\
I'll take your word for it. Byker is not a place I frequent if I can avoid it.
that pics from a Florida renn fest.
^GROAN
and LOL at the same time...... ;D
I only just managed to choke off a tee-hee there........
Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 21, 2013, 07:41:48 AM
Quote from: Bison on September 20, 2013, 06:17:46 PM
Who the hell doesn't want to fly the Jolly Roger and sail the high seas from time to time?
Yeah it does sound good...apart from all the murdering, and robbing people trying to make a living. :)
Well I suppose that is rather subjective given the authorized national navy warfare occurring at the same time.
Bison - what game is your counter avatar from? It looks way cool.
edited - as you were, I just spotted the answer on another thread.
Quote from: bob48 on September 22, 2013, 05:56:23 AM
Bison - what game is your counter avatar from? It looks way cool.
edited - as you were, I just spotted the answer on another thread.
You welcome for the help. I think. Did I help you some how?
No one can help Bob.
^ :-*
Quote from: LongBlade on September 19, 2013, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 19, 2013, 04:41:21 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 19, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
You can thank Johnny Depp.
Heh. It was long before he minced along. :)
I've read at least a dozen books on pirates and piracy. At least one of them addressed it.
There's no good answer. Probably for the same reason vikings and ninjas gladiators are romanticized.
Time diminishes the pain. 300 years ago pirates were scum an villainy. But...keep in mind that there were pirates and then there were privateers. There were also letters of marque which were state-sanctioned piracy against a specific nation.
Captain Morgan practically had a monopoly on every pirate in the Caribbean for a brief period of time. He managed to pull off one of the richest and most infamous assaults on the Spanish in history and was made governor for the trouble.
That he did so with dubious authority from the crown was secondary to his success.
Given that mixed pedigree, some role confusion over how glorious were the days of the golden age of piracy is understandable.
hey hey hey
whats wrong with vikings ?
Quote from: jejo68 on September 22, 2013, 11:59:07 AM
whats wrong with vikings ?
They really need a new quarterback and their defensive backs are seriously struggling.
They need the cast from the show.
Never mind that. They need divine intervention.